Brand me...........skids and excavators

[tthomass]

I'm looking into purchasing both a excavator and a track machine. Uses are becoming more common and do not wish to waste money on rentals.....though renting does have its benefits.

Track machines I have run:

T190.....good machine, compact lacks balls
T300.....good machine has balls
TL130....good machine, compact lacks balls
TL150....good machine, big balls
Mustang something....T190 brother I'd say

Excavators:

Takeuchi 10k lb
Komatsu 6-7k lb
.....and some others

I'm looking to buy used for both financial reasons and these machines aren't being used heavily day in and day out.

Track machine: I have connections for New Holland and ASV, both I've never used and know nothing about. I would say a 8-10k lb machine is what I'm looking for and mostly so that I have a machine with enough "balls" to move soil and lift........nothing like bogging down and ruining my day.

Excavator: I don't do heavy excavation and when those times do cross my path I rent large equipment. I'd say I'm looking for a 7-10k lb machine. I need to lift boulders for building walls and for general landscaping....which I can also do with the track machine. Nice to have for digging holes for large trees but I'm thinking a 10k lb machine is a bit over the top for me.

So brand me.........I don't know the ends and outs of these machines. Give me a few minutes, I'm used to it and your yard will be smooth as a golf course. I don't know why this brand over that or what problems certain brands have. The benefit of not going past a max of 9k lbs on either machine is that I can have it on the back of the truck and be at my GVW. Will it stop me from buying a 10k lb machine and being overloaded? No but legal is nice just to stay on the good side of the law. I figure I'll be buying a trailer anyway.

So help me please. Perhaps there is more info you need to know from me but branding is branding and I know nothing to base one over another.

Thanks!

[cat2]

Well if you have the money I would go with a John Deere ctl. They have LOTS of power and will lift more than any other machine out there. (I think) Would a wheeled machine work for you? I would get a wheeled machine and put tracks on. You could save alot of payup. They did alot too the new john deere skid steers and are one of the best now.:confused: (Maybe) I have a new 300 seires john deere skid steer and love it.:cool2:

[ksss]

TK makes a nice excavator. I am on my second TB53 series machine. These are 12.5K machines, and may be more than you want. Although I have never owned one the 135 and 145 are popular with those who own them.

CASE/Kobelco machines are not industry leaders in breakout but are nice machines, very nice hyds, and comfortable.

IHI makes a nice excavator, not a well known brand in the States, but most excellent machine. I owned a 35J and put 2K hours on it and had very few issues. It has an exceptionally nice hyd feel to it, very precise.

Tracked machines,

If you could find one used a 440 CT is a very strong machine. Demo one and you will see what I mean. They are selling one after the other here. This is not big tracked skid steer area here, but the power of these machines is selling them.

[RockSet N' Grade]

On the bigger machines, everyone here is switching over to Volvo? Why you may ask? The simple answer from everyone I have talked to is that Volvo machines are burning $100 less fuel a day than the rest of the iron.......plain and simple. Small excavators are so competative you will get more opinions than Carter has pills.......What a major factor in your equation should be is service.......who is close geographically? who provides prompt and reliable in house and in the field service? What financing/rate/terms are available and what kind of warranty and extended warranty is available. What kind of iron are your competator's using? What are the perceptions of the happy-homeowners in your area? Alot of selling a job to happy-homeowners is "perceived value" ie having good looking clean equipment and a rig that they on some level can identify with so they think they are getting value.....I personally use Gehl equipment, take off the stickers and put my own stickers on with my phone number........its yellow iron in clean condition with my logo on it and I always get comments on my rigs plus it is advertising while sitting on a job site or rolling down the freeway. I just got a job diggin a cabin basement from a drive-by on the freeway because of my logo and phone number on the back of my track ho. So back to your question....which machine? Check the financing and service and put that into the equation and then weigh it out.

[tthomass]

Most of what I see around is Bobcat and Deere. I have only begun seriously looking....there is a local CAT dealer also.

What warranty is typical on a used machine from an establishment? I will guess that some is sold as is and some carry a 30 day or so amny hrs....

The clean professional look is not a problem....see the 'International construction' post in the truck forum. I actually got a job because my customer loved blue....hence the abundance of blue inside their home haha.

Aside from my usual 'landscape construction' jobs I would hope to be able to dab into more excavation work with various building contractors.

What hour range should I be looking for? 500-1000hrs?

[SiteSolutions]

I've rented a Takeuchi 135 a few times now and it is strong with a good reach. The hydraulics are a little slow maybe, but it's still a lot of machine for the money.

I've run a few Bobcat skid steers and compact track loaders. I haven't got much time in the other brands. Everybody has their favorite and I think most of the arguments pro and con are just to give folks something to talk about... just the same old Ford vs. Chevy vs. Dodge argument applied to something else. Numbers are nice, but I would just shop around and find what you like; find a dealer or machine that you feel comfortable with.

[Gravel Rat]

I don't know how much money you want to spend but a decent mini is going to cost 60 grand. I would go with the largest size your truck will carry because you want a machine that can do most jobs.

As for brand my first choice would be Deere or Hitachi second would be Kubota and third would be Takeuchi. I would avoid Komatsu they are cheaply built.

[Scag48]

I'll be renting a Takeuchi 135 in the next few weeks. My grandma has some blackberry bushes that are getting out of control that I need to remove and I can't get my old man to haul our mini 160 miles one way to do the job. I'll post my findings on the machine after I rent it. I've picked a yard that has all new 135's so the unit I'll be renting won't be older and beat up, it'll be fairly new so I can get a good idea of how these things should perform..

[tthomass]

GRat....I'm buying used.

It will be this fall that I will make a purchase upon what taxes tell me to buy.

Just from the little bit of shopping I've done.....a mini is looking around $20k and the track machine around $30k for used equip. Not that I wouldn't spend more or even less depending what I find.

[tthomass]

Another idea I toy with is the backhoe attachment vs an excavator. I've used one before but that was 3yrs ago and it was beat up so I don't really remember much about it. Also its what I learned on so I wasn't exactly a pro or have anything to compare to.

[mrusk]

Why are you stuck on the mtl? I have a wheeled machine and my only regret is not getting a 262b instead of my 246b. But overall, my machine has done everything i have asked it to do thus far.

For the excavator, it all depends on what you are doing. I am still subbing all my excavating work out. I proably continue to do so until i can afford to buy a nice machine and single axle dump truck. I figure i am better off not owning a machine unless i am going to keep it busy every day. The way things are going, proably around mid next year i will start looking for a full time operator to hire.

I am in the air on what size excavator to buy. Chances are i am going to buy a 3.5 ton and a 12 ton machine. Alot of my jobs have a ton of excavation. I just need to wait and see what the future holds.

[AWJ Services]

I really like Komatsu mini excavators better than most.
It does not have the pure power of a Takeuchi but the hyd are very fast and smooth.

The TB 145 is unmatched in power for it's weight.
It is however not a zero tail swing.
It will pull a 36 inch bucket even in this hard Ga clay.
This thing digs as good as any backhoe I have ever used.
It also is easy too trailer because of it's weight.
They are pretty good on fuel.
I demoed a Cat 305 and it was a real fuel burner.
Kubota Mini exs are really good machines as well.


The TL 140 is a happy med for size and power.
It will handle pallets of paver blocks and stone easily.
They are inexpensive compared too other machines in there power range.

[Gravel Rat]

I would forget about the backhoe attachment go with a mini excavator. As for price of a mini if your paying 20-30 grand for one it must be well worn out or a gray market machine.

[tthomass]

The $20k is for starting with a 7k lb mini. I have only snooped around on ebay and machinery trader. I'm going to visit some dealers and see what they have going.

I haven't really ever used a mini I did not like but the TB 145 is awsome.

I think for skids I want to go with pilot controls as I have begun crossing over to them and am now just as good with either setup.

Thanks for the feedback....just getting the wheels turning so I know when I've found the right one. Time to start making phone calls....

[SiteSolutions]

I think for skids I want to go with pilot controls as I have begun crossing over to them and am now just as good with either setup.

How long did it take to get to be efficient with pilot controls? I am looking at a new machine soon and I have gotten to where I can drive with pilot controls but am wondering when I will be as good with them as the old stick + pedal setup.

[tthomass]

I had a grading job back in early spring that sat me in a TL 150 for about four days. I had previous experience but that is what really made me learn. If your a good operator you'll have the hang of things in an hour and really have a feel for the machine at the end of the day.

Not to mention my rental company dumped Bobcat which basically forced me to learn otherwise.

[tthomass]

One thing with pilot controls on TL's is that they are touchy. I pull back to idle and still have to really be really careful getting pallets and trees with forks.

This is on both TL 150 and TL 130.

[AWJ Services]

One thing with pilot controls on TL's is that they are touchy.

There is no feedback and a slight delay with the controls which is part of the problem.
You push the control and the machine does not instantaneously move so you move the stick more.
It is so easy too move the stick that you tend too push it too far.
It also has alot too do with how the charge pressure is adjusted as well.

[Fieldman12]

The Deere dozers are made by Liebherr and from what I understand is a very, very good machine. Growing up I always thought the Case looked like a better machine than a Deere dozer. How much of a price difference is there between Cat, Deere, and Case? I figure Komatsu is probably the cheapest priced to buy. I have limited experience on a bulldozer (Cat D4 with a U blade very very old.

[Fieldman12]

Sorry, wrong thread

[SiteSolutions]

I'm trying out a new T-190 with pilot controls right now on demo. I spent all day in it Friday and was able to be productive before long on most things but the lack of "touch" does make it tricky to do the more skilled work. I definitely noticed the lag in the controls; I am guessing that once you get used to how far to push the control for a given response, your brain will compensate just like it learns to do with anything else. The little snail feature seems like it helps when you are working up next to a house.

I guess it reminds me of super-easy power steering like on mid 80's - 90's GM cars... you can't really feel what the wheels are doing through your hands, so you just learn to get your feedback from your inner ear, your eyes, etc...

[tthomass]

I haven't used pilot on a Bobcat.....just TL's.

I think the flow just needed adjusting on the touchiness as I was very smooth at the controls.

[Scag48]

$20K isn't going to get you much of an excavator. It will more than likely be high hours unless you luck out and find something that someone really wants to get out of.

[mverick]

How long did it take to get to be efficient with pilot controls? I am looking at a new machine soon and I have gotten to where I can drive with pilot controls but am wondering when I will be as good with them as the old stick + pedal setup.

I've run bobcat's for years in plants. Case too. Bobcats were alway's touchy while running them. Lil forward and they'd jump. Now, these were well used bobcat's. The takeuchi's will jump if you have the throttle up. If you have it down it walks. Which, is kinda how it's supposed to be. You don't need you're throttle at full blast to inch forward. And, in a bobcat with it at full blast on a hill. Inch forward and bump and you push to far. You just jumped too... Takeuchi's controls buffer the bumps so it won't jump. You can also drive with one hand. Which I like a lot.

I've driven a lot of them and I'm sticking with the takeuchi's now. I've got a old tl26 that run's great. I like the tl150 if you're doing big jobs. The 140 is a better mix though.

Getting used to it? Probably a week and you'd be fine. First day it's gonna be touchy.

[tthomass]

Looking this weekend at:

T190 with approx 450hrs
-heat and AC
-bucket
-forks
-auger
Dump trailer
-to haul

Well maintained, kept under cover and comes through a trusted reference. Guy is 60yrs old and getting out of the business to work for the "reference"/bought out.

$30,000 is asking price. See what I think of it......I've used them before. For the landscape/hardscape use this size machine is better in size for fit in places. We'll see...

[waltero]

Todd,

Glad to see that you are doing well. I just want to throw out an idea for you to think about. I don't know much about your business down there but I was in the market for a mini ex and a skid, I was thinking about getting CAT machines off of Iron Planet, and I was also interested in the A300 and a 430 mini-ex from bobcat, but I found another machine that cost me less and gives me the best of both worlds at a price that I couldn't refuse.

I picked up a Loader/Backhoe that is built like a skid steer with all wheel steering and a large and powerful backhoe that allows me to dig with ease. The specs are attached so give them a look, I know where you can find a machine with just over 100 hrs and it comes with a cab for about $31,000.00

It may not be exactly what you are looking for but it will do a great job for you and will cut down on the amount of rentals that you will need. It will lift full pallets of anything, has aux. hydraulics both front and rear for attachments, 4wd and 4ws, great breakout force, will load a tri-axle and you can also load your truck with the backhoe.

I love mine and I paid $28,000.00 for it but I didn't get the cab. It is great for me because I can get so much more work done and I don't have to worry about the lack of power like I have in my tractor. It really is worth looking at because money doesn't grow on trees, and you could save some $$$$ and still get a good machine. The only problem that I have had with this machine is that it is a little top heavy, but the backhoe is a great counter balance that can be moved, so if I have to go over terrain that is tilted, I just swing the backhoe over to the high side and I can help to counter the tilt. Easy fix.

I don't have too much experience in the skids because I always had my kubota tractor and I made it do all the work I needed to get done, even if it took me longer. I am cheap by nature so I would rather buy then rent and as I already have the tractor I don't want to spend money on renting another piece of equipment. I have used the mini-ex a few times and they are nice but I was looking at spending alot more money if I went the route of two machines vs one. I haven't used a tracked machine on a job site yet so I cannot compare the two. My opinion is that most of the time this machine will do what you need to do and the times when you need a tracked machine or a mini-ex, rental is a good option. At the end of the day this machine will pay for itself over and over again.

Look at the specs and compare them up against what you want to buy and decide if you may be able to use it. It is a very different machine compared to others out there but so isn't that truck that you own.

You will have to follow this other post because I already uploaded the file once and it won't let me do it again. Here it is....

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=183316

Good luck and if you have any questions feel free to ask me.

Walter

[tthomass]

Nice machine but I don't believe its for me. Biggest thing being grading.....box blade etc yes but completely different from what I know. I know skids and mini's. Not that I won't look into the idea of this machine but I just see it being difficult in my applicaiton.

[tthomass]

Nice machine but I don't believe its for me. Biggest thing being grading.....box blade etc yes but completely different from what I know. I know skids and mini's. Not that I won't look into the idea of this machine but I just see it being difficult in my applicaiton.

[waltero]

I can understand that. I got it because of the price and its ability to do so many things. If I could afford the skid and mini combo I would go that way, but I'm not in a position to spend that much money right now.

Good luck in finding a machine!!!

Walter

[tthomass]

Also the T190 and other machines its size allow me to "legally" haul in the back of the truck vs trailer.

Hey Walter, how much weight have you lifted with your winch? I was pushing a good 12,000 lbs today........it didn't like that too much and the hoist was probably 90% up.

[tthomass]

branded....

[waltero]

Todd,

I moved my TLB in the back of mine and I know that was just about 5 ton. I don't lift too much off of the ground.


It looks like you have a nice setup now.


Good luck

[tthomass]

Even lifting this it doesn't really like. It does it though. Do you do any kind of maint on your winch? I've been told just to blow out dust in the coils once a year.

[waltero]

I just grease the spots that need it and I got a spray that I use once a year to lubricate the cable. If you need the info on what kind of spray it is let me know.