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View Full Version : railroad tie wall 135'x10'


kandklandscape
05-16-2007, 09:32 PM
getting ready to tear down and rebuild a railroad tie wall. 135'x10' the problem is 1.) that it is right up against another building 2.) it is holding a parking lot up. is there a way to build a temp wall? something cheap, just to hold up for about 5 days until we get it completly rebuilt.

i will try to get sum pics up tom. we r scared it will cave in and realy cause problems.

any ideas? we r going to use a bobcat to tear the old wall down to.

BSDeality
05-16-2007, 10:00 PM
I feel that if you are asking this question you probably shouldn't be building the wall. I mean no offense to you, but there is a lot of liability in a 10' retaining wall, especially one that is holding up a parking lot!

Bigred350
05-17-2007, 12:21 AM
I hope your not putting railroad ties back in.

Around here anything over three feet must be a type of concrete wall with reinforment.

procut
05-17-2007, 12:44 AM
I'm with on BSDeality on this one. You took on a job like this and have to ask a question like this. Not sure what the laws are in your state, but here, any reatining wall over 6' needs to be approved by a state licenced Landscape Architect or engineer.

NMS0219
05-17-2007, 12:46 AM
10' rr tie wall?!? Wow. I thought you could only go 5' with rr ties before the wall became too unstable to hold back the stuff it is suposed to. I sure hope you are replacing it with some kind of concrete wall with plenty of reinforcement. And I sure as hell would not touch it with out an enginers stamped blue prints.

kandklandscape
05-17-2007, 07:28 AM
We have done about 10 walls like this, with railroad ties BUT not close to a building. Just asking how to tear them down, never asked about if I knew what we were doing? Thats a big problem on this site, everyone thinks they know everything, I was just asking what to use to tear it down, not all kind of other crap!

It is for a commercial property and they want railroad ties, they will hold, you need no blueprints or anything in our state for something like this.
The wall that is currently there was there for 25 years, shows how much all of you know. No offense to anyone of you here but please use some common sense while answering questions on the forum! Do not just go ahead and blah about something and then criticize the person. I simply asked about if ANYONE ever had done a wall like this one, RIGHT next to a building, not about blueprints, not about if the wall will be stable or not.

I will ask the same ? again, has anyone ever done a wall like this one before? I will put pics up a little bit later tonight so you can see what I am talking about.

AGLA
05-17-2007, 08:00 AM
The structural engineer, who is required by law on walls half that height in any state, should have the "methodology" specified for you. It does not sound like there is a structural engineer involved here. If there is not, you really are placing yourself at huge risk as you are doing the equivalent of building something not to code in a situation where failure can easily kill people.

If there is a structural involved, you should be talking to him. If there is not, you should get one or not take on the job.

kandklandscape
05-17-2007, 08:19 AM
We already have the job, it is in our 3 year contract we must do any landscaping, retaining walls, etc etc. We cover 3 counties of western PA for a bank. So we have to do the job no matter what. However, they never said anything about a strutual engineer involved with the job at all. We do not have to give any kind of warranty either. It is basically just tear down the wall, put up a new one, thats it. And also we have to hire someone to do some paving, as our company does not do paving.

My step father is an engineer and is going out to the job this morning. I will be sure to take my digital camera and TRY to post pics up on the site, (not good with doing pictures and then putting them online)

I just need to know how to get in between the wall and the building, im asking for suggestions, not any kind of remarks about not doign the job, etc etc. Thats not the problem the problem is extremly limited work space, which you will see in the pics. With the insurance factor being an issue as well, I just want to assure myself that we are doing it in the safest way possible.

start2finish
05-17-2007, 08:43 AM
why don't you and your father figure it out, no answers from here with that kind of attitude.

nothing posted was an insult, this is not a job for an amatuer and given your extensive experience you should be fine on your own.

Harley-D
05-17-2007, 12:09 PM
Would love to see the photo's.
It may not be that bad but i think most people that replied were concerned for you and your company. Hope all goes well.

muddstopper
05-17-2007, 03:55 PM
Besides all the suggestions about using an engineer, if you cant access the site, how are you going to dig out the 10ft high fill area to install the deadmans necessary to hold that high a wall. You would probably need as many ties buried in the wall as you use on the face of the wall. It would seem to me that you would really need to dig out the backfill , install new deadmans and re-backfill as you build your wall. This would probably mean closing off the parking area until construction is completed and you would probably need some sort of excavator besides your bobcat. If you are not planning on using deadmans to help keep the wall from falling over, well lets just say that wouldnt be a very good ideal, especially with a 10ft high wall. If you must do this yourself, I suggest you close off part of the parking area and replace the wall in sections, maybe on weekends to limit the inconvience to the banks customers.

kandklandscape
05-18-2007, 06:58 AM
I am not trying to be a dick here. It is just that some of you that are like 5 men operations think you are the world! We have 8 employees, do prevailing wage work and everything in the sky, this is the very first time that I have ever had a problem figuring a job out, in 10 years! We figured everything out, I will post pics tonight as I couldnt find my digital camera yesterday! AH.

Please do not think I am being rude or anything, it just really bothers me, something people say on the site, love the site. BUT thanks to all of you who looked out by saying about a strutual engineer. We do not need one either, called the courthouse, just need a normal $97 building permit.

AGLA
05-18-2007, 08:21 AM
I don't think anything bad of you, just trying to point out a risk that you may not be aware of.

Look at soil nails in this website:

http://www.geostructures.com/pages/designbuild/retaining_walls.htm

mag360
05-18-2007, 10:51 PM
Thats a big wall. Make sure to keep us updated when you do the project.

AL Inc
05-18-2007, 11:11 PM
I would also love to see pics of this job. I'm sure you are good at what you do, but it sounds to me like you are over your head.

G.M.Landscaping
07-05-2007, 08:26 PM
So how's the wall look?

Mike33
07-05-2007, 11:07 PM
Cant say my self or any other qualified SRW builder i know was dumb enough to do a job like this. :hammerhead:
MIke

kootoomootoo
07-05-2007, 11:28 PM
Gotta luv the lawn monkeys who brag about building this and that yet cannot put even one pic on the internet....And why...Because they arent that smart.

I CAN MOW GRASS THEREFORE I CAN BUILD ROME.

Mike33
07-05-2007, 11:34 PM
Gotta luv the lawn monkeys who brag about building this and that yet cannot put even one pic on the internet....And why...Because they arent that smart.

I CAN MOW GRASS THEREFORE I CAN BUILD ROME.
Thats because he can't find his digital camera. :laugh:
Mike

PatriotLandscape
07-05-2007, 11:47 PM
No engineer on a wall 10' high? Get real.

Your not the only business owner on here with employees.

You are in way over your head on this. A wall you install that fails is not a warranty issue it is a public safety issue. The bank won't give 2 shots if the wall fails and they get sued to throw you under the bus. It is up to you to file the correct paper work not the banks.

What does being involved in prevailing wage contracts have anything to do with building a timber wall?

PatriotLandscape
07-05-2007, 11:53 PM
I'm not trying to be a dick here either but why did you call the court house for information on a building permit?

Wouldn't you call the building department of the town you are working in?

kandklandscape
07-06-2007, 12:05 AM
wall is complete, i am trying to put the pics on but can someone explain to me how exactly you put the pics on? i know how to put pics on ebay, what button do i hit on here to put pics up.

kandklandscape
07-06-2007, 12:06 AM
patriot,

no some townships around here want you to call the courthouse

Dirty Water
07-06-2007, 12:50 AM
wall is complete, i am trying to put the pics on but can someone explain to me how exactly you put the pics on? i know how to put pics on ebay, what button do i hit on here to put pics up.

Click Reply To Post.

Then scroll down to where it says "Manage Attachments".

Click that.

In the area that says "Upload File from your computer", click "Browse". Find the file on your computer.

Then click Upload.

Repeat for each picture.

I really want to see this wall.

kandklandscape
07-06-2007, 07:28 AM
some pics before

kandklandscape
07-06-2007, 07:31 AM
more old wall

kandklandscape
07-06-2007, 07:35 AM
rebuilding

kandklandscape
07-06-2007, 07:47 AM
more rebuilding

kandklandscape
07-06-2007, 07:50 AM
more rebuilding, had to skip sum pics they wouldnt load???

kandklandscape
07-06-2007, 07:57 AM
more rebuild & fence

kandklandscape
07-06-2007, 07:59 AM
more rebuild of fence

kandklandscape
07-06-2007, 08:03 AM
finished wall & fence

one section of the fence we could not level out due to the fact that the pole ran down between an existing wall and concrete, we did not want to disturb anything

need to take a few more pics yet

we stepped each tie back 1"

AGLA
07-06-2007, 08:18 AM
How can a property owner faced with having to fix this situation reconstruct the same situation? Don't get me wrong, you did a great job with what was assigned to you, but that situation is not a good one. The property owner definitely took the cheap way out. I don't think you would have gotten the building permit to reconstruct that in my area.

Nice work though. You did well with the limitations of the conditions and what the property owner wanted.

kandklandscape
07-06-2007, 08:23 AM
we figured wall would take 2 weeks to build, actually took us 3 weeks. we had someone else do the paving of course.

the fence was done by us after a subcontractor could not do it. said it was to hard to do? ha

we had anywhere from 2 guys there to 5 guys and 1 girl, depends on what they did that day.
put 6 pcs of 18" rebar in the bottom of each tie, 5 pcs of 12" rebar on each tie there up. about 1000 pcs of rebar total..... 200 tie total approx.... we built a wall BEHIND the wall we actually built. we had a big problem with cave in's so we made the temp wall as shown on some of the pics, i am going to try to get the pics that wouldnt come up, up later.

this wall looks great! need to actually see it to appreciate it.

we tore the old wall down with a mini, took 3 days for that. there also is a little wall on the other side of the building that has propane tanks right there. there eis a foundation that runs the entire length of the parking lot. if we tore that down the parking lot would have caved in, this is why the wall sticks out a little bit.
only BIG problem we had with the fence is that the old term. post was stuck between the stone wall and tie wall on the side by the propane tanks.

also need to take pics of the front of the building and the concrete work to.

any ?'s feel free to ask.

kandklandscape
07-06-2007, 08:27 AM
the property is leased....... they must fix it the way it was before.
when we tore the wall down, we had told the bank that we would need to put a concrete wall up, but they simply said no we lease the property and it must be fixed the way it was before... so we HAD to go with railroad ties.

boy good well DECENT ties are hard to find, all the ties cost 2200$ the4se were considered grade A lol but hey for the age they look good. this wall will last about 15 years is what the building code inspector said, if not longer. the back wall is literally tied in to the parking lot, about 8' IN some spots, where the most pressure is.

kandklandscape
07-06-2007, 08:29 AM
thanks dirty water for the pic help!!!

wab1234
07-08-2007, 08:48 AM
you must hire only giants because these people must be about 12 feet tall if that wall is 10 feet tall

Mike33
07-08-2007, 08:13 PM
Where in pa are you? I noticed somerset on your truck that is 1 hour north of me.
Mike

kandklandscape
07-09-2007, 06:45 AM
we are about 1.5??? hour away from cumberland? there is a few plazas from time to time we bid on down your way, zamias owns mostly all of them

kandklandscape
07-09-2007, 06:46 AM
no giants at all, you just simply walk the wall and sit on it to install ties once you get so high, about 6'

Lawnworks
07-09-2007, 07:43 AM
How much did you charge for the wall?

kandklandscape
07-09-2007, 08:01 AM
i do not disclose that information. sorry. just put 2 and 2 together, sure you will get in the ball park.

Mike33
07-09-2007, 10:31 PM
we are about 1.5??? hour away from cumberland? there is a few plazas from time to time we bid on down your way, zamias owns mostly all of them
I know where you mean. What is your main line of Landscaping business
Mike

kandklandscape
07-09-2007, 11:43 PM
Just all depends on the size of the project. New lawns and commercial accounts. Our business is 95% commercial work. Pretty much whatever they need done landscaping wise.

Mike33
07-10-2007, 09:03 PM
Just all depends on the size of the project. New lawns and commercial accounts. Our business is 95% commercial work. Pretty much whatever they need done landscaping wise.
So are you from somerset?
Mike

bugthug
07-10-2007, 10:40 PM
Good old northern cambria. The work looks good I was at that bank today actually.
I have a friend in Johnstown who sells ties if you need more.

kandklandscape
07-11-2007, 08:57 AM
bugthug,

are you the bug man i guess? are you talkng about the guy down at tire clinic? if so i wish i would have found him before this job, all the ties were perfectly straight!

we are located in both somerset and johnstown. soon to be westmoreland to

bugthug
07-11-2007, 08:55 PM
I have a few friends that work at Als tire. They are good guys. I would guess that yes I am The bug guy.

kandklandscape
07-15-2007, 12:41 PM
hey bug, not sure if this is a ? you can answer for me or not but out in jennerstown we have a i dunno 3-4' black snake... it keeps scarying the girls at the bank and i dont like snakes either lol so is there any kind of trap or anything/posion that we could apply to its holy hole under the building? they tell me as long as you have a shovel or chase it away it goes off...

there is a hole under the building it keeps going into and then of course it digs up all of our flowers and ruins our mulch. every other day we need to fix it. lets kill this snake!

do you do the bank in jennerstown to?

kandklandscape
01-10-2008, 11:09 PM
anyone see this beast?

Lynden-Jeff
01-10-2008, 11:33 PM
Very nice job, glad you showed a bunch of people up who love to jump in a bash people not even know whats really involved. For your snake problem maybe call pest control company?

Cheers

AceFinish
01-11-2008, 10:02 AM
I am not trying to be a dick here. It is just that some of you that are like 5 men operations think you are the world! We have 8 employees, do prevailing wage work and everything in the sky, this is the very first time that I have ever had a problem figuring a job out, in 10 years! We figured everything out, I will post pics tonight as I couldnt find my digital camera yesterday! AH.

Please do not think I am being rude or anything, it just really bothers me, something people say on the site, love the site. BUT thanks to all of you who looked out by saying about a strutual engineer. We do not need one either, called the courthouse, just need a normal $97 building permit.

8 employees is nothing to us depending on the day that is 1 crew for us dude its about quality not the size. You are not being rude you are just defending yourself but remember one thing some of the smaller guys have the best quality and can afford to jaw it up a little.

wurkn with amish
01-11-2008, 01:37 PM
Why couldnt they just fill in the space instead of building a wall? seems kinda pointless.

kandklandscape
01-11-2008, 04:50 PM
lmao ummm because cant you see there is a building right next to the wall that holds up a parking lot, plus there is a building that is a basement next to it

LawnGuy73
01-11-2008, 05:00 PM
i do not disclose that information. sorry. just put 2 and 2 together, sure you will get in the ball park.

Well by me putting 2 and 2 together, my normal rate is $25-28 per square foot for a normal retaining wall. This is not a normal retaining wall, there for I would bid it at $35 a square foot and that comes out to $47,250. This price does not include the fence or the blacktop being replaced, just the wall.

kandklandscape
01-11-2008, 07:05 PM
epic, your a little off but close....

NMS0219
01-12-2008, 12:40 AM
nice looking wall, I have to admit that i was a little skeptical at first when i heard that you weren't having it engineered but it looks good. I just got done yesterday with a smaller rr tie wall. I had to have it engineered and use NEW rr ties due to the town. I'll get some pics up tomorrow.

kandklandscape
01-12-2008, 12:32 PM
cool, how much did the new ties cost? rr tie walls are hard to build 90% of the time because i can only find used ties, used ties run $7 for grade a around here $6 for grade b $5 for grade c

NMS0219
01-13-2008, 03:31 PM
The new ties ran me $95 each and that was a deal. They usualy run $110-125

DoetschOutdoor
01-13-2008, 07:21 PM
$95 for each and every rr tie?!? Or was that price for a certain amount?

NMS0219
01-13-2008, 08:41 PM
That was for EACH tie

SiteSolutions
01-13-2008, 10:21 PM
Holy Crap that's a good bit of money.

Are those ties with the creosote or clean?

NMS0219
01-13-2008, 10:33 PM
those are the treated type. I can get plain ones from my buddy for like $10 each. He has a saw mill and makes all kinds of custom lumber.

SiteSolutions
01-14-2008, 08:26 AM
those are the treated type. I can get plain ones from my buddy for like $10 each. He has a saw mill and makes all kinds of custom lumber.

That gives me a great idea. I need some ties for a project and there's a small time saw mill down the road a mile or two... think I will ask him what kind of deal I can get. Local lumber yard wants twelve fifty for a used tie in good condition...

kandklandscape
01-15-2008, 05:58 PM
we used 225 ties on this wall i believe, wow $95 a pop thats alot of loot lol $21.5 just for the ties wow