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SamIV
04-25-2007, 12:33 PM
Do any of you have any experience with the Nite Star II or Delta Star in brass. I have a high-end install coming up an need something just to tweak it a little. They will be used for up and down lights as well as a few mounted on a twelve inch riser. Was going to use the Kichler 15384 in brass but would like to step it up a notch from there. Doug you already told me you like them, but you can still chime in.

SamIV
Accent Outdoor Lighting.

bumper
04-25-2007, 12:57 PM
F/X MU , SI,uplight, TC downlight NICE!!!!

SamIV
04-25-2007, 11:16 PM
Thanks for the reply bumper. I am familiar with FX and they do make a good middle of the road aluminum fixture. I am looking for a higher end brass, copper or bronze fixture.

Thanks,
SamIV
Accent Outdoor Lighting

klkanders
04-25-2007, 11:24 PM
Sam,
What about Unique, Coppermoon, or lightcraft (just recently rec'vd some literature on)?

NiteTymeIlluminations
04-26-2007, 08:36 AM
Bert,

I don't think many guys on here are that familiar with BK to be honest with you. Its an architectural type lighting line. You hit the nail on the head when you stated FX, Unique, etc were middle of the road lighting line. Very good lines but not BK, HK, Lumiere, etc...

There are lines out there that are just exceptional products that 99% of the lighting community will never use. I have jobs that call for such products in the Carribean and when I suggest a product like BK they never ask about the quality of that light. The engineers and architects know!!!

BK is not a Kichler, Hadco, FX, Nightscaping, or Unique...its is definitely a step above. And I sell all of those lines and proud to do so but when you are looking for something special.

Jan Moyer designed and spec'd job not too far from my shop a few years ago. 4200 mr16 fixtures on a residential job and 700 mr16 well lights. Do you think she spec'd Hadco or Kichler? No way Lumiere, HK, and Kim, three exception arch products even though it was a residential job.

NightScenes
04-26-2007, 10:25 AM
Doug, don't forget Hunza. When you are talking top of the line, Hunza has to be at the top of the list.

NiteTymeIlluminations
04-26-2007, 10:34 AM
Hunza, hydrel, etc...I deal with all these brands, they are very hard to sell and thats why you don't hear alot about them unless you run in the right circles...

irrig8r
04-26-2007, 10:57 AM
.... Jan Moyer designed and spec'd job not too far from my shop a few years ago. 4200 mr16 fixtures on a residential job and 700 mr16 well lights. Do you think she spec'd Hadco or Kichler? No way Lumiere, HK, and Kim, three exception arch products even though it was a residential job ......

A friend turned me on to a company called Aurora Lighting www.auroralight.com . Their stainless trident stake is exactly what Jan Moyer says (at a seminar last year) she specifies for ALL ground mounted fixtures these days.

Eden Lights
04-26-2007, 12:13 PM
Do any of you have any experience with the Nite Star II or Delta Star in brass. I have a high-end install coming up an need something just to tweak it a little. They will be used for up and down lights as well as a few mounted on a twelve inch riser. Was going to use the Kichler 15384 in brass but would like to step it up a notch from there. Doug you already told me you like them, but you can still chime in.

SamIV
Accent Outdoor Lighting.

The NS lens is flush with the end of the fixture and will cause glare unless the fixture cannot be seen from any viewing angles.

The DS are both excellent fixtures in terms of glare control with the 1" shroud or the 45 degree longer shroud.

Both of these fixtures are machined and the socket is sealed into a machined recess. With that being said if you need to replace the socket down the road you must break the socket and clean out the well to prepare for a replacement. The job must be in a harsh enviroment since you are specing brass, so you should consider this if it is a large install. While I think BK makes some excellent products: core drill series, recessed series, and they make some excellent glare free fixtures. If glare can be controlled with the 15384 you can provide and maintain a better fixture IMHO for alot less money and spend that budget on something else in the design.

If your bent using a machined fixture, I would look at HK, BK, Kim and in that order. Yes I didn't list Lumiere due to poor quality in the fixtures that I have recieved over the years even though I think it is a excellent design

NiteTymeIlluminations
04-26-2007, 12:34 PM
Well put...Lumiere went down hill the day Cooper bought them. They stillhave some products a few oher guys aren't making that I need every once in a while. Recently I haven't had any quality issues though.

NiteTymeIlluminations
04-26-2007, 12:38 PM
We'd all like to sell Teka on every job I'm sure...I'm sorry I forgot to include them in my list...who can spend 250 a spot light though!!! I did get to quote some paths the other day though!!!

Chris J
04-26-2007, 09:26 PM
A friend turned me on to a company called Aurora Lighting www.auroralight.com . Their stainless trident stake is exactly what Jan Moyer says (at a seminar last year) she specifies for ALL ground mounted fixtures these days.

I don't have much experience with this company, but I did check out their product line about a year ago.....wasn't impressed at all. In my opinion, you have two choices: stay in the main stream with Kichler, Hadco, Kim, etc... or go high end with Hunza, BK and the Like. Don't boggle yourself down with all of the middle of the road "want-a-be's" that are just coming into the market in the past 5 to 10 years. Their products simply don't have a track record to prove their performance; you will lose money on warranty issues if these companies are not willing to back you up in the long run. (2 cents)

Chris J

irrig8r
04-26-2007, 10:38 PM
I don't have much experience with this company, but I did check out their product line about a year ago.....wasn't impressed at all. In my opinion, you have two choices: stay in the main stream with Kichler, Hadco, Kim, etc... or go high end with Hunza, BK and the Like. Don't boggle yourself down with all of the middle of the road "want-a-be's" that are just coming into the market in the past 5 to 10 years. Their products simply don't have a track record to prove their performance; you will lose money on warranty issues if these companies are not willing to back you up in the long run. (2 cents)

Chris J

#1. They have been in the business since 1997

#2. Have you seen their warranty?

http://www.auroralight.com/Warranty.html

No questions asked lifetime warranty on all fixtures. Ummmm..... I think that's called resetting the bar. :)

SamIV
04-26-2007, 10:41 PM
Thanks for all the replies everyone. Eden, now I remember the professor on that other forum talk about the socket issue. Machined products do offer that certain zing. Going to walk the property again Monday and feel out the client. His property deserves that extra touch and he can afford it. The property is right off the beach as well and this a replacement for his line voltage system system after a hurricane rolled through. Going to research's the Kim a little more as well as the Aurora. Have actually used the Kim vaults before, just not their bullets. Will be using BK's recessed fixtures for part of the design. Undecided on remaining.

There is an aluminum FX fixture next door that survived the storm and has been there for 5 to 6 years. It seems to have handled mother nature fairly well. Very little paint fade, gaskets are in good shape as well as the socket. And yes it was under salt water during the storm. No corrosion at all. The others were washed or blown away. I don't install aluminum though.

Thanks,
SamIV
Accent Outdoor lighting

Chris J
04-26-2007, 10:55 PM
#1. They have been in the business since 1997

#2. Have you seen their warranty?

http://www.auroralight.com/Warranty.html

No questions asked lifetime warranty on all fixtures. Ummmm..... I think that's called resetting the bar. :)

Thanks for the reply Gregg. I guess I'll have to check them out again to see what the fuss is all about.
Common sense, however, would tell me that no manufacturer is going to warranty their product "no matter what".
Just in case I'm wrong about this, please clarify: If I install a system and five years later the homeowner doesn't like the way the fixtures are aging...the landscaper can mow them down with the riding lawn mower and the manufacturer will replace all fixtures "no questions asked"? WOW! What a great deal! Tell me more!

Thanks again,

Chris J

Eden Lights
04-26-2007, 11:12 PM
The Warranty really doesn't mean a whole lot when it comes to customer preception and wasted time: example Unique - I ordered several of the fixtures after meeting Mr. Mullen at a symposium at the opening of Evening Island at the Chicago Botanical Hall. I tried the probe, pulsar, and starburst. The lock and load sockets fail more than they worked, the starburst leaked water if aimed at any slight upward angle, the starburst had the worst photometrics of any fixture I had every seen,my daughter said it looked like a projector with a starburst pattern. Maybe that's how they got the name?? Several of the probes and pulsars I had to mix and match the shrouds for a better fit. The quasar tree mount was almost impossible while on a ladder. All of the above failed to maintain aiming. Well I have said enough on the cons side.

The good was that the customer service was the best I had ever recieved from just about any bussiness period. Returns and repairs was excellent. I was so impressed that I have taken on several large abandoned Unique systems and the customer service dept. has taken me in like one of their own.

Also if I am installing a system to be dimmed, I haven't found a better transformer in the larger sizes for playing nice with the control system modules.

Eden Lights
04-26-2007, 11:19 PM
See my review of Unique in the B-K thread, I said I wasn't going to comment when this thread started. So much for that!!

Chris J
04-26-2007, 11:56 PM
Eden, is Unique and Aurora the same brand? Maybe I'm confused here, but Gregg and I were discussing Aurora. I know a lot of manufacturers copy products, but is this what is going on here?
I don't want to cause a lot of waves on this site simply because I am relatively new, but if we are talking about Unique then I am going to dismiss myself out of this conversation.

I don't mean to be rude, but I just don't want to get into slamming someone who has been such a great developer of the landscape lighting world.

Chris J

Eden Lights
04-27-2007, 12:39 AM
Eden, is Unique and Aurora the same brand? Maybe I'm confused here, but Gregg and I were discussing Aurora. I know a lot of manufacturers copy products, but is this what is going on here?
I don't want to cause a lot of waves on this site simply because I am relatively new, but if we are talking about Unique then I am going to dismiss myself out of this conversation.

I don't mean to be rude, but I just don't want to get into slamming someone who has been such a great developer of the landscape lighting world.

Chris J

Warranties were being discussed-see your thread at 1:55am , Unique markets a complete Lifetime Warranty Landscape Lighting system. I was using the brand as a example to explain that Manufacturer warranties will guarantee you nothing in the real world of a rock solid system in the eyes of your clients. You have only one chance to get it right, and if your lifetime warranty equipment is getting replaced under warranty during the big party your toast and so is your rep. with the guests, friends, and etc.

No rudeness taken, We have been talking fixtures, not someone as you stated. So there is no slamming someone that I see?

What you may be calling a great development is smoke and mirrors in my eyes because I have seen the eyes of clients who dropped 20K on junk.

Chris J
04-27-2007, 01:11 AM
Got the message, and I agree. As I said, I don't use the stuff, but I never like to down-play an individual that has made such an impact on the market.
Good or bad, I have to give Mr. M. his due respect. If you haven't noticed, every respectable lighting contractor in the industry knows his name. Does that not say something for the man?
I will probably be forever one of the guys that refuses to use his products, but I will thank him when he is gone for his marketing of the outdoor lighting industry which he has devoted his whole life to. Maybe you should as well?

Chris J :cool2:

Chris J
05-05-2007, 01:11 AM
The Warranty really doesn't mean a whole lot when it comes to customer preception and wasted time: example Unique - I ordered several of the fixtures after meeting Mr. Mullen at a symposium at the opening of Evening Island at the Chicago Botanical Hall. I tried the probe, pulsar, and starburst. The lock and load sockets fail more than they worked, the starburst leaked water if aimed at any slight upward angle, the starburst had the worst photometrics of any fixture I had every seen,my daughter said it looked like a projector with a starburst pattern. Maybe that's how they got the name?? Several of the probes and pulsars I had to mix and match the shrouds for a better fit. The quasar tree mount was almost impossible while on a ladder. All of the above failed to maintain aiming. Well I have said enough on the cons side.

The good was that the customer service was the best I had ever recieved from just about any bussiness period. Returns and repairs was excellent. I was so impressed that I have taken on several large abandoned Unique systems and the customer service dept. has taken me in like one of their own.

Also if I am installing a system to be dimmed, I haven't found a better transformer in the larger sizes for playing nice with the control system modules.

Eden,
Respectfully, I have to ask this question: If you had this many problems with this system in the first place, why would you choose to replace these fixtures with same. Would it not have been better for the customer in question to re-design the system completely with more reliable products? Just curious....

Eden Lights
05-07-2007, 01:01 AM
Eden,
Respectfully, I have to ask this question: If you had this many problems with this system in the first place, why would you choose to replace these fixtures with same. Would it not have been better for the customer in question to re-design the system completely with more reliable products? Just curious....

You are right on about what would have been better, but?

These takeover clients that I have discussed would have been better served with complete overhauls, but they both had dropped over 20K each on the systems and the systems were less than 2 years old. Wire runs, design, etc. was not the problem, the problem was equipment failures. All lock and load sockets were replaced with standard sockets, starburst's were replaced with the super smooth photometrics of the KIM KLV715 and the treemounts and ball socket style fixture were replaced with HK ZX16CA's. One client didn't even go forward with anything until he watched his neighbors system for a couple of months. This systems still are sub-standard in my mind, but most of that is due the problems that come from par36 fixtures in general and not the brand.

As far as my Order for evaulation purposes a couple of years ago, everything minus the transformers was returned with a detailed letter of my concerns about the product. The dist. has a lighting showroom and the venture would have been great for both of us, but he couldn't see my concerns. He had already drank of the koolaid!!!! While it is very ironic, I just found out recently that both of my take over clients were sold the koolaid by the very same guy! Dist. keep telling these clients to call his weekend install guys and they of course had ran for the hills, never to return.

No Dis-Respect taken only excellent business questions, Thanks

eskerlite
05-07-2007, 10:05 PM
Unless You write a book, there is no one in my region that will spend 11,000 on one large Oak tree like the jobs Janet Moyer Gets. 20 lights on one tree? 500 per fixture? Not in my lifetime. She is in LA-LA land and a designer not a contractor. 4200 mr fixtures, was it Disney? Its all about who Youre clientel is.
Everybody makes quality fixtures.You have to find them.
Sean C.