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CHLANDSCAPE11
06-09-2007, 12:45 PM
Will it ruin the tranny if you put your mower in gear on your trailer to prevent it from moving backwards I have a lesco 48 Wb belt drive. Do most guys just use 2x4s and keep it in Neutral? INputs would be great

Stillwater
06-09-2007, 12:58 PM
Tranny can handel it but you should strap the dam mower down so you dont kill any one in a accident.

IA_James
06-09-2007, 01:20 PM
I leave it in gear, and tie it down. I'm going to go with heavier tie downs though, the ones I have aren't hacking it.

RedMax Man
06-09-2007, 02:52 PM
Get a pair of Fast Straps

J&R Landscaping
06-09-2007, 09:42 PM
I strap all my mowers in. My gear drive mowers are left in gear when they are on the trailer.

johnnywill08
06-10-2007, 10:58 AM
not supposed to leave it in gear on the trailer.... just ask my 36 " that had its tranny replaced... the little "fingers" in the tranny that engage each gear can break or round off over time. i used to leave it in gear, but no more... straps or a pro-locker are the way to go.

Runner
06-10-2007, 11:34 AM
ALWAYS engage it in gear when transporting. I've never heard of tranny failure due to transporting in gear. This may have just been a fluke,..and damaged or defective from something else. Like I say,...in all the years, I have never heard of this happening.

Eric D
06-10-2007, 12:58 PM
Leaving the trans in gear is fine. The loads the gears would see are far less then when you are cutting. I agree with Joe that you must of had some other damge going on that caused your failure Johnny.

As far as strapping down your unit, doing so might even save your own back-side in the case of an accident, let alone others.

Eric D

YukonG
06-10-2007, 01:32 PM
Why not use the parking brake instead of putting it in gear?

MikeLT1Z28
06-10-2007, 02:04 PM
if you are using straps it shouldn't matter if it's in gear or not. if it's tied it shouldn't go anywhere.

Bigray
06-10-2007, 02:42 PM
heard a rumor many years ago of a individual transporting his car, he had left it in gear.

seems the rocking / jaring of the trans. did a deal on the motor, if i recall it had rub some of the lobes on the camshaft and would not run right.

something to consider when hauling.

Eric D
06-10-2007, 03:22 PM
heard a rumor many years ago of a individual transporting his car, he had left it in gear. seems the rocking / jaring of the trans. did a deal on the motor, if i recall it had rub some of the lobes on the camshaft and would not run right.

Your right about it being a rumor, sounds like a good pub or bar room story to me. I donít buy it, unless the car was rolling the full length in the back of a 40-foot long semi trailer. The amount of movement at the valvetrain would be small if any. Just me humble opinion.

Eric D

LCPullman
06-10-2007, 07:33 PM
For my gear-drive mower, I use a Pro locker and put the brakes on, that keeps it in place really well. I leave the tranny in gear, but the belts aren't engaged (the handlebar is in brake/neutral mode).
On my hydros, I just use the Prolocker and leave it in drive.

Turfdude
06-10-2007, 09:15 PM
For transporting - in gear, belts engaged.... at the end of the day, in the shop, brakes locked to avoid extra belt stretching. Tie down straps... I guess could be helpful. Most of our props are < 5 mile radius and we are almost exclusively in 25 mph neighborhoods driving no more than 3/4 mile between jobs.

Richard Martin
06-11-2007, 05:20 AM
My GD goes to the front of the trailer with the parking brake set. I also bolted a 3/4" round pipe to the deck of the trailer right behind the drive tires. It doesn't go anywhere.

johndeerefan
06-11-2007, 09:32 AM
you can leave it in gear no problem thats how I transport all my walk behinds. You should also check out those tire holders that bolt to your trailer sorry dont know what it is called.

Mark in MD
06-11-2007, 09:47 AM
The real old style gear boxes seem fine with leaving it in gear.

The peerless transmissions -- I'm not sure about. They do break. Is it because they were left in gear or just regular use? I don't know.

Seems to me if you drive sanely, they should probably be okay. If you have cowboys driving your trucks and they enjoy slamming into speed bumps at 30 mph, maybe leaving them in gear is a bad idea.

tallimeca
06-11-2007, 02:00 PM
DON'T LEAVE THEM IN GEAR!!!

You have 4 little clutch fingers that hold all that weight and they will break. Happens all the time. Peerless number 78209A.


There's a reason why the machine has parking brake position on the hand grips.

If your controls are adjusted correctly, they should work fine but they should be strapped down as well. I know I know, it's a pain in the ass, and i don't blame you but 90 percent of damage to your equipment happens on the trailor.

Most common failures for frame and hydro wheel motors is because they bounce up and down on the trailor.

johnnywill08
06-11-2007, 04:38 PM
DON'T LEAVE THEM IN GEAR!!!

You have 4 little clutch fingers that hold all that weight and they will break. Happens all the time. Peerless number 78209A.


There's a reason why the machine has parking brake position on the hand grips.

If your controls are adjusted correctly, they should work fine but they should be strapped down as well. I know I know, it's a pain in the ass, and i don't blame you but 90 percent of damage to your equipment happens on the trailor.

Most common failures for frame and hydro wheel motors is because they bounce up and down on the trailor.

i literally just replaced mine b/c i was taught to leave it in gear and the mechanic showed me what happens (or can and did in my case) when left in gear....

Mark in MD
06-12-2007, 09:44 AM
I would like to see more details on this.

Is there any entry in any manual for a mower with a peerless trans that expains specifically that these mowers should not be transported in gear?

What exactly happens to a mower on a trailer, and why is it more damaging during transport than during mowing?

It occurs to me that during mowing, the trans is pulling the mower forward. But when sitting on a trailer, and the trailer brakes, the mower is pushing against the transmission cogs from the opposite direction. The wear or stress would not be the same as during mowing. And we all know the reverse on these mowers are "helper" reverse, not true reverse.

So is it possible the transmission is not engineered to handle "backward" stress as well as it handles forward stress?

Yesterday I saw a mower on a trailer facing backwards. I couldn't imagine any reason why somebody would load their mower on backwards. But maybe the reason is wear on the peerless trans?

What if we left the mower in reverse after loading it on the trailer?

Richard Martin
06-12-2007, 10:03 AM
Is there any entry in any manual for a mower with a peerless trans that expains specifically that these mowers should not be transported in gear?

And we all know the reverse on these mowers are "helper" reverse, not true reverse.

So is it possible the transmission is not engineered to handle "backward" stress as well as it handles forward stress?

The parts that almost 100% of the time goes bad in the tranny are called "shift keys". They slide back and forth across the main shaft via the shift collar and they have small fingers which engage the selected gear. The damage is usually cause by improper shifting. The drive belt clutch must be fully disengaged before shifting occurs or you will damage the shift keys.

Addtionally, the problem with reverse isn't a issue with the Peerless tranny, it's an issue with the lame belt drive system that most mower companies choose to use. A properly designed belt drive system will allow full reverse power. Toro T-bar mowers have a reverse and the old Gravely's with dual idlers had true reverse.

Eric D
06-12-2007, 10:51 AM
Photos of these broken parts from leaving in gear on a trailer would be of interest.

I would also like to understand how force is transfered through to the "shift keys" while on a trailer. It would seem to me the force would be put through the gears, not the "shift keys". What am I missing here?

Eric D

Richard Martin
06-12-2007, 12:48 PM
I would also like to understand how force is transfered through to the "shift keys" while on a trailer. It would seem to me the force would be put through the gears, not the "shift keys". What am I missing here?

The shift keys slide in a slot cut into the main shaft. The fingers that I referenced above are a part of the shift key. The fingers move from gear to gear engaging that particular gear and in effect locking it to the main shaft. You are right, force is exerted on the gear that is engaged while it is also on the main shaft and the sihft keys.

These fingers that I keep referencing need a little explaining. They aren't much. They're basically little bumps that stick up above the main shift key a small amount and are a part of that key. It doesn't take much to damage them. There are slots cut into the inside of the gears that the fingers move into. Now if those gears are being driven by the engine while under load you are trying to force the fingers from one gear that is spinning at X RPM to the next gear that is spinning at Y RPM. It's that grinding as you try to force it from gear to gear that damages the fingers. You won't hear it grind but you may notice that you have to force it to shift if the clutches aren't fully disengaged.

tallimeca
06-13-2007, 12:47 AM
www.odref.com/peerless/700-SERIES/700-757A.PDF

Look at this diagram.

Number 8 and 8A are the shift keys.

These are what actually holds your machine from rolling. NOT Good.

The wheel pullies are linked to the drive belts, linked to the jackshaft pulleys, which are coupled to the trans output shafts. When you put the machine in gear, it puts the trans gears engaged into the pinion shaft. The trans gears are sitting on the trans output shaft and linked by these shift keys. The first point of weekness would be belt tension. So under stress, the wheel pullies could slip past belt tension, causing the machine to roll.

But, if the belts and pullies are in good shape, the next point of failure would be the couplers.......which would never break in this manner. The next point is what is stopping the shaft from turning and rolling, and thats the keys.

Usually what happens is it rounds the ends over from holding the gears and rocking back and forth, eventually wearing them down which wears down the contact of the keys on the gears, which eventually causes slippage. Makes a bad grinding noise.

Also, shifting gears while moving under load can do the same. You are supposed to declutch wheel drive belts, shift, then let them back out.

I know .......who the hell does that?:rolleyes: Even i'm guilty of that one.

Mark in MD
06-13-2007, 08:50 AM
Okay. So, in conclusion...

...to prolong the life of your peerless trans, you want to always shift while the wheels are fully disengaged. Then let out the clutch gently and gradually.

And, the reason we don't want to leave the machines in gear on the trailer is because of the SUDDEN (not gradual) stress on the "weakest link" within the trans, which would be the fingers or keys as described above. This SUDDEN stress is from truck/trailer braking, pot holes, speed bumps, etc., and also from the slight rocking forward and backward that the mower does while resting in gear on the trailer.

So it's best when loading the trailer to take an extra couple seconds to put the trans in neutral, then apply the parking brake with the hand controls.

Is this a fair conclusion?

Thanks!

Richard Martin
06-13-2007, 02:44 PM
So it's best when loading the trailer to take an extra couple seconds to put the trans in neutral, then apply the parking brake with the hand controls.

Is this a fair conclusion?

It's what I've been doing since the beginning. My 2005 Ferris gear drive didn't come with a parking brake so I modded the thumb locks and added it.