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View Full Version : My first manifold...advice please.


j_nolesfan
04-26-2007, 10:50 AM
Ok guys, this is my first DIY sprinkler system. I've posted a couple of other threads during my project. You guys saved me from the mistake of getting the important parts from Home Depot. :clapping: I'm at the point where I want to connect the first zone to the manifold and I want to think this thing through before I start gluing pipe together. I bought two RainBird prefab manifolds that come with the valves. I have a two valve and a three valve. I have a 1.25" PVC pipe that ends in a ball valve coming out of my well tank that runs parallel to the side of my house. It's about a foot away from the wall and about 8" above the ground. I want to run from the ball valve to the manifold and run straight from the manfold out to the field. However, I'd like to merge all of the pipes in the same trench at some point. The pipes exiting the manifold will all be 1.5". I will only be using 4 of the 5 zones to start (hopefully ever). Now, I'm in northern Florida where it can get below freezing about 10 total days a year so keeping this part from getting too cold is a consideration. Since this is my first manifold installation, I'm totally wide open to suggestion. I would love to hear advice that borrows on your experience.

Should I use two 45's to drop the pipe down from the tank exit to the manifold instead of two 90's? I ask for pressure drop reasons if it matters. Next, should I put the valves below ground level? If so, should I try to bury them so that the top of the box is level or near level with the ground? I'm looking for pros and cons. I'm thinking of taking the exit of three of the valves out with a 45 degree and fanning them all over until they run the same line (in the same trench). The other option would be to dig a wide trench for 10'-12' until they make a 90 degree turn in opposite directions (two toward the front yard and two toward the back yard). This would cross the trench in the picture. A third option would be to run them straight out like the yellow lines show and 90 them into the trench in the picture. Here's a pic of my setup.
Thanks again,
Jeff
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/196/473490362_8040b6ba9b_b.jpg

j_nolesfan
04-26-2007, 09:53 PM
Wow, 51 views and nary a reply? Was it something I said? Or didn't say?
Jeff

Dirty Water
04-26-2007, 10:36 PM
Elbow into ground, set valve box so lid is flush with soil level.

How much you want to dig is the only determing factor as to how to route the pipe out of the valves.

CAPT Stream Rotar
04-26-2007, 11:03 PM
dude make your own manifold...and cut back that box...

WAYYYYYYY to big....get a 6 standard

Remote Pigtails
04-26-2007, 11:07 PM
J Let me tell you a story. This was shown at the beginning of 2001 A Space Odyssey. At the dawn of man a giant slab of concrete came to earth and give irrigator monkeys special knowledge. With this special knowledge we learned to use sticks and bang the ground and kill animals which made us strong. Then we went to the watering hole of irrigation knowledge where the DIY monkeys were making a mess of things. We whopped the DIY monkeys upside the head and chased them away. To give this knowledge back we need something in return. Can you impart some wisdom among us? Do you have some funny jokes? Make us irrigator monkeys feel that we are being rewarded for our knowledge.

DanaMac
04-27-2007, 09:41 AM
J Let me tell you a story. This was shown at the beginning of 2001 A Space Odyssey. At the dawn of man a giant slab of concrete came to earth and give irrigator monkeys special knowledge. With this special knowledge we learned to use sticks and bang the ground and kill animals which made us strong. Then we went to the watering hole of irrigation knowledge where the DIY monkeys were making a mess of things. We whopped the DIY monkeys upside the head and chased them away. To give this knowledge back we need something in return. Can you impart some wisdom among us? Do you have some funny jokes? Make us irrigator monkeys feel that we are being rewarded for our knowledge.

That was great piggie!!!!!!

j_nolesfan
04-27-2007, 09:42 AM
Well Remote Pigtails, I can say that the name "Remote Pigtails" brings some bizarre fetish pornography to mind. Is that funny? :laugh:

Monkeys ought not to play with pipes that aren't theirs.

There once was a monkey from Nantucket...well, you get the picture. (ba-dum bum).

I'm here all week, please try the fish. Be sure to tip your waiter or waitress.

dude make your own manifold...and cut back that box...

WAYYYYYYY to big....get a 6 standard
I'm not sure exactly what a 6 standard looks like.
As for the size of the box... and the manifolds, they came as a kit which saved me about $100. The box is a four on the side you see and/or a three on the back side of it. However, to get the manifold in the box as it is layed out, I can't fit the 5th valve on it without cutting the box.

The kit came with a Rainbird ESP4M outdoor clock, rain sensor, and pump start relay as well as what you see in the picture. I'm still coming out cheaper than if I bought all of the parts separately AND built my own manifold. The only other way I could imagine using this box with 5 valves and building my own manfold would be to alternate the T's where one T went out one side of the box and the next went out the other side. I don't think I could get the configuration any tighter (more compact) than it already is though.

Anyone know the rules of thumb on pipe length and flow as related to water hammer? I would think that short runs (under 5', etc) wouldn't be very susceptible to water hammer. I ask because the manifold will be handling about 30 GPM in some situations and I plan to run 1.25" pipe to the manifold from the tank. It's probably not an issue but I just want to cover all my bases.
Cheers,
Jeff

j_nolesfan
04-27-2007, 09:43 AM
P.S.> I gots nanners. How 'bout some nanner puddin'?

Wet_Boots
04-27-2007, 09:54 AM
If you're running 30 gpm, your valves may be 'hammering' all on their own. For the money, you'll live with it. Tables for pipe friction pressure losses are all over the internet. Find a table, and run the numbers yourself, since that is your responsibility, and no one else's (unless you're paying them for it)

As for manifolds, they can always be more compacthttp://img348.imageshack.us/img348/6049/eightvalvemanifold23fz.jpg

DanaMac
04-27-2007, 10:04 AM
If you're running 30 gpm, your valves may be 'hammering' all on their own. For the money, you'll live with it. Tables for pipe friction pressure losses are all over the internet. Find a table, and run the numbers yourself, since that is your responsibility, and no one else's (unless you're paying them for it)

As for manifolds, they can always be more compact

Boots, please stop showing that photo, I cringe and get sick every time I see it :nono:

bobw
04-27-2007, 10:37 AM
Boots, please stop showing that photo, I cringe and get sick every time I see it :nono:

Thank you for that...stops me from having to write a long scathing diatribe on that design :nono:

The only thing worse I've ever seen is a couple of sites (I assume done by the same contractor) that have the valves stacked vertically (3 over 4). I have told those lucky owners that if they ever have a valve problem, they're in for a $700 minimum repair

j_nolesfan
04-27-2007, 11:06 AM
Yeah, that is compact but I suppose you'd have to rip the whole thing to shreds if you needed to replace a complete valve body. I guess that's what makes DanaMac cringe? (not wanting to initiate the diatribe but hoping for the nutshell explanation IF I'm wrong) If compression or threaded fittings were used, I would think it would be more serviceable. Mine has threaded fittings on the valves, thank goodness. I'll go look for a friction chart. :dizzy:

Wet_Boots
04-27-2007, 11:29 AM
Yeah, that is compact but I suppose you'd have to rip the whole thing to shreds if you needed to replace a complete valve body. I guess that's what makes DanaMac cringe? (not wanting to initiate the diatribe but hoping for the nutshell explanation IF I'm wrong) If compression or threaded fittings were used, I would think it would be more serviceable. Mine has threaded fittings on the valves, thank goodness. I'll go look for a friction chart. :dizzy:It's kind of a gag (or maybe it just makes installers gag) with the track record of the Richdel valve designs behind it. I wouldn't try it with any other makes, and probably wouldn't even trust a tech to assemble the thing, if I weren't watching it being done. As installed, the (they are threaded, and removeable without having to destroy the manifold) valve bodies don't seem to break. (knock wood :hammerhead: )

bobw
04-27-2007, 11:33 AM
J - You'd have to dig up that box and rip the manifold apart. Even with compression fittings, it looks to me, like the box edges are resting on the valve bodies, so you'd still have to dig up the box.

Ideally, you'd have much more space and threaded fittings with o rings so that you could pop a valve body in and out if you needed to. I don't even use the multi-valve style that you have; just 't's hooked together so I can replace any one part as/if needed.

I have never understood the people that do glue up PVC manifolds. To me it seems like very false economy. Everytime I see one at a new customer's house I cringe wondering what other cheap shortcuts were taken.

j_nolesfan
04-27-2007, 11:43 AM
I have never understood the people that do glue up PVC manifolds.

Are you saying that you use threaded fittings on all three ends of the T's and on the valves? The threaded fittings on my valves will allow me to pull them out without pulling the pipe away from the manifold. I'm not in love with the one piece manifold. I could build my own but I would like to fit it into the box I have. If I do it right, I should be able to remove any complete valve body without cutting anything. I'm just not exactly sure what "right" is yet :laugh:
This is where I was looking to go with this thread though, some pics of well designed manifold layouts (I know that pic isn't an example of good design), preferrably more compact configurations.
Thanks again,
Jeff

Wet_Boots
04-27-2007, 11:56 AM
J - You'd have to dig up that box and rip the manifold apart. Even with compression fittings, it looks to me, like the box edges are resting on the valve bodies, so you'd still have to dig up the box.Yes to removing the valve box, but no to ripping the manifold apart. No box I install ever rests on pipes or valves. There is sufficient clearance to unthread a body. In any event, using the Richdel valves, (manufactured with PVC bodies) and avoiding any female threads on the manifold plumbing, are what allows that type of construction.

You have probably never seen a Lloyd King manifold cross fitting, but they made an even more compact assembly, and still maintained the clearance to allow a Richdel valve body to be unthreaded. The clearance was just a fraction of an inch, but it was there. Not that it was ever needed. Richdel valve bodies had 'oversized' FPT ends, which I think are a key to making it all work. (knock wood :hammerhead: )

In an ideal world, there would be available valves and manifold fittings and insert adapters with union ends, so valves could be pulled out as simply as a water meter is.

Ed G
04-27-2007, 11:59 AM
here is one of my manifolds

Wet_Boots
04-27-2007, 12:07 PM
Are you saying that you use threaded fittings on all three ends of the T's and on the valves?The manifold itself is glued together. The basic rule is to avoid any female threaded PVC fittings.
(I know that pic isn't an example of good design)Here's another manifold for you, and no crosses.http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/1072/threevalvemanifold2lz4.jpg

CAPT Stream Rotar
04-27-2007, 12:09 PM
why is it bad to have female pvc threaded fittings?

Wet_Boots
04-27-2007, 12:27 PM
why is it bad to have female pvc threaded fittings?They can split. If a split has to happen at a manifold, better it be a removeable valve body that splits. Some male-threaded valve bodies, like Toro's, are made from the softer glass-filled nylon, and may be less likely to split a female-threaded fitting. (that being said, you can find a thread here about how some FPT manifold fittings were splitting where the valves threaded in)

Mike Leary
04-27-2007, 12:32 PM
Boots, please stop showing that photo, I cringe and get sick every time I see it :nono:

I think he does that just to keep us honest...he probably mocked it up
just to drive us up the wall!:hammerhead:

Wet_Boots
04-27-2007, 12:46 PM
You should have seen it before it got buried. No way would it have seemed possible to get it all deeply seated and out of harm's way, without kinking the tubing.

j_nolesfan
04-27-2007, 01:12 PM
Here's another question, is there any reason I shouldn't cut the bottom side of the box out where it runs below the pipe and locks it into the box so to speak? This would make it where I could lift the box out of the hole without disturbing the pipe. In the case of some makeover work (or do over work), it might prove handy to be able to dig the hole larger than the box and remove it entirely. I just wanted to get an opinion on that.
Thanks,
Jeff

Wet_Boots
04-27-2007, 01:24 PM
If that box is only half-a-foot high, you should take it back and buy the real thing. Of course you cut slots in the side of the box, where the pipes will be, so the actual valve 'pit' will be deeper than the valves.

Dirty Water
04-27-2007, 02:48 PM
I think he is referring to the rainbird box with the knockouts.

Always cut it so the box can be removed without cutting the pipe. Thats commonsense.

sheshovel
04-27-2007, 03:58 PM
Hey Ed G don't try to fool the She, that manifold is not glued up. Trying to make it look like you are a glory gluer huh? Not a chance, that won't fly.

sheshovel
04-27-2007, 03:59 PM
If you're running 30 gpm, your valves may be 'hammering' all on their own. For the money, you'll live with it. Tables for pipe friction pressure losses are all over the internet. Find a table, and run the numbers yourself, since that is your responsibility, and no one else's (unless you're paying them for it)

As for manifolds, they can always be more compacthttp://img348.imageshack.us/img348/6049/eightvalvemanifold23fz.jpg

OMG! Boots not AGAINNNN!!!@!Ahhhhhhggggggggggggg!

Ed G
04-27-2007, 04:10 PM
Good catch!

Actually She, when I originally posted that photo (last October/ November) , I stated it was dry fitted together.

The box shown on top of the manifold is an extension for a valve box and not the one put in the ground.

sheshovel
04-27-2007, 04:15 PM
I am a good catch yepp.

Ed G
04-27-2007, 04:19 PM
ya gotta love a woman that wears ball caps, rides Harleys and has calloused feet :)

CAPT Stream Rotar
04-27-2007, 04:21 PM
ya gotta love a woman that wears ball caps, rides Harleys and has calloused feet :)

and can also dig.........

sooooo hot!

sheshovel
04-27-2007, 04:32 PM
How embarrassing!! Please!! Not in front of Boots!

j_nolesfan
04-27-2007, 05:50 PM
Thanks for the info guys. The box is deep, probably 18" if I had to guess. I thought it was common sense to cut out the complete slots but the way thay make those knockouts suggests that they want you to punch a hole and not a notch in the bottom (notch being a U shaped notch that removes the bottom lip of the box). Thanks for easing my curiosity. I hope to put in a full day in the yard tomorrow. If I'm lucky, I'll fire up my first two zones out of four. Yes, I'm very slow, lots of distractions, other projects, etc.
Cheers to the weekend!
Jeff

CAPT Stream Rotar
04-27-2007, 05:54 PM
good luck Jeff...take pics!!!!

and Pwn that mainifold

j_nolesfan
04-27-2007, 05:55 PM
and Pwn that mainifold
HUH?:confused: Pwn?

CAPT Stream Rotar
04-27-2007, 05:57 PM
PWN=own...

but with the elevated P its the higest internet version of Owning..

aka PWNING those valves like a champ
its just stupid internet lingo i picked up from some other websites

j_nolesfan
04-27-2007, 06:02 PM
Interesting...guess that means I been skooled today huh?

CAPT Stream Rotar
04-27-2007, 06:06 PM
today you have been irrigatiPWNd...

get it?

here is another one..when you stubb your toe or anything ect you go self't..

self'd=self Pwned aka self't.....

Mike Leary
04-27-2007, 07:36 PM
Wow, 51 views and nary a reply? Was it something I said? Or didn't say?
Jeff

Everyone waits to see who's the first to put his/her foot in it and have the
rest pounce like the Jackals we truly are. I mite have missed a thread, but
are you going to enclose the ball valve & 60/40 switch in a enclosure?
There is the issue of sch 40 (or any) pvc except sch 80 being not u.v.
resistant. "listens for the sound of jackals gathering".

Wet_Boots
04-27-2007, 07:42 PM
There is a UV-R grade of sch 40 now. Special order, no doubt. Not sure how long it's been around.

CAPT Stream Rotar
04-27-2007, 07:43 PM
you all are ruthless

Mike Leary
04-27-2007, 08:15 PM
There is a UV-R grade of sch 40 now. Special order, no doubt. Not sure how long it's been around.

That's a big 10/4 jackal one.

Remote Pigtails
04-27-2007, 09:10 PM
That was great piggie!!!!!!

Thanks Dana unfortunately he is getting helped so i clearly lost the job. I guess it's spam and cheap beer for supper.

andersa
04-28-2007, 01:15 PM
Here's my "professionally" installed manifold:

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/466/manifoldresrq6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I'm especially grateful for the 1/2" nibble to the leftmost valve...

Mike Leary
04-28-2007, 01:26 PM
Here's my "professionally" installed manifold:

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/466/manifoldresrq6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I'm especially grateful for the 1/2" nibble to the leftmost valve...

Sweet..I like the wire connectors too!

Remote Pigtails
04-28-2007, 04:59 PM
Here's my "professionally" installed manifold:

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/466/manifoldresrq6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I'm especially grateful for the 1/2" nibble to the leftmost valve...

If you understand it that's all that counts.

Mike Leary
04-28-2007, 05:11 PM
The way I look at the pic, Boots could have got five more valves in there!

andersa
04-28-2007, 08:07 PM
The way I look at the pic, Boots could have got five more valves in there!

True (but sad?) :)

If you understand it that's all that counts.

Understand and understand. I understand that squeezing 9 GPM through 1/2" can't be all that great over time.


Lawn/Bruckner beer time!
Drinking Red Hook. Washington State beer. Awesome stuff. Love their IPA!

Remote Pigtails
04-28-2007, 08:10 PM
True (but sad?) :)



Understand and understand. I understand that squeezing 9 GPM through 1/2" can't be all that great over time.


Lawn/Bruckner beer time!
Drinking Red Hook. Washington State beer. Awesome stuff. Love their IPA!

It's happy hour here as well. I'm swigging one at exactly 6:15.

Wet_Boots
04-28-2007, 10:03 PM
I understand that squeezing 9 GPM through 1/2" can't be all that great over time.Don't worry about it. You might be losing a fraction of a psi, but no more. I've fed entire systems from 1/2 inch pipe nipples, and no harm done.

andersa
04-28-2007, 11:01 PM
Don't worry about it. You might be losing a fraction of a psi, but no more. I've fed entire systems from 1/2 inch pipe nipples, and no harm done.

OK. Thanks. I won't.

Remote Pigtails
04-28-2007, 11:10 PM
OK. Thanks. I won't.

Now THAT should make the

Lawn/Bruckner beer time!
Drinking Red Hook. Washington State beer. Awesome stuff. Love their IPA!

Taste Better

irrig8r
04-29-2007, 12:05 AM
That's a big 10/4 jackal one.

I installed a couple of jobs with Brownline brand UV resistant SCH 40 PVC back in the late 80's. Hillside to steep to practically trench. Toro 300 stream rotors on risers and brackets and stakes that came from Brownline too.

Don't know if they exist anymore...

But, couldn't he just add a couple coats of the newer spray paints that are meant for PVC?

irrig8r
04-29-2007, 12:19 AM
Worst manifold and box fit I've come across is 12 Hardie 700 series 3/4" in. in one standard 1419 box.

No picture to share... of course that was back before the days of cheap digital cameras, and my cell phone was a heavy lead-acid batttery Oki in a bag that I could sling over my shoulder... and all calls were $.35/ minute...

The installer used these same valves w/o flow controls for everything from turf to shrubs to drip.

His boss, an landscaper and acquaintance, called me out to see where the leak was because the customer had a $300/month water bill.

There was no leak, just every zone running for 30 minutes 7 days a week...lots of wheel ruts and little brown mushrooms in that sod...:laugh:

I also came across one job where Hardie 100s were installed double decker style... and the bad valve that needed repair was in the bottom layer... we rebuilt the entire manifold with A/s valves above ground per the client's request.

andersa
04-29-2007, 01:32 AM
Now THAT should make the

Lawn/Bruckner beer time!
Drinking Red Hook. Washington State beer. Awesome stuff. Love their IPA!

Taste Better

Nah, I've switched to Scotch.

PurpHaze
04-29-2007, 01:44 AM
I also came across one job where Hardie 100s were installed double decker style... and the bad valve that needed repair was in the bottom layer... we rebuilt the entire manifold with A/s valves above ground per the client's request.

Someone has a pic of a monstrosity that looks more like ponied engines in a tractor pull rig. Maybe they'll find it and post it.

Dirty Water
04-29-2007, 01:52 AM
Someone has a pic of a monstrosity that looks more like ponied engines in a tractor pull rig. Maybe they'll find it and post it.

I searched for 15 minutes yesterday looking for that picture without any luck.

DanaMac
04-29-2007, 09:46 AM
Someone has a pic of a monstrosity that looks more like ponied engines in a tractor pull rig. Maybe they'll find it and post it.

How about this one?

DanaMac
04-29-2007, 09:50 AM
Someone has a pic of a monstrosity that looks more like ponied engines in a tractor pull rig. Maybe they'll find it and post it.

I think you were talking about this one

Remote Pigtails
04-29-2007, 09:54 AM
I think you mare talking about this one

Unbelievable. A DIYer would walk into a supply house with that monstrosity and say "I need one of these".

DanaMac
04-29-2007, 10:01 AM
Unbelievable. A DIYer would walk into a supply house with that monstrosity and say "I need one of these".

I call it the James Bond Backpack Jet Propulsion Manifold. Pretty sweet huh?

Remote Pigtails
04-29-2007, 10:09 AM
I call it the James Bond Backpack Jet Propulsion Manifold. Pretty sweet huh?

I bet if he went to HD with that thing they would try to order one for him at the special order desk.:laugh:

Remote Pigtails
04-29-2007, 10:10 AM
Any chance you'll put that thing on EBAY?

Remote Pigtails
04-29-2007, 10:13 AM
How about this one?

On that one it looks like they set the clock under the over hang. Please tell me that isn't true?

DanaMac
04-29-2007, 10:13 AM
Any chance you'll put that thing on EBAY?

Not one that I have. My supplier has it sitting in the back. I still have to go look at it every few weeks.

DanaMac
04-29-2007, 10:14 AM
No, not the controller. Not sure what it is right now.

Remote Pigtails
04-29-2007, 10:16 AM
Not one that I have. My supplier has it sitting in the back. I still have to go look at it every few weeks.

There is a dog park I go to every year for a couple of days when i drive to Montana. (Chatfield State Park) I may email you for info so I can touch this thing.

PurpHaze
04-29-2007, 12:34 PM
I think you were talking about this one

That's the one Dana. Thanks. It's my favorite alltime SNAFU manifold. :)

PurpHaze
04-29-2007, 12:38 PM
The box under the eve looks like a CATV or telephone junction box.

Dirty Water
04-29-2007, 01:00 PM
I think its a LV lighting transformer.

PurpHaze
04-29-2007, 01:06 PM
Could be. I blew the pic up and it's still hard to tell exactly what it is.

j_nolesfan
04-30-2007, 04:28 PM
Alright, y'all don't laugh too hard. Remember, this is my first manifold or valve box. The pipe that's connected at the exit of the box is just for illustration purposes. I ended up hooking a 1.5" reducer over a 1" pipe at the exit of the valve. When the valve closes on one of my zones (the only functional one so far), I can hear the shockwave bounce through the pipe once or twice but it doesn't seem at all violent, almost like I bumped it with a screwdriver just hard enough to make an audible sound. I don't suppose that qualifies as water hammer, does it? I just want to be sure.


Here's the pic:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/214/478791382_36405ce711.jpg

Cheers,
Jeff

j_nolesfan
04-30-2007, 04:30 PM
Oh, any advice on wiring? Not the how to hook up but on routing? The clock will be on the wall just above the box pretty much.
Thanks again,
Jeff

Dirty Water
04-30-2007, 04:38 PM
Dig back to the wall, run the wiring in 1/2" conduit up to the clock, looks nice that way.

Manifold looks decent (I'm not a fan of prefab manifolds, but whatever), that small amount of hammer you heard is pretty normal with those valves.

Mike Leary
04-30-2007, 05:15 PM
Nice install! I can't see, but I hope you notched the valve box for the piping.
Take duct tape & seal where the pipes come thru...then add either white or
pea gravel to keep all clean, hose off valves & wire..use wire ties to keep
it neat & away from bonnets & solenoids if they need service. IMHO

j_nolesfan
04-30-2007, 05:31 PM
Here are a couple more pictures. Yes, I notched the box. As for prefab, I only used the manifold because it came with the valves, the rain sensor, the pump start relay (I don't need that since the tank handles that task) and the clock. Otherwise, it would have been no big deal to build my own. This just saved me time.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/171/478870638_f751f6a9ba.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/204/478870632_de74ac595d.jpg

Thanks,
Jeff

j_nolesfan
04-30-2007, 05:33 PM
Here are a couple more pictures. Yes, I notched the box. As for prefab, I only used the manifold because it came with the valves, the rain sensor, the pump start relay (I don't need that since the tank handles that task) and the clock. Otherwise, it would have been no big deal to build my own. This just saved me time.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/171/478870638_f751f6a9ba.jpg

On this pic, you can see that it's a five valve manifold. I notched the box so that the 5th is available if I need it. I'll need a different box of course.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/204/478870632_de74ac595d.jpg

Thanks,
Jeff

Mike Leary
04-30-2007, 06:05 PM
Nice...a word of advice, tho, if you think you have a foggy chance of a fifth
valve, nows the time to stub-out outside the valve box with the main & a
"shunt wire" for future, then you don't have to pull that nice box, simply
spot the fifth valve in a 10" round, tho I think Boots could cram the fifth in!

bobw
04-30-2007, 10:13 PM
Looks like a very decent result for a first attempt. I'd hire you with great expectations after seeing that manifold

PurpHaze
04-30-2007, 11:05 PM
Pretty decent job. You learned quickly. :laugh:

j_nolesfan
04-30-2007, 11:26 PM
Looks like a very decent result for a first attempt. I'd hire you with great expectations after seeing that manifold

Thanks for the kind words bobw.

Nice...a word of advice, tho, if you think you have a foggy chance of a fifth
valve, nows the time to stub-out outside the valve box with the main & a
"shunt wire" for future, then you don't have to pull that nice box, simply
spot the fifth valve in a 10" round, tho I think Boots could cram the fifth in!


The more I tune my rotors in the front yard, the more I'm thinking I could almost do my entire yard on three zones if I really wanted to push my luck. So, I doubt I'll ever use the 5th leg. I just couldn't bring myself to cut the thing off completely. Currently, I'm running four RB 5000 heads with number two nozzles and six RB 3500's with number two nozzles and I still have plenty of pressure. In fact, the T at my tank reads 85 PSI while that's all running. I know that's not real "down-stream" pressure since it's even before the manifold but if I were to be dispensing any less water, I think my .5 HP pump would catch up and I'd cycle it off. I'm considering number 3 nozzles for at least two of my 5000 heads for this reason and also because they're a little farther apart than the other two on this zone because my front yard is pie shaped. Even though they don't reach head to head, they are still getting head to head coverage with another rotor so the dry spot would be minimal if it's even noticeable.

I'm excited that the results are well within my hopes and expectations at this point. I wanted to fire up the first zone by itself so that I could add or remove heads from it as needed. I'd done what calculations I could do but I wanted to see it work before I moved ahead with the project. I like a few more heads and the spray zone will be complete. The back yard is all rotors and two rotor nozzle sprays. It should go much quicker. Two weeks should be plenty of time to call it done. I know that sounds like an eternity to you pros but I'm working on this thing one or two hours at a time. I'm lucky to get three hours or more on Saturday or Sunday.
Cheers,
Jeff

Ed G
05-01-2007, 07:42 AM
That IS a nice job!

You have made huge strides for us DIY'ers on this forum!

PurpHaze
05-01-2007, 09:19 AM
The big difference between you guys and other DIYers that come and go here is that you do your homework, are not afraid to ask questions and stick with it even with the cajoling and kidding we can dish out. It's a natural weeding-out process for those that are serious about learning and wanting to DIY and those that want a free ride. Only the dedicated receive their secret decoder rings. :)

j_nolesfan
05-01-2007, 09:31 AM
The big difference between you guys and other DIYers that come and go here is that you do your homework, are not afraid to ask questions and stick with it even with the cajoling and kidding we can dish out. It's a natural weeding-out process for those that are serious about learning and wanting to DIY and those that want a free ride. Only the dedicated receive their secret decoder rings. :)

A decoder ring? It's not going to say ..."Be sure to drink your Ovaltine" is it? :p :cool2:

PurpHaze
05-01-2007, 09:36 AM
The inscription usually reads: "Otter Pops for everyone." :laugh:

Ed G
05-01-2007, 09:39 AM
Thanks Purp. I think I'm blushing (but I did just have a jalapeno popper).

Oh, as you know Florida is experiencing drought conditions.

I had been teasing my neighbors about all the green circles and brown spots in their yard (typical in Florida using PGP's and low water pressure) and my yard was nice and green....

Alas, I came home yesterday and found a 2' x 6' brown spot.

Man, I had to work in that heat for at least thirty seconds to remove a 2000 head and replace it with a 3000.

This MP Rotator system sure is labor intensive :).

Mike Leary
05-01-2007, 12:11 PM
Thanks Purp. I think I'm blushing (but I did just have a jalapeno popper)

Man, I had to work in that heat for at least thirty seconds to remove a 2000 head and replace it with a 3000.

This MP Rotator system sure is labor intensive :).

I did not know they made jalapeno poppers..poppers were around in the sixties.:laugh: Yass, those MPs sure take it out of a man..buck up!

j_nolesfan
05-01-2007, 12:17 PM
Ok, MP is matched precipitation but who makes a 2000 and 3000 head? Is it Rainbird? Just curious...
Jeff

Ed G
05-01-2007, 12:18 PM
here's a recipe for the jalapeno poppers:

http://southernfood.about.com/od/jalapenochilerecipes/r/bl21220b.htm

tasty stuff.

Jeff, I was referring to the MP Rotator heads - look under "products": http://www.mprotator.com/

Mike Leary
05-01-2007, 12:24 PM
Ok, MP is matched precipitation but who makes a 2000 and 3000 head? Is it Rainbird? Just curious...
Jeff

MP is matched precip., also MP Rotators are a stream rotor that retro to
any Rain-Bird type thread. Made by Walla Walla sprinkler co. here in
Washington State. I cannot find a link, but they are very cool & popular.

j_nolesfan
05-01-2007, 12:27 PM
OIC. Yeah, I have two Rainbird rotor sprays in the back yard (or will have). I think the pattern is cool. I could sit and watch a group of them. If it wasn't for the fact that I would have had to lay more pipe for more heads, I would have put them in my front yard.
Jeff

Ed G
05-01-2007, 12:33 PM
and especially perfect for low water pressure - due to the out of control development of Florida!

Mike Leary
05-01-2007, 12:34 PM
I don't know if anyone asked...what kind of backflow prevention do you have
& how and where is it mounted?

j_nolesfan
05-01-2007, 01:11 PM
Right now I don't have backflow prevention but since I'm on a well that is dedicated to irrigation, I don't think it's required.
Jeff

j_nolesfan
05-01-2007, 01:20 PM
Also, my well is really pretty close to the highest point if not the highest point of my system. In every zone there should be more negative pressure than positive pressure when the zone isn't running. I can't imagine a situation that would cause backflow since every zone ends with at least one or two heads significanly lower than the manifold. Significantly = 10"+.

Wet_Boots
05-01-2007, 01:42 PM
Try to allow for the possibility of installing backflow prevention in the future. On flat ground, that would be a PVB, and the pressure cost would be about 5 psi

Mike Leary
05-01-2007, 05:21 PM
Point taken..Boots on as usual, tho. When you say "heads lower then the manifold", does that say you put in heads with low-drain check valves to avoid gravity draining after the cycle?

When I said, "Boots on as usual", I realized a Freudian slip, She only one who
installs in bare feet.

j_nolesfan
05-02-2007, 01:52 PM
When you say "heads lower then the manifold", does that say you put in heads with low-drain check valves to avoid gravity draining after the cycle?

Actually, no. If it becomes a problem (and the only one I can imagine is the water running in a puddle, etc.), I can put heads with check valves in or put check valves in if they're available separately, whichever's more prudent. Is there potential for damage to the heads if the water pushes air in the line created by drain off? I haven't watched specifcally for it but I'm hoping that the heads won't drain if the elevation change isn't too much.
Thanks again,
Jeff

Mike Leary
05-02-2007, 03:10 PM
There is always potential for damage to piping, fittings & valves, I don't like
"slamming" water into partial or empty lines. The other (& as important)
point is the waste of water. Users in areas that freeze have to use air when
winterizing to rid the heads that have low-drain checks. We use all Rain-Bird
SAM heads & Hunter LDCs on Stream Rotors, factory LDCs on I-20s.

j_nolesfan
05-02-2007, 03:17 PM
Other than just changing the head out for a check valve head because it's low, is there best way to check the head for drainage? I mean, it's obvious if there's water puddled around it. What about when the system comes on? Would I hear the air rush out and then the noise of all of the air being pushed out of the head?
Thanks,
Jeff

Mike Leary
05-02-2007, 03:21 PM
The best way is visual..look for "weeping" after the valve shuts down.
On steeper zones, I've seen the weeping continue up the hill as LDCs are
added. With air in the system, those pop-ups sure snap to attention!

PurpHaze
05-02-2007, 11:07 PM
As Mike has already stated you'll hear/see the effects of an empty lateral line and experience a visit from the "water police" (if you have them in your area) for waste of water. The puddling drainage will also damage your landscape in that area since it will constantly be over-watered.

j_nolesfan
05-03-2007, 03:02 PM
I did check and I do have some drainage from the lower heads. So, do I need to replace the heads or is there an anti-siphon valve I can put in line with the head? I would think the valve route would be cheaper and possibly better since replacing the heads now or later would be more expensive every time if they're check valve versions... We're talking about Rainbird 5000 rotors and 1800 sprays.
Thanks again,
Jeff

Mike Leary
05-03-2007, 03:27 PM
Both the 5000 series & the 1800s are available in SAM (seal-a-matic) models.
The guts interchange with the bodies..The SAM will hold up to 7' elevation
change. If you've more drop than that, A Hunter LDC is available, but then the
head has to be dug up & the LDC installed below. The Hunters are pressure
eaters when adjusted beyond 7'..so care must be taken...we've had problems.

PurpHaze
05-03-2007, 11:00 PM
I did check and I do have some drainage from the lower heads. So, do I need to replace the heads or is there an anti-siphon valve I can put in line with the head? I would think the valve route would be cheaper and possibly better since replacing the heads now or later would be more expensive every time if they're check valve versions... We're talking about Rainbird 5000 rotors and 1800 sprays.

Low head drainage for sloped areas is one thing a good designer takes into account when specifying and installing a sprinkler head. All the major manufacturers have SAM/COM/PRX, etc. types of heads.

j_nolesfan
05-04-2007, 10:45 AM
Low head drainage for sloped areas is one thing a good designer takes into account when specifying and installing a sprinkler head.

So you're calling me a bad designer? I'm not a designer per se. I'm just trying to get my own DIY project done and yes, I didn't fully consider the consequences of head drainage. I don't have to worry about the water police. We don't have that here. The only time anyone would be interested in my watering the grass would be if we had rationing and that's very rare. Since I have a well, it doesn't really apply to me anyway. The only reason I'm even slightly concerned is because of potential damage to the low heads. The water puddling probably won't ever be an issue since normally we get rain a couple of times a week through most of the season. So my system probably won't run every time it's scheduled due to the rain delay. Thus, the potential for "too wet too often" related is probably pretty low. Would you agree?

Speaking of a fix, Home Depot sells an inline check valve for about $6. What if I put this check valve in line at the low point of the main line just up stream of the low heads? Shouldn't that stop my heads from weeping? I know there's a PSI penalty but I have pressure to spare anyway. :weightlifter: Even if it made my low heads a little weaker on precip rate and radius, I could easily nozzle up one size or so to compensate. Speaking of nozzles, I'm disappointed that HD doesn't sell nozzles for their rotor heads. I believe the 42SA heads take the same nozzle as the 5000. Can anyone verify?
Thanks again,
Jeff

PurpHaze
05-05-2007, 12:55 AM
So you're calling me a bad designer? I'm not a designer per se. I'm just trying to get my own DIY project done and yes, I didn't fully consider the consequences of head drainage.

LOL... Then why worry about the drainage?

I don't have to worry about the water police. We don't have that here. The only time anyone would be interested in my watering the grass would be if we had rationing and that's very rare. Since I have a well, it doesn't really apply to me anyway.

Bet a lot of folks south of you thought the same thing before this year.

The only reason I'm even slightly concerned is because of potential damage to the low heads.

But aren't they cheap enough to replace?

The water puddling probably won't ever be an issue since normally we get rain a couple of times a week through most of the season. So my system probably won't run every time it's scheduled due to the rain delay. Thus, the potential for "too wet too often" related is probably pretty low. Would you agree?

Your mileage may vary.

Speaking of a fix, Home Depot sells an inline check valve for about $6. What if I put this check valve in line at the low point of the main line just up stream of the low heads? Shouldn't that stop my heads from weeping?

Everything below it will still drain. If wasting water is not an issue with you in north Florida then don't worry about the low head drainage.

j_nolesfan
05-09-2007, 05:48 PM
Thanks for the advice Purp. I guess the only thing I might do is replace a couple of the sprays if they do drain because they're outside my bedroom window. It really depends on how loud they are inside. If they wake the wife up, you know they'll get replaced with SAMs ;)

PurpHaze
05-09-2007, 09:12 PM
You'll prolly be OK... they don't make any sound when draining because they're not under much pressure... maybe 1-2 PSI that they gain from the elevation difference. :)

FIMCO-MEISTER
05-17-2008, 09:48 AM
JNoles ED you now have an ally in your DIY efforts. Irrigation TV just for you guys.

CAPT Stream Rotar
05-17-2008, 09:49 AM
JNoles ED you now have an ally in your DIY efforts. Irrigation TV just for you guys.



OH BOY!!!!!


I heart irrigation HACKTV

Waterit
05-18-2008, 03:02 AM
Right now I don't have backflow prevention but since I'm on a well that is dedicated to irrigation, I don't think it's required.
Jeff

Backflow protection is ALWAYS required!

If you have a submersible, you'll have to use a PVB or DCA; if centrifugal (I hope not with that tank/pressure switch setup) you can use a 4-bottom indexer with a 2-zone cam - pipe the outlets together.

PM me if you have any questions - I'm local to ya.

hoskm01
05-18-2008, 10:40 PM
Backflow protection is ALWAYS required!





WRONG......

Waterit
05-19-2008, 02:36 AM
WRONG......

Don't know what's required in Colorado - backflow is always required here in Florida, whether domestic supply or well water. Some water cos. are even requiring check valves on reclaimed (how can you contaminate THAT?) AND an RPZ on the domestic if reclaimed is used.

AI Inc
05-19-2008, 06:28 AM
Not that way up here either. If well is dedicated for irr only , no backflow protection needed.

FIMCO-MEISTER
05-19-2008, 07:21 AM
You guys realize this is a long dead thread brought back for sarcasm reasons don't you?

AI Inc
05-19-2008, 07:25 AM
You guys realize this is a long dead thread brought back for sarcasm reasons don't you?

Hey if it says irrigation I answer it. Besides framing houses its the only thing I know anything about. I cant even chime in on the beer threads asI even lack knoledge there.

FIMCO-MEISTER
05-19-2008, 07:31 AM
What was the deal with Tom Brady wearing a SF Giants hat at the Celtic game yesterday? Right in the heart of Sox Nation.

AI Inc
05-19-2008, 07:35 AM
What was the deal with Tom Brady wearing a SF Giants hat at the Celtic game yesterday? Right in the heart of Sox Nation.

Big improvement from that yanks hat he was wearing last yr.

johnnyaqua
05-19-2008, 07:42 AM
Your project is not a big deal. This forum is the ultimate in making the simple complicated.Just 90 down, put the valves below ground in the valve box then run the laterals out to your trench line to the different zones.. Good luck.

sunray237
05-20-2008, 11:15 PM
I agree with mike always think ahead, and don't apologize for using prefabed manifolds.
Somethings you should just get off the money and do it right.
All I use is prefabed and I have had great success with them in Georgia, I cannot say how they would holdup somewhere like New York though.
As for the Home Depot stuff, I use it all the time and it holds up just fine.
I just don't know why everyone else has a problem with it, maybe it's the instalation.
I really like the Orbit brand, it's a good system with very good timers.
I know everyone thinks it's crap but sometimes you have to think for yourself and not let yourself be brow beat into submission.
I've repaired to many of these so called professional systems, yea they have the standard stuff you hear about on here and it still breaks. Probably the two things that drives me crazy is badly designed homemade manifolds and thin wall pipe.
I guess I should not say designed because the truth is they are just slammed together ,the only design is to use as little material in the construction as possible.
Speaking of slammed I'm sure I will be!

FIMCO-MEISTER
05-21-2008, 07:49 AM
Once again you guys are hissy fitting over a long dead thread.

Dripit good
05-21-2008, 12:14 PM
Hijacking breaths life into the dead and provides enjoyment. :)

hoskm01
05-21-2008, 09:29 PM
Once again you guys are hissy fitting over a long dead thread.




But I like the hissy fit....




Daddy dont hit me again!