"I bet you hate guys like us"

[Lawn-Scapes]

I stopped today to chat with someone I hadn't seen before in this business. He was cutting a lawn around the corner from where I have a couple. He had a decent set-up.. 6x12 enclosed trailer, 60" Lazer and handheld stuff. He was cutting a property close to 4 acre and I was curious as to how his pricing was... so I asked. He said it was $130. So his pricing is decent... He said he has been doing it for 5 years on the weekends, so his wife doesn't have to work. He later said (rather proudly) that he makes $600-900 and doesn't pay any taxes. He said, "I bet you hate guys like us... because there's plenty of us around".

[vipermanz]

he sounds like a average ""Lawnsiter""

[Administrator]

Thats the point behind all this... educate and improve our industry.

[eslawns]

Thats the point behind all this... educate and improve our industry.

Exactly. As opposed to criticizing everything somebody does that you disagree with.

[Administrator]

<i>Exactly. As opposed to criticizing everything somebody does that you disagree with.</i>

What do you mean? Please specify.

Chuck

[John DiMartino]

Im part time,but i pay taxes.Honestly,if you do your accounting right,you wont end up paying any more than if you worked for someone else,especially if your reinvesting in your business.The positive side of working legit is,you can get a loan easy,try buying a 160K house,when your income only shows you can swing a 70K home.have great credit,and if needed,you can collect compensation on your actual pay if your hurt.In the end that guy's cheating will come back to him,and he will pay in another way.

[gusbuster]

Originally posted by John DiMartino
,try buying a 160K house,when your income only shows you can swing a 70K home.have great credit.
In the end that guy's cheating will come back to him,and he will pay in another way.

John,
Very good point!

That's how the cookie collector nails people for income tax evasion. The banks may let it slide, but the goverment only trusts god.

John

[TJLC]

I'm sure there is ALOT of people down here not paying taxes. I know I do everything by the book and don't have to look over my shoulder. If I didn't, I don't think I would be telling people. Not too smart in my opnion.

[Fantasy Lawns]

that's the exact problem my roomate is having ......he makes his living on tips .......but does not claim em ....so his reportable income is way less than what he brings ..... he's in the process of buying a home n it's tough getting credit

as far as the lawn guy goes hey that's been part of this n other industry's for years .....but he really is exposing himself (and familiy) to legal issues n penalty's ==>not the sharpess tool in the shed

education to those out there .....explaining the long run effects n benefits of performing as a legit business ......having income can be creatively (legaly) off set with a great CPA ..... claiming ALL the deductible's & using expenses to off set profits

in the start we all did those things ( I did ) but as the years rolled ...had to take a more serious stand ......for the long haul .....to be around years down the road ......grow strong ......to sleep at night ;->

[thelawnguy]

"try buying a 160K house,when your income only shows you can swing a 70K home"

banks dont care how much you make anymore, they just run a credit check and if your score is high enough they give you the loan.

Just got through refinancing the ol hacienda and the woman at the bank, when taking my app, told me how much I needed to put down on the app to get the amount I wanted. She said nowadays all they do is input your SS# and software decides if you get the money or not. That and a reasonable appraisal.

So maybe being a scrub isnt as bad anymore as its made out to be...(j/k)

[Randy Scott]

I guess I am just too honest a person to be an under the table cash operating POS! He's probably the first guy to piss and moan about taxes and cost of living. His own ignorance cannot even decipher the fact that he, and others like him are the problem, not solution. Anybody operating that way will never get an ounce of respect from me ever. Just my taxed 2 cents!

[captdevo]

weekend warrior!!

it's only a matter of time before he's caught...

[John DiMartino]

Bill,when they put in your SS#,it tells them your reported income from whenever you started working,so income does matter.I know there are other factors,but you will not get a loan for an amount greater than you show you can pay for,unless you have a good co-signer,or are putting more than 25% down.

[smburgess]

He's right, I hate guys like that, for what they do to the business. No insurance, no taxes, not meeting government regulations, I am happy whenever they get caught in the net and pay for it, the harder the better.

[thelawnguy]

Originally posted by John DiMartino
Bill,when they put in your SS#,it tells them your reported income from whenever you started working,so income does matter.

Not anymore. that was the old days. Today, you are just a credit score. All the lenders care about is your history of paying debt. If your FICO is over a certain number, usually around 700 or higher, they take your word for whatever you tell them you earn.

I realize this is getting off topic, but if lenders paid more attention to 1040 forms and not just payment history maybe more folks would do the honest thing tax-wise, the net result being spreading the burden over a wider audience and we would all end up paying less.

And leveling the playing field for those business owners who play straight up.

[Lawn-Scapes]

it's only a matter of time before he's caught...

No time like the present... ;) should I or shouldn't I

I couldn't believe he was so matter of fact about it...

It would be wierd if he was a lawnsite member or lurker :eek:

Oh well..

[skipwatson]

"Not anymore. that was the old days. Today, you are just a credit score. All the lenders care about is your history of paying debt. If your FICO is over a certain number, usually around 700 or higher, they take your word for whatever you tell them you earn. "


That's only true with a no income verification loan, which generally requires a 20-25% downpayment. FICO is important, but unless you're putting down a hefty chunk of change, the bank is certainly going to look at your income.

[thelawnguy]

"That's only true with a no income verification loan, which generally requires a 20-25% downpayment. FICO is important, but unless you're putting down a hefty chunk of change, the bank is certainly going to look at your income."

I have never applied for a no-verification loan. Always conventional financing at A paper rates.

If you are not a credit stiff they will throw money at you. I speak from first-hand experience.

[skipwatson]

So do I. I'm a real estate broker.

[Charles]

I had a similiar conversation with a lco. 2 guys with decent equipment that do sometimes sloppy work. As in blowing all the grass in the road... Doing it parttime and splitting 200 a day and as one of them said "paying no taxes" and charging less because of that. We are covered up with these types in our city as well as hundreds of other lcos most sporting lazers. It can be very discouraging. The thing about it is that congress and W keep cutting the budget of the IRS and their enforcment capabilities so they focus mainly on the big money evaders now. But sooner or later they say they will get everyone. Its very unfair competition for us tax paying businesses

[Premo Services]

Originally posted by TSG
. He was cutting a property close to 4 acre and I was curious as to how his pricing was... so I asked. He said it was $130. So his pricing is decent...

I think this is the exception, rather than the rule. The ones that I have talked to have nice equiptment, and work a full time job, and charge quite a bit lower. :angry: They don`t pay taxes, and think they are making good money. This just gives the cheap, price hunters an option, because they don`t stop to think, what if there is a problem and he don`t have insurance. The prospective customer thinks we should all do the job for the low rate. I get a lot of referrals for trimming bushes,etc., and some of them question my rates and I have tried to tell them about insurance, taxes, the cost of my commerecial equiptment, that insures them a professional job. NO MORE the rates are there and either you want me to to the job, or you get the neighborhood kid or someone else!! This never happens on the full service referrals, they see the job my customers get and want the same quality job.

[Eng Mwr Guy]

Charles: I agree it isn't fair. However, life isn't fair.....or easy.

It is possible these people will not ever get caught. Getting caught/enforcement isn't the point. The real question is what kind of person are you and what kind of role model do you want to be? I feel, it is a personal moral/ethical question that each person has to live with. I want to be the best example I can be to my 9 year old son and my 7 year old daughter. I want them to be decent people.....it starts with me and my choices. Every business owner has the opportunity to be dishonest.

Loans:
Easy credit is a trap.

Barry Adamski

[Charles]

I disagree with you on the point that its not the enforcement or that they will not get caught Engmwr guy. Tax laws are not there to be voluntary. Not many people WANT to pay their taxes. They pay them because its illegal not too. Its the government to enforce the laws of this land evenly and FAIRLY if the want people to obey them. They should not even make a law that they do not have the ability to enforce. I know life is not alway fair but that hasnt nothing to do with enforcing a law on the books that effects us all. The IRS should be run efficiently and given proper funding to get the job done and plug all the leaks. There should be no doubt in citizens minds that they will slip through the cracks if they dont comply. We should demand greatness from our government agencies and give them the money and top management to be great.

[SLS]

I hate to say it but I know a guy who has been cutting lawns since high school and is now 43 years old.

He has never reported his income. He still lives at his dad's house.

But then again, he has no Social Security built up either.

"What cha gonna do when it comes time to retire?" I asked him.

"I dunno...I'll worry about that later...." was the reply.

Some folks never grow up. :(

[Guido]

You see these guys around and they have the balls to come up to your face and tell you they're stealing from our pockets........


Turn them in!! Simple as that! It only takes a phone call or two. Just make sure your $h.. is straight before you point your finger around.

As long as your legit, you got nothing to lose. Take them dowwwwnnnn!!!!

:blob2:

[taz72373]

Like me the other day I had a guy call me here in town that has a little motel not much its like a house that looks like one story from the front but when you drive around back it 2 stories only about 20 rooms in all. But anyway the guy that mows his motel which is a state road crew worker was sick and couldn't mow the grass so the guy from the motel calls me and asked me to fill in till the other mower got better so I went up and told him I would charge him my price of $125 and the guy said I was very very high priced. Theres 3 1/2 acres of grass plus trimming all grass where you can't mow plus the bushes that look as if they may of been trimmed some time last year is what I told him I was going to do and he said well the normal guy that mows only charges me $30 and I have to do all the trimming. I told him I couldn't even pull in your drive way for that. This is one of those guys that has $20,000 worth of equipment does'nt pay taxes and has no insurance and here I am working my but off for a living and these other loosers that want to mow grass for 1/3rd of what the pro's charge. That like another friend of mine useing his dads dump truck trailer and skid steer and making $200 to $800 a week and calls that living. Its like I told him ya use every thing of your dads and have no money investide you make all kinds of money. Now go buy that stuff and talk about all the money you make.:blob2:

[Remsen1]

I know that the LCOS who don't have insurance and don't pay taxes hurt us legitimate operators, but who is worse...

The person who doesn't pay his taxes or the Immoral, unethical, inefficient, dishonest and wasteful government that makes us pay taxes?

[Guido]

Originally posted by Remsen1
I know that the LCOS who don't have insurance and don't pay taxes hurt us legitimate operators, but who is worse...

The person who doesn't pay his taxes or the Immoral, unethical, inefficient, dishonest and wasteful government that makes us pay taxes?

Whats your point? Are you going to overthrow the gov't? I don't think so, so I guess you'll have to tell everyone to keep paying their taxes cause we have to!!

A law is a law, gotta do it!

[lawnboy82]

what i would like to know is how all these illegals get loans for new vehicles, and insurance for those vehicles, and all the other stuff you should need a green card for, and a legit driver's liscense. how do they do it?

[LoneStarLawn]

Originally posted by lawnboy82
what i would like to know is how all these illegals get loans for new vehicles, and insurance for those vehicles, and all the other stuff you should need a green card for, and a legit driver's liscense. how do they do it?

What does a driver's license and a green card have to do with paying taxes? Or are you changing the subject?

[lawnboy82]

sorry alan- i was just askin though. because in my area a lot of illegals have their own business goin. and i wonder- because we had gotten into talking about loans, and what is required for them. it seems a bit strange to me that a bank would give an illegal alien a loan- the amount isnt important. but its common around here for that to be done- and i know that a lot of them do not pay taxes, and if they do- how can they legitimatley pay taxes without a greencard? and if they dont have a greencard- then how can they have a SS card? or a drivers liscense? i have a cousin who used to be a big wig at the IRS about 1 year ago (retired now) and i had asked her and she said she didnt know how it was possible. this is coming from a woman who had a job 2 ranks below the commisioner of the IRS- no i am not talking about people who you get from equador, or mexico or whatever. i am talking about the people who sneak over the border looking for work.

[Evan528]

Looks can be decieving..... dont assume there illeagal..... I dont see how they could Get a loan if there not paying taxes..... You must show a source of income for a loan!

[Lawn-Scapes]

immigrants get a 3 year tax break...

Anyway... this guy is not an illegal. He's a 37 year old white guy, who already (according to him) has a nice job as a construction foreman that pays $60,000... and already has a nice house. So it's all extra cash money...

[taz72373]

Originally posted by lawnboy82
what i would like to know is how all these illegals get loans for new vehicles, and insurance for those vehicles, and all the other stuff you should need a green card for, and a legit driver's liscense. how do they do it?

I worked for a construction company for about 3 years and about 25 of the 150 people that worked for the company where mexican and about every for months some big wigs would come in from the goverment and alls they wanted is a social seceraty card. They would run those numbers and 9 chances out of 10 the number would show up belonging to some john doe and he died 5 years ago. These people from the goverment never asked for drivers license, insurance or anything like that. Most cases it was SS# then green card.

[taz72373]

Also they can get a SS# if they are illegal from the goverment. Its as simple as the guys with no insurance and not paying taxs. From what a few of these illegal imagrants told me there are people that work for the goverment and alls they do is pull up on there computer all the people that are dead and they have all there info. even SS# they take that SS# and make them SS card.

[SLS]

There was a big bust a while back here in Nashville where these people were making fake SS cards and Tennessee drivers licenses for illegal immigrants.

According to the INS agents and police officials these forged documents were VERY authentic looking. A PROFESSIONAL forgery ring for sure. These cats were making some BIG money too!

It turned out that most of illegals were getting them so that they could go to a bank to cash their checks...instead of one of those Check Cashing places that take half for the privilege.

I suppose that you could use one to apply for a loan or get a REAL drivers license?

[GreenQuest Lawn]

Turn him in and when he is working 100hrs a week to pay off his back taxes then walk up to him and say:


"Don't ya hate guys like me"!!!!!

[Lawn-Scapes]

Todd,

Good one!!!!!!! :)

I just may...

[rdh]

mybe he believes
that the money he makes belongs to him and his family,not some midlevel govermental functionary with a bad comb-over who wants to give it to crack addicts squirting out babies.

[Randy]

As some one said reinvest in your compony it is a good way to keep taxs down and improve your stuff at the same time.It's taking stock in your future.

[HBFOXJr]

I was audited by the NJ Div of Taxation for salles and use tax several years ago. We are strictly legit including OT, benefits and uniforms for employeesn plus all insurances for WC, Liability etc.

The auditor sat right in front of me and told me he pays his lawn guy cash and no slaes tax is charged. It is a taxable service here.

Just like when the State Police Commisioner was let off on a speeding ticket recently.

We can't win.

Oh yeh, I didn't owe any taxes. Don't know if I was dimed out or routine. They were getting on the green industry at the time.