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View Full Version : First Lighting job, 20 lights


TXNSLighting
06-17-2007, 09:28 PM
Ive got the pictures on my web site, they are also in the picture forums. love for you guys to check them out and give you thoughts. keep in mind it is my first one by myself so be gentle. thanks!

Chris J
06-17-2007, 10:21 PM
Pictures are regretful, but understandable. When I looked at this picture, my eye went straight to the glare spot where the light source originates :nono:
The most simple aspects of outdoor lighting is to conceal the light source. These well lights are taking control of your whole scene. I can only imagine what this looks like in person.
Strong statement coming up: Well lights suck! I don't use them, and don't like anybody that does. Too much glare, not enough shielding mechanisms and overly expensive lamps. Stop using well lights as the cheep way out. They destroy the lighting atmosphere, and ultimately, the lighting design. There are an abundance of different choices out there that have more shielding and concealing of the lamp output.
2 cents, 4 cents....whatever. I'm not bashing you, I'm just being honest with you. :blob2:

TXNSLighting
06-17-2007, 10:56 PM
well what do you recommend besides well lights??

Pro-Scapes
06-17-2007, 11:03 PM
well a stake mounted fixture :)

TXNSLighting
06-17-2007, 11:13 PM
so a wash or spot? alrght il keep that in mind. the company i worked for over the winter used the wells, so i figured thats what everyone was using. well thats why im here. got lots of learning to do.

Chris J
06-17-2007, 11:25 PM
There are literally hundreds of options because of the abundance of manufacturers. Personally, considering what I see in the picture, I would have used 4 (2 on each tree) Kichler 15384BBR MR16 uplights and cross-lit the trees. Now, the BBR line from kichler is expensive (probably 5 times the cost of your sewer tubes, but there is also a BR line which is brass but not nearly the cost. Even if you used the AZT line, which is very durable and cost effective, you would get much more appreciation for the lighting effects and not so much attention from where the light is coming from.
If you lawn & landscape guys are going to jump on the lighting bandwagon, the least you could do is educate yourself a bit on how to do it properly. Otherwise, you are just dragging down the entire industry much like Malibu did with the home center products.
You advertise everything under the sun on your "signature" as if it were the absolute best right down to the trailer you carry it in! If you are going to participate in the lighting thing, don't you think you owe it to yourself, and your customers, to do it right???? Or at least reasonably appealing???? Again, not jamming on you personally, but there are far too many amatures out there that are giving the LV lighting rep a really bad name. We, professionals are trying our very best to promote high quality, low maintenance lighting systems for discriminating homeowners. Either join the club, or get the hell out of the way!

TXNSLighting
06-17-2007, 11:26 PM
Pictures are regretful, but understandable. When I looked at this picture, my eye went straight to the glare spot where the light source originates :nono:
The most simple aspects of outdoor lighting is to conceal the light source. These well lights are taking control of your whole scene. I can only imagine what this looks like in person.
Strong statement coming up: Well lights suck! I don't use them, and don't like anybody that does. Too much glare, not enough shielding mechanisms and overly expensive lamps. Stop using well lights as the cheep way out. They destroy the lighting atmosphere, and ultimately, the lighting design. There are an abundance of different choices out there that have more shielding and concealing of the lamp output.
2 cents, 4 cents....whatever. I'm not bashing you, I'm just being honest with you. :blob2:

Thank you for being honest. im definately not one to argue with you and tell you your wrong. thats why i put the lights up here, so the experienced guys can throw in their input, and it is greatly appreciated. keep em comin. id love to hear your suggestions on what to use also.

Pro-Scapes
06-17-2007, 11:28 PM
what are thoes ? River Birches ? Is there any lights in the tree ? a single fixture for a tree that size is marginal coverage.

I might of mounted a few on the backside shooting up in diff directions then perhaps place another boulder (or have em placed if the client was cool with it) to hide the ground mounted fixtures. Its still an option now. This is where a demo set is invaluble to a novice designer. We run across situations all the time that has us thinking.... now how the heck would we light this.

TXNSLighting
06-17-2007, 11:35 PM
There are literally hundreds of options because of the abundance of manufacturers. Personally, considering what I see in the picture, I would have used 4 (2 on each tree) Kichler 15384BBR MR16 uplights and cross-lit the trees. Now, the BBR line from kichler is expensive (probably 5 times the cost of your sewer tubes, but there is also a BR line which is brass but not nearly the cost. Even if you used the AZT line, which is very durable and cost effective, you would get much more appreciation for the lighting effects and not so much attention from where the light is coming from.
If you lawn & landscape guys are going to jump on the lighting bandwagon, the least you could do is educate yourself a bit on how to do it properly. Otherwise, you are just dragging down the entire industry much like Malibu did with the home center products.
You advertise everything under the sun on your "signature" as if it were the absolute best right down to the trailer you carry it in! If you are going to participate in the lighting thing, don't you think you owe it to yourself, and your customers, to do it right???? Or at least reasonably appealing???? Again, not jamming on you personally, but there are far too many amatures out there that are giving the LV lighting rep a really bad name. We, professionals are trying our very best to promote high quality, low maintenance lighting systems for discriminating homeowners. Either join the club, or get the hell out of the way!

well like i said, i worked for a lighting company over the winter to learn as much as possible about this business, and this is how they did it. obviously they arent doing it like you are. i really want to join the club! id much rather do lighting than mowing. I am really serious about the lighting business, and want to be very professional about it, hence working for a lighting company over the winter to learn as much as possible. This site has helped me on the lawn biz, and now the landscape biz. theres only one other company in my area doing lighting so theres a market here for it. I really want to do this right and professional. so again all your feedback is important to me.

Chris J
06-17-2007, 11:59 PM
:weightlifter: well like i said, i worked for a lighting company over the winter to learn as much as possible about this business, and this is how they did it. obviously they arent doing it like you are. i really want to join the club! id much rather do lighting than mowing. I am really serious about the lighting business, and want to be very professional about it, hence working for a lighting company over the winter to learn as much as possible. This site has helped me on the lawn biz, and now the landscape biz. theres only one other company in my area doing lighting so theres a market here for it. I really want to do this right and professional. so again all your feedback is important to me.

You go dude! With that attitude you will go far! Contact me anytime for help as I am always willing to help someone who is willing to learn.:weightlifter:

Chris J
06-18-2007, 12:39 AM
You know what, I'm moving to Texas! That is the 4th person to tell me that there is no body doing lighting around them in Texas, and Paul was #1.
Damn it! I've got at least 200 little nats running around as competitors, and even though not one of them is as significant as us they still get the smaller jobs! I like the smaller jobs! Home by lunch, in the pool with the kids. There are so many competitors in my market, it is dumbfounding. This is why I get so aggravated at some people who claim to demand a higher price for their offering. Bottom line: Competitors = lower prices When I move to an area that has fewer "ass-grabbers" then my cost for lighting is going to be what it is worth: $500 per fixture with no negotiation.

TXNSLighting
06-18-2007, 09:56 AM
$500 per fixture?! dam! noone around here is gettin that. the highest ive seen is $285 a fixture. and thats still well lights bullets and paths and all that. thats all thats around here. well except for me now. i will definately stop using the wells. i looked at your site, and your work looks awesome. that is definately where i want to be. So i am all ears. and its definately not that i cheaped out on wells, its just thats what ive seen used. I am definately in this for the long haul, ive invested alot in this already not to see it thru. i am a very dedicated person, and i want my work to be perfect!! I know of 1 dedicated ligting company in my town, the rest are electrician companys. I dive aroud at night lookin to target certain neighborhoods, and noone has the low volt lighting! its amazing, i guaratee in the last month i have driven by atleast 1000 upper class homes. Its either high voltage, builder lights, or nothing! ive seen 2 home cheapo systems. and the blue tree lights that shine down. So this place needs some lighting.

Chris J
06-18-2007, 10:34 PM
You know what, I'm moving to Texas! That is the 4th person to tell me that there is no body doing lighting around them in Texas, and Paul was #1.
Damn it! I've got at least 200 little nats running around as competitors, and even though not one of them is as significant as us they still get the smaller jobs! I like the smaller jobs! Home by lunch, in the pool with the kids. There are so many competitors in my market, it is dumbfounding. This is why I get so aggravated at some people who claim to demand a higher price for their offering. Bottom line: Competitors = lower prices When I move to an area that has fewer "ass-grabbers" then my cost for lighting is going to be what it is worth: $500 per fixture with no negotiation.

Well, maybe that price is a little exaggerated at the moment, but the way fuel and materials keep going up in price I may not be that far off.

TXNSLighting
06-18-2007, 11:22 PM
thats true, i could see it gettin up there eventually...

Mike M
06-19-2007, 09:11 AM
The most simple aspects of outdoor lighting is to conceal the light source

Chris, I thought the well lights were used for better shielding of glare, what do you think about the ones with the MR16 lamps? Never mind, I guess the idea of one light is the main problem. Stakes allow for movement, cross-lighting, etc. Also, I had put in a well light for a tree near my daughter's basketball goal, so the ball wouldn't keep hitting the stakes.

Also, regarding Kichler 15384 BBR's--are the components assembled as well as the Cast fixtures? I've used the AZT's and like them, but am thinking of going with Cast bronze for projects.

I'd like a simple, reliable, well-made line that I can buy in bulk-packs, etc., and market to harsh environments.

I was worried about the Kichler brass, simply based on how they think it's okay to give us those pierce point connectors, and I don't know if the fixtures are protected & sealed well for corrosive environments. I just figure there is probably more to it than having a housing made of brass?

I'm still learning.

Mike

NiteTymeIlluminations
06-19-2007, 09:21 AM
Does Cast stil have that floating socket? Does anyone have troubles with them, that's why I stopped carrying the BL616 from Hadco.

Pro-Scapes
06-19-2007, 10:18 AM
yes cast still has the floater... No real probs for us besides sometimes they are a pita to get the lamp out of.

Mike the Kichler BBR is a solid built light... Its the same light as the AZT but in a dark oiled ??? brass finish Really nice looking light... Fixed socket... Also on another note it does not have a convex lens like the cast lights do. One problem I see with the convex lens is there is a certain amount of light distortion or a V on walls. The Kichler and other flat lensed fixtures dont seem to have this with the ushio lamps we are using now.

The draw back is the flat lens doesnt shed water and dirt as well as the convex lens. I wish Cast would offer them in both. Perhaps they will come up with a new fixture soon with a fixed socket and flat lens to compete with the Kichlers

NiteTymeIlluminations
06-19-2007, 10:34 AM
the BL616 was one of the most popular fixtures in the market...then one day 5 or 6 years after that was THE light the wires pulled out of the socket, every freakin one in the market...hope CAST doesn't have that problem in a year or 2.

Chris J
06-19-2007, 08:24 PM
Kichler's brass is a very solid line and I'm very happy with it and it's value. In regard to the pierce point connectors (quic-disc) I assume they put these in there so that those with little to no experience can install their fixtures. I guess this makes good business sense, but I understand that these will be replaced with different connectors sometime in the near future (hear-say).

NightScenes
06-20-2007, 10:28 AM
I've got a feeling that the defecation is about to hit the oscillation.