Serious customer dilemma...

[topsites]

I'm posting this here because I'm at a loss for answer like a noob...

Later last fall (mid-oct or so, before leaves fell) I was asked to prune a crepe myrtle. The customer always wants this thing selectively trimmed but it was way overgrown by the house and I took them way back (way back, about a foot above ground). And, they did not survive.

Proper pruning methods aside, I just read up on this article after article, about the only thing where we disagree is once we get into arboristic methods, and if the customer were to pay me as an arborist that might be ok... Otherwise, selective pruning is for the birds and those who have no problem paying for it, because it takes a lot longer and I don't selectively prune with no dang hedge trimmers.

First, I'm out the $100 fee for doing it and it was a whole trailer load hauled to boot, as the customer never paid because we agreed that was the best way. Now, come late spring, the customer is asking what am I going to do about replacing it?

Please don't tell me the quick answer because I would've shot that one off already, I'm not in the mood to lose another customer yet at the same rate I am at a crossroads where I must make a choice of that or else, I can not afford to replace the plants (2) on top of free pruning.

I am wondering if there's a way to resolve this dilemma without further confrontation or do I just have to say 'I am sorry but there was no charge for the pruning and beyond that I can not go.' , they've been with me since day 1 and unfortunately still expect a lot for nothing, I've tried to explain things have changed but that is always such a waste of time. I guess it might boil down to doing the math and seeing which would be cheaper but I am certain the loss of the customer would be, still I don't feel like losing another one hence again why I ask.

[fiveoboy01]

See if she'd let you pay for replacement minus your labor.

Don't know how far that would get you though. It's apparent that they're dead because you did something wrong, therefore, you should likely eat the cost of the pruning and replacement.

[topsites]

See if she'd let you pay for replacement minus your labor.

Don't know how far that would get you though. It's apparent that they're dead because you did something wrong, therefore, you should likely eat the cost of the pruning and replacement.

Well ok, if you take your car to Maaco to get it painted and they totally foul it up, they'll likely take care of it at no charge (and even then to a point) but assume they so totally fouled it up.
Assume also, when you take your car to Maaco, that you are ready to spend around $3000 for the paint job.

But what if you take your car someplace else, because you're only willing to spend 1000, what then?

You get what you pay for is my attitude.
It was, however, the absolute last time I ever did something for nothing.

[sheshovel]

So, let me get this straight. After discussing how she wanted her shrubs pruned,
Not selectively but correctly would be the word to use for what she wanted done. You went ahead and whacked them down to nothing and killed them.
Then you had to load all the stuff she did not want you to prune off in the first place and haul it off. She did not want to pay for that and also she did not want to pay for replacement shrubs that you killed by cutting them back too far (not pruning) her shrubs and has asked you to replace them.
If this is correct then of course you should reach deep into your pockets and buy her new shrubs and plant them for her free as well.
I don't see where she has asked you anything but for you to be fair with her.
If you are willing to loose a good client over replacement and planting of two shrubs that she would otherwise still have by now if not for your actions, then
go for it. But you are at fault here and should make it right by her.

[caslong]

Just from my knowledge of Crape Myrtles, I would have to say, you need to replace the them.

Here is Why.
1. You whacked them off to the ground. The customer just wanted light pruning.

2. You did it at the completely at the wrong time of year. It should have been done in late, late winter or early spring. By taking that much off, it probably cause the plant not to go dormant. The winter freezes probably killed it.

3. At the most, you should have left at least 3 1/2 to 4 feet above the ground.

All due respect, but it looks like you had no idea what you were doing. You will lose more money if the clients decides to bad mouth you around town,

[Vikings]

You gotta replace it and keep the customer and the next time they ask for pruning just laugh it off and say, 'whoa! remember what happened last time'

The only problem I can see (besides not knowing how much these things cost) is if you have aggravated them to the point you will lose the customer whether you replace them or not. In that case well I'm not sure what I would do.

What do they cost? If young ones are cheap, throw in some flowers to to really spruce it up and maybe they will give you some money.

For sure, if someone chopped down my tree I would expect them to own up and replace. If I had to ask them over and over and get a bad attitude from them, I would dump them regardless.

[RHill]

I would replace the two shrubs. If she has been a good customer from the beginning, I think your solution would be easy. That will help you gain goodwill. If you simply drop her as a customer and leave with hard feelings she will probably bad mouth you to everyone she knows. I think keeping her happy will pay off in the long.

[PerfectEarth]

Just from my knowledge of Crape Myrtles, I would have to say, you need to replace the them.

Here is Why.
1. You whacked them off to the ground. The customer just wanted light pruning.

2. You did it at the completely at the wrong time of year. It should have been done in late, late winter or early spring. By taking that much off, it probably cause the plant not to go dormant. The winter freezes probably killed it.

3. At the most, you should have left at least 3 1/2 to 4 feet above the ground.

All due respect, but it looks like you had no idea what you were doing. You will lose more money if the clients decides to bad mouth you around town,


This Guy has it dead on. Prune a crape myrtle to a nub in fall??? :nono:
You owe her a nice one. It's only about 90$ for a nice Nanchez or something...

[chris638]

I agree. If you couldn't do a job right, then why would you take it in the first place. You are 100% in the wrong. Don't say that you get what you pay for, especially when you are talking about yourself. You are basically downgrading your own work. In one way I don't mind what you have done, because I am getting at least one new customer a day with stories just like this. You are a professional. Start acting like one by either A.) Take responsiblity for your action and replace the plant or B.) Don't take jobs that are over your head.

[topsites]

Ok, fair enough, I understand.

It ain't about this and that and the other, it's about cheapness.
Nothing was discussed concerning selective pruning, it's always ohhhh only take off about uhmmmm (hem-haw-see-saw gimme gimme money NOnonono not that much) nonsense, the dang things had been let go in this fashion for 5 years, only take off a few inches, you know.

Maybe you're right, maybe I should've let them completely engulf the power line, and the heck with the big sticks getting all bent up against the house, too.

As for knowing how to do it, fine, but then hire an arborist who knows this stuff because once I get studied up they best be prepared to pay upwards of a grand to have it done properly, you know, doctor's rates. That's for knowing the specifics about each of the species because each is different, and there are enough species to fill page after page with it, that or hire another idiot and expect to get complete FULL service for 2-5 times less than what a true specialist would charge, right?

But I'll buy her the plants, carry the account through the season and sayonara.
Done learned my lesson, don't touch nothing.

[topsites]

Because it doesn't end there...

They want their irrigated fertilized lawn cut every 12 days.
Yeah, the grass needed cutting today, but oh no, wait 2 more days, that's what I got to hear.
That's other than the bushes, I was willing to deal with the cut dilemma.

But I got my answer, matter of fact I'll go out Thursday, plant the stupid things, cut the grass and leave a final bill with a 4-page letter listing every last Lco in the area by name and number (there's over 200 of them), and ONLY name and number, no other words.

They'll get their plants, final grass cut, too.
Normal price, even if I have to run over it 4-6 times.
And yes, it will look good, never use company equipment or labor to get back at a customer.

Heck, why even leave a bill?

[M&SLawnCare]

Any way you cut it, no matter what the customer did or didn't do or how big of a pita or nice person they are, you made the mistake. They asked you for a service and you agreed to do it (had they told you to use the trimmers and just lop them all off, even after you warned them, then its another story). By agreeing its implied that you understand the nature of said service and are capable of doing it, wether its your forte or not. If its not your forte, and you don't know how to do it, then its your responsibility to inform the customer and decline the job, or learn how to do it properly before hand.

Who cares what is the most profitable outcome or wether or not you can keep the customer. This isn't something that will break your bankroll to fix. Do what is right and show some integrity, replace them free of charge, apologize, and maybe even throw in a free mowing. You may or may not keep the client, but at least you'll do what is right, and in the long run that willonly help you. Everyone makes mistakes, its how you handle them that shows what type of person you are, or what type of business you run.

Personally if i was in the neighborhood and looking for lawn care/already one of your customers, and i hear you replaced them free, willingly without grumbling and complaining about it, and even offered an extra service free to make up for it, my impression of you and your business would only improve. I'd probably hire you because of that. If i heard that this happened to someone else, the lco stiffed her on it, and then even tried to blame the customer, I'd probably fire him on the spot just because of it. Good work and integrity is what sets the professionals apart from the border jumpers or the local kid doing it for 10$.

Maybe thinks work differently where i live, but that is my opinion on the matter.

[sheshovel]

Ok, fair enough, I understand.

It ain't about this and that and the other, it's about cheapness.
Nothing was discussed concerning selective pruning, it's always ohhhh only take off about uhmmmm (hem-haw-see-saw gimme gimme money NOnonono not that much) nonsense, the dang things had been let go in this fashion for 5 years, only take off a few inches, you know.

No wrong, that is NOT selective pruning, it is basic pruning.

Maybe you're right, maybe I should've let them completely engulf the power line, and the heck with the big sticks getting all bent up against the house, too.
Not what I said at all, of course you cut back the long stems that are interfering with things but never all the way to the ground...unless they are no longer producing flowers.

As for knowing how to do it, fine, but then hire an arborist who knows this stuff because once I get studied up they best be prepared to pay upwards of a grand to have it done properly, you know, doctor's rates. That's for knowing the specifics about each of the species because each is different, and there are enough species to fill page after page with it, that or hire another idiot and expect to get complete FULL service for 2-5 times less than what a true specialist would charge, right?

Oh, com'on now, such dramatics!
The truth is, ALL crape myrtles bloom on new wood and should be pruned in winter or early spring. Every species is not different so I don't know what you were reading but it was bad info. There are small shrubby forms and large shrub/tree forms that is the only difference in pruning methods for crapes.
On small shrubby forms, deadhead spent flower clusters and thin out small twiggy growth. If you need to maintain compactness and avoid a leggy look then these can be cut ALMOST to the ground in spring.
Large shrub/tree forms (her crepes): Shorten branches by 1 or 1&1/2 in spring if you want to limit their size.
That is basic info available to anyone bothering to "study" up about pruning crepes. So obviously you did not study up on this subject at all. No reason for extra charge here, no arborist.

But I'll buy her the plants, carry the account through the season and sayonara.
Done learned my lesson, don't touch nothing.

Look I am not slamming you. Everyone makes mistakes. However the ones who realize and who will take responsibility for their mistakes and do the right thing to correct them are the ones who learn from them.
By getting mad and blaming this on the client because of "cheapness" you are copping out.

[topsites]

Ok, I'm glad I slept on this but am still not going exactly the route everyone else would like me to...
If for no other reason than I don't compromise my business' financial integrity like that, there isn't a drop of water in the bilges and I'll be if I'm grabbing another bucket to go bail myself out when the jokers who will sink my ship are ALWAYS first in line for the lifeboats.

Here's another example:
I recently had 4 tires mounted and balanced on my car, for $50 total.
Well see, unfortunately the guy didn't balance them right...

Now ALL of you would've ran back to the guy and made him balance them right but you are wrong because for $50 you get what you pay for. Way I see things, you can either take it to a pro shop and pay the normal $80 - $100 to have it done right or you deal with the consequences. In my case, I just re-balanced all 4 myself (yes, I have a dynamic wheel balancer) and that fixes it because I can NOT expect the same guaranteed results when I'm already getting at least 60% off, it just doesn't work like that.
This isn't Merchant's Tire & Auto, see?
That's because Merchant's is a corporation who can afford to lose billions after billions in order to retain the customer. Then one day, ooops, have to declare bankruptcy... Why? Mostly due to lack of foresight, mostly because the arse is so far detached from the head in a big corporation that it can't see the forest for the trees.
To a corporation the customer is always right, but to small business nothing could be further from the truth.
Treat a customer like the big guys do and either you're not paying taxes, you live like a poor boy and work like a slave, or there's something you're not telling because that kind of compromise simply is not possible.

First, I'm going to cut the grass for some time and see how that works out, then I'll offer to spring for the labor if they'll buy the bushes, once that comes up again.

That's the end of it, good luck to all of you who'd bend over backwards just to keep the customer happy, how y'all keep from sinking anyway?

And btw, severe pruning doesn't hurt a healthy crepe myrtle, and if it does then only an arborist would know that, and an arborist is a professional (read: Schooling - college) whereas most if not all of us are not!

[Pro-Scapes]

buy her a 7gal crepe... 22 bucks.. You cut it too far... wrong time of year. As a proffesional its your job to educate your clients about proper care.

You been around long enough to know when to prune. I always do crepes around feb. I got out of just chopping the tops off like so many people ask for. If you selectivly prune them (with some quality lopers oand felcos it doesnt take that long) the tree will come in much more full and not have as many "knuckles" bulging out like some old man with arthritis

I do get clients request they get pruned as soon as they go dormant. I generally dont do it but for a few clients with well established trees we have done it with zero probs... then again im alot further south.

[caslong]

Ok, I'm glad I slept on this but am still not going exactly the route everyone else would like me to...
If for no other reason than I don't compromise my business' financial integrity like that, there isn't a drop of water in the bilges and I'll be if I'm grabbing another bucket to go bail myself out when the jokers who will sink your ship are ALWAYS first in line for the lifeboats.

Here's another example:
I recently had 4 tires mounted and balanced on my car, for $50 total.
Well see, unfortunately the guy didn't balance them right...

This isn't Merchant's Tire & Auto, see?

First, I'm going to cut the grass for some time and see how that works out, then I'll offer to spring foNow ALL of you would've ran back to the guy and made him balance them right but you are wrong because for $50 you get what you pay for. Way I see things, you can either take it to a pro shop and pay the normal $80 - $100 to have it done right or you deal with the consequences. In my case, I just re-balanced all 4 myself (yes, I have a dynamic wheel balancer) and that fixes it because I can NOT expect the same guaranteed results when I'm already getting at least 40% off, it just doesn't work like that.
r the labor if they'll buy the bushes, once that comes up again.

That's the end of it, good luck to all of you who'd bend over backwards just to keep the customer happy, how y'all keep from sinking anyway?

And btw, severe pruning doesn't hurt a healthy crepe myrtle.


Severe pruning a crepe myrtle with will not hurt them, if it is done at the right time of year. Prune one at the wrong time of year, it will kill them.

As far as bending over backwards, it sounds like to me you let these people run all over you for a long time. You should have set your boundaries a long time ago. I understand about a PITA customer, I have many. But, if I screwed something up as bad as you did, I would fix it. Regardless how big of a PITA they are. That is just good business in my book.

The guy that balanced your tires for $50. If he did not tighten the lug nuts good and your wheel feel off, caused you to wreck and total your truck. I bet you would want him to pay for it. That is what you did to their crepe myrtle. You killed it. Not the customers attitude, cheapness, or not pruning it for 5 years. You killed it. You killed it by your lack of knowledge or just wanting to be a PITA yourself.

[topsites]

buy her a 7gal crepe... 22 bucks.. You cut it too far... wrong time of year. As a proffesional its your job to educate your clients about proper care.

Ok, that I can handle, but professionals we're not.

In order to be a professional, your job must be listed as a profession by the state! Yes, so long what you do is listed as a profession, then you are a professional, it really is that simple, it matters little how you dress or carry yourself, either your job is listed as a profession or it isn't. And if it isn't listed, then it's just wishful thinking at best.

An arborist is a professional, as is a horticulturist, and that's as close as it gets because no landscaper / lawn boy was ever listed in the Commonwealth under professions (except maybe a mistake happened once). Nurses are pros, also, but afaik auto mechanics are not, just for examples.
See what I'm saying:
http://www.mass.gov/dpl/home.htm
We're talking about a Board of Registration that regulates this, everyone always throws the word professional around but it's not just lalala stuff, being a true professional goes far beyond what we do. Now what we do might fall under trades, but when they speak of a license I guarantee they are not talking about a business license.

I'm cool because at least you're helping instead of just beating me up, but I say that if you don't hire a pro AND pay their rates, then you take your chances.

But $22 each I can tolerate, I'll likely shop around later today.

You been around long enough to know when to prune. I always do crepes around feb. I got out of just chopping the tops off like so many people ask for. If you selectivly prune them (with some quality lopers oand felcos it doesnt take that long) the tree will come in much more full and not have as many "knuckles" bulging out like some old man with arthritis

Ok, no, I did not know that, thank you.

I do get clients request they get pruned as soon as they go dormant. I generally dont do it but for a few clients with well established trees we have done it with zero probs... then again im alot further south.

Well, same here, never had a problem before so long I don't trim in the worst cold or heat, if it's mild outside I've always considered it safe.
chit happens, thanks for your help, I think I got my answer.

[FIRESCOOBY]

Ok, I'm glad I slept on this but am still not going exactly the route everyone else would like me to...
If for no other reason than I don't compromise my business' financial integrity like that, there isn't a drop of water in the bilges and I'll be if I'm grabbing another bucket to go bail myself out when the jokers who will sink my ship are ALWAYS first in line for the lifeboats.

Here's another example:
I recently had 4 tires mounted and balanced on my car, for $50 total.
Well see, unfortunately the guy didn't balance them right...

Now ALL of you would've ran back to the guy and made him balance them right but you are wrong because for $50 you get what you pay for. Way I see things, you can either take it to a pro shop and pay the normal $80 - $100 to have it done right or you deal with the consequences. In my case, I just re-balanced all 4 myself (yes, I have a dynamic wheel balancer) and that fixes it because I can NOT expect the same guaranteed results when I'm already getting at least 60% off, it just doesn't work like that.
This isn't Merchant's Tire & Auto, see?
That's because Merchant's is a corporation who can afford to lose billions after billions in order to retain the customer. Then one day, ooops, have to declare bankruptcy... Why? Mostly due to lack of foresight, mostly because the arse is so far detached from the head in a big corporation that it can't see the forest for the trees.
To a corporation the customer is always right, but to small business nothing could be further from the truth.
Treat a customer like the big guys do and either you're not paying taxes, you live like a poor boy and work like a slave, or there's something you're not telling because that kind of compromise simply is not possible.

First, I'm going to cut the grass for some time and see how that works out, then I'll offer to spring for the labor if they'll buy the bushes, once that comes up again.

That's the end of it, good luck to all of you who'd bend over backwards just to keep the customer happy, how y'all keep from sinking anyway?

And btw, severe pruning doesn't hurt a healthy crepe myrtle, and if it does then only an arborist would know that, and an arborist is a professional (read: Schooling - college) whereas most if not all of us are not!

Topsites...I'm having a hard time seeing your analogy of these situations.

IF I had paid $50 to have 4 tires balanced, and they weren't balanced correctly...OF COURSE I'd be going back. Around here, I can get tires rotated and balanced for $30...but that's beside the point.

A more APPROPRIATE analogy would have been:

You took your vehicle to have the tires balanced, but instead their opinion is that you needed a front end alignment. When doing the front end alignment they thought the frame was warped and put it on a frame machine. While doing this they caused irrepairable damage to the frame rails and basically totalled your vehicle.

To me...THAT is a more appropriate analogy to your pruning fiasco.

Like has been said, YOU ARE responsible for replacement of said crepe's. You can preach about cheapness all day long...but the customer does not dictate you prices do they? If you are doing something to cheaply...only one person to blame and it's not the customer!!

[fiveoboy01]

but professionals we're not

By very definition, we ARE professionals.

pro·fes·sion·al (prə-fěsh'ə-nəl) Pronunciation Key
adj.

Of, relating to, engaged in, or suitable for a profession: lawyers, doctors, and other professional people.
Conforming to the standards of a profession: professional behavior.
Engaging in a given activity as a source of livelihood or as a career: a professional writer.
Performed by persons receiving pay: professional football.
Having or showing great skill; expert: a professional repair job.

n.
A person following a profession, especially a learned profession.
One who earns a living in a given or implied occupation: hired a professional to decorate the house.
A skilled practitioner; an expert.

[EngineeredLawns]

Since you live in Va and are doing over $1000.00 business at each site in a year, you should be required to have a class C contractors license. And some professions like engineers and nurses do get there requirements for their license from education, they are regulated by the licensing board as contractors.

And $50.00 for 4 wheels to be balanced in Richmond, I would expect it to be done correctly since that is going rate in Richmond on the West End.

[PatriotLandscape]

Ok, fair enough, I understand.

It ain't about this and that and the other, it's about cheapness.
Nothing was discussed concerning selective pruning, it's always ohhhh only take off about uhmmmm (hem-haw-see-saw gimme gimme money NOnonono not that much) nonsense, the dang things had been let go in this fashion for 5 years, only take off a few inches, you know.

Maybe you're right, maybe I should've let them completely engulf the power line, and the heck with the big sticks getting all bent up against the house, too.

As for knowing how to do it, fine, but then hire an arborist who knows this stuff because once I get studied up they best be prepared to pay upwards of a grand to have it done properly, you know, doctor's rates. That's for knowing the specifics about each of the species because each is different, and there are enough species to fill page after page with it, that or hire another idiot and expect to get complete FULL service for 2-5 times less than what a true specialist would charge, right?

But I'll buy her the plants, carry the account through the season and sayonara.
Done learned my lesson, don't touch nothing.

dont carry them through the season learn you mistake and make money off the customer. if they will stick with you after doing a crappy job why are you dropping them?

[Frosty03]

Suck it up, count your losses and learn a valuable (and pricey) lesson.

I am sure you will not do it again.

By your own admittance, you overpruned the trees at the wrong time of the year and basically killed them. The customer requested light pruning, you went almost to the ground.

Bottom line, the trees are dead, you should replace them.

Suck it up, do the deed, make it look good. Then wait a bit and drop them if that is your intent. I would do it after a couple of months to put enough time between the you and the crepe fiasco. That way they will not associate the crepe myrtles with you dropping them.

Come up with a viable excuse...like, "I'm trying to tighten-up my route and keep my client base in a smaller area." Then give them the list of other lawn guys.

[sheshovel]

Uhhh, excuse me Topsites?
I am a professional licensed landscape contractor. So your point was?

[topsites]

Topsites...I'm having a hard time seeing your analogy of these situations.

IF I had paid $50 to have 4 tires balanced, and they weren't balanced correctly...OF COURSE I'd be going back. Around here, I can get tires rotated and balanced for $30...but that's beside the point.

A more APPROPRIATE analogy would have been:

No, that's right, I made a mistake... You never paid the $50!!!
Yeah, you think the guy didn't do a good job so you never paid him, then you drove off and one of the wheels came off, tough luck I say. I'm not saying you have to like it, I'm saying you got free service so there exists no further complaint.

That's the thing here, yes the bushes are skru'd but I never got paid, they are no further behind now than they would've been if nothing had been done, one way or the other they would be facing a 400-600 dollar issue about now because had I done nothing then the bushes would cost a fortune to get took back now, but then a crepe is a tree, is it not?
I'll take this as a lesson to never prune, never ever prune because it's not hedge trimming.

It's like the Kohler engine I bought for $600, 2 hours into running and it crapped out, but guess who is responsible? And I paid for this engine but not a ONE authorized Kohler service dealer in the entire town would touch it! Nor could I send it back, I had to take it apart myself and fix it, turned out to be a valve had come loose... Ok, but what about the warranty? Yeah, you wanna call Kohler? Sorry, I wasn't in the mood.

See that's what I'm saying, there is no warranty in our work first off, I might not mind so much springing for what I caused as an obvious mistake, but they never paid so they got whatever for free.

Maybe if they would've paid the original pruning fee, I think things would be different.

But I'm just going to play this one off the way the dealers play me when they're not really that hot about something, you know, takes them 6-12 months to get around to fixing it, that's with me calling every day. Yup, kinda backed up right now, we'll get around to it soon, uhmmmhmmm, no, not sure when, a little longer maybe...

[topsites]

Uhhh, excuse me Topsites?
I am a professional licensed landscape contractor. So your point was?

In order for you to consider yourself such, the State of California's Department of Consumer Affairs has to have issued your license, and I should be able to look up your company or as an individual who had a license issued by the Department of Consumer Affairs for the professions listed, here:
http://www2.dca.ca.gov/pls/wllpub/wllquery$.startup

I'm not talking about your business license, an arborist is a professional because the JOB is listed as a profession! So is a nurse, a realtor, and several others, but landscape contractors are not professionals merely by hearsay, it doesn't work like that.

Your J.o.b., what you do for a living, that has to be listed as a profession by your state in order for you to BE a professional, and in your case the LATC would issue the license, you would be certified like a Real Estate Agent.

The LATC licenses individual landscape architects, not firms or corporations.
Read: California landscape architect licenses expire on the last day of the licensee's birth month and must be renewed every two years (that is NOT your business license), so you're telling me that the state of California issued you a landscape contractor's license which isn't listed on the pages of the LATC and which, if I wanted to, I can look it up right now?

Because I only see Landscape Architect listed as a profession, and if your job is NOT listed as a profession then you can not be a professional, it boils down to that, what you call yourself is an entirely different story.

Please keep in mind one can also receive a complaint history on a licensee or report an unlicensed person, but then the only way you'd need such a license is if your job included the duties of said profession. Now that's the whole gist of it, a customer needs to hire an arborist yet they expect US to do the same job as an arborist with all the guarantees and frills and thrills yet they expect to pay a lousy $60 pmh? Dream on, but rich folks will take us for a ride all day long because they figure we're dumb enough that our ego gets the best of us and they get over on me like that, too.

[fiveoboy01]

topsie, you're screwed up in the head on this.

It's so simple, and you insist on making it difficult.

YOU killed their crepes because YOU didn't know what YOU were doing. If you didn't have the knowledge to prune/trim properly(and it's obvious you didn't), you should have never touched them, even if it was for free.

Don't you get it? This situation was your fault, regardless of how you try to spin it.

Just replace them and be done with it.

[fiveoboy01]

and if your job is NOT listed as a profession then you can not be a professional, it boils down to that, what you call yourself is an entirely different story.

GO BACK TO THE LAST PAGE AND READ MY POST WITH THE WEBSTER'S DICTIONARY DEFINITION OF PROFESSIONAL.

[topsites]

Just replace them and be done with it.

Oh I will, in time.
Took my dealer 6 months to get around to fixing my Echo's lifetime warranty coil, too.
Right now's not the best time to be planting crepes anyhow.

And you can call yourself a professional, it's just a pet peeve of mine.

[caslong]

I done with it. I am not going to try to talk sense into this guy. I have built a great business and allot is because of other LCO's doing shoddy work with bad attitudes.
All of your troubles could have been avoided with about 5 mins of research. I'm glad they did not pay you. I would not have paid you either. Paying you to do what you did, would be like you paying me to 5h1t on your lawn.

[LindblomRJ]

I done with it. I am not going to try to talk sense into this guy. I have built a great business and allot is because of other LCO's doing shoddy work with bad attitudes.
All of your troubles could have been avoided with about 5 mins of research. I'm glad they did not pay you. I would not have paid you either. Paying you to do what you did, would be like you paying me to 5h1t on your lawn.

I concur. Its been stated over and over in various business publications that it is cheaper to keep a customer that it is to replace a customer. Fix the screw up and move on.

[stroker51]

Wow, I can't believe this is even an issue. This isn't even a newbie question, when I first started, had i done something I didn't know how to do and killed a tree, I would have replaced it, no matter how much it set me back. If your business can't afford to replace these crepes, something ain't right. As far as taking care of the customer, there is a common ground that we have to meet. For instance, no one delegates to me what day I will mow them, I decide that when I plan my route at the beginning of the season, but if they ask me to get there before or after a certain time of day, I will try to make that work. No warranty in this business? Every install I do comes with a 1 year warranty on plant material and workmanship, it don't cost that much to include it, and if/when something does die, instead of telling them, "we're not responsible" and getting a bad name for installing dead plants, I'll spend the money and replace it. The goodwill pays off in the end. Most of my installs are with really common, reasonably priced plants, if I was dealing with some exotic high dollar plant material it might be a different story. You've mentioned this "we're not professionals" crap before too. If having a license makes you a professional, then Kansas Pesticide License #19789 makes me a professional, not my quality of work, dedication to customer satisfaction, and desire to learn more about my field and provide the highest service possible? I don't think so. If you view our PROFESSION so low, then why do you do it? If all I thought I was was a lawn boy, from down the street cutting grass to make a buck, then I wouldn't do what I do, I do it because the money is good and people respect me for building a business from the ground up. I'm sorry to go on and on like this, but there is so much BS in this thread from Topsy that it just kinda put me over the edge. Bottom line, I'm going to college getting an education in horticulture, I am a landscaper/maintenance contractor, not a horticulturalist, but am still considered professional in the truest sense of the word, you killed the crepes, you should replace them, no matter how many left-field analogies you use, and if your business is so strapped for cash that you can't afford to replace them, you need to seriously reconsider the way you handle funds or your pricing structure. If they only wanted their lawn cut every 12 days, and it is as healthy as you say it is, you should have from the get go charged more since it will always take you longer, or explain that everything they do to make it nice is a wasted effort if they dont let you maintain it properly.

[stroker51]

One more thing, we got an article in one of my Business classes from U.S. News and World Report detailing why customers quit. It read as follows:

1% die
3% Move away
5% Develop other Friendships
9% Competitive Reasons
14% Product Dissatisfaction
68% Quit because of ATTITUDE OF INDIFFERENCE TOWARDS CUSTOMER!

[PatriotLandscape]

In my case, I just re-balanced all 4 myself (yes, I have a dynamic wheel balancer) and that fixes it

You can afford this but not two crepe myrtle's? Your priorities are really screwed up. In business it cost ten times more money to get a new client rather than keep existing ones.

If you are attracting tire kickers and people who can't afford your service then that says more about your company than it does your clients.

You will find yourself out of business quick with the attitude you currently have.

You screwed up big time and touched something you shouldn't have without the proper instruction.

I am an ISA Certified Arborist and a Certified Horticulturist so I guess I have the credentials you are looking for to be told to replace the shrubs and keep the customer. If you were not making money off of them before then it is your fault for keeping them this long.

ISA Number NE-6302A

MA Pesticide 28886

[LindblomRJ]

He has a fetish for tires and that tire changer and balancer. It seems like his priorities are not what "normal" business owners are.

[lifetree]

At some point you simply need to make a business decision ... you indicated that you believe it would be cheaper to just part company with the customer, so it sounds like you have he answer to the dilemma ... by the way, don't let the fact that they've been wit you from the beginning deflect the real issue here, whih is, it sounds like the customer knos that they can take advantage of you because they have been with you since the beginning ...,, and they know it ... let the customer go immediately.

[sheshovel]

In order for you to consider yourself such, the State of California's Department of Consumer Affairs has to have issued your license, and I should be able to look up your company or as an individual who had a license issued by the Department of Consumer Affairs for the professions listed, here:
http://www2.dca.ca.gov/pls/wllpub/wllquery$.startup

I'm not talking about your business license, an arborist is a professional because the JOB is listed as a profession! So is a nurse, a realtor, and several others, but landscape contractors are not professionals merely by hearsay, it doesn't work like that.

Your J.o.b., what you do for a living, that has to be listed as a profession by your state in order for you to BE a professional, and in your case the LATC would issue the license, you would be certified like a Real Estate Agent.

The LATC licenses individual landscape architects, not firms or corporations.
Read: California landscape architect licenses expire on the last day of the licensee's birth month and must be renewed every two years (that is NOT your business license), so you're telling me that the state of California issued you a landscape contractor's license which isn't listed on the pages of the LATC and which, if I wanted to, I can look it up right now?

Because I only see Landscape Architect listed as a profession, and if your job is NOT listed as a profession then you can not be a professional, it boils down to that, what you call yourself is an entirely different story.

Please keep in mind one can also receive a complaint history on a licensee or report an unlicensed person, but then the only way you'd need such a license is if your job included the duties of said profession. Now that's the whole gist of it, a customer needs to hire an arborist yet they expect US to do the same job as an arborist with all the guarantees and frills and thrills yet they expect to pay a lousy $60 pmh? Dream on, but rich folks will take us for a ride all day long because they figure we're dumb enough that our ego gets the best of us and they get over on me like that, too.


You think I would give YOU that kind of personal information on the internet? No-way. Don't pretend to act like I don't know the difference between a business license and a contractors license Topsites, I have both.
My contractors license #, the name of my business and my real name are none of your affair. To me that info is private unless I am going to do a job for you. Or advertize my services.
I don't need to advertize and I don't need your approval. That is need- to- know info only, It is none of your business, and is it not necessary for me to give it out for my participation on this or any other forum.

[MOWEMJEFF]

I was thinking about getting my 2-year horticulture degree once I finish my Business degree next fall but the 6 classes a semester 4 hours each and 2 hour labs were discouraging, now I definitly see why they are absolutely essential long term, so I thank you guys for that. I also had a similiar problem this winter when a lady thought i hit her car with a snowblower, which was physically impossible were the dent was (lined snowblower up next to it for her), she was expecting me to pay $560 to get dent replaced, I left the flier for mowing out of her last bill.BYE :waving:

[Pro-Scapes]

Pascal in the time you did all these posts you could of replaced that damn tree. Trade the keyboard for a shovel and get er done.

It aint like putting one crepe in the ground is going to put you out of busness.

[topsites]

Doesn't really matter, it'll take a stroke of luck to get my truck to turn down that road, grass is already way overgrown and now it's raining, I don't foresee myself paying another visit when it's all just throwing more good money after bad, best to start the process of forgetting about it. Might replace the crepes before it goes to court, so to speak.

I can admire the virtues and work habits, but nothing, absolutely nothing has ever been done in 5+ years that has proven to me conclusively that customers are not out to take advantage of a business, if at least half the time... Few exist who wouldn't, as a rule, without hesitation jump through an open back door if given the chance, they're out there but are sure few and far between, and based on that I made the choice some time ago to base business decisions on matters that concern not issues of customer loyalty and all of that other frick and frack crap, which as far as I'm concerned is just more corporate bs.

[NELawnCare]

I'm posting this here because I'm at a loss for answer like a noob...

Later last fall (mid-oct or so, before leaves fell) I was asked to prune a crepe myrtle. The customer always wants this thing selectively trimmed but it was way overgrown by the house and I took them way back (way back, about a foot above ground). And, they did not survive.

Proper pruning methods aside, I just read up on this article after article, about the only thing where we disagree is once we get into arboristic methods, and if the customer were to pay me as an arborist that might be ok... Otherwise, selective pruning is for the birds and those who have no problem paying for it, because it takes a lot longer and I don't selectively prune with no dang hedge trimmers.

First, I'm out the $100 fee for doing it and it was a whole trailer load hauled to boot, as the customer never paid because we agreed that was the best way. Now, come late spring, the customer is asking what am I going to do about replacing it?

Please don't tell me the quick answer because I would've shot that one off already, I'm not in the mood to lose another customer yet at the same rate I am at a crossroads where I must make a choice of that or else, I can not afford to replace the plants (2) on top of free pruning.

I am wondering if there's a way to resolve this dilemma without further confrontation or do I just have to say 'I am sorry but there was no charge for the pruning and beyond that I can not go.' , they've been with me since day 1 and unfortunately still expect a lot for nothing, I've tried to explain things have changed but that is always such a waste of time. I guess it might boil down to doing the math and seeing which would be cheaper but I am certain the loss of the customer would be, still I don't feel like losing another one hence again why I ask.

Rethinking response after reading entire thread...please stand by.

[PatriotLandscape]

Your taking your small screw up and turning it into some corporate BS. From your comments you are not a good business person as you take no fault in the fact you ruined their landscape and now will do nothing for them other than to say "I did it for free so they should be happy."

If I contracted someone to build me an addition to my house and in the process they knocked down the house but they built the addition for free. it does not change the fact that they are RESPONSIBLE for my house being knocked down.

[caslong]

Your taking your small screw up and turning it into some corporate BS. From your comments you are not a good business person as you take no fault in the fact you ruined their landscape and now will do nothing for them other than to say "I did it for free so they should be happy."

If I contracted someone to build me an addition to my house and in the process they knocked down the house but they built the addition for free. it does not change the fact that they are RESPONSIBLE for my house being knocked down.
I have to agree with you 100%.

[Vikings]

In one thread he's getting lots of new customers with "pricey quotes" in another thread his customers are dropping like flys and he doesn't know how he'll make it.

And then there's this thread where he screws up and blames the customer.:laugh:

I like topsites but I think his real problem is taking his medication irregularly.

[PatriotLandscape]

I love it when guys do that not knowing we can search through there other fake threads.

these are also the guys that are just starting out but have 100 lawns and make 125 dollars an hour.

[fiveoboy01]

I like topsites but I think his real problem is taking his medication irregularly.

LOL, I agree with you on both points.

Lawnsite would not be the same without him:)

[thefed]

i stopped reading on page 3, this topsites is THE definition of jackass.

How'd this thread go from HIM f'ing up someones tree, to the definition of professional? So he ain't a professional. some of us are. Let him F it all up, we come in and save the day with a LITTLE bit of honesty and INTEGRITY.

OWN UP you ignorant S.O.B. It's the internet, and talking smack to someone on the net is STUPID, but maaaan you piss me off

Ypu downgrade yourself by saying cuz you are cheap, she should EXPECT shoddy work, and be accept you KILLING her shrub. NO F'ING WAY DUDE>...be a MAN and FIX IT

THEN, once you plant her new stuff, cut the grass, and RETIRE. people liek you give US who TRY a bad name

If you have no money in the bank, or water in the bucket or whatever you tried to say, QUIT. If you cant afford 50 bucks to fix YOUR mistake, then QUIT

So, you EXPECTED her to pay for a prune that killed her plant? Are u crazy? "Um, sorry mA'AM, you have to pay...it took me 11 minutes with hedge clippers to kill that thing....and now you gotta pay" WTF? Like i said, crazy

Here's an appropriate analogy...you goto an oil change place, and they change your oil. but then the car falls OFF the rack onto its roof...totalled....their insurance is going to have to pay for a new car.... but before you leave, they ask for their 15 bucks


I cant believe i dignified this B.S. thread with a post

[fiveoboy01]

Dude, that was mostly useless drivel that's been repeated about 20 times.

And I happen to like topsie, he's just wrong in this instance. I don't think he's any of those things you called him. Just misguided in this instance, or like was said, he's off his meds again, lol. He's been here for a long time and has actually given some good advice.

[thefed]

Dude, that was mostly useless drivel that's been repeated about 20 times.

And I happen to like topsie, he's just wrong in this instance. I don't think he's any of those things you called him. Just misguided in this instance, or like was said, he's off his meds again, lol. He's been here for a long time and has actually given some good advice.



like i said, i couldnt mnake it thru the whole thread to see it posted '20 times'

[LindblomRJ]

I have a theory that he is a walking train wreck. He often gives that impression. I have no way of proving it... I don't care. Sometimes his post are entertaining. His 30 minute dissertations on some topics are quite puzzling.

[sheshovel]

I love it when guys do that not knowing we can search through there other fake threads.

these are also the guys that are just starting out but have 100 lawns and make 125 dollars an hour.

Shhhhhhhh don't tell him that!! He hasn't figured it out yet.

[sheshovel]

Dude, that was mostly useless drivel that's been repeated about 20 times.

And I happen to like topsie, he's just wrong in this instance. I don't think he's any of those things you called him. Just misguided in this instance, or like was said, he's off his meds again, lol. He's been here for a long time and has actually given some good advice.

Please post up the links of all this good advice from him. I will gladly take up your cause if you can prove this.

[fiveoboy01]

[/B]
Please post up the links of all this good advice from him. I will gladly take up your cause if you can prove this.

Emphasis on some.

I've seen a few things from him that in my opinion have been good advice.

Do you really expect I'm going to do a search for an hour just to find the "evidence"?

[Vikings]

[/B]
Please post up the links of all this good advice from him. I will gladly take up your cause if you can prove this.

Well topsite was the deciding factor that caused me to settle for a Toro T-bar Gear 36" over a Quick or even a dual hydro, which I really can't afford.

I still remember his quote, "who needs a Hydro when you have a T-bar".

I still have to wait a week and a half as no one in my town has one. They ordered it from the states and it takes two weeks.\

I might even name my first real walk behind Topsite.:laugh: :canadaflag:

[topsites]

I really did kinda want to bury this thread, if for no other reason than I didn't want to be trolling...
But I did want to post an update (and would not be doing it were it not good news):

First off, many thanks to all you guys for helping me see the error in my ways, the joke in the other sub-section (the lawn aeration) helped immensely, as did time... You might've thought it was all fun, but I took it seriously, I really did, it helped a LOT, I hope that was the purpose of it all but even if it wasn't, thanks.

Time has to be the one thing I like just letting it slip for a bit, not to forget all about it, but just to let the dust settle, and the ire cool off, a clear head helps and in many more ways than one, letting some time go by before making a choice has proven invaluable, this time too.

The bushes are sprouting! No way, I was talking to the owner as they arrived today (I was just about done), and I said I was going to rent a stump grinder to go ahead and take care of the stumps... And the man said he thought we were going to let it wait... And I said yeah but I think I killed them and your wife (well you know the story)...
So we look at them, and sure enough there's a tiny sprout coming up, out of each one.

We decided to let it wait until September, at which time we can re-decide, seeing how that would likely be a better time of year if it came down to planting new.

Of course, no charge on the original work, that much I'm ok with now.

Peace guys, thanks again.

[Ecoscape01]

I love it when guys do that not knowing we can search through there other fake threads.

these are also the guys that are just starting out but have 100 lawns and make 125 dollars an hour.

ahahahaha:laugh: Well I do flip flop sometimes so let me apologize in advance if someone searches through my threads and finds contradictions but I don't lie about the success of my business or my profits. I'm a struggling part-time newbie. As for Topsites, I'm way too new to give advice or suggestions but it sounds like there is a lot more to it (5 yrs of PITA) that has brewed this anymousity rather than the fumbled up trees