Question on overseeding

[dmk395]

A customer of mine aerated his yard today. He then decided he was short on time and would like me to "overseed" for him. His lawn is about 18,000sqft., Kentucky Blue Grass. How would I go about this process. I have done this before with small areas of grass, simply by cutting the lawn short then simply getting my broadcast spreader and apply the seed. Is this a good way to attack this project or should I rent an overseeder? Should I cut it short even after aerating?

[crazygator]

I would cut it short, then use the overseeder to force the seed down. Make sure you water really good after seeding. You can and should use some fertilizer middle of next month to allow good growth before your cold weather makes the growth go dormant. Do the same in the spring and you'll have a wonderful looking lawn, and a good one to cut and stripe too!

[KirbysLawn]

Not sure about Maine, but here I would not do it. With the drought and heat it would be a waste of time. If he has already aerated good for him, I would tell him it would be due next month and go from there. Any job done now is in for failure and who will be to blame...you. Things may be different that far north, I'm not sure, that's what I would do here.

[crazygator]

I offer my opinion, but I am to blame? Whatever! You take all the info you get and using your best judgment from that info you make a decision. You can't blame someone else like that. Quit passing the responsiblilty around to someone else.

[KirbysLawn]

Crazygator, what are you talking about? I was replying to the first post, not yours. Heck, yours was not even there when I started typing.

When I say "and who will be to blame...you." I am talking about when a seeding today is done, and it fails and the homeowner is pissed who will they blame? Surely not themselves, they will blame you or me, the hired worker.

Nothing was directed toward you and I was not "passing the responsiblilty around to someone else", please re-read my first post.

Ray

[65hoss]

I agree. If the temps are to warm you are in for failure. People are always looking for a reason to blame others for their eagerness. Proceed with caution. If he insist, do it, but explain the you position good.

[lawrence stone]

DMK 395 please forgive the ignorance of our southern LCOs for they are just trying to be helpful.

You need to get that KBG in the ground ASAP. Since KBG can take up to a month to germinate in you wait any longer the seedlings will not have enough time to build up carbs for winter.

From Aug 15 until labor day it the BEST time to overseed in norther climates. The sun angle is not as severe and normally the weather starts a rainy pattern.

[dmk395]

thanks for the posts

[KirbysLawn]

Originally posted by lawrence stone
DMK 395 please forgive the ignorance of our southern LCOs for they are just trying to be helpful.

This coming from a guy that thinks a soil pH of 5.5 is "way to high" and can't tell the difference between simple crabgrass and Poa Annua! http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?threadid=18732

I stated in my post it may be different that far north, how about giving your answers without insulting others. In the above thread you were also degrading and insulting until you were proven wrong again. At least you can't go back and delete you post like you did in the soil test thread!

Sometimes people think so highly of themselves they have their nose so high in the air, they can't see all the sh** they are stepping in.

DMK I would get a second opinion from someone that lives closer to your area.

[strickdad]

i agree with kirby, but we are in the same area about 70 miles from each other. i always use a core areatation when im overseeding simply because i havent had any luck useing a seeder plus we apply a "starter" fert. at the time of seed installation...

[lawrence stone]

Originally posted by KirbysLawn

DMK I would get a second opinion from someone that lives closer to your area.

The U of Mass has very little info on this subject. But PSU has tons of free online info.

http://www.agronomy.psu.edu/Extension/Turf/TurfEst.html

Here is a second opinion from Dr. Peter J. Landschoot, Associate Professor of Turfgrass Science:

9. Seeding
a. Late summer to early fall is the best time for seeding permanent turfgrass. Recommended time of seeding for Pennsylvania conditions is as follows:


Southeastern Pennsylvania September 1 to October 15

Northern tier and high-altitude counties August 10 to September 10

Other Pennsylvania areas August 20 to October 1
-------------------------------------------------------------------

So if you are in Western Mass you only have until SEPTEMBER 10
to get the seed in the ground at the LATEST.

[KirbysLawn]

Stone, I understand the text book answers. However we don't live in a text book world, my main point is; is it still too dry and hot to start right now? If people are failing to water established lawns and they are drying out up north, then what point is it to lay seed into the ground if they are not going to water the seed either?

Books and professors are great, but we must adjust our work around the weather we are faced with.

[lawrence stone]

Originally posted by KirbysLawn
is it still too dry and hot to start right now?

No the angle of the sun is dropping quick. Up this far north we are losing 2-3 mins of daylight per day.

If you don't get the KBG in the ground ASAP if it turns cold in September it will rot in the ground.

Rye grass is another animal for it is up in 7 to 10 days.

I would not reccommed that dmk 395 use 100% KBG.
My reccomendation is that of a 50-50 blend of rye/blue.

You need rye to get up quick and stabilize the soil to help in keeping the soil on the yard and not down the storm sewer.

[dmk395]

Will I be alright putting the seed down with my broadcast spreader?

[lawrence stone]

Originally posted by dmk395
Will I be alright putting the seed down with my broadcast spreader?

Only if you want about less than 20% of the prodct to geminate.

A good power raking an a double aeration will be about 50%.

Using a lesco renovator, bluebird or ryan seeder will increase to 75%.

[LawnSmith]

i can only tell you my experience from living here in Kentucky. i have never worked anywhere but kentucky so this may not work for you but it should: i usually seed in the fall; late august septepmber even into early oct. i use a mix of BG, K31, and Rye. sometimes for quicker results and/or if it is late i use only the Rye and BG. personally Rye is my all around favorite grass. and yes that is coming from someone that has Kentucky BG coming out of his ears. anyway, cut the grass short as possible w/out making it go dormant early(basically no 1/2 scalp jobs) double seed w/ a broadcast spreader to keep cost down. tell the homeowner to pour the water to it like crazy. if he wont or cant that will effect the outcome majorly; offer to water for him if he cant. once you start seeing germination of the BG spread the fert. the Rye, if you put any down, will be fine w/out the fert right away. you want something w/ a high nitro level 30+ at least. you should be fine as long as you pour the water to it pretty good.

by the way, i have a Degree in Horticulture and have seeded everything from a 1/2 acre yard to every Fairway on an 18 hole golf course. talk about being nervous! more on that story later though.

[crazygator]

Kirby we have a misunderstanding, no problem here ok? But Mr. Stone, I'm sorry you feel that someone from the south has no idea of things. I guess we will just have to get as smart as you huh???

[dhicks]

I'd rent an overseeder to do the job but I would wait until the end of September.

[dmk395]

thanks to all,must say as i get older I get wiser.

[lawrence stone]

Originally posted by dhicks
I'd rent an overseeder to do the job but I would wait until the end of September.

That's too late even for zone 7. Most of Mass is zone 5.

Establishment: Bluegrass can be fairly easy established from seed or sod. Seeded lawns establishment depends upon a well prepared seedbed, application of a starter fertilizer, following seeding guidelines with consistent watering schedules while the seedlings develop and thereafter as needed. Due to the slower growth of Bluegrass, full establishment takes time (1-2 months is not unusual). This is one of the primary reasons to include Perennial Ryegrass in a Bluegrass lawn

http://www.bluegrasses.com/

[lawrence stone]

Originally posted by dmk395
thanks to all,must say as i get older I get wiser.

Actually I am the wise one.

Sell your customer on a 50-50 rye/blue mix.

Show him the info from the following web site.

http://www.bluegrasses.com/

The addition of perennial ryegrass helps to develop a tougher sod that stands up to tougher wear. Bluegrass and perennial rye are good companion grasses for athletic fields and playgrounds. These different combinations of grass seeds works exceedingly well for newly planted seedbeds and overseeding existing stands of bluegrass lawns. The balanced mix is chosen to utilize the specialties derived per each kind; blending traits to produce the best composite coverage possible. Including the faster growing Ryegrass also produces a lawn cover while the Bluegrass grows in.

[Cleve]

Well....This post seems to be going in more than one direction so I want to add some to it.
Regards Mr. Stone, I value his suggestions a great deal. Because of him my Toro WB is finally cranking properly and working like it is supposed to. He offered help that neither my dealer or Toro would to get it working.
And now regards overseeding, I am one of the southern folks (Atlanta, Ga. area) that have always overseeded with what they call "turf type fescue" down here.
I notice everyone "up there" talking about Bluegrass and Perennial Rye. Never heard of or used "perennial" rye before. Around here they overseed some fescue lawns with annual rye every year and that creates problems of its own. I prefer to use the turf blend fescue each year for overseeding. If properly done and fertilized correctly you can keep a green lawn year round. Might get a little less green during Jan, Feb. but will maintain a green lawn for the full 12 months.
Should I consider offering this "perennial rye" as an addition to my customer's fescue lawns?
Cleve.

[lawrence stone]

Originally posted by Cleve

Should I consider offering this "perennial rye" as an addition to my customer's fescue lawns?
Cleve.

You are right on the edge of ryegrass country. If the lawn is watered in periods of drought it might work and actually live through the summer. You will need to find a variety resistant to heat.

http://www.ryegrasses.com/adaptation/index.html

You best would be to use the new heat tolerant bluegrass hybrids that will be available in a few years.

[bobbygedd]

i agree with lawrence(for once), im in nj, and every year at this time we start our thatching/aerating/seeding, and with great success. ktcky blue takes a min of 28 days to germinate, that means just for the seed to open. if u plant it in mid september, it will open in mid october, and has more of a chance to die from cold. if we do seed later in the season, we use a rye grass/fescue which takes less than half that time to hatch. do it now!

[dmk395]

Here is a followup to maybe settle some disputes. I overseeded and aerated about 2 weeks ago, with Kentucky bluegrass. The grass has become greener and germination has begun to take place rapidly. Someone has been humbled now of course, as others have found themself stuck between a rock (stone) and a hard place.