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View Full Version : 2 pumps + Perma Green ride-on???


americanlawn
04-27-2007, 10:22 PM
Has anyone installed a 2nd pump (Shurflo) on their Perma Green ride-on???

We have tried "everything in the book" in order to create more spray volume on our PG units, but with very minimal results.

Currently, we kill dandelions, but that's about it.

Our problem is small-leafed weeds such as clover, chickweed, ground ivy, violets, speedwell, spurge, purslane, knotweed, etc. Our Perma Green units cannot kill them. Heck, even Rugel's plantain is iffy.

Now I am considering using TWO Shurflo pumps on each unit???

Here's the nuts & bolts: We can obviously see the "spittiing" of liquid on dry concrete with out PG units. It shows one-inch spots of dry concrete (no "complete coverage").

I know it does not take a rocket scientist to figure this out.
Heck- even the "labels" call for 'complete coverage'.

I have talked to the Perma Green guys. They "empathize" with me, as they have no solution, and they see a need for improvement.

Reading between the lines....I truly beleive that even Perma Green acknowledges the lack of weed control problem.

Any suggestions? (if you intend to scold me for what my results have been, please do not bother, cuz I know what I hear from my customers).

Bottom line: I need to know if my PG units are worth Ni__er-rigging to make them kill weeds (two pumps). Otherwise........I'm gunna dump 'em and go for something else.

rscvp, Thanks very much.

Nathan Robinson
04-27-2007, 10:25 PM
just mix your herbicide at a higher rate since your spraying in such a low volume. I have used both the perma green ultra and magnum in the past and they worked well. The magnum has a 12 gallon tank so if you were mixing 1 ounce per k you should be mixing 60 ounces of herbicide in that tank. There is a slow speed on that perma green and that will allow you to spray more but will take slightly longer... Are you sure your sprayers are working right?

heritage
04-27-2007, 10:50 PM
Has anyone installed a 2nd pump (Shurflo) on their Perma Green ride-on???

We have tried "everything in the book" in order to create more spray volume on our PG units, but with very minimal results.

Currently, we kill dandelions, but that's about it.

Our problem is small-leafed weeds such as clover, chickweed, ground ivy, violets, speedwell, spurge, purslane, knotweed, etc. Our Perma Green units cannot kill them. Heck, even Rugel's plantain is iffy.

Now I am considering using TWO Shurflo pumps on each unit???

Here's the nuts & bolts: We can obviously see the "spittiing" of liquid on dry concrete with out PG units. It shows one-inch spots of dry concrete (no "complete coverage").

I know it does not take a rocket scientist to figure this out.
Heck- even the "labels" call for 'complete coverage'.

I have talked to the Perma Green guys. They "empathize" with me, as they have no solution, and they see a need for improvement.

Reading between the lines....I truly beleive that even Perma Green acknowledges the lack of weed control problem.

Any suggestions? (if you intend to scold me for what my results have been, please do not bother, cuz I know what I hear from my customers).

Bottom line: I need to know if my PG units are worth Ni__er-rigging to make them kill weeds (two pumps). Otherwise........I'm gunna dump 'em and go for something else.

rscvp, Thanks very much.


Americanlawn,

Try this before you try 2 Pumps, and or give up on your perma green.

www.Rittenhouse.ca Turbo TeeJet Wide Angle Spray Tips. Part # TT11003 (Blue)

I use these with Contact Fungicides with my Centuri, on the Lower Nozzles, and Twist the Nozzle Bodies so they are pointing/spraying about a foot in front of the machene. Many Many more droplets per inch. The only drawback is more/smaller droplets mean a bit more drift Potential. (Don't bother with the Air Induction nozzles as the trade off is less drops per inch, for less drift.) You will also have a pattern about 6-7 feet wide insted of 8-9 feet, so re calibrate. I'm goin' like 28K per 8 gal insted of 32-34K with the stock grey floodjets in high gear.

If you have the Centuri, you also have the nice feature of upper and lower nozzles, and could have the Turbo TeeJets on the top L side for edging against walks and driveways, and then switch to the lower nozzles for the rest.

Give this a try as w/ shipping it's less than $20 total and you will have the nozzles in 2-3 Days.

Happy Spraying,

Pete

americanlawn
04-27-2007, 10:54 PM
Yep......We installed a 1.8 Shurflow too. Seeing a one inch spot with no liquid seems like a "no brainer' to us. Plus.....our customers call and tell us.

Thanks for your help. Our problem is/has been: weeds that do not receive liquid on top of them.

profigala
04-28-2007, 01:04 AM
i just point the nozzles down a slight bit from the recommended angle recalibrate and use a little more overlap and i have since then almost 2 years ago never had a problem getting great control of any weed. With the Magnum spray pattern, overlap is the key, just calibrate properly and it does great. Also, Surge has been a great addition to our weed control program, it has worked extremely well for us.

profigala
04-28-2007, 01:06 AM
Also, i know this was in a different thread, but we make our passes back and fourth and have never had a stripping problem, also makes it easier to overlap properly.

vegomatic40
04-28-2007, 07:49 AM
Limited volume is the reason I dumped my PG Magnum and went with the Lesco HPS (actually bought 2 with the procedes). The HPS doesn't spray but neither did the PG. Simply mixing products "at a higher rate" doesn't sound like a responsible solution to the problem as I tend to stay within the limits of a given label for a product, others may argue that the label is just there for decoration. Many herbicides and practically all fungicides demand a higher volume of diluted spray for adequate coverage/control. Hopefully PG will resolve this issue soon as it appears to be a common complaint with their units. In the mean time, if it becomes necessary to apply the products at a higher volume, I suggest using a skid-sprayer. Re-engineering a machine and hoping for good results could potentially cost me dearly as I'm pretty sure that my customers would not understand this as some kind of excuse.

philk17088
04-28-2007, 12:26 PM
I use surfactant at label rates and coverage is fine.

sclawndr
04-28-2007, 07:54 PM
I think what some of the posts meant about higher rates was that you should be applying at the higher end of the label rate in the spring. Lesco 3 way for instance has a label rate of 1.0 oz to 1.5 oz per thousand SF. The 1.5 rate with a surfactant works very well in my Magnum. Use the lower rate in the summer and fall. And it helps to remember that it's harder to kill weeds in the spring for a number of reasons unrelated to the machine you're using - too much rain, mowed off too quickly, colder temps, etc.

americanlawn
04-29-2007, 07:46 PM
Thanks all. I like Vegomatic40's response the best for my situation.

I also asked our local land grant university, and they agree too.

Very soon, I plan to remove the 1.8 gpm shurflo, and go back to the 1.0 gpm Shurflo that came with the unit (PG Ultra).

Not just one Shurflo pump, but two (one feeding each nozzle).

I don't know if we'll be able to figure it out, but we're gunna give it one hell of a try.

If this works, I'll post on this site.

We always run PG's in high gear. If we had to run in low gear, it would be faster to hand spray properties with expensive non-burning liquid fertilizers plus broadleaf weed controls.
But I do not like the price of liquid Dimension if we're talkin' March through mid May here in the Midwest.

If we can use LESCO's Dimension w/fert (granules) + liquid herbicide out of a ride-on, we're makin' money.

vegomatic40
04-29-2007, 08:39 PM
Let me know if you decide to opt for the skid-sprayer as I can help you avoid costly mistakes in buying the wrong rig for your situation. Costs for pesticides are fairly lateral vs. a ride on spreader/sprayer and doing small, tight areas are incomparable. Sprayed a strip of turf last week (by hand) over 600' long and only 30" wide and thought while spraying it "how much overlap onto the sidewalk would I be doing with a ride-on"? Using products for your N-source such as Umaxx or Uflexx are competitive with slow release granular products with similar if not superior results. Expensive pre-mixed liquids are not necessary.

lawnservice
04-30-2007, 07:23 PM
I have been sayin since 2000, when we got our first PG, that for best RESULTS nothin beats pullin a hose

of course in my early years in the industry we didnt think about IPM, we blanketed lawns 3 times per season. sprayin 4 gals. per 1000sf, now that was weed control


American, we have the very same problems as you. we have done the larger pump to no avail, different tips, no difference.
None of the guys like them (other than the obvious, no walkin)

Buy another PG? dont think so

Buy another make like maybe the Z-spray that everyone on this site seems to like? I've talked to large operators who use ZSprays...not enough overlap or to much overlap, thats what I hear my trusted contacts tellin me

Jason Rose
04-30-2007, 08:27 PM
I'm not contribuiting much with my post, but I bought a PG magnum this year because I was sold on the spread and SPRAY capabilities. Needless to say I'm very dissapointed... Many places I don't even try to use it to spray just because it's too awkward to get it manuvered around, and then the edges and close to beds I can't get at all. Even out in the middle on a large lawn it's very hit and miss. I re-calibrated mine and am using the high speed nozzles with the low gear, plus mixing a little on the strong side, plus using that high dollar Lesco Hawkeye surfactant. I Have tried both 3-way and Momentum FX-2 with poor results.

I ended up taking out the tank sprayer and dragging the hose, which I realized was faster because it actually WORKS.

Now I'm kicking my azz for getting the PG when I could have had the Lesco machine for half the price that would have done the same thing, spread fert, actually maybe better because they do hills better...

americanlawn
04-30-2007, 08:41 PM
Thanks guys......I like the LESCO ride-on, and I know a guy that installed a spray unit on his. He likes it.

I like the LESCO (tset drive only) cuz it has hydrostatic transmission -- very nice. Plus you can adjust the ground speed.

The LESCO does not a short turning radius like the Perma Greens, but the turns seem to be just right for overlapping.

If my 2-pump idea does not work, I think I'll probably buy a LESCO and install a spray unit. We'll see.

Thanks again. American

americanlawn
05-01-2007, 08:59 PM
Good news. We cut off all unneeded hoses, and we ran a hose direct (into a tee) that feeds only the two nozzles (high gear nozzles).

This means we eliminated the ball valves which eliminated the "right angles" that restrict flow.

We put 2 new grey nozzles on too. One was dripping, and it looked fine, but it was bad. We also replaced the 2 little rubber diaphrams (we do this about evry week).

We now have nearly complete coverage on weeds running in high gear.

I'm still considering installing two 1 gpm pumps, but my main guy who runs our PG units says it's not needed now.

We'll see, but for right now....we're really happy with the spray improvement.

indyturf
05-01-2007, 09:57 PM
I'm doing the exact same thing to 2 Centri's I bought last week! ordered the 2gpm fimco yesterday and figured I would never use the lowest volume nozzle's so I took of the top set and just use the lower with the higher volume tips. good to hear how it helped your problem. I havn't even used them yet, I pm'd a few lawnsite members that have Centri's and got a few tip's! thanks guys!

americanlawn
05-01-2007, 10:39 PM
Indy - I personally did not use our "makeover ride-on" today, but my "best guy" says it works great (as of today).

One thing's for sure, the PG units run & spread fine...let's get the spray problem fixed.

I plan to check out his PG Ultra tomorrow. Then I will know whether to install two 1.0 gpm pumps or not. We'll see.

I don't care if we need to refill the PG spray tank every 15,000 square feet. Just so the weeds get killed.

Thanks, American.