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Flow Control
06-13-2007, 08:21 PM
Anything good or bad about the company. Lost a job to someone that was using the PM product and was 7k less.

extlights
06-13-2007, 08:29 PM
Well....I can tell ya that fixtures alone won't condone a 7k difference. Yikes!

NightScenes
06-13-2007, 10:27 PM
Somebody is a better salesman. Remember, you are not selling fixtures, your selling yourself and atmosphere.

Chris J
06-13-2007, 11:19 PM
If the difference was 7k, I'm curious to know what your original bid was and for what type of job? I would imagine that it would be hard to compete against any contractor that is willing to put in a lighting system for free; therefore, your salesmanship might not be the problem just yet.
Could you share a little more info?

Eden Lights
06-14-2007, 12:53 AM
Somebody is a better salesman. Remember, you are not selling fixtures, your selling yourself and atmosphere.

Amen, that will preach.

Flow Control
06-14-2007, 07:08 AM
11 Accent Lights @ $170 each
14 Well Lights @ $160 each
28 Pathway Lights @ $195 each
31 Flood Lights @ $169 each

3 Transfomers & wire installed for @ $2650

84 Lights & transformers/wire installed for $17,629 works out to $204 per fixture. And I had added in the quote $400 that the guy owed me from last year.

Pual you disappointed me, are you saying that the less expensive sales pitch is always the better salesman? If thats the case I am going to get rid of all my insurance and work trucks and just by an old pickup and wing everything. I have known this customer for 3 years since we started to service his irrigation.

NightScenes
06-14-2007, 08:31 AM
I'm sorry that I misunderstood the earlier post. I was under the impression that you were $7k less than the other guy. In this case, he would have been a very good salesman to get an additional $7k on a job, wouldn't you agree? Now I understand that he came in $7k less than you, in which case (seeing your pricing) he won't be in business very long and you will be ripping out that system and replacing it in a couple of years. Then you'll make that $7k and then some because you'll be doing a demo job.

Chris J
06-14-2007, 08:59 AM
The other guy may have came in with a lighting plan with far fewer lights and materials. I see this happen, on occasion, and the homeowner doesn't give you an opportunity to explain that your design is much more complete. The homeowner may simply be looking at the bottom line price. Do you know what the other guy's quote was to include? If it's not too late, perhaps you could explain to the homeowner that your offering is much more for the money?
Just a thought...

Eden Lights
06-14-2007, 09:17 AM
What I was agreeing with is that clients buy you, your company, your design, and your proposal. While we discuss fixtures here over and over, I have only had a couple of customers ask anything about the fixtures other than warranty in the last 8 years. In my meetings I try to stress warrranty and the difference between pars vs. MR's. since par estimates are the low ball estimates as a rule. When you lose a bid just because of price you have to realize that you didn't need that customer most often. If If I feel that me and potential client were clicking and then I loose the bid, I will call and ask in a very nice tone, How did I get beat? Design, Price, or what?

NightScenes
06-14-2007, 09:26 AM
What I was agreeing with is that clients buy you, your company, your design, and your proposal. While we discuss fixtures here over and over, I have only had a couple of customers ask anything about the fixtures other than warranty in the last 8 years. In my meetings I try to stress warrranty and the difference between pars vs. MR's. since par estimates are the low ball estimates as a rule. When you lose a bid just because of price you have to realize that you didn't need that customer most often. If If I feel that me and potential client were clicking and then I loose the bid, I will call and ask in a very nice tone, How did I get beat? Design, Price, or what?


This is a great point. You should ask why. This way you know what needs to be looked at. If it's just price, and all is taken into consideration, so be it. but if it's a misunderstanding or something else that can be fixed, then you at least know where you need to make those corrections.

Pro-Scapes
06-14-2007, 10:09 AM
84 lights is a good sized project. lot of room for variables... Even if he is using a quality light (no clue on pm) he could be using undersized wire and knock off transformers.

The fact the client still owed you 400 from last year should of been a flag. While 400 is not a back breaker its still enough to concern you. Other guy low balled it plain and simple tho.

Chances are at his price he will never return to service that system.

Chris J
06-14-2007, 10:53 AM
We also need to consider why he still owes you the $400 from last year. Maybe he is just a bad customer trying to dodge this debt, or perhaps he's unhappy with you somehow? No matter how hard we try, no one contractor will win every customer. The client will ultimately choose the person that he/she feels most comfortable with and no salesperson is going to "click" with every personality. You'll win some, and you'll lose some for no good reason. That's just the name of the game.

NiteTymeIlluminations
06-14-2007, 11:55 AM
Is it all copper stuff from fiifocus? another one of those guys who say they make their own products??? I love going to home and garden shows and acting like a consumer and burning these guys sometimes..."Yeah we have our own product made for us..." "oh it looks like focus" "oh well we bought the company and they ony make products for us now..." "Oh well hi my name is Doug Ludmann, and i'm a Focus distributor...I never heard anything about this..." "Oh well...ummm..ummm..." "Look son, don't lie to people and you won't look like an idiot..."

i'm not sure if this is the case here but it looks like it...

Eden Lights
06-14-2007, 07:31 PM
http://www.pmlighting.com/store/