Concrete Driveway Demo

[cddva]

What are your preferred "weapons of choice" for demoing a concrete driveway? Does anybody own/rent a breaker attachment for this type work? Will a Kubota L39 backhoe with hyd. thumb handle this? What is the right technique when using a backhoe/mini-ex for this work?

[ksss]

This is my method. I break up the driveway with a skid steer mounted Okada 750 hammer. I then remove the concrete with the thumb equipped mini ex. If required to remove material under concrete to make room for crushed roadbase than I do that using a 50 inch clean out bucket. Lay in gravel base and compact to grade. What I like about the mini ex is you don't tear up the subbase as you would using a skid steer.

[Gravel Rat]

If the driveway doesn't have any rebar or mesh in it you get a edge started with a excavator it will break up easy. If you don't want to rent a breaker use a diamond blade saw cut it into sections and use a skid steer with forks or a excavator with a thumb start removing sections.

The other option is find a big burly young kid with a 20lb sledge hammer it busts up concrete pretty fast :laugh:

If the driveway has mesh in it then it makes it tough removing it you need a saw with a carbon blade to cut the steel. The bigger the chunks you remove less clean up you have to do.

[cddva]

Thanks for your replies. I was that kid with the 20lb sledge when I was in high school working Summers for my neighbor (contractor)! I'm sure I can't pull that off anymore, thats why we buy equipment right?! I may be highjacking my own thread somewhat, but here goes..............I'm trying to estimate a job to demo about 40' of concrete runner's (not a full driveway) and 20' of concrete walkway along with removing a galvanized pipe culvert with brick headwalls and leaving an open ditch (county has installed a new culvert at new driveway location). Then I will cut/grade new driveway from that new culvert to the back of the house (140' x 10' wide (its a clear area)). I may follow the advice given in another post for how to gravel a new driveway (fabric, large stone followed by 21A). I've got quotes on renting a 10K dump trailer ($110/day) and breaker attachment ($150/day). If I go and add a compactor to the rental list I think I may be pricing myself out of the job (or really cutting my profit margin). Do you guys typically rent equipment even on smaller jobs and just pass on the cost's? What would be your ballpark estimate for a job like this? I'd like to get this work in an effort to expand my horizons but I don't want to work too cheap either. I know the best answer is get equipped (dump truck, cdl, lots of attachments - can't quite afford all that). Thanks.

[mverick]

Thanks for your replies. I was that kid with the 20lb sledge when I was in high school working Summers for my neighbor (contractor)! I'm sure I can't pull that off anymore, thats why we buy equipment right?! I may be highjacking my own thread somewhat, but here goes..............I'm trying to estimate a job to demo about 40' of concrete runner's (not a full driveway) and 20' of concrete walkway along with removing a galvanized pipe culvert with brick headwalls and leaving an open ditch (county has installed a new culvert at new driveway location). Then I will cut/grade new driveway from that new culvert to the back of the house (140' x 10' wide (its a clear area)). I may follow the advice given in another post for how to gravel a new driveway (fabric, large stone followed by 21A). I've got quotes on renting a 10K dump trailer ($110/day) and breaker attachment ($150/day). If I go and add a compactor to the rental list I think I may be pricing myself out of the job (or really cutting my profit margin). Do you guys typically rent equipment even on smaller jobs and just pass on the cost's? What would be your ballpark estimate for a job like this? I'd like to get this work in an effort to expand my horizons but I don't want to work too cheap either. I know the best answer is get equipped (dump truck, cdl, lots of attachments - can't quite afford all that). Thanks.

For drives everyone is right. But, I usually just use a track cat. Grab a edge lift and drop. It will break. If it doesn't , throw a couple chunks of concrete under it to break off of.

I own a mini x but it's to small I think for this. Takeuchi 15.

I really don't know about that 10k dump trailer though. You'll be making a lot of trips. I'd be looking at a roll off or 2. And, I own a 14k Dump trailer. I wouldn't use it.

I always charge what I rent the equipment for. I have to get something back for what I bought.

If it's just runners and side walk you won't need a breaker.

For a drive that long get the compactor and forget the breaker.

[dozerman21]

Like mverick said, everyone is right. There are many different good ways to tear out concrete. We use our 580E backhoe. We break it up with the hoe and load it in the dump. It's pretty effecient and the loader cleans up the area when we're finished.

[Dirt Digger2]

how big is the driveway?...we would use our 120cfm (i think) compressor and 1 or 2 hammers on it or we would just break it up with the backhoe bucket if it wasn't all that thick.

you would want to double check on the roll off container, a lot of places take concrete somewhere else besides the landfill and the waste company might not want to haul rock...also you would be hard pressed finding a trucking company willing to let you dump concrete chucks in their trucks with a skidloader as oppsed to setting them in there with a backhoe/trackhoe

[Gravel Rat]

If its concrete strips they are easier to bust up because you can get on either side of them with a machine. Any tough sections a 90lb electric jackhammer can do the rest. You could rent a pneumatic (sp) jackhammer but then you need to rent a compressor.

I don't swing sledge hammers either my back can't take it. The local concrete contractor has a big guy that works for them he swings a 20lb sledge like nothing :laugh:

I noticed you said your renting a dump trailer for 110 a day isn't it cheaper to have a rolloff bin dumped in the yard and you load it up they haul it way. Old bricks and busted up concrete can be buried if they have a hole to fill or a contractor in the area that may want to take some free fill.

[Kepple Services]

Man, you all do it the hard way. I just use my T300 with a set of pallet forks. I just removed, and hauled, a 1300 square foot driveway in 5 hours total. I just lift sections with the forks, and if the chunk is to large i then either drop it, or use a sledge to break off a section. Stack the pieces on top of each other and then load them into my truck. breaking them up just makes lots of little chunks to pick up/clean up.

[RockSet N' Grade]

All these ways are good. I personally like to pick up big pieces with the ex and gently place them in the dump truck. Watch out for rebar in the stoops by the garage doors........you can pull that up and find you have also removed a door and jamb in the process (wish I had read about that one in a book instead of learning it through experience)........

[gammon landscaping]

forks and big peices, guys sorry but mini ex are not always the answer. the trick to doing it quick is not making alot of little crap to deal with. little crap means gloves and shovels

[ksss]

I would agree that smashing it into small pieces is not a good use of time. If the pad is not cracked up naturally I will break the slab into pieces that the mini ex can handle. The problem with using forks is you can't secure the load, you cant control the size of concrete your removing. This can cause the concrete to hang up in the truck and typically broken down smaller means you can get more on the truck. The other issue is staying off the subbase as much as possible. The more spinning and turning that is done the more compaction you have to do or should do. A CTL would be better in this situation. I think a mini ex is great for concrete removal. I have removed a lot of concrete with just a grapple bucket on a skid steer. It is never as clean as when using an excavator. the other issue is typically we remove the existing 3-4 inches of subbase and add gravel. The small pieces get thrown in the truck mechanically.

[Swanman]

Mini ex with grapple bucket and thumb. Grab a nice size piece of slab, blade down and pull slab up, concrete breaks at blade. Pick up piece of concrete and toss in dump truck, on to next piece. No small hammer chips and only handle piece once. As far as mesh goes, 90% of removal jobs with mesh is that the mesh is at the bottom of the slab, worthless and breaks apart because its rusted to crap. Very few concrete guys get the mesh suspended where it belongs. Off topic here but, we don't see many tear outs that have #4 rebar, suspended properly in the slab, a method that is far superior to a long lasting driveway.

[Gravel Rat]

A excavator with a thumb will pretty well do a cleaner job because you have more control. Loading the truck is easier you don't end up with big dents in the floor of the dump box :laugh:

Its what ever your used to myself I'am more used to running excavator and using the bucket and hydraulic thumb is part of running the machine.

[Kepple Services]

I guess one of the differences here is that there is no sub base under driveways, just natural dirt. There is also no reinforcement in the drives. We dont have to deal with freeze thaw situations like notherners do. I have only used 2 things to remove drives, the forks and a bucket if it really broken up. then just go back and regrade the drive before i leave. I have been working with these guys for about a year and a half now. I have removed the driveway and at the same time they started to reformed it and poured it in the same day if it was a straight replacement with no aproach. I will agree the mini ex is a good tool to do concrete removal with, but I can see picking up a piece of concrete and walking it down the drive with the ex. Backing the truck up to the ex would just mean more movement on the truck, so that entails getting out of the machine, moving truck, back in machine, load some, move truck again.. PITA... Ill stick with the track loader and leave the mini ex home.

[mverick]

I have only seen 2 driveways that had a rock base. And none with steel. In 10 years. And, we have a lot of freeze thaw cycles in the St. Louis area. It's a hard sell to convince people to pay extra for a 4 in deeper dig and the 4in of rock. But, I always tell them about the freeze thaw. Most here just put it on dirt and fill in low spots with rock.

[Gravel Rat]

Most old concrete driveways here have no steel in them allot of them were mixed by hand so the concrete usually isn't that strong. It breaks up pretty easily. The new driveways now are built much stronger because redimix is used and kitty hair is added for strength. Depending on how hard the ground is its scraped level with a backhoe and if its too hard then some new 3/4 road mulch is brought in and packed in the low spots and the driveway is done over the leveled surface.