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creekside
08-03-2001, 11:22 PM
I am looking at a 2000 model ZTR that is brand new and has a Kohler Command CH25 on it. With it being a 2000 model I would think that it could have been built as early as mid to late 1999.

How can I determine if this is the same engine that has problems? Is there a defintive time frame in which they were manufactured? Is it all Kohler 25HPs made until they started using the Command PRO name?

Would appreciate any information you have to share!
Tim

Eric ELM
08-03-2001, 11:48 PM
Some had problems with them and some didn't. I talked to someone that went to the Kohler booth and he was told when Kohler had lots of problems, they paid for about 400 head gaskets a week, but now they are averaging one a week. It sounds like now they have it fixed.

The 2000 could of been built in 99 also. Most mower Mfg start building the next year models in June or July. One good thing about this is, they do give you a 2 year warranty and the head gaskets usually let go before 100 hours. The replacement usually holds, but not always.

Back when this model your looking at was built, this engine had more problems than now, but it could end up being a good engine too.

I hope this helps. :)

creekside
08-04-2001, 12:10 AM
Yes, your feedback sure does help. Every bit of information is helpful to me.
Thanks Eric !

Richard Martin
08-04-2001, 10:34 AM
The Command Pro is the same engine as the Command except for:

larger-capacity oil and fuel filters
high-performance spark plugs
large-capacity dual-element air cleaner for extended maintenance intervals

jannan
08-04-2001, 09:14 PM
Before buying a used Lazer with the 25 hp Kolher, I emailed Exmark and requested the serial # range of the problem engines. They were very helpful, the serial # on it was not one of the problem ones, I bought the mower and have had no engine problems so far.

John DiMartino
08-05-2001, 08:39 AM
Dont always believe the serial# will tell you if you will have trouble.My 25 is the updated one,the one with the newest head gaskets,and all,my dealer assured me it was alll fixed for the 2000 model year,built in late 99.I blew the head gaskets at 66 hrs,it burns oil,low power,and the lifters tick something aweful intermittently.Kohler fixed the head gaskets,but the other things are normal,if you buy a 25-buy it knowing,it might tick a lot,and there is nothing you can do about it,if you cant live with it -dont buy it,same for the oil comsumption,It bothers me that I have to add oil at 25 hrs,when my other equipment has 1000's of hours and dont use any.It also bothers me that I paid for a 25hp engine,and could've saved 300 bucks,and got a better,more powerful,efficient,and quieter engine just by downgrading to the 23 Kawasaki.When my kohler blows,or I find some fool to buy it,I will repower with Honda,or kawasaki.

williamslawn
08-08-2001, 08:43 PM
We had to replace the head gasket on one of our mowers with the Kohler 25 hp. Now the rocker arm has come loose twice. Has anyone else had this problem after having the repairs done? If so how did they correct the problem? We have checked the arm and the push rod and no problem found.

chipk1
02-23-2007, 06:00 PM
My 2004 Kohler 25 Blew head gasket and reed valve at 80 hours. Dealer warrantied and said it was a common defect they milled the heads and replaced reed and gaskets. Told me I shouldn't have anymore problems. Will at 500 hours today Poof. Smoking again. Another blown head gasket and 4 month out of warranty! Dealer said kohler refuses to admit the head gasket problems with 25hp's but that he gets many blow right side gaskets in. He said kohler will give you a gasket kit and new bolts but will not cover labor. Beware of the Kohler 25hp engines. They are JUNK!

khouse
02-23-2007, 08:46 PM
I had a Command 25 and the lifters ticked like crazy. Kohler told me that it was normal. I said with only 50 hours on it - it is not normal. After convincing them that I knew what I was talking about. Kohler paid for a new Command Pro to be installed on my mower. That has been about 6 years ago and it's still running like new.

Roger
02-23-2007, 09:38 PM
BTW, this thread was started 5 1/2 years ago -- maybe some of the early questions and information is no longer relevant. Or, maybe nothing has changed.

I was startled to see EricElm's response - a great source of information in year's past.

thecrankshaft
02-25-2007, 08:57 PM
Dealer warrantied and said it was a common defect they milled the heads

This is not a Kohler procedure from anything I have ever seen. The head should not be warped more than 0.003", and if it is, it should be replaced, not machined. These air-cooled engines run hot enough and create enough combustion pressure that they do not like the extra compression from less combustion chamber volume in the cylinder head.

I have so far not seen a 35xxxxxxx build (2005) command twin engine with a blown head gasket. I do continue to repair 33xxxxxxx and 34xxxxxxx (2003-2004) engines blow head gaskets.

For you guys with ticking lifters (CV twins only), I suggest you look into the separator plug kit (PN 24 755 135-S). Kohler made a design change to the breather cover and oil chamber that feeds the hydraulic lifters in 2001. Engines prior to that are susceptible to lifter noise from air entering the lifters. This is most predominant on the #1 cylinder, intake. The kit upgrades to the new cover and a plug that gets rid of the lifter noise.

KCLandscape
02-25-2007, 09:56 PM
to CRANKSHAFT.. Good Info..

chipk1
03-12-2007, 10:06 AM
This is not a Kohler procedure from anything I have ever seen. The head should not be warped more than 0.003", and if it is, it should be replaced, not machined. These air-cooled engines run hot enough and create enough combustion pressure that they do not like the extra compression from less combustion chamber volume in the cylinder head.

I have so far not seen a 35xxxxxxx build (2005) command twin engine with a blown head gasket. I do continue to repair 33xxxxxxx and 34xxxxxxx (2003-2004) engines blow head gaskets.

For you guys with ticking lifters (CV twins only), I suggest you look into the separator plug kit (PN 24 755 135-S). Kohler made a design change to the breather cover and oil chamber that feeds the hydraulic lifters in 2001. Engines prior to that are susceptible to lifter noise from air entering the lifters. This is most predominant on the #1 cylinder, intake. The kit upgrades to the new cover and a plug that gets rid of the lifter noise.


Unfortunately, that is what I am stuck with a 2004. My dealer also informed me that they are not selling any more Kohler equipped models because of this on going problem.

His quote to me was:

"Kohler knew they had a problem but they continued to put out these defective motors and now they won't stand behind them. Offering free replacement head gasket and bolts is a bunch of crap. They should have recalled this engine."

Sounds like they should have recalled and replaced them. I am not looking forward to continually replacing head gaskets. Even if they have finally corrected the design defect, I will never buy a Kohler equipped product again. Only because they don't stand behind their products even if they know there is a defective design issue!

thecrankshaft
03-19-2007, 11:36 AM
Sounds like they should have recalled and replaced them. I am not looking forward to continually replacing head gaskets. Even if they have finally corrected the design defect, I will never buy a Kohler equipped product again. Only because they don't stand behind their products even if they know there is a defective design issue!

Economically, why replace or recall thousands of engines for a head gasket issue? Some blow them, some don't. Most never blow the head gasket again after its replaced.

Most of them blow because of the way they are used (half throttle because some ill-informed, uneducated people think this is easier on the engine).

Kohler has helped many customers with head gasket issues outside of the warranty period in my experience talking to distributors and other dealers.

VegetiveSteam
03-23-2007, 05:10 PM
Creekside. What sort of problems are you refering to? There were some head gasket issues but that was an easy fix and once fixed the problem should never come back. You should also not have a problem with noisey lifters. If someone is having an issue with noisey lifters then something is wrong. It's not just the way the engine is.

chipk1
03-23-2007, 07:21 PM
After two head gasket jobs in 500 hours. Now I've had to replace complete short block and 1 head. Also have cracked exhaust manifold. I will give Kohler credit that they supplied the short block and head. But, I have had to pay over $700.00 in labor and misc parts in 3 weeks time. I really don't know how Kohler can keep pumping these 25hp's out. They need to stop until they figure out what the heck they are doing! Here is what I have been through with this motor since it was purchased upon my Dixie Chopper.

2 starters
3 starter solenoids
2 head gasket jobs
A complete short block and head replacement
Cracked exhaust manifold
Still backfires when taking engine RPM's Down

I run my mower at 3750 rpms as per Dealer information
Change oil every 75 hours, and filter every 150 hours.

Kohler should be ashamed of themselves for trying to pass this engine off as commercial grade!

My opinion, the motor is a piece of garbage. Maybe I just got a lemon, but from what I see here and other place on the net, most of them are problem bound.

tomo
03-24-2007, 04:42 PM
hello, as u have discovered calling the kohler or 4 that matter many of the gas mower engine commercial grade is a big call .The best credit u could give to the gas mower engines is heavy duty domestic .

Yes i have experienced most of what u r talking about .Please remember the 25hp kohler i am assuming was sold in huge numbers and therefore problems may seem to be often wide spread .
Put a 25 koh into a walker and the problems multiply !! [or any bagging unit].

There r ways to get around some of the issues but custom fab is not cheap and it takes up valuable time .The real point is there should be no need 4 this to ever happen in the first place . !!!!!!!

Remember many of kohler engines are based of the 25 hp ,they just have variations . In saying this it appears any late EFI engines r the best picks 26/28 hp [yes as u expect the earlier units did have issues].

When motor makers start making there engines fully rebuildable i may attempt to buy a new gaser but not before . [replaceable bearings etc etc] There is only a few that r kubota gaser and diahatsu gaser ,but i suspect not offered any more .

Diesel is the only option for less trouble is the way i see it .

tomo:waving:

khouse
03-24-2007, 11:44 PM
Most engines should not be rated as commercial. It's a heavy duty engine in a commercial application. Now a Wisconsin is a commercial engine in my view. But they are 2 to 3 times the money. I had a 88 inch Heckendorn mower with a 18 HP Wisconsin on it. It wasn't fast but it chugged along for 10 years before I did a top end rebuild - and I bought it used!

tpmartin
04-06-2007, 12:57 PM
I am having the same problems with my kohler. When it idles it is at normal rpm...as soon as i engage the blades or even move forward the rpms go way down. I bought it in late 2002 its probably a 2003 model. my spec # is 68579. At this point i have tightened the valve keeper/rod holder on the passenger side of the mower....about 25 hours later I had to replace a bent rod on the same valve. The engine is crazy loud.

The dealer told me to have the engine torn apart and then we can go from there.

My question is who did you guys talk to get parts from kohler to fix the problem? So any help you guys could give me would be great!!!

GFTC
04-06-2007, 11:05 PM
My 25hp Kohler is going in next week for it's second set of head gaskets, and it only has 458hrs on it! Im pretty pissed to say the least.

DaughtryLC
04-07-2007, 09:08 AM
My 25hp Kohler is going in next week for it's second set of head gaskets, and it only has 458hrs on it! Im pretty pissed to say the least.

What is your setup(mower), Just curious!

GFTC
04-07-2007, 12:13 PM
It's a 60" Country Clipper. I love the mower, no complaints there, but the Kohler SUCKS!

DaughtryLC
04-07-2007, 12:18 PM
I have a Snapper RiderZ 61" 25hp K, Blowed head gasket on the L side at 50hrs. Had no problems sence.

GFTC
04-08-2007, 10:35 AM
I blew the first one at about 440hrs, and blew it again shortly after. :hammerhead: :cry:

thecrankshaft
04-12-2007, 07:26 PM
I blew the first one at about 440hrs, and blew it again shortly after. :hammerhead: :cry:

18 hours later? Find a new mechanic!

TPmartin, the first thing I would check is to see if it is running on only one cylinder.