PDA

View Full Version : burning the grass


springover
05-24-2007, 10:12 PM
Hi all,

I just did an app. about 14 days ago of Loveland fert 30-3-5. I applied to several properties and some of them are burnt and others look incredible. There is a 6.5 acre property that has a few small areas that seem a little stressed.

My spreader was set the same for all and i was getting the appropriate setting to get 15k sq feet per bag. any ideas on what I did?

And from previous measurements of the properties I was achieving 15k out of each bag.

Thanks

Nathan Robinson
05-24-2007, 10:14 PM
what are you applying and what is the weather. tell me everything!

Nathan Robinson
05-24-2007, 10:16 PM
first of all applying a 30 count N is a no no this time of year. you just stimulated all the sedge nutlets. What is the herbicide you used?

springover
05-24-2007, 10:26 PM
Im in the midwest, about 18 days ago or so, we recieved about 3.5 inches of rain during a sunday and none since. The temp was above normal maybe in the mid 80's

30% nitrogen
3% available phosphate
5% soluble potash
2.8% sulfur
3.9% chlorine

Nathan Robinson
05-24-2007, 10:40 PM
Thats alot of N. I would certainly encourage people to water and I hope that was amoniacle N you used. If not just back off the fertizer until fall. Grass needs very little N this time of year. It needs it in fall for storage...

springover
05-24-2007, 11:19 PM
yes it was amoniacle...this is what the grasspad recomended. i am going to get the crabgrass preemergent down by june 1. do you think this is a good idea?

Nathan Robinson
05-24-2007, 11:27 PM
as long as you spray pre-m only. you need to relize that that fertilizer is what you are paying for to act as your carrier for your A.I (active ingredient). Thats a waste of money. Use water as your carrier and get a emulsifiable concentrate or water dispusable granular as your pre-m. I would not spread a granular with pre-m unless I absolutely had too. Cool season grass only needs 4 lbs. of N per year and warm season needs only 1 lb. per year. This should be applied in late summer, early fall and a winterizer. This helps the whole process work smoothly if you are concerned about photosyntesis, respiration, growth and storage. You will save so much money using pre-m in this manner and your lawns will appreciate it. if you want a green in summer just go heavy on the iron. (LIQUID)....You CAN NOT burn a lawn with iron. It is impossible. I poured straight iron (iron only) on areas of my lawn and they turned so dark that it seriously looked black. You can use any micro mix in low or high volume as long as there is no fertilizer analysis on it. I would live to share my program with you that is cost effective and my lawns are the greenest in the area

Nathan Robinson
05-24-2007, 11:28 PM
another thing. You show me just one lawn in your area that is low in Pot, or phos and I will say that my program is garbage! You dont need that stuff in those amounts. again, that is there way of selling you there fertilizers. Thats CRAP!

americanlawn
05-25-2007, 07:11 PM
Clay soil? If so, more fert is good. Hope it's slow release. I like LESCO's 34-3-11??? Has sulfur too. 4 to 5 pounds of actual N per year is what's normally reccommended in central & southern Iowa. Shady areas & loam soils require less than heavy soils with high pH (clay). Our program was put together by our local land grant university. Lots of variables though. Maybe check your local Missouri extension office? We typically like to apply fert at the highest recommended rate (always slow release), cuz customers like the greenest lawns possible. Sure, they have to mow frequently, but at least we're doing our part.

Burning lawns? The only time we have burned lawns is if we spilled dry fert, or if an impeller pin broke, or by using cheap liquid fert (tip burn).

Good luck, your neighbor just north.

EdTLawn
05-26-2007, 02:46 AM
if you want a green in summer just go heavy on the iron. (LIQUID)....You CAN NOT burn a lawn with iron. It is impossible. I poured straight iron (iron only) on areas of my lawn and they turned so dark that it seriously looked black. You can use any micro mix in low or high volume as long as there is no fertilizer analysis on it. I would live to share my program with you that is cost effective and my lawns are the greenest in the area


What kind of products contain iron ?, I want a more darker greening, I applied 21-7-7 about two weeks ago.

bntt68
05-26-2007, 08:32 AM
I agree with you Nathan. I cant believe how much nitrogen is applied in the spring. You would not believe the top growth. They have to mow at least every 5 days. I will not take on new mowing clients that use certian fertilizer Companies for that reason. I only apply about 2.75 lbs. of nitrogen per season.Most of that is in the fall like you said. You can have a nice very green lawn without heavy nitrogen apps. all year. (micros)

Smallaxe
05-26-2007, 10:59 AM
We have a popular lawn company that will put on fertiziler in the spring before the grass breaks dormancy, 4 more apps during the growing season and again after the ground is frozen. Along with all the herbicides etc. It is never considered whether there is irrigation or not. They have their scheduled program and that is it. Amazingly they changed a marginal, unirrigated lawn into a sparsely populated dust bowl. It took 2 or 3 yrs., but they did it
I am always careful to time fertilizer with rain or hose activity.Never before Memorial Day in this part of the country.
.rick.

teeca
05-26-2007, 02:08 PM
just because it's 30% N, doesn't mean anything (to a point), what does is what % is slow release. he could burn a lawn with 6% N urea quiker then 30% N @ 100% slow release. my granular app in the summer is 32-5-10 2%Fe 50% slow release, and i dont burn. his problem is most likly the same we have right now in indiana (central anyway). we have had NO rain, the lawns are dring out, and if there not getting water, or have a root system, the lawns turn brown. i would beleive that it was just timing of his apps (meaning that they were going brown anyway, and he just happend to do an app of fert) i wouldn't sweet it right now, give the weather a chance (rain) and i think you will have good results. the 'burn spots' your seeing could be mower damage? jmo

also, adding iron now while the grass is brown won't help, and if you did burn the grass, it wont help either. iron helps when the turf is growing, not when it's dorment and brown. wait till it starts greening up, then hit it with iron, then it will give you the results you want.

EdTLawn
05-26-2007, 08:31 PM
Please tell me where I can get iron ?, I went to two large local garden centers here and they have never heard of iron sulfate, they only sell ferts by the bag full !

teeca
05-26-2007, 08:47 PM
do you have a lowes or gome depot? if so look in the lawn and garden for 'ironite' it is a dry spreadable iron, about 10% i think. also there is a liquid product, by the same people. i've asked for stuff before, and there eyeballs start rolling in there heads like a slot mechine.

drumbo
05-26-2007, 10:24 PM
I had the same problems on some yards this year, too. We used Lesco's 18-0-6 30% PPSCU Dimension and spot sprayed Momentum FX2 and came up with brown patches as well. And only on a couple lawns. Very odd.

EdTLawn
05-27-2007, 03:03 AM
do you have a lowes or gome depot? if so look in the lawn and garden for 'ironite' it is a dry spreadable iron, about 10% i think. also there is a liquid product, by the same people. i've asked for stuff before, and there eyeballs start rolling in there heads like a slot mechine.

Yes, we have Home Depots here, but I don't think they have Ironite, but I will check tomorrow. I have found that I can buy it from chemical companies under Ferrous Sulfate (FeSO4) in powder and crystal form. Just how much do I dilute it with ?

Any iron gurus here that can guide us in the right direction ?

boats47
05-27-2007, 08:12 AM
Lesco sells strieght Iron Cl, I believe that is what these guys are using. Nate thanks for the info on Iron, I did not relieze that it be that big of a visual. Is it my understanding that you use fert and then squirt Pre-emergent? Do you use dimension wsp? and do you find this a cheaper route then the combo ferts. I suppose a Z-sprayer would make this really cost effective.

RAlmaroad
05-27-2007, 08:58 AM
EdTLawn:
Go to a good Agricultural Feed Store--they may have the liquid Iron. Better Garden Centers should have it also. However, if you have a Lesco--they have a 40lb bag that is good for about 15K. If all else fails--order it on E-Bay

EdTLawn
05-27-2007, 06:18 PM
Ok, great I was able to find 1kg(2.2lbs) of 21% green ferrous sulfate crystals, I had to ask for it and the clerk brought out a bag from the back shed. It didn't cost much either around $7cad :canadaflag: for a bag.

The instruction on the bag said to mix 5oz with a gallon of water, I just used a garden spayer and used it at the 10 setting and hit the lawn with it. I will see if it greens the lawn in a day of two.

Nathan Robinson
05-27-2007, 06:25 PM
get iron with no fert analysis. go to lesco and tell them you want a micro mix only in a concentrated form. Thats what I use. Iron is activated with the oxygen in the turf plant. If is is well irrigated and breathes well, it will be a good choice you. Lay off the fertilizers now and pound it in fall. This will also keep your mowing revenue up a few weeks longer. I seen on hear that someone applies fert to frozen soil. I just want to know why? Cant wait for this answer.

EdTLawn
05-27-2007, 08:02 PM
We don't have Lescos here in Canada, just local private gardening centers and most don't have iron sulfate or Ironite.

Ok, this is what I used, an older model 486 Gilmour Dial A Mix Hose End Sprayer and worked out that the dial scale should be at the 30 teaspoon setting to provide exactly 5oz/gallon. The newer Gilmour 486 models have a max setting of 21 teaspoons which works out to 3-1/2oz/gallon.

I just mixed the concentrate with warm water until it is saturated with about 30 teaspoons of ferrous sulfate.

Nathan Robinson
05-27-2007, 10:35 PM
Do you want me to mail you what I can get here? I can get 2 1/2 gal of this 15% iron with boron, copper and numerous other minerals in there. My price is like $18.00 and It is applied 1 ounce per k. You pay for shipping and I will do this for you Tuesday!

bntt68
05-27-2007, 11:17 PM
whats the name of that product from Lesco Nathan? I could not find any with 15% iron. Thanks

EdTLawn
05-28-2007, 12:19 AM
Do you want me to mail you what I can get here? I can get 2 1/2 gal of this 15% iron with boron, copper and numerous other minerals in there. My price is like $18.00 and It is applied 1 ounce per k. You pay for shipping and I will do this for you Tuesday!

Thanks for the offer Nathan, but the shipping cost to Canada for 2-1/2 gallons weight is going to be a killer. I am going to use up the 21% crystals I just bought first to see if there is any improvements.

When you say "k" thats that mean kilometers ? ...LoL

EdTLawn
05-28-2007, 12:22 AM
Please remove

bntt68
05-28-2007, 07:48 AM
K would be 1000 square ft. He is telling you 1 ounce would cover 1000 square feet.

bntt68
05-28-2007, 07:56 AM
Nathan? What was the minimum water or carrier per thousand square ft.? Do you use a low volume sprayer to apply it? Lesco guaranteed me I would clog up my tips and ruin the pump if I tried spraying iron through a low volume sprayer. ?????

Smallaxe
05-28-2007, 10:25 AM
I seen on hear that someone applies fert to frozen soil. I just want to know why? Cant wait for this answer.


The fellow doing the application didn't really have an explanation other than he was told to. I imagine the company was doing it for the money, because they sure didn't care about that lawn.
.rick.