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nematoad
06-07-2007, 12:53 PM
Well, I finally got my John deere running (see "weak spark" thread), it ran for about an hour and then backfired twice made a funny scraping sound and quit. Now it won't start again, but after replacing the spark plug (mmm hmm) and checking for spark (that was ok) I find that the plug is not getting the least bit wet, even when choking. The fuel pump is fine the fuel filter is fine and there is gas in the float bowl. Apparently it isn't getting gas, but I don't know if it is a carb problem or something more sinister like valves or even worse cylinder / piston. Before I have the carb rebuilt is there anything I can do to check on other possibilities? Any help is appreciated.

Restrorob
06-07-2007, 01:02 PM
It most likely sucked a piece of trash into the main jet. Drop the bowl and spray carb choke cleaner with the straw up into the center where the bowl nut screws in and any other ports/passages you see. If you have a compressor blow it out, Re-assemble and try again. Check your tank for trash also.

nematoad
06-07-2007, 01:05 PM
Will do restrorob. I'll let ya know if it works. Thanks again.

nematoad
06-07-2007, 02:58 PM
No joy on the main jet cleaning, restrorob. I took off the float bowl, squirted carb cleaner up in the direction of the main jet and at different angles, then blew compressed air up there. Put it back together, but it still won't start. The plug is still dry. If I squirt starter fluid into the carb throat it will backfire loudly one time. The backfire seems to be coming out of the carb and the muffler. Any other suggestions?

nematoad
06-07-2007, 04:45 PM
Bad news. I decided to take the head cover off and have a look and I found a broken part in there. It is a thin ring shaped piece (only found half of it), to me it looks like maybe a retainer. Could be the spring retainer. I know this is bad. Is there any use pursuing this any further or should I lay the old girl to rest? It is 20 years old. I suppose I could tear it down and rebuild it but it would require a lot of time and tools I don't have access to. In the meantime the grass is getting taller. What is the general consensus out there?

Restrorob
06-07-2007, 07:26 PM
Is there any use pursuing this any further or should I lay the old girl to rest?

If it was running OK before the retainer broke I would replace it and run it some more.

You can do this without removing the head. Rotate the engine by hand to top dead center compression stroke. Remove the spark plug and stick a small screw driver in the hole touching the top of the piston for a gage, Rotate the piston BACK down the cylinder about two inches. Insert 5 to 6 inches of #5 recoil rope (only use recoil rope) into the plug hole on top of the piston making sure to have enough hanging out for removal, Then rotate the piston back up till it hits the rope. This will hold the valves in place providing the piston doesn't move.

Loosen the rocker arm adjuster and move the push-rod to the side and flip the rocker up out of the way of the spring. Install the new retainer on the spring and with a thumb on each side push the spring/retainer down onto the valve stem and have a buddy install the keeper. Put the rocker back in place then the push-rod and just snug the adjuster for now. Move the piston back down the cylinder and pull the rope out. Rotate the piston back to TDC compression stroke then adjust both valves to spec. and off you go to mow.

Here is the adjustment procedure;

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m314/Restrorob/FCValveAdjustment.jpg

nematoad
06-08-2007, 05:03 PM
Well restrorob, I appreciate your info on replacing the spring retainers, however I think I may be headed for a rebuild or the junk yard. I've attached some digital photos of what I found behind the valve cover. The first picture shows damage to the head where the spring is seated. The second pic shows the area "I" where the retainer seems to be missing and "II" the retainer on the good valve. The x marks the area where the damage to the head has occured on the exhaust valve assembly. Finally, the third pic shows the remainders of the broken pieces I found behind the cover. (except for the penny, :laugh: ) I fear some of the metal may have ended up behind the push rods in the crankcase! I guess a rebuild is my only option now. What do you think? Thanks again for your patience.

Restrorob
06-08-2007, 07:36 PM
Well, There's still hope for this engine !

The so called damage to the head is nothing more than the "Spring Seat", The pieces you found is part of this "Spring Seat" and if you do as I out-lined above with the rope and remove the keepers, "Retainer" and spring you will most likely find the rest of the "Spring Seat" still under the valve spring.

There is nothing wrong between the looks of the "Retainers", They are designed differently between the intake and exhaust valves.

You could just replace both intake and exhaust "Spring Seats" part# 16007-2073 and both valve stem seals part# 92049-2223 (while your there) and slap it back together then set the valve clearance and go mow.


http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m314/Restrorob/Kawasaki/FC/FC420ValveTrain.jpg

nematoad
06-08-2007, 10:44 PM
Sounds like a good plan. Thanks for the important info and the encouragement. I would have never known how to, or attempted to fix it otherwise. I will give it my best shot. One last thing, though: if some of those metal fragments got in behind the push rods would they end up in the crankcase and possibly wreak havoc in there? I am going to try to fix it regardless, but wondered what you thought about that.

Restrorob
06-08-2007, 11:07 PM
if some of those metal fragments got in behind the push rods would they end up in the crankcase and possibly wreak havoc in there?

Well, It depends on how much/big the pieces are. Get the rest of it from under the spring and make believe it's a puzzle and see how much is really missing. Looking at the last pic it appears that half is intact, This seat is made from stamped steel so I wouldn't think it would break into small pieces.

Post a pic with it along side of the one from the intake then take it from there.

nematoad
06-09-2007, 12:21 AM
OK, will do. I may not be able to get back to work on it until Monday. I'll post back then. Appreciate all the help. Have a good weekend.

nematoad
06-11-2007, 05:19 PM
Well I am trying to find the parts I need (spring seats and seals) to repair my mower. The dealer wants to sell me 2 kits with a lot of parts I dont need for about 60 dollars.:nono: I found the parts at sohar using the numbers you gave me, restrorob, for about 16 dollars. WOW! Thanx. I also need to order a throttle control lever while I am at it, though. The numbers I have are all Deere numbers. Could you help me out with this? What is the engine spec number and where do I find it?

Restrorob
06-11-2007, 07:04 PM
I also need to order a throttle control lever while I am at it, though. The numbers I have are all Deere numbers. Could you help me out with this?

Post me the model and serial numbers off the unit including any model numbers on the side of the hood and I'll see if I can dig something up.
You just need the lever or the whole control assembly with the cable ? May not be able to get just the lever.


What is the engine spec number and where do I find it?

The spec. number denotes crankshaft style/size and type air filter assembly and other external parts.

Kawasaki puts them on a white bar code label on the engine block near the dipstick tube, But Deere could be different.

nematoad
06-11-2007, 07:28 PM
The code # is fc420v-BS00. The serial # is FC420-008320. I really just need the contol assembly w/o the cable (the lever is bent - doesn't contact the fast idle stop) but the whole thing would be ok. Thanks.

Restrorob
06-11-2007, 07:34 PM
Post me the model and serial numbers off the unit including any model numbers on the side of the hood and I'll see if I can dig something up.



Sorry, I meant all the Deere numbers not engine.

nematoad
06-11-2007, 07:48 PM
oops. the model is the John Deere 175 hydro (Serial No. 475.001- ) I also still have the product ID number if you need that.

Restrorob
06-11-2007, 09:34 PM
OK, This is what I found;


Here is a pic. of your original control from Deere;


http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m314/Restrorob/Deere175ThrottleControl2.jpg


Here is a link to a pic. of one that looks pretty dern close to me;

http://www.stens.com/dealernet/catalog.html?sType=4&cat=5-51&part=290163

And here is a link to where you can purchase it;

http://search.cartserver.com/search/search.cgi?cartid=a-8491&category=Allparts04&keywords_1=.&keywords=290-163&go=GO%21&bool=AND1

Measure the length of your cable to make sure this one is long enough, You can shorten it but you can't lengthen it.

nematoad
06-11-2007, 10:35 PM
That looks like the one. I placed an order and now must wait for it to come in. I hope the next post will be the one that says I am mowing some grass! This is such a great site! Thanks for all the help.

Restrorob
06-11-2007, 11:09 PM
No problem.....http://www.gtr-game.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/tup.gif

nematoad
06-21-2007, 01:35 PM
My parts came in yesterday and I started working on replacing the spring seat and seal. When I removed the spring I didn't find any remnants of the old spring seat! The metal that is damaged appears to me to be part of the head! I suppose if I put the new spring seat over it, it will cover the damage - doesn't seem to have effected the valve guide. I have two problems, though. I was able to compress the spring enough to remove the keeper and get to the seal, but I can't compress it enough to get it back on. Also, I can't compress the intake valve spring enough to remove the keeper to get at its seal. Is there any kind of tool or some kind of jury rigged lever trick that would allow me to compress these springs? The other problem is, of course, where the rest of that metal went. Can you help me out with this?

oops, almost forgot - does the spring seat go on the guide with the concave side out, or vice-versa. I assumed it went on concave side out but I can't tell from the diagram.

nathan3655
07-18-2011, 12:58 AM
Having problems with my bunton fc420v-as12 will only run on starting fluid only. Have new carb, fuel filter, and spark plug. What would be my next step to find out why my engine will not run?

Restrorob
07-18-2011, 10:12 PM
A few things to check;

Are you getting fuel to the carb ?

Fresh fuel with no water contamination ?

Is there fresh non contaminated fuel in the carb float bowl ?

Even though it's a new carb check and make sure there's no trash plugging up the main jet......

nathan3655
07-19-2011, 12:01 AM
Yes, there is fuel getting to the carb. I will have to check on the other things