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Gene $immons
05-19-2007, 11:19 PM
I have several new employees as of late. On Friday, one of my new employees had a beer from a quick store at lunch. Another new employee mentioned it to me.

How could he possibly think that that would be OK to do?

I also did a background check on the guy -- after I hired him, and there is a long list of many burgurlarys, and some prison time.

The same day, the same employee was involved in a argument with someone else on the crew.

Should I kick him to the curb? or have a serious talk with him?

Darrin A.
05-19-2007, 11:26 PM
Did you mention that there is no drinking alowed on the job? Yes, this is common sense but, did you mention it. What equipment does he use? Use of any power equipment or sharp objects means no alchohol or drugs that may/might/could possibly (including prescription) impare judgement or speed of reflexes. Did you ask about any criminal background? If you did and he said none or nothing to do with burglary, then he lied and is absolutely completely, totally entitled to look for another job. If he told you about his past, you basically are stuck with him till you find another reason, like arguing with crew members, drinking on the job....wait, that's two strikes there, was he late? Fire him, now, before you lose your business or worse, someone gets hurt.

Gene $immons
05-19-2007, 11:31 PM
I did not mention there was no drinking during work hours.

I did not ask him about any past criminal behavior.


Should I really have to tell new employees that we dont drink on the job though?

I could think of hundreds of things that I wouldn't want employees doing while on the clock. Should I mention all of them?

Where do I draw the line with these people? :dizzy:

jpp
05-19-2007, 11:34 PM
Pretty much that is a common sense thing of no drinking on the job. Write him up and next time let him go. He did nothing crimnal but just something stupid. So don't punish him for his past just yet. Give the guy a second chance and let him go if he does it again.


JP

Runner
05-19-2007, 11:55 PM
He did nothing criminal? Where did he drink this beer? Going down the road, or at the next jobsite? If it was a public place, it is drinking in public. Do you want to see YOUR company truck with a guy standing or sitting around it with a beer in his hand?
As far as saying something to him,...it doesn't matter. This guy is going to drink anyway...at some point or another,...it doesn't matter what you say. If he is that much into it that he would just blatantly buy a beer and drink it while working, he will do it again. The only difference will be, if it is forbidden, he will just sneak it - like in the form of a pint of the harder stuff. If you see a storm coming,...you know what to do....

Darrin A.
05-20-2007, 12:08 AM
I did not mention there was no drinking during work hours.

I did not ask him about any past criminal behavior.


Should I really have to tell new employees that we dont drink on the job though?

I could think of hundreds of things that I wouldn't want employees doing while on the clock. Should I mention all of them?

Where do I draw the line with these people? :dizzy:

You shouldn't have to but, if you fired him for this and never said anything, he could get a lawyer and then you're gonna pay your lawyer, and him. As I mentioned, these are common sense things but, some people just don't have or use common sense.
You don't want your trucks to be seen with someone drinking alchohol, no matter where it is or wether or not it's lettered. Your customers know your truck regardless. Does he drive your truck?
You might want to write up a company policy this weekend and give it to everyone, have an extra page that states that the read and understand it and they sign that. That then goes in their file. Make sure you state what offenses carry what degree of dicipline. I would say drinking/drugging on the job is cause for imidiate dismissal. Unfortunately, it does have to be spelled out to keep you out of court.

Gene $immons
05-20-2007, 12:11 AM
Anyone have a copy of employee guidelines that I can use?

howardsells2000
05-20-2007, 12:22 AM
I think if he is drinking on the job, argued with other employees and has a record with some burglarys you would be ok to fire him if you wish. It's your business and you can decide what is appropriate behavior. I don't think you have to worry about getting sued.

lawnman_scott
05-20-2007, 12:32 AM
You shouldn't have to but, if you fired him for this and never said anything, he could get a lawyer and then you're gonna pay your lawyer, and him. The loser who has been to prison is going to get a lawyer? Not a chance in hell, fire him now and be done with the gauranteed headaches to come.

Darrin A.
05-20-2007, 12:45 AM
The loser who has been to prison is going to get a lawyer? Not a chance in hell, fire him now and be done with the gauranteed headaches to come.

I said he could, not he would. I was once told to alway blanket my donkey. Just trying to help Gene cover his azz. If it was me, he would be gone already.

PerfectEarth
05-20-2007, 12:49 AM
Overall, this is a dumb question. You probably already know what to do- let this deadbeat go. Save yourself the problems NOW.

quipit
05-20-2007, 01:13 AM
why don't you call up your insurance company and ask them if you should keep this guy...I'm sure they'll tell you if this guy hurts someone while drinking on the job and you knew he has consumed alcohol on the job before that they won't be able to save your house, car, savings or your marriage.

Scenerio:when this guy hits your foreman in the head with a shovel and your foreman says to his lawyer that my boss knew this guy drank beer on the clock.... guess what's gonna happen, negligence action, whose gonna give you a second chance?

quipit
05-20-2007, 01:22 AM
scenerio: Beer guy cleans under mower deck while blades are on and he loses hand.....he says to his lawyer "my boss knows I drink beer at lunch" or "he didn't tell me I couldn't drink on the job".

Grits
05-20-2007, 01:24 AM
Fire his A$$!!!!!!!!!!!

quipit
05-20-2007, 01:26 AM
scenerio: Beer guy has 2 beers tomorrow instead of one and gets a little horny when he sees Mrs.Jones in the pool....hmmmm, possibilities are endless.

Fire his azz in the morning...better yet...call his azz now.

sheshovel
05-20-2007, 01:41 AM
I have several new employees as of late. On Friday, one of my new employees had a beer from a quick store at lunch. Another new employee mentioned it to me.

How could he possibly think that that would be OK to do?

I also did a background check on the guy -- after I hired him, and there is a long list of many burgurlarys, and some prison time.

The same day, the same employee was involved in a argument with someone else on the crew.

Should I kick him to the curb? or have a serious talk with him?



That right there should tell you what you need to do. There is NO-WAY I would put my clients and their property in jeopardy by allowing someone with a past record of burglary to work for me.
If he should burglarize one of your clients homes and you knew of his past, you could be found liable.'
The beer thing is a good enough reason to fire him immediately. Do your background checks before you take a chance on strangers.

Mr.Mow-It-All
05-20-2007, 01:49 AM
Hey mr. Simmons,
P.M. me, I am interested to know if it is the same guy I hired then fired during last week of all the rain. Luckily I hired him strictly on a probabtion period, as I do all my guys, After the third day I had "hired" him (with no work yet) I was finanly able to find out that every past job and reference on his application were bogus. "No felony convictions" but yet was in DOC for seven years for 5 different charges, all of wich were related to burglay (burg 2, grand larceny, theft of auto). The kicker was how persistant he was about his integrity and honesty.

The day he actualy came do work he, as he drove up I let him know he had better leave and never come back, letting him know I found everything out.

Any way his name started with the letter "N".

rodfather
05-20-2007, 08:19 AM
drop him like a week old doughnut

Haulin' Grass
05-20-2007, 08:44 AM
I think you may be over reacting with the lawyer thing. I really don't see him getting one and I would have no problem with kicking him to the curb.

Charles
05-20-2007, 08:57 AM
The background check would have been more valuable before you hired him.
Someone convicted of crimes like that shouldn't be near or on your customers properties. Then he drinks beer on the job? I agree, that it is common sense not to drink on any job. I vote with firing him asap and just hope he doesn't retaliate by stealing your stuff:rolleyes:

rodfather
05-20-2007, 09:22 AM
just hope he doesn't retaliate by stealing your stuff:rolleyes:


good point...or trashing it one weekend when you're not around.

topsites
05-20-2007, 09:53 AM
Drinking on the job is your open door, use it or lose it, doesn't really matter that you didn't see it. But if you want an easier way out, you might try slowly but surely having less and less work for this guy and see if he doesn't lose interest.

sheshovel
05-20-2007, 10:04 AM
Why would he want or need an easier way out? Because of fear of retaliation?
Heck you might as well fear any employee, criminal record or not of retaliation for being fired. But seeing as how this guy is an x-con and does have a background of behavior like that, he would sure be the first one the cops would go after for it huh?
You owe him no excuses or reasons. Fire him period.

Frontier-Lawn
05-20-2007, 10:04 AM
Anyone have a copy of employee guidelines that I can use?

heres one i have on my comp

Gene $immons
05-20-2007, 12:27 PM
Thanks for the replies.

I am going to hire a different guy and let this one go.

If he wants to try and rob me, I'll be sure to shoot for his head once he breaks in.

Thanks for the employee policy manual Frontier. I am going to use it after making a few minor changes.

jpp
05-20-2007, 02:09 PM
He did nothing criminal? Where did he drink this beer? Going down the road, or at the next jobsite? If it was a public place, it is drinking in public. Do you want to see YOUR company truck with a guy standing or sitting around it with a beer in his hand?
As far as saying something to him,...it doesn't matter. This guy is going to drink anyway...at some point or another,...it doesn't matter what you say. If he is that much into it that he would just blatantly buy a beer and drink it while working, he will do it again. The only difference will be, if it is forbidden, he will just sneak it - like in the form of a pint of the harder stuff. If you see a storm coming,...you know what to do....


Good point about the drinking in public.If anything I believe that would be a misdemeanor. Not 100 percent on that. By crimnal, I meant stealing or something like that. And I agree I would not want my truck be seen with something drinking a beer in it either.

JP

jpp
05-20-2007, 02:37 PM
Good point about the drinking in public.If anything I believe that would be a misdemeanor. Not 100 percent on that. By crimnal, I meant stealing or something like that. And I agree I would not want my truck be seen with something drinking a beer in it either.

JP

I realize no matter what he still was breaking the law. So should he be punished for what he did? Yes. But to what extreme is something that the options to be weighed upon. I was just giving my 2 cents worth is all.

JP

topsites
05-20-2007, 03:29 PM
You might consider making your criminal records check a part of your pre-screening procedure, seeing how you have that option, better before than after the facts but I think I understand why you did it your way... That is to say, use this opportunity to weigh the cost of doing said checks against the possible headaches saved to see if it is viable to doing one always, and as a requirement for hire.

Another idea is to have this as a question on your application (ever been convicted of a felony?), so if they lie then that gives you one possible reason for immediate termination.

You made a good choice, I sometimes worry about a certain somebody getting even with me, too...
But way I see things, if something were to happen then I know where to start looking.

Turf Terror
05-20-2007, 07:28 PM
Fire him...

ECS
05-20-2007, 08:08 PM
Out here I would just fire him and would not need to give a reason. It is a will to work state. You can fire, lay off someone with out giving any reason what so ever. Heck, fire him for being stupid.

Eakern & Dog
05-20-2007, 08:56 PM
Should I really have to tell new employees that we dont drink on the job though?

No, you should not have to tell him this unless you hired him as a bartender. I would let him go asap. If you are afraid of legal stuff, which is unlikely to happen, then just don't schedule him........work him one day a week until he quits.

Frontier-Lawn
05-20-2007, 09:17 PM
No, you should not have to tell him this unless you hired him as a bartender. I would let him go asap. If you are afraid of legal stuff, which is unlikely to happen, then just don't schedule him........work him one day a week until he quits.


when i was working at night @ a supermarket in the produce dept my manager had no prob if i had a glass of wine with my dinner at chili's on my 1hr lunch break when i got back at 8pm. but that was in the produce dept just walking around leaving and taking inventory. i personally would fire him due to heavy equipment.

mountain man
05-20-2007, 09:59 PM
when i was working at night @ a supermarket in the produce dept my manager had no prob if i had a glass of wine with my dinner at chili's on my 1hr lunch break when i got back at 8pm. but that was in the produce dept just walking around leaving and taking inventory. i personally would fire him due to heavy equipment.

I'm sure the owner of the supermarket and the insurance company did not have the same feelings.

Fire the guy asap. An easy "excuse" if you have to have one is say that with his burglary convictions your insurance company will not allow him to go on client properties. That way you get rid of him the insurance company is the bad guy and there is less possibilty of him doing anything spiteful.

Life is too short to put up with these kind of employees. Today a beer. Tommorow much much worse.

Frontier-Lawn
05-20-2007, 10:07 PM
I'm sure the owner of the supermarket and the insurance company did not have the same feelings.

Fire the guy asap. An easy "excuse" if you have to have one is say that with his burglary convictions your insurance company will not allow him to go on client properties. That way you get rid of him the insurance company is the bad guy and there is less possibilty of him doing anything spiteful.

Life is too short to put up with these kind of employees. Today a beer. Tommorow much much worse.

this was in the 90's and the supermarket was www.publix.com

boxsky
05-20-2007, 11:03 PM
what do you have in your employee manual.

Midwest Lawn Services
05-21-2007, 01:09 AM
Sounds to me like you need to either get out the can of whoop a$$, or send 'em packin'!!!!

HOOLIE
05-21-2007, 01:22 AM
I would have to fire him. My old boss put up with all that crap for whatever reason, and it DOES escalate. Pretty soon they're drinking the entire day. And if you dont act on it, you'll lose the respect of your other employees.

An easy out? You found out his was drinking on the job. See, that was easy :)

Also...hook the employee up that tipped you off on this. Buy him lunch for week or something. He might have just saved you some money.

cpel2004
05-21-2007, 02:19 AM
Easy guys, give him a warning if the problem(s) continues then let him go. At the same time its a tough call it could be an easy call. Its very easy to say "Fire him" but what expectatons did you set for him? Do what your gut tells you however if you were so convinced about letting him go you wouldn't be venting through this site, you would've already fired him, right? I will a sure you, if he's worth keeping he will straighten his act up immediately if not he will screw up within the next two weeks. Trust your gut.

Big M LawnnSnow
05-21-2007, 05:36 AM
I have several new employees as of late. On Friday, one of my new employees had a beer from a quick store at lunch. Another new employee mentioned it to me.

How could he possibly think that that would be OK to do?

Did You see him drink that beer? or did the other new guy tell you about it?
Just something to think about.
Actually I think you answered your own question, "How could he possibly think that that would be ok"
If I saw it myself he would have been gone that minute.

sheshovel
05-22-2007, 04:27 AM
Drinking a beer at lunch is not the main problem here, that only exposed the real potential problem. He is allowing someone who is a burglar and has been arrested for burglarizing on to his clients properties and putting them at great risk.
That is the problem here.

WJW Lawn
05-23-2007, 05:36 PM
A beer here...a beer there...next thing ya know...this is what ya got!

MJStrain
05-28-2007, 11:01 PM
If you haven't mentioned no drinking before this, you should now. After I that would pink slip someone drinking on the job. Think of the fit your insurance company would have if he got injured.

fiveoboy01
05-29-2007, 10:12 PM
I also did a background check on the guy -- after I hired him, and there is a long list of many burgurlarys, and some prison time.



Ask yourself if you would have hired him, had you known this pre-interview.

Fire him.

lifetree
05-29-2007, 10:30 PM
I did not mention there was no drinking during work hours.

I did not ask him about any past criminal behavior.

Since these issues weren't vetted in the interview process, I would recommend a situation of progressiv discipline ... if he shape up after that, then you can let him go.

Nathan Robinson
05-31-2007, 04:21 PM
have a beer with him and sey up a ring in your shop. This is an effective way of delivering ass beatings to jack offs!