Unmotivated Laborers

[michael bucher]

With most of us who have employees, one of the biggest problems is worker motivation. I personaly have problems with guys who want big money, but cannot be depended on day in & day out. I have noticed over the past several years, an increase in migrant workers on lawn & landscape crews. I've been told that a lot of these workers have families back home in Mexico that they are helping to support. The average DAILY wage in Mexico is $5 to $7 for a day of work. It seems to me that they would be much more motivated to work here due to the vast difference in the pay scale. They seem like extremely hard workers to me. Any thoughts on this?

[Lazer]

I would be hesitant to broad-brush a whole group of people.<p>But,<br>We do have hispanic workers and do find them to be harder working ON AVERAGE than some of the others.

[Evan528]

this summer during the drought i helped a guy i no out doing landscaping. he has about 10 workers from daminican republic...they work there asses off! in 105 degree days they work and work like there not even feelin the temps... 12 hour days most of them were working and then after that going back to work at a night job. ive never seen anything like it.... they also do a very good job and catch on quick.

[michael bucher]

That's good to hear Evan! I would pay above and beyond what I normally pay for workers like that.

[JML]

I have a few south american workers that i employ. If you treat them well and pay them just a little more than what they would get elsewhere, they become very dedicated and come back year after year.. That is so true about working in 100 degree weather like it was nothing..

[HOMER]

THESE FEW POSTS SPEAK VOLUMES OF THE AMERICAN WORK ETHIC DON'T THEY!!!!!!!THE KIDS COMING UP TODAY ARE GOING TO BE NO BETTER OFF, ALL THEY WANT TO DO IS PLAY AND PARTY. FROM TIME TO TIME A GOOD ONE WILL COME ALONG, BUT ITS FEW AND FAR BETWEEN. ITS SAD THAT NOT ONLY ARE OUR INDUSTRIES GOING SOUTH BUT THE EFFECTIVE LABOR POOL IS COMING NORTH TO REPLACE THE INEFFECTIVE, UNAPRECIATIVE, GENERATION WE HAVE TO PULL FROM. WHAT WILL IT TAKE TO TURN THIS AROUND?<p>HOMER

[Lanelle]

People need to learn how to work, just as they need to learn how to read, write and think logically. How can children see the benefit of work when most never really &quot;see&quot; what their parents do, are educated in a play environment by teachers who often don't set rigorous standards or goals (we want everyone to feel sucessful)and are given everything they want? Setting work goals and having children who spend some time working along side their parents or other adult helps to teach them the value of work.<br>My husband has taught several young men &quot;how&quot; to work. One now has his PhD. and another has his Masters. Both thanked him for the valuable lessons learned.<p>----------<br>Lanelle<br>

[Guido]

From my point of view as a 20 year old, I'm very sorry that I can't back up my generation x's y's z's or whatever &quot;they&quot; call us. I was raised in an old school italian environment where my elders made sure that I was learning more about work than video games. I ran a succesful outdoor maintenance business since I was 16. I am now in the U.S. Air Force, doing runway construction and base maintenance as a heavy equipment operator. I work with some of the laziest people in the entre world. the guys I work with think I'm crazy when I'm out in the heat busting my ass and taking a little pride in my work. When I'm supervising a crew, and a younger Airman tells me he's done with a job or task, before I even go look at it, I ask him, &quot;how do you think it came out? &quot; and &quot;What do you think I'll have to say about your work when I check it?&quot; I love hearing &quot;good enough&quot;, because once they hit me with that, I send them straight back out there. If its only good enough, I don't think its finished. So I'd have to agree with you all on this one. MOST (not all) Younger people these days have the attitude of doing a half-ass job, just enough to get by. It really makes me sick that this is the attitude these kids were raised with. The other thing I noticed is a screwed up welfare system in our country. We are way too spoiled. I had a debate once with someone who told me they're father couldn't find a job. He had no disability and he was only 35 years old. I suggested manual labor or McDonalds, etc. Her comeback was &quot;why would my did go to work at a minimum wage job, when he can make more staying home on welfare!&quot; That proved my point exactly. Most of us are so spoiled that we can't even see it. I think migrant workers that have a choice between busting there ass for $5- a day compared to busting there ass for $60-$120 a day will definetly work hard for there money. They know what it is to not have the luxery's that we are givin freely in the US, and they do not take it for granted. It's sad, but true; America rather take hand-outs then work. I didn't mean to babble on, but I wanted to give you a &quot;younger&quot; perspective of what we see going on. I get going on this, because these people give me a bad rep, and force me to have to proove my self time and time again.<p>----------<br>&quot;guido&quot;<br>David M. Famiglietti

[Bobby]

This is what happens when we kick GOD out of our schools and tell our children there are no moral absolutes. (above posts) I have said I could of been rich a long time ago if I could of kept all the work that I've had to sell along the way because of sorry help. Worst case I can think of ( It was Wednesday about noon. One of my guys starts looking at his watch. He says pull over. I stop the truck , he says I've made enough today to buy a six pack and a bag of smoke.I need my money. I told him to get with me Friday and left him standing on the side of the road. This is just one of many. I gave up on helpers. I now do low volume/high quality work.By my self. Bobby Ft Lauderdale

[Guido]

Okay, I'm coming back to ask for trouble. What can we do about the slouches of tommorow? I know I won't let my son sit around and rot his brain on dumb cartoons and video games. When he's old enough he'll be out working around Dad, learning how important it is to take pride and do your best, no matter how stupid the task may be. I read my post(above) a few times now and realized None of us came up with any suggestions to stop this problem. (besides instilling (sp) values in our children and the teen's we can &quot;save&quot; by being a mentor to them. Manual labor and such are classed as undesirable in todays world of computers, I know, but what would the world be, or become for that matter without plumbers, carpenters, all around construction and maintenance men and women. When I was in high school, I had all kinds of Dr.'s, lawyers and fancy schpanzy &quot;business men&quot; (those guys that don't really know what they do every day but they have a fancy titl) but never once did I see an engineer, construction worker, god nows a garbage man would get laughed off the stage. This is telling kids that the only people that do our lines of work are the people who aren't smart enough to hack a &quot;prestigous&quot; job. We all know it's BS. I've seen more people come out of 4 years of college and not have one damn skill that they can do. I'm not downing an education, (especially because I'm pursuing an associates in Construction Technology, and a bachelors in either horticulture or business management (hopefully both)) Some of the smartest people around are the people we learned our trades, and more importantly our work ethics from. And I think we need to push to the youngsters how important &quot;services&quot; are to the places we live. The world would stop dead in its tracks if it weren't for us &quot;dummies&quot;. <p>----------<br>&quot;guido&quot;<br>David M. Famiglietti

[southside]

We have exactly the same problem over here.<br>We have roughly 800k people out of work in a<br>population of 20 million.Half those people<br>wouldn't work in an iron lung.They get more<br>money on the dole than out EARNING their pay.<br>On average I fire an empoyee once every 2<br>weeks,cos as soon as I turn my back they are<br>standing around talking or sitting on their<br>asses.And they wonder why I get so pissed off.They think they should be paid to do<br>nothing.If assault didn't hav such a heavy<br>penalty I would kick the crap out of some<br>of these dick-heads.<br>Sorry to sound so irate but this is a topic<br>that always sends me off the deep end.<br>

[fireball]

lanelle, I agree with you. Todays worker is better than ever. The problem that I see is that todays teacher doesn't have the skills to teach tommorrows worker. For example, my teachers and parents couldn't teach me about computers. Todays teachers aren't teaching our children about how to use spreadsheets to buy things, because they don't know themselves. The speed of our communications has dramatically increased and this is causing confusion in what skills are needed for tommorrow. My grandfather cut grass with a horse drawn reel mower. He taught me how to do it and it is hard work, but I wouldn't waste my time trying to teach my grandson the same skills, he needs to know robots, GPS, and electronics. <br>When you are critical of todays worker, they become disillusioned real fast. Ask yourself,do you want to work for a boss that thinks you are not as good as the last person who held that job. You instanly know that you are not going anywhere because the boss perceives you are no good.<br>Are there any unmotivated laborers at Microsoft? Listen to Bill Gates the next time he speaks, he says &quot;OUR PEOPLE&quot;. He values that lowly programmer

[Lazer]

that lowly porgrammer is making 70G+ per year.<p>

[yardsmith]

I think part of the labor laziness prob. is why I still work mostly by myself.<br>It's harder & harder to find decent workers. Most want comp. wage with benefits, & a controlled environment-sounds great in the winter in between snowplowings.<br>But we can't be too critical-after all, isn't that why alot of us went to self employment? Cuz we were tired of working to make someone else wealthy for a wage determined & locked in by others? WE broke free to do our own thing. You'll never find anyone willing to work as hard as YOU to make YOUR dreams come true; everyone works to make THEIR dreams come true, why should they kill themselves to make someone else wealthy (sound familiar?). Spouse or family is closest you can come to finding true dedicated workers, & sometimes that doesn't work either.<br>On the whole, I totally agree that todays kids aint got the slightest clue of what work is. I have no desire to train people to do it how I want it. then fire them after a week or 2, & train half the people in town, & create my own competition.<br> Work for todays' youth seems to be just something to keep you busy while enjoying the social atmosphere while making a mediocre wage to boot. Then spend that $15 at the mall on Sat. God help them when they have to support a family!<br>Alot of it falls on the parents too. My folks never really hit me with a strong work ethic, but I was far from lazy. I didn't get my inner drive to be successful until my early 20's. By then I was already 5 yrs. too late. But better late than never. :) <br>My best advice is find teens/adults who aren't always at the mall. The more conservative types (like little house on the prairie) seem to work better than those who talk too much, but that is a generalization. Those who've worked on farms know what work is.<br>If you can, pick from people you know; that'll put you further ahead than to hire someone & then find out what kind of worker they are. Good luck 'yall.<p>----------<br>Smitty ô¿ô<p>

[HOMER]

One place you might find decent young part time help is at the high school level, check the ag dept. Usually these kids have a little desire to get dirty and may become farmers, landscapers etc.<p>Homer

[mattingly]

I second what guido and homer said respectively. Problem with kids---&gt;parents. No ifs ands or buts about it. I was raised on a farm where we grew 60+ acres of tobacco. And there was no sitting on my *ss either. We worked long days and missed out on a lot of things as youngsters. Do I agree with the kind of upbringing? No, you shouldn't have to work like that. We put in 80 hour work weeks in the summer months and that is no lie. I also started working when I was 4-5 yr old. Not real hard but I was out there being active. Nevertheless, it is good to instill some sort of work ethic in your children. Kids these days don't know the value of a dollar and that is their problem. Look at all these kids walking around with cell phones, its a disgrace. Only thing we can do is teach our own kids and let them learn. As homer said, lots of lawn care companies don't attack the high school ag dept. or for that manner the college ag schools. As a current student in an ag. college, lots of kids are working for the school for measly 6-7 dolares per hour. The only thing you need to be aware of here is flexibility. But trust me once they are out of school for the summer they will bust their hump for you.<p>----------<br>Integrated Landscape Solutions<br>Lexington, KY

[michael bucher]

I'm not quite sure what I'm trying to say, but, do you think that instead of paying our workers an hourly wage, with very little hope for them, (in the sense of there long term hopes and desires), could we do something like paying them for the amount of work they get done in a week. It creates an open ended ticket. The more growth and amount of work being done, the more money they can make. I realize this is not a new concept, but how to implement it into our work is my question?

[pogo]

Good reliable employees are always hard to find. One thing I try to instill in my employees is that I'm not looking just for &quot;workers&quot; but rather employees. When Im speaking of them to other people and they are around I always say that we work together and never that they work FOR me. I want them to feel like they work for themselves and take pride in their work. I 've had problems. I had a foreman who worked for me for 3 years w/ absolutely no problems, then one day he just vanished. It threw me into a tailspin.<br>But you know what? Its all part of having your own business. Labor problems are just something we as business owners have to take into consideration. Just like when the equipment breaks down and has to be fixed. I would still rather deal with the problems then have to go out and work for somebody else.

[1stclasslawns]

Several years ago I worked for a pest control co that paid us $800.00 a month plus bonus. We made a percentage of what we did. It worked well then some months I cleared 2500.00. So that is what I have done in the past when Ive needed help. Ive told them that I'd pay them xx.xx per day and if we had a good day they would get more. It has worked on some ocassions and on others it hasnt. They soon find out that when they break a piece of equipment and we have to shut down for repairs it cost them money too. So the rewards have been many. I suprised the hell out of one fellow one day when we had had a relly great week when I gave him 100.00 bonus. No break downs just a bustin week. I had made well he made well. Share the wealth kinda deal. I know it will work on some lawns and not others but done weekly they all figure in the same. <br>If I can average say 200.00 per day by myself, and have a helper and can average 300.00 per day less 50.00 per day wages, he has made me an extra 50.00 per day so why not give him an extra 25.00 per day and he'll want to keep it up, because his pocket book will be thicker and yours too when he works well. But they wont be when he dosent want to work. ( I used the figures for ease of display only)<br>If you send them out on a job alone and their work isnt up to par they must redo it on their own time, make this VERY understood to the point of in writing. It works for Kubota tractors so why not here. Just a thought I dont know how it'll work, when Ive used it in the past it worked well but I guess I'll just havto see.

[ashlandscaping]

Labor is hard to find good labor is almost a joke to find. As far as looking at the younger kids comeing up not a lot to look at. One MAIN PROBLEM IS THE SCHOOLS they look down on people like you and me the guys who get dirty. Schools in my area are doing away with shop class metals is gone. Casting is gone. I tell you what if they didnt have any shop class when I was in school I would never have gone to school. I worked in this trade while in high school then went to do it on the side when I went and did rough framing. My building trades teacher from school which is a good friend of mine now tells me how they have to fight to tell kids about the programs offered. The school doesnot want to push kids into dirty work. I had a chance to talk to a school programs director a little while back and as she told me theirs no future for kids to do labors work when they can make more doing less work. Well I know guys who have a master degrees and make less then I do. I have talked to buddy younger sibling that are just coming out of college that have HUGE bills to pay and can only find a job makeing $ 10 per hour. Then I hear from guys I grew up with that are in the trades telling me to come back into it since they are making $ 65 to 90 for 9 months a year. So the time is going towards computers and others but theirs even more money to be made in the trades do to the decline in kids going into it. Also that ONE other reason labor is getting harder to find. I had 2 guys leave me and go labor for a remodling co. Makeing $ 10 hour min. 55 hours per week and full time year round. So why would you want to work for $ 6 to 9 hour and get laid off in winter or have your hours cut down to 30 per week so they cant get their unemployement check??????? It makes no sense but it going to start to drive the prices up for US soon.

[HOMER]

Thats the good thing about kids, they don't expect to make $10.00 an hour yet. They are happy having a little spending money though. They are not too out of shape yet so they tend to be able to keep up without getting winded. Dependability..........That can be a minor problem when they play sports or whatever, spring break, but overall they are there for you in the summer when you need them the most. I got em knocking at the door, they (some of them anyway) think it's cool to ride the mowers and make a little money.........beats McDonalds!

[michael bucher]

A couple of you who responded to this post have said postive things about migrant workers. My question to anyone is; can you point me in the right direction as to where I could specificaly seek out migrant workers in northwest indiana ??

[steveair]

When reading all of these replies the only answer that comes to my mind is &quot;how true&quot;. It is extremely hard to find good employees and the truth is, as a few of you have mentioned, the only person who will work as hard as you want them too is YOU. I don't know when it happened, or if it has been this way through out time, but i feel that people have just become to dam greedy and self centered in this whole dam world. If you look around, nobody wants to help each other out (well, except for this place, which may be one of the only places on the planet that I have found so far). Its always about &quot;me&quot; and about how much or what honor will i receive if I do this. People have lost the understanding of why people are on this planet. We were put here to help each other out. If we were suppose to do everything by ourselves, god would of put 1 person on this planet by himself, and said &quot;here, do it all&quot;<br>This is not the case.<p>Theres a word I love to use and that word is &quot;synergy&quot;. What synergy is is when 2 people get together and create something greater than the whole . Its like adding 1 plus 1 and getting 3,4, and so on (unlike cooperation where you take 1 plus 1` and just get 2) . When people can 'synergize', so much more can happen. <p>An example of what i mean is this. Last year<br> i went on an interview to do some design work for a landscape company. The interview went very well and we both had a good feeling for each other and were both on the same track. Then the train derailed. When talking about prices, I told him the price that i charge for my plans is 300 to 400 dollars for the size jobs he wants. After hearing this, he responded back with saying that he wanted to pay me hourly instead. I said OK, no problem, but then asked him what he had in mind. He said in the range of 13 to 15 per hour. Now, for me, considering i can do a plan in about 10 hours, this means I'd be making 130 to 150 dollars working for him. See something wrong here.....?<p>Well, i sure did. So i responded back to him and asked where he came up with that number. He responded with, &quot;well i have a business to run and overhead, and bills, and trucks to run,....&quot; and so and so on. I said &quot;I see, and i can understand that your have costs to bear and so and so on..., but the difference is very substantial, and i I have a very good knowlegde of your costs, and can see no reason for this. I know for a fact (for I live in the area and know his prices for plans) that you charge the same price i do, and surely would be crazy to work for such a low rate.&quot; I also then followed with , &quot;I have always been impressed with your work and think that it would be a honor to work with you. You have a lot to offer me and I too have a lot to offer you. Together, I feel, as I think you do, we could accomplish many things and take both our businesses to the next level and beyond. I would hate for price to be a issue here&quot;<p>Well, after that he sat there and just said, Ill think about it and get back to you. Sure enough, a week later, he called back and said that things just won't work out. Now, a year later, as heard through the grapevine...., he still is looking for a designer, and get this, the excuse he uses is, &quot;Well, there's just no body out there&quot;<p>You know what i think... I think thats a crock of (&#%... <p>What he did not want to do, as i call it, is Synegize. He only saw the situation as what he could get out of it. He lost the big picture in hopes of putting a little money in his pocket. Such a shame.....<p>This, I feel, is such a huge problem in our industry, and the world for that matter. In the eyes of the employee, which i'm sure most of us have been, mangagement is always trying to get what they can out of you and give nothing in return. Also, vice versa, the employer sees its workers as just trying to do as little as possible to get as much as they can out of them.<p>This whole system needs to change......and i refuse to give in to it. Both contractors and employees need to change the attitude from &quot;ME&quot; to &quot;WE&quot;. If this were to happen, both parties could reap neverending benefits.<p>If this ever happens in my life time, well, I <br>just don't know. What I do know is this though. That contractor is still looking for a designer and I'm gonna call him again. If nothing comes out of this year, then you know what, I'll try again next year. People do change and you can't give up hope in that.<p>steveair...Pennscapes Landscape Design<br>

[steveair]

OH ya, and one more thing....<p>After the part I said about not giving up hope in people changing, I forgot to ad <p>&quot;but you can lose a lot of money on them&quot;<p>LOL<br>just joking, but seriously, everyone here is great and I greatly enjoy all of the comments. thanks.<br>

[Stonehenge]

I'm sure I'm just like everyone else, and when I read these posts my blood pressure shot up thinking of poor employees. One thing I work on and have found invaluable in finding good people is interviewing skills. Last year I hired 6 employees and only ended up firing one (fired on day three). However, I interviewed about 50 to get those 6.<p>You only have 10-15 minutes to make a decision on these people, so you need to pay attention to everything. If an interviewee is two minutes late, I don't give them the job. Among other things, they have to push a wheelbarrel loaded with 400 lbs of retaining wall block about 40 feet. It's funny seeing the really cocky ones spill it and get all red-faced and sheepish.<p>For the ones that make the cut, I treat them with respect, but am not afraid to lay down the law. This doesn't mean yelling at them. I've been in corporate mgt awhile, and try to apply the things I learned there: <p>1)Give them praise for doing a good job.<br>2)Correct unwanted behaviors immediately. And target the behavior, not the person.<br>3)Make sure they understand what is expected of them and the roles they play in your organization.<p>Because I can't correct behaviors in a closed-door office, I ask the employee in need of correcting to hop in the truck with me to take a ride. I never scream. I always tell them what the behavior is that needs modifying, how the behavior impacts the company, and what the repercussions will be for not changing the behavior. They appreciate not being dressed down in front of their coworkers, and I never speak of what was discussed in the truck to anyone else. Unfortunately, the first 'truck ride' resulted in the employee being fired right then. However, it had the unexpected benefit that anytime I asked anyone else to go for a ride with me, they got very serious very quickly.<p>I apologize for the length of this. If you check out the landscaping forum, you'll see I tend toward the long-winded side. But I hope this helps someone.

[snowqueen]

Well guy's I been sitting hear and reading all of your responces to the unmotivated laborers, and I do agree with most of you but how ever,hiring wet backs is not your answer I think this just contributes to our problem, You hire thes guy's at half the price, and you say they do more work then our locals do. Well think about this if you would pay more for a decient employee and treat them with some respect they just might stick around.