lawn care as a culture

[lawnboy82]

first off- i dont want anybody to get offended by what i am about to say, and also i know i am the last person who should be talking about this. however-

we all talk about cheap customers, and scrubs, and all these other financial challenges, provided by co-workers, and customers. whacky customers too. why is it that we as LCO's attract this kind of treatment? now granted i dont know anything about being a lawyer or doctor, etc. but do they really have to worry about a scrub? or cheap customers? why is it that the green industry in general attracts so many people? its hard to put what i am thinking into so few words. but the other day i was doing some banking and i saw a station wagon with a ladder and grass gobler on the top, and a cheapo trailer on the back with a lesco mower. i saw this rig once before and i remember it as being an older guy. why is it that people who were once IBM'ers or phone company guys, you name it- they retire and go to work cutting lawns? they have a degree in whatever they have a degree in- those of us that have degrees, we have it in god knows what. why is it that we look for high school dropouts and illegal aliens to work for us? this is not a recent problem- it is a problem that has been around for many years now. when we go to work for a doctor or lawyer who goes and charges lets say $600 per hour- cheap- and we do some work and want lets say a rate of $85 per hour to trim hedges, and we are high? how come younger guys nowadays want to get into cutting grass when they are 13 or 14... 15, etc. what i am trying to say here is- why is it that when somebody wants to become a doctor they must go through many years of schooling. yet when somebody wants to open an LCO all they have to do is start talking with people. as far as equipment and liscencing etc goes both proffesions require it. i ask about the schooling. i am going for a degree in turf. so it would only seem logical for me to work on lawns. now somebody who has a degree in business management why wouldnt they go to work for a large company doing something? this is what i dont understand. also- i have noticed that the quality of people who do landscaping- a good deal are not um, how to put this nicely- couthe? we have racists, antisemites, bigots, you name it. i- as some of you know am jewish. i have had other LCO's state right in front of me knowing that i am jewish that some of their largest accounts are dirty jews. others reffer to black people as the "N" word. we all know the names used by many to reffer to hispanic people. we go after work to cheap bars and get drunk. would a doctor do that on a regular basis? how many of us eat food that you would never know what it was before it was a big lump of blue? why cant we ask for $500 per hour? why is it that we must settle for however much per hour and be surviving. when a doctor or lawyer can charge however much they want and be thriving and living in massive homes? how many of us will ever own a home like Eric does just by doing landscaping? i dont understand it? i can go on and on and on here- but i would like some answers. we talk about scrubs on here all the time- but what is it that attracts them?

[lawnboy82]

and one other thing- when it comes to working for the state and governement and whatever- the kind of stuff that paul does cheapest bid gets it. now when the governor of your state needs to see a doctor- do you honestly think that they go to the cheapest doctor they can possibly find?

[Scraper]

Ah the answer to the jibberish has been found.

[watatrp]

You sound as if you are trying to read too much into this business. All we are doing is providing a service for those that don't want to cut their own grass. It's all a matter of supply and demand. If you do a good job, then you get the better accounts eventually. In my case, I have so much work that when someone asks me if I can take on their property, I give them a high quote. Most people won't pay and look for the lowballers. Then there are those that will pay good money for a good job. There is money to be made in this industry for those that take the time to do things right. Having been in the business for over 15 years, I've seen them come and go. I don't worry about scrubs or lowballers. If someone wants to take my account then they can have it because I've got a waiting list of people that want my services and are willing to pay for them. In 15 years, I've never lost a customer to competition.

I guess my attitude is that if I worry about the job that I am doing instead of what everyone else is doing, I am better able to do the excellent job that my customers want and pay for. As far as all the people starting up in the business, it's pretty easy to land an account. the measure of success is keeping it.

And yes, some of your remarks are offensive. But that's your right to make them. I'm hoping that you have a better day tomorrow. The only reason I have this much time to contemplate your post is because it's raining.

[AltaLawnCare]

Uh, what was the question?

I blame caffeine, and the generation X for most of this.

[HBFOXJr]

My cryptic thoughts

It's a blue collar "sport".

Attracts social misfits that can't work well and socialize with others.

Poorly educated.

Lack of thought processes.

When you look at some posts, the guys are working alone, and are insecure about relating to a customer.

Complains about getting money tied up doing a job. Ask for a check. Seems simple to me.

Complains about picking stuff up in order to mow. Tell the customer to have the lawn clean on a certain day.

Contracts. Ooooh, scary word. Would rather work verbally with no rules to safe guard either party.

Would rather ask other uninformed people on a website than seek professional info from a product or material manufacturer, supplier, county extension service or university website.

Too lazy and don't understand the relevance of size and time so they don't measure and don't keep track of time.

Are small business addicts who think volume cures everything if their not making enough money.

They are in a state of denial and brag about their hourly or job earnings either not understanding or misrepresenting both. $40/$50 an hour cutting grass. Yeh maybe for on the job time. How about drive time, equipment maint. time, book keeping time. I don't think so. Put all the hours together and what are they grossing per hour?

See my recent post in Irrigation about pricing sevice work.

Look how few questions there are under business issues. They are like ostriches.

And if you moonlight, why not maximize your earnings?

And there is a lot more I could vent on.

[skipwatson]

Well, LB, you're all over the place--from scrubs to racists. But as far as "scrubs" go, you'll find them in every trade and profession. Yep, there are even attorneys who are scrubs. Just look at the personal injury commercials on TV. What are those guys but scrubs and ambulance-chasers. What do you suppose the "traditional" atty says and thinks about them?

I've been a real estate broker for 16 years. There's a saying in that industry, if you can't do anything else, you can always sell real estate. It takes less money, less education, less intelligence, and virtually no equipment, to become a real estate agent than it does to become a lawncare professional. And the irony is that real estate agents are selling most people's largest investment: their home.

I think in every business everywhere you'll find scrubs and racists and bigots and stupid people and smart people and good people. Know why? 'Cuz we're just people. And most of us are simply trying to do the best we can.

Whew! Did I just lose it or what? :eek:

[kutnkru]

Originally posted by Scraper
... jibberish ...Is this not considered profanity by the Amish??? :laugh:

[MJ]

The answer to most of your questions is - Because it's so easy. All you need to start a lawn care company is a lawn mower - which most people already have. If you really want to be fancy, you get a Homelite weed trimmer. Now, if all I needed to be a surgeon was a scalpel....

[lawnboy82]

i dont know what to say :alien: yes we are providing a service to people who cannot do it themselves. however- does not a doctor do that very same thing? and really a doctor works on people- treats them when they are ill- when they have an injury- and just for your regular maintenance- your shots, checkups, etc. as an LCO- do we not operate on a lawn every week (cutting) do we not vaccinate the lawn against problems (fert / pest) do we not rectify problems that occur (fung / aerate / etc.) i really hate to think that all i am doing is providing a service. why does a doctor become a doctor- not to provide a service- but to help people and save lives. i could be picking up garbage, or shoveling manure, or god only knows what else and still be providing a service. i dont wanna be in a proffession where the people are like you say- uneducated, and social misfits. and that is the way we are looked at overall by the public. if you put a doctor or lawyer or banker together with a landscaper. who do you honestly think will get more respect- if they both act the same- and they both dress the same. i am not talking personally- i am talking about as a proffesional. anybody can go put on a suit and look good- but i dont know- i just think that is unfair that some of us go and get the degree in what we do- landscape contracting / turfgrass management / horticulture / arboriculture / and then there are the bulk of the businesses who have a degree in business management, or civil engineering, or teaching, or whatever your case may be. then there are those who just dont have any degree at all. its like landscaping is a last resort- everybody does it. because its easy you say? because its easy? lets see how long it takes you to get to know all you would ever have to know about landscaping? it would take a long- long time. this is also why stone pisses me off saying that he can go in 4 weeks and learn more about just turf than i will in 2 years, at a well known and respected institution.

[kutnkru]

Originally posted by lawnboy82
... dirty jews ... black people as the "N" word ... reffer to hispanic peopleTo me the answer to remarks such as this are very simple.

If one of Jewish decent is called a "Kike", or a Black a "Negro", or a Mexican a "Wet-Back" my question to my friends of these ethnic backgrounds is: Are You?

The answer is of course - No. Plain and simple. It does not take a rocket scientist to see that Racism and Bigotry are not only prevelant but run rampant thru our society.

The problem is that these toxins that plague us as a Race cannot be understood enough by people like yourself to find the cure.

When I was growing up if someone stole a purse from someone in our neighborhood, we tracked them down and stomped mud-holes in their chests.

If someone was crazy enough to speculate negatively on someones ethnic origin, it could have turned out to be detrimental to their health.

Its very simple in my mind. These things happen because we let them. The raceism will continue because we let it. The infusion of less than desireable Contractors into our Industry will continue to happen because we let them remain that way. Instead of letting them muddle thru, lend a helping hand!

Children have access to computers that are not in the Family Room's of homes where they should be to prevent them from "Searching" an adult network of knowledge and events that are not suitable for younger eyes. They are allowed to be "Nannied" by a means of Racism, Death, and Destruction - instead of having family intervention.

It all comes down to education and taking the time to "Teach". We teach our children manners. They say Please and Thank You. They pick up things that are dropped by the elderly or handicapped. They are taught and these teachings are emphasized on a regular basis. Its not just well I told you, or you read it - so now your ready to take on life.

I still ask my parents questions. I even ask my children questions so that I can understand where their perceptions are. You cannot teach or change things if you yourself do not understand.

They are taught that interaction with others is part of the cure to Social Disfunctions. Instead of running away or laffing at what you dont understand - turn an open ear, read, ask questions. Most of all be compassionate.

Hopefully, when they are in college we will have done our jobs as parents so that they will understand "Why" things are, and rather than wander aimlessly thru life they will be able to rationalize how to "Teach" others how to suceed or whats helped them get as far as they have.

This board is meant to be here as a vein for knowledege, unfortunately at times its a chatroom for people who cannot disconnect with the negativity that continues to keep their business a failure.

Soap Box is open!

[Guido]

and its not my time to speak yet, I'll wait a bit on this one.

ex-lawnboy82, I want to know one thing from you. I want to know why a high school graduate can't learn to put capital letters at the beginning of sentances?

It can be a few things.

1. Laziness........PURE LAZINESS. Moving one finger to press the shift key is asking waaaay too much.

2. Un-Educated - Maybe they don't teach real world skills anymore in school, maybe they just teach kids to whine about anything and everything around them instead of helping the problem. Sorry, I have no cheese to go with it!

3. Ignorant - Maybe its done just to be different?? Can't be normal, like the attention??

Just wondering. I'd really like an answer.

BTW - A doctor can charge $100 an hour because all the doctors realize that people NEEEEEEEDDDD their service and can get a premium price for it.

A lawnboy like yourself can not charge $100 an hour for 2 reasons. 1. One of your buddy's cousin's brother-in-law's mexican workers will do it on the side for $5 an hour.
2. Most people don't NEEEEEDDDD us. Its a luxary to have a maintenance contractor for anything. They couldn't justify our service at an unreasonable price.

I personally do not carry on the dumb construction worker traditions of poor customer service and lack of business knowledge. I know what I'm worth and I know what I have to make and how to go about doing it in a profitable manner. I CHOOSE TO BE EDUCATED!!! I WILL MAKE A CHANGE!!! You can't just cry about the flood, it only adds more water. You smell what I'm stepping in???

[MJ]

I said before in another post - I own a landscape company. I am insured as a landscaper. I could advertise and do work as a landscaper. However, I have no landscaping knowledge, equipment and have never done any landscaping work. A lawn care company? That would be included with landscaping, if I wanted. Someone asked why I'm insured for something I don't do - it's because of the insurance classification system for what I do - snowplowing. I guess I could call myself a medical doctor, lawyer or whatever else I wanted, but as soon as I prescribed medicine or presented evidence to a court, I might have a little problem. My advise to you, Lawnboy, is go to college and become something you like. If that's in Turfgrass, fine. You'll have knowledge that others won't and you can charge accordingly.

Also, if you kill someone's grass, it will likely grow back or you can correct your mistake. A doctor can't and buries his mistakes. Then his malpractice insurance pays

[HOWARD JONES]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by lawnboy82
[B]first off- i dont want anybody to get offended by what i am about to say, and also i know i am the last person who should be talking about this. however-

how many of us will ever own a home like Eric does just by doing landscaping?



But wait - how did Eric do it?

[Scraper]

:blob3: Bravo Kris and Guido :blob3: You said it all without me having to! Especially the Laziness part!

I believe this is a case of talking just to see yourself talk. We used to have a guy on our crew like this when I was working up in Binghamton area. Had to have quiet time every afternoon just like they do in kindergarten. Like Stone says..."The start of school is near". :blob2:

[Evan528]

He means like the houses Eric Mows! I have many accounts In these neigborhoods that cost 1/2 million to get into..... I dream for a minute how nice it would be....than reality sets in.... These are not "landscaper houses"! Either accept it ot move on to another carreer! It often bothers me.... Most of my customers in these neiborhoods dont seem to eben work 1/8 as hard as I do. All day there back and forth in there Benz doing un work realted things! I Know our services are worth double than what were charging for them..... only way we are ever going to get it is if some how landscapers decide as a whole to charge what we are worth.... You dont see some doctors charging 30 bucks an hour.....

[crazygator]

Matt,
Why oh why do you continue to question the business you have been in, and the business your school degree will be associated with? Seems to me, if you are paranoid or question everything you do, you will NEVER GET ANYWHERE! Stop looking behind you and go forward.
I dont want to live in a 1/2 million dollar mansion, why? I dont need it to be happy or secure. I have a 14 month old little girl and a wonderful wife who mean the world to me. No amount of money, or possession could ever equal what I have. If you want or need the big house or money, the easiest way to gain it is to marry a girl from a rich family. Otherwise, stop whining about what we do, and either move forward or change your profession. And dont you Matt take offense at what I say.

[Guido]

Your still young, and from what I can see from the outside looking in is that your doing okay for yourself and your definetly on the right track.


My suggestion to you is to not sell yourself short. Especially not this early in your life. If youy save right, and invest your money wisely you can have a house like that.... NO, better than taht.

There are ways besides "mowing grass" in this industry to make money, some much more profitable. You have to seek what works and you can have a place like the ones you daydream about. Whats stopping you?

Geeez...... I feel like an insperational speaker or some crap, sorry to get mushy, but I don't like to see people especially in our age group sit and accept a stereotype.

Good Luck, and you owe me dinner at your new house when you get it someday!

[lawnworker]

Doctors have 8 years of school .Lawn care workers have anywhere from a kindergarden education to college degrees.I know myself i have very poor spelling and writing skills.In school i learned alot about drugs thats about it.What i have learned i have learned after i straightened my life out about 15 years ago .The point i am trying to make is education = success and i wish i had done things differantly in high school all those years ago.and went on to get a degree-however many people have the skills to do very well in life with limited education .All of these posts bring up some very good points to ponder.


lawnworker

[lawnboy82]

MJ- a doctor's field of study is homosapiens. Our field of study is lawns and plants. Both lawn care professionals and doctors must have insurance in case they screw up. Granted the consequences are worse if a doctor's patient dies. But if we allow a lawn or plant to die, are we not at fault? Is a lawn not our patient? Should we not know how to save a lawn?

[John from OH]

What separates doctors and lawyers from landscapers is the perceived and real value of their services. As has been stated, practically anyone can and does care for lawns, not everyone could tackle the education and dedication to become a doctor or lawyer. It's easy to compare treating plants to treating humans. But, doctors are held to a higher standard simply because human life has a different value to society than plant material. Another perceived value is the education of the Doctor verus the average lawn care person. The postings on this board are a great example of the disparity in education. Doctors, in general, are highly educated, articulate, and so are held in high regard. I know of many sucessful and well to do landscapers. Not one of them plays the victim card, they all buckle down, do what they can to promote themselves as professionals, and prove their worth to the general public.

[grassyfras]

Most people are lazy. That is in our work ethic. All my life I have gone to a private school in a nice area and i am lazy most the time except when it comes to my lawn buisness. I am 15 with a fairly prophitable buisness for myself. It suplies me with pleanty of money and i spend little time on it per week. Only about 2 daysa week. Like everyone said mowing lawns is not that hard to get started keeping it going is harder but most people can do it if they look into it enough.

We can own house that eric mows. but the owners of those company dont mow lawn ever all they do is own the company. Like brinkman and Top care and all those other companies. That is my ultimate goal is to own a company like that.

[MJ]

Did anyone else notice that Lawnboy82's sentence structure, punctuation and capitalization improved dramatically?

[joed]

Very interesting comments by everybody. Lawn Care is regarded with apathy by much of society because of the seemingly simplicity of it. Anyone from a 12 year old to a senior can mow a lawn. After all, it's the machine that does the work. This is the way that society views people in this field. On top of that the lack of regulations to entering the industry has lead to an overwhelming supply of LCO's chasing after a dwindling amount of clientele.

However, when you dig beneath this narrow vision, you can quickly see that being a true professional landscaper would require a significant amount of education and large body of knowledge. Nonetheless, it's shame to think so negatively of ourselves. We are providing a service to the public regardless of whether or not they can do it themselves. Just like the public chooses not to cut their own hair, educate their own kids, pull their own teeth, defend themselves in court and so, so too do they decide not to maintain their yards. Their is no shame in providing this service to them. On top of that, I strongly disagree with judging a person by their level of education. Just because someone wasn't successfully academically, it in no way makes them a lesser person. We all of our unique talents to contribute to the world. Perhaps, for many people education isn't one of them. That's fine. As long as you work with your talents to give back to society, there is nothing wrong with that. The problem with our society is the social status attached with education. Yet, this is somewhat hypocritical when you think about. After all, lots of people place a high price tag on educated people but look what we do to those people that provide us with that education, the teachers. We (society) treat them very shabbily, unfortunately. I am getting off topic. Anyhow, don't regard landscaping as a useless task. Think about it as an art.

[Evan528]

Thanks for the Inspiration Guido! lol! Expect Your invitation in 2-3 years, although it wont be a 1/2 million dollar house! Cross you fingers for me!

[Vandora Lawn & Landscape]

I'm 19. I'm starting my freshman years of college. I consider myself a professional landscaper. Primarily, a professional. Why is that? I act professionally. I return calls promptly. I dress well, khaki's and polo when I'm meeting with clients. I do what I know how do to. I have subcontractors who work for ME when I need to offer services to my clients that I cannot provide. I may only do this part time, but I want to grow my business to be full time. I am lucky to have as a friend of mine the owner of a large tree company. He is a professional. I have modeled my behavior off him. He does have something I don't have. He has experience. He has been trimming, prunning, fertiliing, whatevering trees for 30+ years. That's the one area where I fall behind all the other professionals in my area. My prices are accordingly lower. Their, the professionals, time is worth more than mine for that reason. They have more experience. Am I a professional? I think so. I follow the rules, I pay taxes, insurance, follow safety procedures, etc. What do you think?

[kutnkru]

MJ
I too noticed this as soon as I read his rebuttal to your post. In all fairness, to give credit where credit is do - I think that was one of the best answers to a comment I have seen in a long time.

JOHN
I dont think that Society has such the high regard for human life as we may perceive. If this was so true - than why do so many people destroy what should be the most valued living organism without regard to consequences or penalty.

I think that it is unfortunate LIFE being the short journey it is, there is not more respect for it.

JoeD
I think that you hit the nail right on the head with your thoughts about our Industry being more like "a work of art". This makes sense when you think about it that with so many freelance artists out there it is only a select few who will be as revered as Michelangelo.

[lawnboy82]

This is the kind of discussion that i had been looking to spark. One that involves thoughts about something other than just cutting grass, or planting plants, etc. A discussion about mentalities, and moral dilemas. Thank you all for your replies. By the way- Vandora- what is your intended major?

[lawnboy82]

I would just like to add something. As has been stated by myself and others in this thread anybody can cut grass. Probably anybody can plant plants, do masonary work, do tree work, etc. They can do this work, the way that we separate ourselves from these "anybodys" is that we can do the work in a high quality, and safe manner. This of course means that; plants that get planted for the most part live full lives. Walls that are built stay up and retain their proper structure for years and years unless there is some form of major catastrophy. Lest we not forget my personal favorite, tree work. We had a guy on arboristsite a week or so ago asking how to prune some branches. He will surely wind up doing some damage and getting himself hurt. A properly trained proffesional, the risk is still there (risk never leaves any of our jobs) but the odds of that mishap occuring due to something we could have avoided is decreased severely. I still do feel though that in order to really be a professional landscaper, lawn care profesional, or arborist. That a person should either have several years of working as an apprentice to a highly skilled professional. Or that the person should have a college degree. Just wanting to work is truly a great thing, but doing a job without a proper background in any field is foolish.

[MJ]

Good luck to all you people heading off to college or back to school. Though luck really has little to do with it. By the way, Lawnboy, in case you don't know, I'm also Mick on PlowSite.

[cantoo]

Anyone could buy a Lawn business tomorrow morning and be in business, but I'm pretty sure you couldn't buy a scalpel and be a Doctor by tomorrow night. Of course it takes more than equipment to maintain a sucessful business but still you have to campare apples to apples.

[lawnworker]

You know i would like to add one more thing to this discussion i think landscape design would be cool,but how does one get the nack of it are some just born with it ie knowing what will look good where.I have seen some nice landscaping and i think i wish i could desighn that good
:alien:

[lawnboy82]

This is another point that I am trying to make here. Granted what we do is easy; you get on a machine and go. Trim here, blow there, cut as straight as you can. However a Landscaper does not cut grass 24/7. A landscaper should know about plants, diseases, insects, and a whole mess of other topics. A landscaper should not just get on a machine and cut grass and that's it. That description degrades this whole industry. I feel that this industry is a lot more than just cutting grass. It is a science. Most scientists have some formal training, and a degree or two. I enjoy landscaping, it has become a part of my blood. I hate to think that this is an easy thing to do, and that anybody can do it. I only wish that the CLT liscencing were mandatory. No CLT. No job. Wouldnt that cut down on competition a lot? as well as make the industry all about knowledge, as opposed to who can do the job for cheaper, and who can make straighter lines? The thought of government programs requiring CLT's would actually help us to raise our rates as professionals, and not as the guy who plants plants, or cuts grass, etc.

[snow]

and the saga continues.............






:mad:


bk


those who go in circles shall be known as the wheel

[hustlers]

We as owners and operators should strive to be the
best and produce the highest quality of services.

do not worry about scrubs or new guys because
real customers know QUALITY and pay $$ for it
and cheap ones dont

[GrassChopper]

You know Lawnboy, you are starting to upset me with the direction you are going in your posts. From what I gather, you say that "we" need degrees and formal education to be proficient and professional in this field. This is the same crap that I heard from my previous job. People who are formally educated promote formal education. They believe that the sheep skin makes you better than every one else. I personally believe that a degree does not make the person, that having a formal education should be a benefit, not a requirement.

It really pisses me off when people start touting the virtues of having a degree. I agree that education, and being informed, in any field is a neccessity, however, I do not believe, as you state, that in order to be a professional (note the spelling) you need a degree. Since I personally do not have a degree, does that make you a better landscaper/lawn maintenance provider?

Having a degree in this field will not ensure success or professionalism. It may enhance the level or precision of service, but does not guarantee anything. Dedication, integrity, perseverance and diligence are what seperates the winners from the losers, not a piece of paper saying you know more than I do.

Having "on the job training" may not be, in your opinion, the best way to learn, but for some of us, it is the only way.

You said: "then there are those who just dont have any degree at all. its like landscaping is a last resort- everybody does it. because its easy you say? "

Yes, because it is easy! Lawn service and landscaping are like chess, easy to learn and hard to master. You want to be thought of and treated like a professional? Then act like one.

[kutnkru]

Originally posted by GrassChopper
... You want to be thought of and treated like a professional? Then act like one. YEA!!!! What he said :laugh:

Thats a Fact Jack!!! :cry:

[Rooster]

Lawnboy82,

Hmmm.

What ever happen to the specialized field of study that doctors do?

Like Internist, Cardilogy, Orthopedics, Neurology, Gynocology, Obstetrics, Rheumotology just to name a few.

The above are much more that the study of homosapiens.

Hmm.... Time to hit the books!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[Rodney Johns]

Ok
This is one one the wildest topics I have ever read.
My thoughts.......words I heard from a young age. I use this when I talk to to turf students. There are 2 occupations in life period. You can work for somebody or you can have somebody work for you....and college is the difference for most people. I know business owners who have made millions who only finished high school. Why? They still had knowledge and experience to guide them. College simply gives most people a start on that experience and knowledge.
Scrubs or who ever, without experience and some idea of what is going on, will eventually go away on there own. Yeah I hate it that the a guy with push mower can call him self a landscaper and a guy with a hammer is considered a builder. Truth is landscaping school is tuff and that is why so few people have a formal education in this industry. We have just in the last 10 years went from be called gardners and greenskeepers to landcape designers and superintendents. This is a professional industry which is worth billions to our economy. It is about time people start recognizing that. I have worked hard to get where I am at and love to see people suceed in this industry. Degree or no degree there is a huge need for educated or experienced workers in general. Anyone can agree with that point. I will say I am proud that I had the guts to go to college and don't care who has a problem with that.
Sorry if any of my grammer is incorrect......I found turfgrass more interesting than english 101 maybe.

[lawrence stone]

Ok

This is one the wildest topics I have ever read.

My thoughts...words I heard from a young age. I use this when I talk to turf students. There are 2 occupations in life period. You can work for somebody or you can have somebody work for you.... and college is the difference for most people. I know business owners who have made millions who only finished high school. Why?

They still had knowledge and experience to guide them. College simply gives most people a start on that experience and knowledge.

Scrubs or who ever, without experience and some idea of what is going on, will eventually go away on their own. Yeah I hate it that the guy with push mower can call him self-a landscaper and a guy with a hammer is considered a builder. Truth is landscaping school is tuff and that is why so few people has a formal education in this industry.

We have just in the last 10 years gone from be called gardeners and greenskeepers to landscape designers and superintendents. This is a professional industry, which is worth billions to our economy. It is about time people start recognizing that. I have worked hard to get where I am at and love to see people succeed in this industry. Degree or no degree there is a huge need for educated or experienced workers in general. Anyone can agree with that point. I will say I am proud that I had the guts to go to college and don't care who has a problem with that.

Sorry if any of my grammar is incorrect...I found turf grass more interesting than English 101 maybe.

[Lawn Dog2001]

This is crazy.

It amazes me that people are so caught up in what other people are doing. If you would focus your energy more on what your doing than on who is or isnt a scrub, or what lawn mowing degrees people have, maybe you would get that big house.

I personally feel guilty sometimes about how much money I make. I have a good friend who graduated near the top of his class in business legistics at Penn St. He has a pretty good job now. What I clear nearly doubles his salary and he has student loans.

By the way, I have a big house, new cars, a nice pool. And I owe it all to this industry. If I can do it than anyone can. Im only 26. What I am saying is, SUCCESS IS OUT THERE FOR ANYONE WHO WANTS IT. SO STOP WHINING AND GET AFTER IT.

I am a lawn mower, a landscaper, and pesticide applicator. I am knowledgable in everything I do. When you get your degree the only difference between me and you will be that you have student loans.

As for your comparasins to doctors salaries to ours. That is just sily. It is kind of like comparing an apple to a river. No offence to anyone, but if there comes a day lawn maintainence people make more money than surgeons, there is truly something wrong with our soceity.