Topdressing

[Lawn-Scapes]

I wood like to maybe start offering this to my customers. I would like to get some feedback from anyone that does first. I searched but did not find a whole lot...

I'm basically looking for tips and techniques (or is it technics?) for applying it. What's the going $$ rate... is it per square foot or materials plus labor charges?

It says in a book I have, to apply 1 cubic yard per 1000 square feet. Now most of my lawns are 1 acre or better, and it would take a boatload of this stuff... It's $22.50 a yard at a local supplier. It seems this would cost a small fortune to have done. Maybe it's more of a smaller property type service...

Thanks

[LAWNGODFATHER]

Mr. TSG I was thinking of addint this to my services to

But not at the rate of 1 cubic yrd. to a 1000

And I have a job lined up already. I am barrrowing one from a golf course. It is a 5 acre job. the full 5 acres

LGF:blob1:

[Lawn-Scapes]

And this helps me... how?

[LAWNGODFATHER]

Originally posted by TSG
And this helps me... how?

I was wanting the SAME feedback

This might help:
You can apply a topdressing coat at around 6 cubic feet per a 1000 after aerafying and get vary good resaults.

LGF:blob1:

[smburgess]

I don't know what book you are using, but at a rate of 1 cubic yard per thousand square feet, wouldn't you have about 4" of top dressing? Wouldn't that pretty much KILL all turf?

It's late but 1k sq feet would have 12000 sq in.

1 cubic foot contains 1728 cubic inches.

1 cubic yard contains 27 cubic feet.

1728 x 27 = 46656 sq inches.

46656 divided by 12000 = 3.8 inches.

[Dochere]

You should be able to do roughly 5000 sqft per yard of material and at 43000 sqft should run aprox $300 on up for topdressing alone. I would charge 7.50 - 10.50 per 1000 sqft, having the price decline as the property size increases.

[Lawn-Scapes]

Steve,

It seemed a bit excessive to me too. Maybe it's a misprint? Better Lawns - Step by Step is the book.

Thanks for the mathmatical breakdown..

Dochere,

Thanks for the info.

[Lawn-Scapes]

If we use 1 yard per 5000...1 acre would need around 8.5 yards

That's a lot of shoveling and raking in...

Any ideas on how to spread it in a timely manner?

[stslawncare]

hi, for large areas its best to use a tractor, for topdressing just need a smaller 20 hp tractor with a loader. brakes time down immensly, and if u really want to be smart, get a 3pt rake too. now as for amount to put down and stuff like that, on my webpage under topsoil/compost i have that information, also some equations that will help u to determine how much u need in all.
www.nutrasoils.com
Scottie

[fivestarlawnken]

having done this many times usually you want about one inch of material usually topsoil,topdresser,small tractor to pull with,bobcat or small loader to load with and a metal drag mat.a drag mat is usually 5 by 6 or so and basically it gets the material down and you dont see it. you can use chain link fence or chicken fence with 2 by 4's on both ends to make a drag mat.what i would also do is airify and overseed at the same time.in my opinion it is for golf courses,athletic fields and the wealthy homeowners . good luck i hope this helps.

[lawnboy82]

i remember at a show this past winter they had a peletized topdressing. you must buy a special spreader for it i think. but its if i remember correctly about the size of the stuff for seeding lawns. you go over the lawn with it fully open about 1 or 2 times and you are set. you can find it at nurseries. i dont know if i can find the information on it, but i will look for you. i believe 1 bag only covers like 750 sq ft. and 1 bag is about 12 dollars. um... as for going by the yard, why dont you go with a small manure spreader? use that, and then you are gonna need a big broom to clean it up. i would go to a golf course if i was you and talk with the head groundskeeper, see how he does it. he or she may have a catalog where you can buy topdressing equipment.

[Guido]

Look at renting a machine something like this (doesn't have to be a fancy self loader like this one). Talk to your local golf course if you have too. They should be able to point you in the right direction.

Its a lot easier with the machine and of course faster and more accurate coverage.

http://www.earthandturf.com/scoop&spread/scoop&spread.htm

[John DiMartino]

At our golf course,we hand spead it most of the time withe shovels,for the greens,and drag it in with a 6x6 drag mat behind a golf cart.After that we drag a 5ft wide pull broom to finish it off.i was able to borrow a cushman with a dresser mounted in the bed,while it worked good,the problem was its 5ftx5ft body made loading cleanly without waste impossible with our 6ft wide bucket.We spilled a lot of dressing and had to shovel the rest in .Our greens total 44000 sqft,for 10 greens.The drag mat is the key to getting it even.This is also a job for a sunny,windy day,work cant start until the turf is dry,or its muddy mess.We always aerate first,chop up the cores with a verticutter,then top dress.reseed,starter fert after.

[lawnboy82]

check this out-

www.planetgreen.com

i have a slip here - peletized compost - 5lbs per 100 sq ft. 50 per 1000 sq. ft. 2000 lbs for 1 acre.

says its 2-2-3

[LAWNGODFATHER]

Thats what I put out on a real rocky crappy lawn and it would burn fast

But now it has good turf with a good layer of soil

I told you I wanted the same feed back! I have only done it a couple of times and for lawns that realy needed a big help!

LGF:blob1:

[Lawn-Scapes]

Thanks evreyone for the useful info...

[Alan]

Originally posted by smburgess
I don't know what book you are using, but at a rate of 1 cubic yard per thousand square feet, wouldn't you have about 4" of top dressing? Wouldn't that pretty much KILL all turf?

It's late but 1k sq feet would have 12000 sq in.

1 cubic foot contains 1728 cubic inches.

1 cubic yard contains 27 cubic feet.

1728 x 27 = 46656 sq inches.

46656 divided by 12000 = 3.8 inches.

Better run your math again, a square foot is 144 square inches, not 12. So 1,000 sf would be 144,000 square inches. 1 yd/1,000 would give you somewhat under 1/3" coverage.

[Lawn-Scapes]

Thanks Alan...

That makes sense... So we're back to 1 yard per 1000 :)

I don't think folks will go for that kind of expense... 1 acre = $1000 for material alone :eek:

[Ssouth]

theoretically, at 100% yield , you should be able to get .324 in./1000 sq. ft. So what Alan said is correct according to my figures about a 1/3 of an in.

Hey, it's all simple stoichiometry.

[smburgess]

Alan...

I said it was late. lol

[dylan]

Old thread but I have some input
I topdress around 30 lawns a season and have done so for the last few years
My procedure for spring or fall topdressing

1) mow as low as the mower will go. This ensures that the seeds will get adequate
sunlight and makes draging easier.
2) dethatch and remove debris to provide a bare seed bed.
3) areate to provide more seed to soil contact and loosen the soil. also gets the compost
deeper.
4) overseed (2-5 lbs/ 1000sq ft) rate depending on thickness of turf
5) topdress. I use a topdresser purchased from a golf course, holds about 1/3 of
a cubic yard, has a 5hp kohler , a conveyor belt and a spreading brush. a real crowd stopper.
http://www.turfco.com/html/selfpropelledtd.htm
It drags a mat behind it. The mat is specially designed . It has 1"x12" steel bars
with holes at each end. Cable links all the bars together and forms a 4'x4' mat.
The straight edges cut the high spots and level low ones. better than chain link fence.
I usually apply between 1/2 and 1 cubic yard of compost or triple mix per 1000 sq ft.
To figure the amount of material there are two easy methods.
a) LxWxH
10'x 10'x 2"
=10'x10'x .17
=17/27
=0.6 cu yd

b) or use the chart:
Depth/ 1000 sf ft / 1 acre
1" 3.1 yd 135 yd
.5" 1.6 yd 69 yd
.25" .78 yd 35 yd
.125" .40 yd 18 yd

Just measure the yard and multiply the sq ft by the desired number of yds to achieve
the correct depth.

I have found that 1" coverage is too deep and too expensive.
Between 1/8" and 1/4" (1/2 - 3/4 cu yd / 1000 sq ft) is usually good.
Any less than 1/8" is not worth the effort of steps 1-4.

6) Final drag to level and to work the compost into the holes.
7) water, water, water
8) patience, compost disappears in a wk or 2 but real thickening is not seen until the
bluegrass comes up in a month or so. Notice the deep green from the N in the compost.

Why topdress?
1) remove bumps, lumps, level lawn, etc (no rolling)
2) fill in bare spots, repair damage
3) nutrients, micronutrients
4) organic matter
5) CEC
6) water retention
7) profitable
8) loosen soil and relieve compaction
9) disease prevention
10) high seedling germination rate
11) pH modification
12) decompose thatch
13) improve soil
14) stimulate growth
15) improve drainage
16) warm soil in spring

Remember that a yd of compost weights over 1000 lbs and is usually easier if delivered unless
you only need a yard or two.
I am looking for a used toro dingo with a 4 in 1 bucket for loading the topdressor. This will
eliminate hours of shovelling.
Other sites of interest include:
http://sandsquad.com/
http://industryclick.com/magazinearticle.asp?releaseid=2258&magazinearticleid=2253&siteid=17&magazineid=35
http://industryclick.com/magazinearticle.asp?releaseid=2258&magazinearticleid=2254&siteid=17&magazineid=35
http://industryclick.com/magnewsarticle.asp?newsarticleid=160117&siteid=17&magazineid=35

[stslawncare]

excellent post, now with this said, do u think its to late? today i believe it was in the mid 70's.

[dylan]

not sure where you are located.
Here in Canada the grass is dormant, the leaves are removed and I have my equipment away. We have already had an inch of snow.
That said, I do my topdressing in may and in early sep when it is still warm and the grass is growing good. This way the seedlings have time to grow and harden off before winter. Some p rye won't even overwinter here because it is too cold.
What is 70 degrees in celcius? sp I know
Sorry I can't be of more help

[dylan]

oh yeah, nice website nutrasoils

[KirbysLawn]

Looking for this info also, here are a few links that I found today. I have a few nembers I will post later.

http://www.millcreekmfg.com/index.cfm?CategoryID=7&do=list

http://www.turfbuddy.com/

http://www.toro.com/grounds/products/multipro/td2500.html

http://turfco.com/html/golf.htm

[KirbysLawn]

TSG,

I have been looking for topdressers and I think I have found some that are well build at a decent price.
Check out <a href="http://earthandturf.com/index.htm">Earth and Turf</a> for some good info.

The price list is as follows:

Muliispread 200 is $2375.00

Multispread 300 is $4275.00

Scoop & Spread $2795.00

Tru-Flo 54 $1797.00

Trying to decide the between the 200 and the Tru-Flow. Maybe that info will help.

Ray

[gogetter]

I know this is an older thread, but I thought I'd throw this link in here for anyone interested.

http://aggie-turf.tamu.edu/calculators/topdress-sheet.html

[Lawn-Scapes]

Lots of great info and links!!!

Ray.. I like the looks of that TruFlow 54.. How close are you to pulling the trigger on one? Let me (us) know what you decide and how it works.

BTW.. I got the info packet for Lebanon a couple of days ago. It had your name along with mine on the address label.. How did that happen? Maybe because you provided the code & link? You making money off this? ;)

[KirbysLawn]

Tom, not sure why the names were on there?? No money being made by me, just trying to help a little.

I have sent out letters and emails showing what topdressing is, I have had interest from fescue, zoysia, and bermuda customers. I make take the plundge shortly.

Ray