PDA

View Full Version : Low Volume Insectcide


PR Fect
06-15-2007, 12:51 PM
Has anyone used their low volume sprayer to spray bifenthrin, merit or some other insecticide? I want to use my ProLawn sprayer to spray for chinch bugs. I would think that the product would not reach the thatch layer, and there for do little good unless watered in. Anyone with a ProLawn, Z-spray, or Permagreen use them for chinch? By not using a tank sprayer,do you still get control even with the low volume of liquid? How about for grubs?

Ric
06-15-2007, 01:11 PM
PR

IMHO low volume is not as effective as high volume lower AI. It cost more to put down High Volume lower AI or less chemicals than high AI and low Volume.

But if you have irrigation and run it right after you spray the low volume can work. The problem comes in getting the customer to work with you on irrigating. That is why I stick with high Volume of at least 5 gallon per thousand. But that is My opinion.

PR Fect
06-15-2007, 01:22 PM
Ric its a high valued opinion by me. One of the first things I learned about 6 years ago was from one of your posts. Thanks, again. The problem comes in were as I do not have a high volume tank sprayer, or do I have customers who will water. Hell I can barely get them to water when we do a new seeding. Rained in is my only choice. All those LV sprayers that are so hot right now, and they only work well with herbicides? Anyone disagree with Ric?

Ric
06-15-2007, 01:42 PM
PR

An other way to go is granules, Not the fast knock down but a greater Residual. Yes I do herbicides as a low volume like everyone else. As for the Spread and Sprays units they do have there place. My spread & Spray is in fact a home made unit on a Walker Frame that is low volume spray.

Tanking and carrying water is expensive. Larger trucks at high insurance and fuel costs. Larger tanks and pumps also. Production wise a Spread & Spray can cover more ground quicker.

PR Fect
06-15-2007, 02:11 PM
Ric yes, I was looking at Lesco CrossCheck for the bifenthrin. $1.35 per K for liquid. $3.65 per K for granular my price. Thats why I want someone to tell me that I can do what I think I should not.:rolleyes:

Ric
06-15-2007, 02:27 PM
Ric yes, I was looking at Lesco CrossCheck for the bifenthrin. $1.35 per K for liquid. $3.65 per K for granular my price. Thats why I want someone to tell me that I can do what I think I should not.:rolleyes:

PR

OMG what rate are you applying?? Or maybe how bad are you grabbing your ankles, Lesco sure isn't giving you much of a break. I can kill chinch bugs on 7 K including stricker for less than it costs you for one K.

ampeg76
06-15-2007, 03:57 PM
PR

OMG what rate are you applying?? Or maybe how bad are you grabbing your ankles, Lesco sure isn't giving you much of a break. I can kill chinch bugs on 7 K including stricker for less than it costs you for one K.

i would like to know what company you get your bifenthrin, if thats what your using, from ha ha ha!

i use 3/4 ounce per k, cost is around $0.63 would love to get 7k at your price:)

next batch of bifenthrin i get will be from helena, i'm tired of getting jacked with by le$co's pricing tiers

Ric
06-15-2007, 05:08 PM
i would like to know what company you get your bifenthrin, if thats what your using, from ha ha ha!

i use 3/4 ounce per k, cost is around $0.63 would love to get 7k at your price:)

next batch of bifenthrin i get will be from helena, i'm tired of getting jacked with by le$co's pricing tiers

76

I am paying $0.43 an Oz for genetic 7.9 Bifenthrin in gallon jugs. I use about the same rate as you do maybe just a little less. I bought Cross Check from Lesco the other day in 3/4 gallon jugs for about what I pay for a Gallon. Truth is I pay more per Oz for dish soap as a surfactant than I do for the Bifenthrin.

Rob.C
06-16-2007, 03:14 AM
I spray talstar and merit at about 225-275 psi, I have the lesco 200gal space saver, awsome unit.

Ric
06-16-2007, 10:06 AM
I spray talstar and merit at about 225-275 psi, I have the lesco 200gal space saver, awsome unit.

Rob C

I am sure you cover a lot of ground in a short period of time at that pressure. Maybe more ground than you plan too.

Rob.C
06-16-2007, 03:30 PM
yeah I cover a lot of ground I do this on my big commercial properties, I have that pressure set but I dont pull the trigger all the way down unless I cant reach a area.

ArizPestWeed
06-16-2007, 04:12 PM
I pay $40 for 3/4 of a gal of Bifen IT .
Don't know that that works out to

Ric
06-16-2007, 06:07 PM
I pay $40 for 3/4 of a gal of Bifen IT .
Don't know that that works out to

AirHead

That is why I call you AirHead. Because you are so smart and can do 5th grade math problems.

Lets us see now. If 3/4 costs $40 then each 1/4 would cost $ 13.33 and multiplying that times 4, the price of a gallon would be 53.33.

If we want to find the price of an Ounce and there are 32 oz in a quart or 3 quarts in a jug of Befin IT. That means for $ 40 you are getting 96 Oz of product. $40 divided by 96 Oz means you are paying $ 0.4166 per Oz. Now if you are using the same rate as Ampeg76 then 0.75 times $0.42 oz would mean you cost per thousand is $ 0.3075 or $ 0.31.

Now to give credit where credit is due. You are paying almost a dollar less per gallon for Bifenthrin.

PS I sure hope your math skills are better when is comes mixing time. Maybe you are just using a splash of this and a Glug of that as your mixing math.

See Dick throw the ball. Watch spot catch the Ball. run spot run.

gregory
06-16-2007, 08:26 PM
damn i thought i was getting a deal when i paid 55.00 per 3/4 gallon

ampeg76
06-17-2007, 06:34 PM
AirHead

That is why I call you AirHead. Because you are so smart and can do 5th grade math problems.

Lets us see now. If 3/4 costs $40 then each 1/4 would cost $ 13.33 and multiplying that times 4, the price of a gallon would be 53.33.

If we want to find the price of an Ounce and there are 32 oz in a quart or 3 quarts in a jug of Befin IT. That means for $ 40 you are getting 96 Oz of product. $40 divided by 96 Oz means you are paying $ 0.4166 per Oz. Now if you are using the same rate as Ampeg76 then 0.75 times $0.42 oz would mean you cost per thousand is $ 0.3075 or $ 0.31.

Now to give credit where credit is due. You are paying almost a dollar less per gallon for Bifenthrin.

PS I sure hope your math skills are better when is comes mixing time. Maybe you are just using a splash of this and a Glug of that as your mixing math.

See Dick throw the ball. Watch spot catch the Ball. run spot run.


anyone that does not figure their costs per rate should take notes with this post, basic business!

i would never turn a profit if i did not use basic math skills

cheers

Ric
06-17-2007, 06:55 PM
anyone that does not figure their costs per rate should take notes with this post, basic business!

i would never turn a profit if i did not use basic math skills

cheers

:confused:

76

This post was intended as a Joke on AirHead who is about to go to the Special Olympic Games. BTW AirHead Good Luck I am sure you will win a metal.

If you think this Micky Mouse math is great I would hate to blow your mind with my Excel Spread Sheets. Every time a product changes price, Excel spits out a new profit margin.

ampeg76
06-17-2007, 11:15 PM
:confused:

76

This post was intended as a Joke on AirHead who is about to go to the Special Olympic Games. BTW AirHead Good Luck I am sure you will win a metal.

If you think this Micky Mouse math is great I would hate to blow your mind with my Excel Spread Sheets. Every time a product changes price, Excel spits out a new profit margin.

trust me, i got the sarcasm, but it seems many people around here have yet to catch on to the basics, i point this out for all the "how do i price" questions out there:)

Ric
06-18-2007, 01:38 AM
trust me, i got the sarcasm, but it seems many people around here have yet to catch on to the basics, i point this out for all the "how do i price" questions out there:)

76

But I am a professional and Know every thing there is to know accept what to charge and how to do the job. Can you help me??

PR Fect
06-18-2007, 05:06 PM
The price quotes I was using where from my Lesco guy. I went back and checked again after you guys posted. I believe it is the price for running a small operation. Or I'm going to Florida to by my insecticide! I know you guys use way more of the stuff than we do here in Wisconsin. Our winter weather is our best control product we have. And it works very well! The rate of application I was quoting was 1 oz per K and my cost is $1.35 per oz for liquid Cross Check Plus. 96 oz's for $130.00. What I endeed up doing for now is using up a bag of DLYLOX 6.2 Granular that I had. Put it down at 2 lbs per K. Paid $35 for that 30 lb bag a wile back. Thats $2.34 per K product cost for those who are still back a few posts. I think my chinch bug program needs more work. Thanks for the input. PR

storm-shadow
06-19-2007, 02:40 AM
Has anyone used their low volume sprayer to spray bifenthrin, merit or some other insecticide? I want to use my ProLawn sprayer to spray for chinch bugs. I would think that the product would not reach the thatch layer, and there for do little good unless watered in. Anyone with a ProLawn, Z-spray, or Permagreen use them for chinch? By not using a tank sprayer,do you still get control even with the low volume of liquid? How about for grubs?

Hi,
I use a Stihl SR-420 Blower/Sprayer ( with metering pump ), 2.0 L/min to 0.5 ULV nozzle's. This is a excellent unit for spraying trees and shrubs. I would NOT recommend this type of sprayer for Lawn applications.
The spray produced by ULV is designed to coat vertical surfaces.I can't imagine accurate calibration on a flat surface.:dizzy:
ULV blowers use air, instead of water as a dispersant, basically it puts out a cloud of pesticide. A ULV nozzle in the end cap of the blower atomizes the product into a 500 cfm airstream, moving at 200 mph.
The mist concentrate penetrates & coats the the plant much more effectively than a conventional sprayer, the underside of the leaves & areas that may not be covered by " traditional sprayers ". The drawback is they are prone to drift & useless for lawns.
When it comes to purchasing pesticide I usually go by the AI/dollar. Onyx and Talstar one are both Bifenthrin. Onyx is 23.4% AI, Talstar is 7.9% AI. ( oz product) X (%AI) then divide the AI by the price = cost/oz
Follow the http://ohioline.osu.edu/sc195/017.html
for a pesticide evaluation for cinch bugs, good info.
Best of luck.
Regards,
Storm-shadow

ArizPestWeed
06-19-2007, 10:49 AM
I have never figured cost down to the penny .
It's impossible to lose money in pest control when you get $45 for using 2 gallons of 'cides at job site , I mean , I know it cost under a buck a gallon.

I would be using Suspend SC but I have a bad reaction to it , much superior product .

gregory
06-19-2007, 11:10 AM
what was reaction to it...

ArizPestWeed
06-19-2007, 11:29 AM
Respiratory , coughing , lots of fluid from nasal and lungs .
It's worse with a new product called "Cyanara " , wrong spelling .
Different version of Demand

PR Fect
06-19-2007, 12:56 PM
Storm-Shadow, thanks for the post. Very good post,for your first? I like how they make it sound in their study that "HCB" problem is the result of professional lawn care. If I ever start spraying shrubs I will look into your method of doing so. My ProLawn shielded sprayer puts out a fine mist also, and you can not beat the control you get over droplets. It just gets into (or onto) the target better.

Ric
06-19-2007, 06:43 PM
Hi,
I use a Stihl SR-420 Blower/Sprayer ( with metering pump ), 2.0 L/min to 0.5 ULV nozzle's. This is a excellent unit for spraying trees and shrubs. I would NOT recommend this type of sprayer for Lawn applications.
The spray produced by ULV is designed to coat vertical surfaces.I can't imagine accurate calibration on a flat surface.:dizzy:
ULV blowers use air, instead of water as a dispersant, basically it puts out a cloud of pesticide. A ULV nozzle in the end cap of the blower atomizes the product into a 500 cfm airstream, moving at 200 mph.
The mist concentrate penetrates & coats the the plant much more effectively than a conventional sprayer, the underside of the leaves & areas that may not be covered by " traditional sprayers ". The drawback is they are prone to drift & useless for lawns.
When it comes to purchasing pesticide I usually go by the AI/dollar. Onyx and Talstar one are both Bifenthrin. Onyx is 23.4% AI, Talstar is 7.9% AI. ( oz product) X (%AI) then divide the AI by the price = cost/oz
Follow the http://ohioline.osu.edu/sc195/017.html
for a pesticide evaluation for cinch bugs, good info.
Best of luck.
Regards,
Storm-shadow


Storm Shadow

The Blower/Sprayer is called Air Blast method of Application and is used in citrus groves and a lot of Agriculture applications because it is cost effective. The Blower cause the leaves to turn so the Application product gets on the under side of the leaf where most insects will hide. I will agree that it is a better method of doing applications on shrubs and small trees and Contact Pesticides can be used more effective. The Tree Huggers should love this equipment even if drift is a much bigger problem. The fact is you can use Insecticidal Soap or Ultra Fine Horticulture Oil and get control with a product have has little of no effect on the environment.

AirHead

Do you figure your taxes the same way you figure your costs?? Or do you even file taxes?

gregory

I left a message on your Cell phone in reply to your E Mail. Call me so I don't have to type so much.

storm-shadow
06-22-2007, 02:29 AM
Storm-Shadow, thanks for the post. Very good post,for your first? I like how they make it sound in their study that "HCB" problem is the result of professional lawn care. If I ever start spraying shrubs I will look into your method of doing so. My ProLawn shielded sprayer puts out a fine mist also, and you can not beat the control you get over droplets. It just gets into (or onto) the target better.

Hi PR Fect,

Thank's for the positive. I don't spray many lawn's, I mainly do "Estate" properties & high-end commercial horticultural service's. I do turf apps. only when the turf may be decimated, Pythium etc....

I wouldn't't take the HCB blame too personally, researchers in the industry don't like the fact that blades don't get sharpened & sterilized between each job. This may be " best practice " , but try making a buck cutting turf that way. :help:
I was Foreman at a golf course for 15 yrs and I can tell you that even with a large budget & staff there are times you cut out the BP, or close the course (which better never happen).
Well any hoot, best of luck with the Chinch Bug's.
BTW, one thing I have found to be universally true is tank mixing Pesticide's ( not in the same Chem. Family, &, @ lower rates ) produces a much better result than a higher rate of a single product.

Best Regards,
Storm-Shadow

storm-shadow
06-22-2007, 02:55 AM
Storm Shadow

The Blower/Sprayer is called Air Blast method of Application and is used in citrus groves and a lot of Agriculture applications because it is cost effective. The Blower cause the leaves to turn so the Application product gets on the under side of the leaf where most insects will hide. I will agree that it is a better method of doing applications on shrubs and small trees and Contact Pesticides can be used more effective. The Tree Huggers should love this equipment even if drift is a much bigger problem. The fact is you can use Insecticidal Soap or Ultra Fine Horticulture Oil and get control with a product have has little of no effect on the environment.

Hi Ric,
I haven't heard the term " air blast " used before, but I don't get out much these day's.:sleeping:
I agree with everything above, I sometimes wonder how much control is from the miticide vs. the spreader-sticker ( non-ionic soap or insecticidal soap). I have had exceptional results with cool season Mite's, which tend to rest under the bark scale of the host plant.
Good additional info.
Best Regards,
Storm-shadow

storm-shadow
06-22-2007, 03:49 AM
Respiratory , coughing , lots of fluid from nasal and lungs .
It's worse with a new product called "Cyanara " , wrong spelling .
Different version of Demand

Hi,
There are only a couple of commercially available pesticides with a low (oral/inhalation) LD-50. One is " deltamethrin " (Oral LD50= 128) AKA- Suspend SC/DeltaGard. The other is " lambda-cyhalothrin" (Oral LD50= 79) AKA CYONARA/,Scimitar/Demand/Karate/..... I have used this product for 10 yrs and frankly it has had more names than a Detroit grifter.:confused: I have a feeling that your reaction was from " lambda-cyhalothrin", have had the same reaction myself.
I recommend, and use, full Tyvec & a full face respirator with permithrin analogs.
Bottom line, you are inhaling too product when you spray.;) I have the same reaction with these products if I don't use full gear.

Best regards,
Storm-shadow

Ric
06-22-2007, 10:47 AM
Hi Ric,
I haven't heard the term " air blast " used before, but I don't get out much these day's.:sleeping:
I agree with everything above, I sometimes wonder how much control is from the miticide vs. the spreader-sticker ( non-ionic soap or insecticidal soap). I have had exceptional results with cool season Mite's, which tend to rest under the bark scale of the host plant.
Good additional info.
Best Regards,
Storm-shadow

Storm Shadow

Google "Air Blast Application" Maybe because I live in Citrus grove country where they have been used forever I know about them. Citrus trees are very Dense with leaves as well as spacing between trees. Air Blast offers a economy way to treat them very effectively. Dense ornamental shrubs can be a PITA to get complete coverage with a standard sprayer the same as Citrus trees.

I might have to agree with you about The Surfactant Soap controlling Mites and not the other insecticides. You made a Big point about Non Ionic Surfactants. Maybe it should be said that the reason for Non Ionic Surfactants is because without a ion charge these surfactants will not react or bond easily to other chemical in your tank and change their Molecule structure. It is when we mix two chemicals of different ion charges that we have a reaction that might sometimes be very unfavorable.