View Full Version : Can't beat'em so I will join'em

08-02-2001, 08:01 PM
Well it is beyond scrub city now. Must be at least 100+ out cut'n in a poor county of 265,000 people. When you devide out the homes that can afford service by the mowers it is mighty slim. I have got only one new job this season. Mind you I have a twenty $ min. Folks almost laugh at my bids. One guy called me over while loading up at a job on friday and wanted a bid. I said lawns on his street were between 25-35.(I have two there).He said his neighbor was doing it for fifteen.:( Well on monday I went to the state tax agency with my sales tax payment and asked to talk to an investigator. I explained about the unfair compitition etc and offered to take him out every day for as long as he wanted to point out these moonlighters and scrubs. Well you know what the bozo said, "we don't have the manpower blah blah" and that there was nothing that he could do unless I had names and numbers. I said would you put me on your payroll. I told him to mark his calander for sept 30th because that is when I will fold and will be in to settle up then.
Note that I have removed my name and biz name from my profile and I will be joining the enemy and giving the shaft to all govt. agencies.
I am down 33% in income this season and refuse to lower prices.
Call me Mr. Scrub :cry:

lawrence stone
08-02-2001, 08:38 PM
Before you go underground call a few lawyers in town and ask if they will file an action against the state for you pro bono.

Some guys might just take it for the free publicity the action will generate.

08-03-2001, 07:39 PM
Gary Locke surcharge really bites the big 'un!!!
I know several guys who as solo cash cuts do around 60k in the Seattle area. I say screw 'em....have they fixed the roads and put in the mass transit system like we voted for? Screw 'em and the feds too!!!!:angry:

CSRA Landscaping
08-03-2001, 08:02 PM
Extremely bad idea. Ever heard of supplementing your income? If this is what you want to do, I suggest that you keep doing (or begin doing) quality work and keep your prices where you can live off of them. I'm finding that I don't pick up quite so many accounts around here because I charge what I need to live. Should it come to the point that I need to do something else for a while to give the biz time to pick up strength, I will do that sooner than I will operate illegally.

Give it some thought. Maybe you need to think about adding some services on. Maybe you need to put out some fliers or doorhangers. Maybe you should sell your biz, move, and set up elsewhere. Why not go into hardscapes? I would think the competition is a lot less there. Plus you should be able to make more in profit. Perhaps landscape construction, ret. walls, etc. Just a few thoughts.

Good luck and God bless you.

08-03-2001, 09:57 PM
I did a post awhile back about the shear volume of lawn care people in our town. Here in mid season there is no let up. No massive sellouts in the paper. 100s of very nice outfits out there far out weighing the scrubs. With all the lay offs its only going to get worse. There is just not many options for work out there for these people

08-04-2001, 03:45 PM
No jobs here either, hence scrubville. I am going in monday to settle my tax bill for july. Will even go so far as to cancel my phone and remove signs from my truck. This is war. Declared on the state and the scrubs. I will continue to pay fed taxes however. The state and the feds have no connection here. The clowns at the dept. of revenue (Wa. state) are lazy sob's and I spit their direction. If they ever try to card me I will deck 'em so hard it will keep him in his office forever. I am madddddd!!!!!!!!!!!
If not for my recently widowed mother I would leave this hell hole. I am stuck in a catch-22. As for getting into other services they are all saturated too. Probably 30 landscapers,20 tree guys,20 hardscapers, 40 spray services and 5 guys that just do waterscapes. In a population of 265,000 which 3/4 are dirt poor and 20% who just get by, arrrgh.!!! :angry:

CSRA Landscaping
08-04-2001, 03:55 PM
Hey bud, you're right. After all, any reason will do.

08-04-2001, 05:22 PM

This sounds like the "eskimo trying to sell ice cubes" proverb. :(

I hate to hear this has happened to you and I don't blame you for being angry. You pay your business taxes and fees and then are told by those who collect them that operators who don't need not worry about it as inforcement is futile...even though they are ruining your livelyhood and their tax base...and keeping the prices for all legit LCO's the same as it was 20 years ago in the process...:angry:

...and people wonder why incidents like Waco and Ruby Ridge happen????

All I can say is "Best of luck" to you in your war. From what I've seen this summer we all may be fighting it along with you soon.

Seems that every other vehicle has a lawnmower handle protruding from it.........and a hand-scrawled sign at every intersection proclaiming "Any Size Lawn Only $10!" :cry:

The common theory is that scrubs die off quicky. To bad that there are 3 more ready to replace him when it happens........

...keep fighting!!!:mad:

08-04-2001, 05:33 PM
I running into the same issues this year also. This year there are 4 new lawn care operators that live in my neighborhood. Three of the four are using Murry's and I know one of them is chargeing $15-20 per cut and accepting cash only, sucks! :angry:

CSRA Landscaping
08-04-2001, 05:46 PM
Why not take the same principles that you've learned and used into another field? It's not like it would be all that complicated, I'm sure that there are some well-established companies that would be more than willing to buy you out, so that should eliminate whatever debt you have for your business. So you're free there. You should have a little extra cash left over from the sale of your business to get started in something else. Pick something. You like to build things? Want to go into the computer hardware or software field? You could easily contract yourself out to others in that field without having to work for 'the man' and thus relinquish all freedom.

It doesn't matter what you do, the principles of success are universal.

If you don't enjoy what you do anymore, find something that you do enjoy. You'll be happier and you'll make more money, too, since you spend time doing what you like to do.

There's absolutely no virtue in worry and fear. Take the energy generated by that and transfer it to planning and acting on your future, esp. if your family is depending on you!

It may sound cliché, yet it still remains true that the trials that we face are actually opportunities to grow. If you fail to overcome a trial that comes your way, it will eat at you for the rest of your life. You have what it takes to make things work - legitimately!

I'll be one of the first to agree that the deck is stacked against the small businessman. Yet we're instructed to obey the powers that be. Failure to do so, when there is actually a choice, will result in nothing but hardship because it's nothing but a stubborn spirit. You dig your heels in, clench your fists, and go for broke! Just like an impertinent youngster. Where's the victory in that? You get to tell your son or daughter on down the line how to cheat the gov't?

The real victory in a situation like this is to make the best of a less than perfect situation. Sorry for the long post but it's important for me to try to encourage others to do what's right. I've been steered back on track before by folks doing the same thing.

08-04-2001, 07:50 PM
... the principles of success are universal

" you don't have to be nice to people on your way up the ladder if you don't plan on coming down"
Oliver Warbucks
Are these the principles you are referring to CSRA. LOL

I'm working on the stage crew for Annie this week and that quote just popped into my head after reading your last post. Also, I agree w/ you but sometimes people just have to do what they feel is right for them.

08-04-2001, 08:09 PM
Nice post, CSRA. :)

Along those lines of "doing other things":

I have found out that most of these 'lowballer' types are not equiped, or inclined, to perform other services...most here don't even have a blower. :confused:

I bought a Redmax hedge trimmer earlier this month and mentioned this to my customers. Picked up enough moolah from extra trimming jobs to cover the purchase (plus some) and some of their neighbors have called asking me to do their shrubs and hedges too although they mow their own lawns. Most people avoid the hedge and shrub work if they can.

Small potatos, I know, but at least it helps.

I suppose vigorously promoting aerating and dethatching will be next....whatever it takes to set my work apart from the rest.

Just applying a well known stock market investing approach...DIVERSIFICATON.

Gathering study material from the Dept. Of AG at present to study this winter to take the tests for pesticide/herbicide applications.

Like a stubborn child...I don't want to give up! :D

08-04-2001, 08:30 PM
My neighborhood scrubs are slowly killing themselves:D :D

CSRA Landscaping
08-04-2001, 09:22 PM
Hehe, 'fraid not, Ssouth. Never even heard that but I'm aware of the thought process. However there's another principle that outweighs that thought process, and that is the principle of sowing and reaping. ;)

This is a major problem and I'm convinced that it's a top killer of small business. How many of us don't ever feel like folding in? I would say that most of us do, at one point or another. I'm beginning to learn that the key to owning a successful business is in the management of that business. Changing your stripes and 'going underground' is a way to avoid that, yet it will catch you.

I'm stubborn too, but not impertinent, I trust, as I posted earlier. Let's try to keep sight of the real goal here, which is a respected business that provides a nice living, for most of us.

08-04-2001, 09:35 PM
Still, I'd rather have 60k in cash and drive on the same pot holed state roads! Buck 'em!
Also make sure not to eat any Chineese apples! I'm sure this has something to do with the economy in the east.

08-04-2001, 10:21 PM
Maybe your mom is as tired of that place as you are. Think about packing up both of you and settling in a better market area. Just a thought.

08-04-2001, 10:53 PM
It's no diffenrt here in Jersey !!! Anyone who can get a 21" in the back of their car can cut a lawn. It' s really frustrating when you pay a few grand in liability insurance and on top pay for license s in most of the towns you work in , ( you can't get the license without having insurance ) And all these little scum s get by and low ball you dont' pay ins. or have the license, but nobody but us seems to care.. And what about pesticide license's .. How many of those turkeys do you think have one .... NONE...

We can't beat them and if we join them we are only lowering ourselves to their level.. I think what we need to do is concentrate on the customers who care ! the ones who want someone who is equiped and knowledgeable and want someone to do more than cut their lawn.... We need to focus on educated clientel who realize the value of INSURED workers. If someone says well they willdo it for 15 when you need 25.. Tell them go ahead and dont' complain to me when they dont' have any insurance and can't pay to fix the 5K window in the front of your house from the rock the trimmer kicked up.. and so on..

The only thing we can do is show our professionalism and not lack of it.. Yeah thre will be less work , but it will be better and more profitalble work that will make up for it..

What about forcing states through the local associations to require STATE LICENSING for landscape contractors ?? I think this would be valualble to us pros and detrimental to the scum suckers.... yeah another cost for us , but it would trim the playing field some..

What do you guys think..

This is a sore subject for all of us.....

CSRA Landscaping
08-04-2001, 11:13 PM
I don't think the answer lies in more regulations. You saw what Twotoros typed in the beginning of this thread - "we don't have the manpower." So the rules are already in place. The key is enforcing those rules. Perhaps if the penalty for breaking the rules were advertised as much as speeding, seatbelt violations, and littering are, there would be less 'cut-throat' activity but I doubt it. If the state thinks they can make enough money by cracking down on the unlicensed masses, they will add the manpower!

Since they don't - we focus on building a reputation for our businesses based on quality.

The economy here in the east is just as competitive as you folks have it, powerreel. More so, I would think ... lots more folks here with pickups to haul the mowers in! :D

08-04-2001, 11:13 PM
The customer gets what they pay for!

My area is LOADED with scrubs...I DON"T CARE! I know what type of work I do and so do my customers. In the end..the scrub customer may not be the type of client you are looking for anyway.

lawrence stone
08-05-2001, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by CSRA Landscaping
I don't think the answer lies in more regulations. You saw what Twotoros typed in the beginning of this thread - "we don't have the manpower." So the rules are already in place. The key is enforcing those rules.

Gary you need to get the other taxpaying operators in your area and march down to the state capitol and demand a meeting with the governor.

Contact your state rep. and senator first. They will find the manpower very quickly and put a fire under that loser at the dept of revenue you spoke about.

lee b
08-05-2001, 01:53 PM
My area is rural, only about 30,000 people in the whole county. There are approximately 35 LCO's that I've seen operating in a town of 20,000. Now that is saturation, but you know what? I'm turning down new business, I have all I can handle. A reputation for quality, reliable work will bring you quality, reliable customers. I don't lowball and I don't stick my nose in other peoples business. I don't care if other LCO's are legit or not, that's none of my business, taking care of my customers is.

08-05-2001, 02:20 PM
If you can't beat them by being a professional and setting the example for these SCRUBS, maybe you should be working for them. :)

Do the right thing, if your "stuff" is straight and you can relate to your customers and charge enough to cover your expenses and make a profit, there is no way that paying taxes and license fee's will put you out of business or force you to operate illegaly.

There are enough of us non-profit consultants here that can probobly help you figure out a solution, so use your resources!

We all have e-mail addy's listed and would be glad to help.

08-05-2001, 06:46 PM
I think that Stone hit the nail on the head with contacting other people in the government. If this is a war, escalate. Don't let some pencil necked, low level pinheaded beauraucrat give you some lame excuse like 'We have no manpower'. Use the system that you pay to support against the little buggers. Start crawling up the chain of command. If the supervisor of the afore mentioned pencil pusher doesn't give you a satisfactory answer, step on his head and carry on upwards. Document everything with letters, names, dates, etc. You will eventually find someone who is willing to help you. If not, pack up your shop and run for whatever level of government deals with this problem and solve it from the other side.
In the meantime, continue to be a professional, provide excellent service and carry on!


08-05-2001, 07:32 PM
Hey TwoToros! You and me are in the same boat. Cheap people. At least here in Chelan we have Seattle people moving in all the time but the rest of the population couldn't afford lawncare if it was a life requirement. Lowballers are EVERYWHERE. My cousin now mows lawns. Lowballs my prices by HALF. Too bad for him that his service is terrible, he mows my grandparents lawn and has missed the day my grandpa wants it cut for 2 weeks, meaning I've had to mow it twice. He'll never learn... My business hasn't been any better. I had 8 last year, I've got 4 this year. 1 of them was from last year and 2 others were friends I knew that needed the lawn mowed. I got 1 repsonse from advertising across town. Competition is cut throat and CHEAP. My dad told me on a couple of jobs that I have that I was too expensive, I told him I hate lowballers and I would love for them to go to h*ll. I'd try to either lowball like them, or just get out. I know that the choices aren't good but how much choice do you have? I don't know, I've been pondering the idea of either getting out or doing something else that is somewhat related. I'm trying to get more into landscaping and hardscaping, but it's coming slowly. I've done one job so far this year, and I have one lined up for this fall :)
Powerreel-The apple industry is screwed over. Dole just made huge job cuts at one of their plants, and other plants have closed up shop. Not a fun thing to be in right now. It'll never be the same. We have 7 acres of orchard, just enough to stay in it. We USED to have orchard of both sides of my house. Both were recently pulled up. Looks like Sh*t. Dead grass and one of them has trees everywhere. Not very fun. Should have gotten out of here years ago. It was great when we were selling Fugi apples for $900 a bin. Too bad that was the first year they had fruit on them and only picked about 10 bins. We pull 60-70 out of there now...DO NOT, I REPEAT, DO NOT EAT ANY IMPORTED APPLES OR FRUIT FOR THAT MATTER! I will thank you for doing so when the prices go back up. Later guys.

08-05-2001, 10:10 PM
Scag48, you are too much!!! lol!

LJ lawn
08-05-2001, 11:17 PM
i seems that the only reason the gov't agencies don't have enough manpower is that there isn't enough money $$$$ in it.you don't see them complaining over the funding they get for the so-called war on drugs (more gov't propaganda)strange isn't it?you figure these people who usually harass honest hard working citizens over stupid zoning laws and other mundane things would be salivating and chomping at the bit to nail the non legit guys.bottom line is the dollar.

CSRA Landscaping
08-06-2001, 01:33 AM
Twotoros, what happened here? I think you guys should still do this. If they're doing it out of ignorance, they'll likely get a soft lesson.
Originally posted by Twotoros
Let me relay a story of a guy in my town that went gang busters stating out with a #1 set-up from trucks&trailer down to blowers and yellow page ads . Three years later the IRS got him and he hadn't been paying any taxes. He even charged a fairly high price.
Next season a lot of us here are going to organize and that is one of our goals - turn in the "undertables" .
Don't take chances.

08-06-2001, 04:07 AM
Oh No, It's Getting Complicated Again!:rolleyes:

08-06-2001, 11:32 AM
Two Toros:

I feel your frustration and felt it 20 years ago as well. Your in Spokane right ?? Similar to Bend somewhat in demographics, but about 4 times the population... Here are a few suggestions...

Search out high end residential accounts in the resort areas. Chnge the focus of your business away from mowing and the things everyone else is doing. My business does no mowing at all. We offer specialty services:

Irrigation and Sprinkler System Repair and Maintenance.
Fertilizer Service
Spray Service for Estate and Larger Accounts. ( use ATV and sprayers)
Organic Fertilizer Service
Turf Aeration and Renovation (overseeding)
Water Feature and Pond Maintenance.
Integrated Pest Management Services
Digital Imaging Landscape Design Services
Pasture Management (fertilizer, spray, aerations)

I still supplement this business by providing training services for the COMPASS system. The specialty services requires a higher level of skill and experience than the mow and go thing, but your returns are MUCH higher per man hour invested.

I want to echo Scag48s comments about imported fruits. The American agriculture economy is being decimated by imported fruits and other agricultural commodities. The day we eat imported foods, is the day our economy is going straight down the tubes,

Good Luck.

08-06-2001, 03:40 PM
CSRA - What happened here was a guy who started off legit but failed to pay his taxes. If he would have stayed unlicensed he may very well be in business now. - Couldn't get the guys to orginize an assoc.

I no longer can compete in this town. I will at least finish this season as it is almost over. (irrigation water will probably go off a month early because of drought.)
I may just look for the first job I can get that has insurance and moonlight my lawns like all the other scrubs. Wages here are low so moonlighting is becoming the norm here.
I hope the rest of the U.S. doesn't get this bad but sounds like it is headed that way.

I think the lesson here for the new guys is to go full service from the start. That is where I screwed up and it is to late now. If I was to move that is what I would do. Now it is time for a break and then maybe a fresh start in a few years.I am dead.

CSRA Landscaping
08-06-2001, 03:53 PM
A break may be just what the Dr. ordered here. Why not try this;
Let your existing customers know that you're now offerring flim-flams for a bang-boozle, or whatever you decide to do. Maybe carpentry, gazebos, etc. Do l/s designwork. And do like you said, have a job to help out in the beginning phase of whatever you choose to do so that you're not scraping by on peanuts. Because whatever you do now, it will be from the beginning, in order to make it work right. Whatever course of action you decide on, be sure and let us know what's going on and how you're doing.

08-08-2001, 05:13 PM
Lost another account today. 3k lawn I was charging twenty bucks. I called and asked why she was quitting and she said she found someone cheaper. I politely asked what price I would have to charge to keep her business. Ten dollars she said as the new lco was charging her eleven and would pay the sales tax himself. I said great deal and good luck.:cry:

08-08-2001, 06:12 PM
$10...Holy crap... that is pretty sad!!!

That's worse than it was in Florida. You need to move or drive to a better (up scale) location if that's possible.

Good luck to you!!!!!

08-08-2001, 07:16 PM
WA State government are a bunch of slackers and will not hunt down scrubs who don't pay them. As much as you want to do the right thing collecting 8.6% here in Seattle (RTA) for gardening is wrong. In the East on the other side of the Cascades you guys don't see beans of your sales tax it all goes to Puget Sound region. If I lived there I would go guerrilla and just take cash, you are not big enough to get snagged in their ambush. If you think sales tax is crushing try Seattle property taxes! Whenever I get a parking ticket I often think of undermining government vechicles so they learn to leave the working man alone! It's competitive in Seattle with Asians by the truckfull mowing for rice and not paying taxes. Oh yea I took some photos of pirate sprayers and sent them to Dept.Of Ag. and I haven't seen any compliance teams in the area, in fact I still see the asians who I dialed in spraying! What do we pay for? If I treated my customers their way, bill and perform no service I would loose all my clients, just think of it as stopping service with Gary Locke and tell him to find it somewhere else. POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!!!

08-08-2001, 08:02 PM
Ya it sux here but the news says the manufacturing sector is down and it may spread to other areas of the economy. My advice is to hold on tight to your lawns and if your survival is a stake ace the govt out of their share . If things get worse I will shaft the feds next.

signed - bitter taste in my mouth-:mad: :cry: :mad:

Albemarle Lawn
08-08-2001, 08:31 PM
There are so many new upstarts they can't possibly all, if any, be claiming their income.

They eventually get screwed by not having any social security, and can't get loans from a bank, but...

What have you guys seen the IRS do? Do they take their equipment, house, put them in jail, or just try to get money out of them?

Is there a real consequence?


08-08-2001, 09:23 PM
The IRS are pitbulls trained to kill. They would put their own mothers out on the street. I have a freind who joined a tax protest group in the early eighties and went tax exemt for a month. They went after him and the other guys with penalties and interest for more than a decade. Less than 5k cost him over 25k not counting lawyers.He worked under the table for years as they had a lien on any bank account he opened and he feared for his life. He just got his first job in almost twenty years that is on the up and up. To this day he won't put more in the bank than it takes to pay his mortgage and utilities.:angel:

08-09-2001, 10:10 AM
Our country was founded by people who were unfairly taxed by a government. It is our duty to rebel against unfair taxes and this is one of them. We in Wa are some of THE most heavily taxed people in the States, it's wrong! We pay and pay and hope that we don't get stuck in a famous Seattle pot hole that hasn't been filled for years. Plus we have the 2nd worst traffic in the nation behind L.A. I wouldn't mind paying if they gave something back, we're not seein' it. If we're not seein' anything for our $$$ then why pay? If you need any links on building your own landmines from the hardware store I'll share some links you! ;)

CSRA Landscaping
08-09-2001, 01:40 PM

08-09-2001, 07:33 PM
I would pay you $20.00 to push two 21 " mowers to mow my yard. You must be an idiot.

08-09-2001, 08:11 PM
There was a study that just come out. Shows Maine as the highest taxed state in the nation per capita. Coincidently, it seems about half the male population is working under the table in the Logging or Fishing industries. The rest are taxed to make up for them. Many women are working under the table cleaning houses etc. We also have one of the worst road systems anywhere.

08-10-2001, 01:39 AM
If somebody wants their yard cut for 15 bucks, fine, let them hire the neighborhood kid. If they want somebody to show up every week, somebody with insurance, and somebody that actually has their reputation on the line, let them hire you. There are people that will pay good money to have a nice yard and those are the people you should go after. Screw the person that wants their yard cut twice a month and doesn't care what it looks like. Find quality accounts and do quality work.

08-10-2001, 01:42 AM
Yeah....what lars said!

Lawn DOG
08-10-2001, 09:06 PM
Let me tell you what I did. I started saving all of the scrub flyers and cheap business cards that I could find and every couple of months I would go to the courthouse and start having each one checked. I did make a difference in my area. I will not hesitate to do what I can to help my industry. If I see them applicating I call the pesticide investigator and turn them in. I bet your not the only legite outfit in your area that is fed-up. Before becoming part of the problem, do what you can to stop the scrubs.

Good Luck

bubble boy
08-10-2001, 09:51 PM
lawn dog, thats awesome:D

lee b
08-10-2001, 11:02 PM
Yep, that's how the COMMUNISTS did it, get family, neighbors, or somebody with a grudge to turn in people who didn't comply with the rules. No trial, no jury, no questions, just send 'em off to the concentration camp or if they were really naughty, a pistol shot behind the ear. Maybe we should just start shooting these evil scrubs, that ought to help our industry alot.

bubble boy
08-10-2001, 11:35 PM
yah, those by law officers can deliver a good ass kicking, they use red army training methods:rolleyes:

im sure if the scrub operations who were reported were obeying laws they were free to continue business.

if they werent obeying the law thats their problem. screw em.

lee b
08-10-2001, 11:52 PM
So we can assume that you are absolutely legit and know all the laws and regulations, you've reported every penny earned, and have never ever broken a single law. A long time ago, in a far away land, a young carpenter said " let he who is without sin cast the first stone". Are you worthy to cast that first stone? The key to improving this industry is educating your competition to bring them up to a professional level, not stabbing them in the back by squealing on them.

08-11-2001, 02:16 AM
Turning them in is the best thing to do.When I started 10 yrs ago, someone turned me in. when the inspector asked me for my license, I said my what. I didn't know any better. But it didn't bother me because I wanted to be legit, I took care of it right away, no hard feelings. Now if I did not want to be legit like many of these guys who don't pay taxes period, and are dumb enough to brag about it, & are mowing 20- 60 plus lawns, or so they say. Then let the chips fall where they may. I pay taxes, they should too. The next time they try to lowball one of my customers they will pay for it.

08-11-2001, 08:14 AM
Around here, when the tax folk nab a scrub, they give em 10 days to get the proper tax certs, permits etc. If they are caught again after the first shot across the bow, then look out.

Sounds fair to me.

Island Lawn
08-11-2001, 10:42 AM
Read what Guido said.

Might be the best thing you can do for somebody when you see them doin' wrong...

Friends don't let friends drive drunk...
OR be scrubs!!
Take the keys and turn 'em onto Lawnsite!
It has helped more than one scrub!

It's your nieghborhood (Mkt)!
What would you do if you saw an anynomous drunk speeding down the nieghborhood sidewalks?

Same w/ da anynomous scrub!

TURN HIM IN! He might kill somebody!

They might not go to the concentration camps...right away!

"Whew! Sure is hot in an oven"
- Bob, the blob

08-11-2001, 01:15 PM
Originally posted by lee blount
Yep, that's how the COMMUNISTS did it, get family, neighbors, or somebody with a grudge to turn in people who didn't comply with the rules. No trial, no jury, no questions, just send 'em off to the concentration camp or if they were really naughty, a pistol shot behind the ear. Maybe we should just start shooting these evil scrubs, that ought to help our industry alot.

Sounds like an idea to me! WHO SAID NO TRIAL, NO JURY, NO QUESTIONS (BESIDES YOU)?????? Obviously they won't get in trouble if they are legit. And another thing, leave Jesus out of this, I'm sure Joseph paid taxes on any carpentry work his business or his employees did! I don't like people who use the Lord as an excuse to be an idiot or to break rules!!

bubble boy
08-11-2001, 01:57 PM
couldnt have said it better myself.:)

lawrence stone
08-11-2001, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by lee blount
A long time ago, in a far away land, a young carpenter said " let he who is without sin cast the first stone".

Dam I must be dyslexic.

I have been living by the phrase:

Let he who is Stone cast the first sin.

Does this mean I am going to hell?

Lawn DOG
08-11-2001, 03:55 PM

Let see if I get this right. I turn my cheek and look the other way and this will take care of it. Why don't I just bury my head in the sand while i'm at it.
Get for real.

lee b
08-11-2001, 09:49 PM
I don't believe that I was using the Lord to cover for anybody for being an idiot. But I'm sorry that I didn't put my thoughts in simple enough terms for some of you to understand. Let me rephrase this. At some point in everyone's life, including business ventures, most everybody, either through ignorance or on purpose, has made mistakes. If you have sprayed a little round-up without a pesticide liscense or didn't report a couple of dollars some old lady gave you as a tip or operated 1 day after your business liscense has expired for the year - then your as guilty as anyother so-called scrub. I'm not gonna report you, because it's none of MY business. Why not politely inform your competition of the rules and regulations, before you squeal on them. Wouldn't that take more gonads than ratting on them. There is a terrible difference between someone driving drunk, and possibly injuring or killing somebody and someone mowing grass without a license or whatever it is that makes you consider them a "scrub". That is a childish example, I've heard that before and wish somebody could at least think up a better, more realistic comparison. Lawrence Stone, your rapier wit always makes for a good laugh.

bubble boy
08-11-2001, 10:20 PM
hey, everyone should be willing to face consequences for their actions. any corners that ive cut, i accept responsibility for whatever happens. rest assured, if i am caught and fined, or taxed, or charged,i will accept that and not make that mistake again. im man enough to face the music.

by the way thanks for making it simple so i could understand. without colorful pictures sometimes the words make no sense to me.:rolleyes:

08-11-2001, 11:02 PM

I don't think we are talking about people receiving a tip or spraying a little round up from time to time here...

In my humble opinion there's a difference between: the blatant day in and day out non-income reporting operator and the operator who every now and again pockets $25. Which one do you think is hurting the business more?

Lawn DOG
08-11-2001, 11:26 PM
Once again you have shown your veiw point to be that You would rather complain than doing something about it. You suggest that we should hold the hands of the ignorant and guide them. I am glad that you are the minority. I get the feeling that you are one of the people that we are talking about. If you are a legit business you will not care if someone checks you out. Haven't you ever had any of your customers check you out with the Better Business Bureau? With your analogy this would be some sort of evil plot to exercise you from society. It's really not that complex. Either you are or you are not legal to do business. If you are part of the problem you will not last in my neighborhood.

lee b
08-12-2001, 12:42 AM
Lawndog, all but one of my accounts are large corporations, I have to be legit and yes, I have been checked out by potential clients before. One of the reasons my business is doing good is because I'm legit and can provide proof when I bid on large scale commercial properties, alot of LCO's I know can't. I have never been paid for grounds maintenance except by check, never had the chance to pocket any cash {don't care if you do though}. There's just something wrong, in my opinion, about turning folks in to the government for something thats really not hurting you. I happen to think most of the regulations and especially the taxes we are forced to endure are bogus crap anyway. If you are legit, why not use that to your advantage and pursue the accounts that so-called scrubs cannot get? It's been a definite advantage for me. Use your head and beat 'em at their own game, without being a tattle-tale.

Lawn DOG
08-12-2001, 01:04 AM
I see your point and am glad to hear that you are legit as so am I. We are just going to have to agree to disagree on how to handle this subject.

08-12-2001, 01:16 AM
I bid on large scale commercial properties, alot of LCO's I know can't. If you are legit, why not use that to your advantage and pursue the accounts that so-called scrubs cannot get?

Why should we be limitted to large scale commercial properties to make a decent wage? I for one (at this time) would rather not deal with some of the headaches involved at the larger scale...

There's just something wrong, in my opinion, about turning folks in to the government for something thats really not hurting you.

C'mon... Are you kidding or ignorant? If you are going out and giving estimates on properties that may be worth $20, $45 or $65 and the response from the potential client is: but he is/was doing it for $10, $30 and $50... it hurts!

bubble boy
08-12-2001, 01:23 AM
lee, even though you think taxes and regulations are bogus, you still pay and follow them. i just think the next guy should too.

but you have a good point, i gotta get more commercial to weed out the pretender competition.

08-12-2001, 02:22 AM
Be prepared Bubble Boy for all the headaches with commercial.

I run about 50% commercial and 50% residential. I get paid on time by all my residential properties, but the commercial pays 30 to 60 days late. They also have very little loyalty, if you gear up to do a big commercial job, make sure it's a long contract, or it might be put up for bid the next yr too. I'm sick of commercial properties, to many bosses, always changing management. Residential is soo much better in my opinion. At least it is where I live. I have seen some commercial properties hiring and paying cash to these scrubs, just to save money. These are $35 - $50 lawns, granted there not the big companies but still it stinks.