help with 100acre estimate

[michael bucher]

we have been asked to bid on the mowing of apprx. 100 acres of rough turf. Bi-wkly cutting, with 2-3 of our 60" sitdowns. I've got some ideas, but would like to hear some other opinions first. Thanks!

[gorrell]

Michael, you should be able to cover approximately 8 to 9 acres per hour with 3 60" riders, so subsequently it's going to be a very full day of mowing. It's been my experience that these large acreage contracts don't pay as well as smaller ones, however they don't usually have much, if any, trimming involved. I've been mowing a small airport for several years and it doesn't pay as well as many of my smaller sites. Bottom line, if it's not too rough you should be charging in the neighborhood of $20/acre or around the $2000.00 figure per cut. If you try to charge much more they will probably get a tractor and batwing mower to do it for a lot less. My thoughts, Lynn

[parkwest]

Mike<p>Do you realize how big 100 acres is? I would suggest you go for a multi year contract, then either buy a 30hp or bigger tractor w/ PTO and hook a 15' multi deck behind. If you can't get a multi year contract, look into leasing a tractor to fit this size job.<p>With a 60&quot; mower I estimate you are looking at about 68 man/hours and you probably have to charge about $2,500.00/mowing to make it worth your while with undersized equipment. Someone with the proper equipment should easily underbid you.<p>Good luck

[fireball]

I'll get to you before Larry. If you can leave the equipment there. How about an old 8N ford tractor and Jacobsen Blitzer Reels about 22ft wide. Total equipment 4000.00 Consult turfquip.com under golf course equipment. Should take one guy 4 to 5 hours.<br>You didn't say anything about quality or terrain

[michael bucher]

Hey thanks for all your input. Your thoughts are much appreciated.

[HOMER]

My question would be how will it affact your schedule? I don't like to invest that kind of time in to one job, really could get you behind on more profitable things.

[cjcland]

you could probly find someone that is in school or retired to work 1 day a week on sat. cutting the air field then you wouldnt jeprodize your other accounts.<p>----------<br>CJC Landscape Management<br>Winter Haven, Florida

[Nilsson Associates]

I used to mow a rough area of about 40 acres and found the problem was with terrain, couldn't seem to keep the mower deck wheels on the ground because of rocks, depressions and so on. Used a woods deck PTO setup, behind a John Deere 950 ended up mowing with it raised about 10 inches off the ground, to avoid the rocks, depressions and high spots hidden under the grass ...took forever, couldn't make fast ground speed at all. Converted the contract from fixed ... to straight hourly .. nobody else wanted to risk their equipment so we continued the work hourly. <p>Phil Nilsson

[steveair]

If you want some advice trust me...I work at a airport and mow approximately 100 acres. There are many things you need to think about for this. First of all, how rough is the terrain. Surrounding our airfield we have fields that are everything from rocky, to bumpy, to wet. We use a case 5130 (4wd with 90 hp) to pull a 20ft shulte batwing. To mow the entire field can take upwards of 2 weeks in the beginning of the season and usually about 4 days later on. I could not imagine doing the entire job with such small equipment. The fields are abusive and even bend blades on our large deck. I could see a lot of abuse on those little machines and a lot of costly repairs. Second of all, what is the airports classification. If it is a 139 airport the grass needs to be kept at certain height requirments. What this means is that when you get done mowing one pass, the grass may already need to be mowed again on the other end. We have gone for a month non stop sometimes during fast grow periods.<br>Usually the grass needs to be kept below 3-4 inches due to regulations. A third problem is if you are mowing around any runway/taxiway lights and along the edge of the runway. At my airport we have lights that are 100 ft apart ( the runways have lengths of 6000 and 4000 ft ) and 10 ft off the runway. We have two toro 325 d ground masters with 72 inch decks to mow around the lights and along the runway. On a good week, it takes 3-4 days for these mowers to take care of these lights and runway edges. If the grass gets ahead of me on these edges, it becomes a real bear to mow. Sitting on those little mowers doing less than one mile an hour in tall grass for mile stretches is not fun. Finally, if the airfield has a control tower and you are a outside contractor, you may need to be excorted around the airfield. This could be very time consuming also. We have aircraft radios in all our equipment so we can talk directly to the aircraft controller. If you don't, you may be sitting around and waiting for airport operations to escort you from one side of the field to the other, which is something that operations doesn't just hop on. <p>Since i started at the airport after the equipment was purchased, i Had no say in what to buy. However, if it was up to me i would change a few things. I would probably ditch the bad wing and invest in a large flail mower set up. Alamo has a model called the INTERSTATER that is 3 flail mowers attached to the rear of a tractor (say 90 hp) that give a cutting width of 20 ft. They use thes e at newark airport by me are our good machines. Also, because the side flails can be raised, I could use the same machine for the edge of the runway, and only need the 72&quot; groudmasters for a few tightspots. <p>Overall, though, If you want to do the job i would, without a doubt, think of investing in some sort of tractor setup. Those little mowers may work, but at the end of the year they may be in pieces. <p>Hope to be of some help. If you have any other questions, just ask.<p>Steveair

[John Deere]

I guess I just wanted to add that the comment by Parkwest (I think) is about as real as it gets. Do you realize how big 100 acres is? That is the size of our farm in Ill. All that can really be said about mowing 100 acres is you better be getting paid handsomely because it will take you a long time and you will just almost have to have a tractor with a very big deck. We mow with 2 John Deere Z-Tracks with 60&quot; decks and it takes us 3 hours to mow about 4-5 acres. Just something to think about. Good Luck!

[southside]

You will need to get a tractor 60-90hp<br>with a minimum 12foot rear deck to do the <br>job cost effectively.You wouldn't mow an<br>acre lot with a 21&quot; push mower so why do<br>the same thing with your 60&quot;mowers.

[michael bucher]

The property actually is'nt owned by the airport. It's owned by a private corporation. The airport has the city mow their part. Our thought was to use some of our part-time students to work a day or two on the cutting. If we charged $1,500 to $2,000, with our labor at $7.oo per hr., we could still walk away with a nice profit. From what you guys are telling me about my idea of using 60&quot; dixies is concerning to me. Up to this point our co. has been using all wb mowers for our crews. We were planning this month to buy a couple choppers. Is it not realistic thinking that choppers can cut 10-13mph./4to5acres per hr. as they claim??

[Eric ELM]

It will depend on how smooth that 100 acres is as to how fast you can mow it and how much it grows in 2 weeks. If it has been cut with bigger equipment while wet, you will find ruts so deep, you will tear up equipment. I would have to walk the whole 100 acres before I could give you an answer to how fast you can mow it. If it is as rough as I am thinking, you will have spots that 1 MPH will be to fast.<p>----------<br>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.townserver.com/elm/&quot;&gt;Eric@ELM&lt;/a&gt;<br>

[Lazer]

butcher,<br>Did you even read Steveair's post?<p>

[Nilsson Associates]

You'll need something heavy duty for that specific job, the kind of equipment specialized for it that may not be suitable for your other work. If that job ends, where are you with a &quot;dedicated machine&quot;?<br>Plus ... you'll need a long term contract to absorb whatever equipment costs you have. Big project ... maybe you should pass it up<br>... or do it with a tractor that can be used on landscaping projects where you're only stuck with the tow behind mower which you sell later on. Doing it with small riders seems out of the question, ground speeds too low, deck width too narrow ... and if you miss a cycle or can't mow because of rain, you're going to be fouled up.<p>Nilsson Associates

[GrassMaster]

Hello Everybody:<p>LOL, yes this is true too. I'm at a loss for words, believe it or not.<p>From everything I have read on the above post & they all had good points. This is what is great about this forum.<p>If I didn't have the big equipment & it would be hard to justify on this one job. Unless you are going to try to find more like it, or have some more lined up.<p>This is what I would do, pull off my $100 sweat soaked Stetson straw hat, then pull off my $100 raybans & then wring out my $2 sweat band. Then look them dead in the eyes & say &quot;Thank you so much for giving me the oppertunity to bid on this job but I don't have the equipment at this time to do this kind of work. Thank you for your time & please keep me in mind again for any & all other jobs that you have in the future, have a nice day&quot;.<p><br>----------<br>GrassMaster - Home: www.lawnservicing.com<br>My Start Up Page www.lawnservicing.com/startup/<br>

[cantoo]

michael, nothing is impossibe but you have to be realistic. Look into what the last cutter used on the job and see what is available to rent in your area. I go to lots of auction sales and last year there was a huge Jacobsen bat wing mower that a local company had bought them lost the contract after one year. They were planning alot of work with the mower but the payments were killers. The this is still a doable job if you plan it right, go to all you local used farm equipment dealers and sooner or later you will find one that has a used big mower sitting around, rent it for one year with the option to buy it. My local dealer even has a zamboni that he got cheap somewhere. I think the best way for this job is to rent equipment before you go all out. I would love a job in my area like this, we have a 11' orchard mower with a 3' kicker on the side and 50 hp Kubota that would work excellent. I used to cut almost 40 acres with it every two weeks. And mulch 4&quot; limbs.

[michael bucher]

You guys are giving me some very good ideas. I really appreciate it. I do like your idea cantoo, about going to a farm equipment dealer and possibly renting the equipment. I had not thought of that, but it's an excellent idea. The bottom line from what the majority of you are saying is, we've got to have bigger eqpt. It's not what I wanted to hear, but it's reality.

[steveair]

Hello again....just wanted to add something else interesting to this conversaiton. Currently this year we are experimenting with growth regulators at out airport. We are using a product called stronghold manufactured by PBI Gordon (they have a web page if your interested) this product supposely can cut your mow time in half. Now speaking for myself, i dont know yet. We applied a sample application last year but applied it a little too late to really see any benefits. I am really looking forward to trying it again this spring. Its seems like a great product if it works. Supposely you can delay your first mow for up to 9 weeks and then reduce your overall cuts time in half with only two applications a year. The product is a bit pricy, but not outrageous, and if you have a license and equip, the cost should not be to much to spray. We have a outside contractor doing our application and are just spraying around our lights at the momment. Just figured I 'd throw this in to give you something else to think about.

[HOMER]

I don't know if I like the sound of that at all!!!!! What if everybody finds out about it? Can you spell............toast?<p>Homer

[HOMER]

Tell them you will only do it if you can get the contract for 3 yrs. Lease the equipment and factor in the payments so you can make a few bucks. Use the equipment while you have it to seek out other big areas and put somebody on it. I think you could come out ahead and using the $1.00 buyout at the end of the lease you would have another piece of equipment to use for the next 10 years.<p>Just a thought!<p>Homer

[goose]

You need a bigger piece of equipment for sure.But is it really worth it?Steveair had some good points , waiting on an escort to cross the active runway could be costly , weather could also be a factor .A 100 acres is a lot but if you take the plunge and buy the right equipment and get a good contract that equipment can make money for you for a long time. Keep us posted

[michael bucher]

<br>You all will be glad to hear that we have ruled out the idea of using our dixie choppers on this. We are in contact with a farmer who has a large tracter and pull behind mower. Not sure yet what type of tracter or deck. Will keep you posted. The farmer has a son (17) who would mow for $250.00 a day. I think we will jump on that if there equipment is right.

[Cannonturf]

I was wondering if anyone has thought of using a growth regulator.specially if the terrain is that bad and hard on equipment.<br>