Problems in one water district

[DanaMac]

I have a lot of customers in one water district, that over the last year replaced all the water meters. Just before all the meters there is now a dual check valve (not a double check). And many of the PRVs were replaced as well. I'm finding many of these systems do not work properly now, as the new equipment must be restricting volume/flow more than the originals.

One in particular yesterday had four impact heads per zone, and many of them now stick in one position, and don't throw the way they used to. This particular one may also have a PRV problem though. When they replaced it they turned the screw all the way down for max pressure. I have found many PRVs adjusted this way, and something (plate/spring) inside ends up blocking the flow/volume. So she has around 85-90 psi at the RP, with a 1" main into the house, and out to the sprinklers, yet the system now works like crap. The only thing I could do was to change out the impacts to gear drive rotors. Had to mix and match the zone. She was so worried about it burning up because they wouldn't operate. PRV is before the meter so I can't replace it.

and I know talking with the district will get me no where. Had it happen last year on another one where they kept telling me that the pressure was great, which it was, but they didn't get the concept of volume. So we went round and round and they finally did what I told them it needed, and then it worked great. I guess my main gripe is that they are going to tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about and won't fix the problem. This isn't the only house that I'm now having problems with in the area. I may get a bunch of redesigns to do later from this.

[SprinklerGuy]

Sigh....

I love the Muni water guys that come out w/ their gauge and tell us that the pressure is fine......the automatic sprinkler valve must be bad...your sprinklerguy is an idiot....

speaking of idiots

[DanaMac]

Next job I went to down the road had 55 psi at the PVB with 6 and 7 rotors per zone, with 2-3 gpm nozzles and it worked phenomenal. Could have added more heads if need be.

Tony and Tom, just so you know, it is the Donala Water District in Gleneagle.

[SprinklerGuy]

I'm glad I don't go that far North....;)

[Mike Leary]

Don't let the purveyors stonewall you!!!! We've had PRVs ahead of the POC
& yelled & screamed...& got it done....but you gotta scream & you got to be
into the biz long enough to have them listen & trust you. We pushed for deduct meters, since the billing
was adding to the sewer surcharge & we were not adding to it! Keep pushing for deduct meters, I don't
care about the cost, 'cause it's small over the years & it's flat-out wrong.

[PurpHaze]

I may get a bunch of redesigns to do later from this.

Just rip it all out and start over anew. When you give them the bill make sure the "complaint department" (your water purveyor) phone number is hi-lited. :laugh:

[Wet_Boots]

When I see a PRV upstream of a meter, I usually make a direct pressure measurement at a hydrant nearby, and if it isn't extreme, I might just swap around the components, and let the meter be exposed to street pressure, so that the sprinklers can work from a connection upstream of any PRV.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

The cities are pretty creative at stretching their water lines. I've seen all new meters put in on a whole block that missed up every system in order to increase flow at the end of the line for a new development.

[DanaMac]

When I see a PRV upstream of a meter, I usually make a direct pressure measurement at a hydrant nearby, and if it isn't extreme, I might just swap around the components, and let the meter be exposed to street pressure, so that the sprinklers can work from a connection upstream of any PRV.

I have seen the bottom of two meters blow out because of no PRV before it. One blew out while I was working on the system. Darn fast closing DV valves. Other one flooded basement for a few hours.

[Wet_Boots]

Those meters would have blown from any (dishwasher, washing machine) fast closing valve, if the water pressure was high enough to begin with. I just hate to see a sprinkler system handicapped from a PRV-choked water supply, especially if the property is larger than the supply can cover, in the usual watering window. If there's 70 psi in the street, the PRV is not needed anyway. For the really high pressures, a Wilkins BR-4 might take the place of an original PRV, and allow a set point that lets most of the usable flow into a sprinkler system.

[DanaMac]

If there's 70 psi in the street, the PRV is not needed anyway. For the really high pressures, a Wilkins BR-4 might take the place of an original PRV, and allow a set point that lets most of the usable flow into a sprinkler system.

70 psi at the street? Ours here start at about 100 and are close to 150.

[Wet_Boots]

You guys out west have lots of elevation differences to kick up that pressure. I don't get much of that. I used to believe that a PRV meant static pressures would be near 100 psi, or more. Boy, was I ever ticked off when I made a connection upstream of the PRV, only to find a wimpy 70 psi. Now I carry fire-hydrant adapters and wrenches, so I can read street pressure on my own.

[Mad Estonian]

Boy, was I ever ticked off when I made a connection upstream of the PRV, only to find a wimpy 70 psi. Now I carry fire-hydrant adapters and wrenches, so I can read street pressure on my own

I like what you're doing there, but is that legal where you are (and I don't mean that I'm morally outraged, just wondering if you have to be careful not to get caught doing that)? Here, we're not supposed to touch anything upstream of, or including the meters, and that would definitely apply to hydrants.

[Wet_Boots]

I don't think possession of hydrant wrenches and adapters is as bad as possessing burglary tools, but just the same, I don't make a show of their use.

Upstream of meters is generally best left alone, but there can be those *#%@!! globe valves that cut into the flow, that a bit of corrective surgery could replace with ball valves. Verrrry tempting to get out the curb stop key and swap them out. (don't tell anyone I told you to do it)

[SprinklerGuy]

The big issue I see isn't necessarily the PRV causing problems....at least not when it is operating properly....

When the PRV malfunctions and is corroded and crappy.....the flow is pathetic.....that is when the MUNI guy comes out and says....the pressure is fine....

And there isn't anything the H/O can do as the PRV is before the meter.....and sometimes before the shutoff....

[Mike Leary]

And there isn't anything the H/O can do as the PRV is before the meter.....and sometimes before the shutoff....

As I posted earlier on this thread..the homeowner is not going to get action,
the contractor, if he's known to the purveyor as not a "screamer", will.

[SprinklerGuy]

Perhaps your town is different than our CITY.....