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View Full Version : 2 zones on 1 pipe


bobw
04-28-2007, 07:42 PM
I've got a bit of a head scratcher that I'd throw out to you all.

I went to do an estimate for a woman a couple of days ago. The front yard is elevated and surrounded by concrete and block retaining walls. When whoever built this, they tucked a 3/4" poly line through the back wall and down to "ground" level.

Now the front yard is fair enough sized and is part grass and part shrub beds. I explained to the homeowner that I would normally like to have two zones for this, one for the lawn and one for the beds, but because we only have one line, and we're not about to rip the walls apart, we'd be stuck with one zone.

So... long story short, she wants me to do the install, but she said one of the other companies she'd called told her that they could do the front with two zones, no problem and that they'd pull lines through the 3/4" poly. So, she figures I should be able to get two lines to the front.

What do you think this company plans to do to get two zones up there? You sure as heck can't fit 2 1/2" lines through a 3/4 line, in fact, I doubt you could even fit 1 up there and a control wire and have two zones on 1/2" lines.

I'm completely stumped by what this company thinks they can do. So... what do you think their plan is?:confused:

BTW.. I think that I'm going to tell this person to go with somebody else regardless... her yard is a PITA to do, and I'm virtually booked out for the season anyway, so I won't really be losing any revenue....

Dirty Water
04-28-2007, 07:55 PM
Convert the 3/4" line to mainline and run control wire?

ed2hess
04-28-2007, 08:23 PM
Simply go under the wall.....we went under 5 walls on one job we just finished, especially since the poly is there and if it is embedded in the wall drill a bigger hole with Home Depot rental tool.

bobw
04-28-2007, 09:43 PM
Convert the 3/4" line to mainline and run control wire?

That would be my initial thought, but how are they getting the control wire up there?

bobw
04-28-2007, 09:44 PM
Simply go under the wall.....we went under 5 walls on one job we just finished, especially since the poly is there and if it is embedded in the wall drill a bigger hole with Home Depot rental tool.

The poly runs under the wall and comes up on the raised area. There is about 5 feet of height difference involved.

bobw
04-28-2007, 09:49 PM
In reflection, I've had a couple of thoughts, but none that seem reasonable...

1) Find the low end of the pipe and couple a fresh piece on, tape a control wire to it. Use the original pipe to pull the new pipe in place along with the control wire. This would leave you a 3/4" pipe and wire at the top. I ruled this out because they way the original is looped in, and the 5' of dirt adding weight, makes it seem very unlikely that you would have the strength to pull it through and that the pipe would hold against the tension

2) Find an indexing valve and use that as a cheater way to get 2 zones on top. I don't know if anyone would be able to find an indexing valve around here. The only one I've ever seen was in a thread on this site.

3) Pull 1/2" poly and control wire through the 3/4" line and build out the zones on a very limited amount of water. I don't know if a 1/2" poly line will fit INSIDE a 3/4" line....

lets keep the ideas coming... it is a very intriguing problem and I'm curious to see what others' thought processes are on it.

Dirty Water
04-28-2007, 10:05 PM
Use two nelson Solo Rains, or be more creative with the control wire.

Run it under eaves, through basements, whatever it takes.

Wet_Boots
04-28-2007, 10:11 PM
There is a variation on the indexing valve that's known as a 'toggle valve' - those would work on a single line, and no wires required.

CAPT Stream Rotar
04-28-2007, 10:35 PM
battery operated valve?

Remote Pigtails
04-28-2007, 11:20 PM
In reflection, I've had a couple of thoughts, but none that seem reasonable...


2) Find an indexing valve and use that as a cheater way to get 2 zones on top. I don't know if anyone would be able to find an indexing valve around here. The only one I've ever seen was in a thread on this site.

lets keep the ideas coming... it is a very intriguing problem and I'm curious to see what others' thought processes are on it.

This may be one of the few times an indexing valve is a good idea. I strongly doubt your competitor has thought of this. Also it would defeat the bed/grass zoning advantage since both zones would have to run the same program. He may not have figured out how he is going to do it either and plans to cross that bridge when he gets to it.

PurpHaze
04-29-2007, 01:35 AM
I'm with Jon... Convert the 3/4" line to a supply line, set two valves off of it and install a battery operated controller. However... I'm not keen on Solorains because of their height.

Mike Leary
04-29-2007, 01:39 PM
I'm with Jon... Convert the 3/4" line to a supply line, set two valves off of it and install a battery operated controller. However... I'm not keen on Solorains because of their height.

We've had to do that same thing where spare wire was not added. What's
that thing "the doubler"? Solorains work good, pricey,,they are tall. We've
added "Unik" battery-operated modules, but that really gets spendy when
you have to buy their programmer. If a lot of that happens in your market,
the "unik" (Rain-Bird) is cool stuff....everything a medium clock has. Lots
of valves won't take latching solenoids either. The age old "why did'nt they
extend the mainline & give us spare wire!"

Remote Pigtails
04-29-2007, 01:56 PM
We've had to do that same thing where spare wire was not added. What's
that thing "the doubler"? Solorains work good, pricey,,they are tall. We've
added "Unik" battery-operated modules, but that really gets spendy when
you have to buy their programmer. If a lot of that happens in your market,
the "unik" (Rain-Bird) is cool stuff....everything a medium clock has. Lots
of valves won't take latching solenoids either. The age old "why did'nt they
extend the mainline & give us spare wire!"

I've used uniks. They work well. My last need for a battery operated timer I used the Hunter. Used it on a Dv-100 latching solenoid and it seems okay. Instead of a doubler I'd use the Add A Zone. I've not had one fail yet and the zones stay the same in the clock.

Mike Leary
04-29-2007, 02:00 PM
I've used uniks. They work well. My last need for a battery operated timer I used the Hunter. Used it on a Dv-100 latching solenoid and it seems okay. Instead of a doubler I'd use the Add A Zone. I've not had one fail yet and the zones stay the same in the clock.

O.K., I'll bite.."add a zone"..link please?

Remote Pigtails
04-29-2007, 02:06 PM
www.thesource-online.com

should be R co parts

Remote Pigtails
04-29-2007, 02:09 PM
http://www.thesource-online.com/diagnostics.htm

more accurate

Mike Leary
04-29-2007, 02:11 PM
Thanks 'tails for the info, I'll take a peek.

Remote Pigtails
04-29-2007, 02:17 PM
As a matter of fact Mike I've got a reroute job for tree that is being planted. I think the ball of this thing is 15' across. Using a huge crane to place it. Anyway I'm going to get the moisture meter you recommended. (I'm thinking for a tree I'll need a 24 or 36" one) Leave it in the ball. Use an Add A Zone to put in a new valve to drip water this tree only. I figure for what they are paying for this tree (has to be at least 6 figures) spending an extra 400 dollars is going to be a sound investment and it allows me to try out the moisture meter.

Mike Leary
04-29-2007, 02:28 PM
That works great for establishment, use as many rings as you need to get to
the edge of the root ball &/or drip line. 1' centers on those drip rings. I have
installed dedicated spray zones for trees when they are in turf. You can't
leave the probe in the soil, will eat the battery!

Remote Pigtails
04-29-2007, 02:32 PM
That works great for establishment, use as many rings as you need to get to
the edge of the root ball &/or drip line. 1' centers on those drip rings. I have
installed dedicated spray zones for trees when they are in turf. You can't
leave the probe in the soil, will eat the battery!

I'll do it exactly that way. I'm going to place the moisture meter order today. Any advantage having a longer probe for the tree or should i just get the 12" one?

Mike Leary
04-29-2007, 02:36 PM
I'll do it exactly that way. I'm going to place the moisture meter order today. Any advantage having a longer probe for the tree or should i just get the 12" one?

How big (deep) is the root ball? You gotta get to the bottom! Have you dealt
with Forestry Suppliers? They have neat catalogs.

Remote Pigtails
04-29-2007, 02:47 PM
How big (deep) is the root ball? You gotta get to the bottom! Have you dealt
with Forestry Suppliers? They have neat catalogs.

This ball is so deep they hit the sewer line of the house digging the hole. 6' or so. The original sewer line was cast iron installed in 1949. they are just patching the damage and planting this right on top. I'd personally replace that whole sewer line or move the tree but not my decision to make. This is in a mansion homes old money part of Dallas. This may not be a good site to learn the moisture meter but I am going to stick with the netafim on 1' spacing. I'll read the meter and try to figure the run time nescessary to complete saturate the ball

Mike Leary
04-29-2007, 02:50 PM
That's on...the flow charts with Netafim should be of some help too, Netafim
makes a drip tube with low-drain check valves built in.