The power race

[southside]

Seems to me that over the past few years,mowers particularly
ztr mowers are really moving ahead in leaps and bounds,horsepower wise. eg.26efi Kohler,29.5 efi Kawasaki.
Then you have the diesels. A Dixie Chopper with a 55hp turbo
Yanmar? Where do you guys see the limit to all of this?
Can you really have too much power? :-)

[LAWNGODFATHER]

Nope I would like to see a 84" ZTR with a 100hp on it.
A 7" deep deck with 4 blades

now were talkin' 'bout a mower

LGF:blob1:

[roscioli]

As long as they are actual ratings, I am happy. What gets me are the sears mowers that say "6.5 hp", haha, right. Or the wal-mart riders that say "17.5 hp" Hmm... my father has one of those, lets just say my 12.5 kawi on an exmark metro 36" can waste his rider in cutting quality in every type of grass.

[lawnboy82]

The more power you have coming from an eninge the more work you can do obviosly. You can turn the blades faster on a small deck, and can also turn the blades just as fast on a larger deck. You can probably go faster too, however that has many other factors to deal with other than just HP. As far as what roscioli said about false labeling on engines. You must understand that as engines put more and more hours on them they start to lose power if they are not maintained properly. Also, we spend more money on our lawn equipment to get a better quality of cut. If you want to go and purchase a Crapsman lawn machine, then you will be getting what you pay for. Also think about this too, when you have your 36" walk behind it only has to move itself, and power 2 blades with a 12 HP engine. Your father's machine, do we know how sharp the blades are, or the blade tip speed of that particular machine as opposed to your Xmark? Again, just some things to ponder.

[roscioli]

Lawnboy- THe exmark pulls me too with my jungle wheels, i can promise you that the 17.5 hp rating is bull. I have sharpened the blades many times on my fathers rider, and it bogs down to the point of not being able to move in high grass (1 foot plus), it has since it was NEW. I dont write BS on here like some folks, I write what I know, or I state that it is my opinion.

[wallzwallz]

Roscioli, I know what your saying on those homeowner mowers, but i gotta believe if it's a name brand motor the HP rating is accurate,I just think the cheaper design doesn't translate the HP to blades as well.

[crazygator]

Another thing to consider is the design of the mowing deck. Most if not all commercial mowers have a R & D team who engineer's the deck's to provide proper lift, and exit of clippings. Plus to work within the horsepower of the engine that they use. Do you think Crapsman does the same? I think not. Also consider this, if you look at a top of the line crapsman, your in the $ 3,000 - 4,000 range. Why not look for a good used Z, or get a new stand on, or a new walk behind with a sulke? The deck will be better, the horse power will get the job done on these machines and look just how long the machine will last if only used as a home owner unit. You cant compare crapsman to a commercial unit, or even to a cheaper commercial mower. It's not apple's to apple's.

[WREBELMACHINE]

southside

I was wondering how dixie chopper can call there big yanmar 50hp when it's stamped on the engine that it only produces 41.8hp?

[Eric ELM]

According to their website, they call it a 41 hp, when it should be a 41.8, so they are under, not over. ;)

What started as a 55 hp, then down to 50 hp, is now 41 hp if you look at the website.

Right now in the Chicago area, we have some lawns that are growing at Spring growth rates and I wish I had the 41 hp on my 60". I don't think you can have to much power in these conditions. :)

[cp]

IMHO you can not have too much power. I would like to have a power plant that operates at maximum with a chip that allows more power when the load increases such as the increased growth at this time of year.

With the new computerized engines this would be possible however not affordable to most.

[roscioli]

Michael Wall- That is very true, the belt/pulley systems in those mowers are designed by women i think. HAHA,, JUST KIDDING! Bad joke. They are designed by wal-mart's highly educated engineers, they went to WAL-MART UNIVERSITY!

[John DiMartino]

Dixie Chopper exaggerates Hp ratings of the XW2600 too.It isnt 26hp,Yanmar rates that engine at 23.6,right down to the 10th of a HP.The info is right on the valve cover,and cannot be altered due to EPA emissions regulations.Dixie calls it a 26hp.So if you dont look when you buy,you really think you got 26-pay for 26-get 23.6-Dixie left out the 3. between the 2 and 6 on purpose,because no one would buy one if it had only 23.6hp,they are too expensive to only get 23.6.

[LoneStarLawn]

The dixiechopper website states that the engine Yanmar 3TNE74 (on XWD2600) at 3600 RPM is 25.6 hp not 23.6 hp.

[John DiMartino]

The engine plate on the valve cover states it is 23.6,Ive checked 4 different units,99's to 2001's,all are 23.6.Yanmar builds the engine,and i tend to believe them over Dixie.The Japanese are very precise about hp ratings,they rate it down to the 1/10th of a hp.I wouldnt believe anything thats on the Dixie Chopper website,or there literature,it is all outdated,and old.The belt info is wrong,the owners manual is outdated and incorrect.The spec sheets dont match the brochure on top speeds and cutting heights.All i get is confused when i look at the spec sheets.

[LoneStarLawn]

I was under the impression that these were on only the 2001 models...

I did finally find Yanmar specs..
http://www.landseapower.com/yantne.htm#3TNE Engine Specifications


Your right 23.6 at 3600RPM...

I wonder why they do that...or maybe there is added hp with the air cleaners or extra compents.

[John DiMartino]

The do it to sell mowers,if you think its 26-your getting the most power Dixie has on a 60-but tell you a 23.5-or 24,well then you automatically think you can get more power for less money with the Kohler 25,although the 25 isnt as strong as the 23.6 Yanmar,most guys dont tknow the difference between gas HP and diesel hp.

[awm]

there are just way to many other things that affect amt of power to aplication,to go by a stamped hp rating.
i once had a kaw motor rated at 5 hp on a 36 wb.
if the belts were tight ,thing woulda cut bamboo

[Eric ELM]

I know my 23.6 hp Yanmar has a lot more power than my 22 Kohler. :D

So what's the deal on the EFI, should Dixie Chopper put 28.5 hp on the specs since it was posted that Exmark tested it out to be that horse power?

I know that Dixie Chopper designed a muffler to give the Honda 1 more HP than the 24 it is rated at. It looks just like the one that DC puts on the 23.6 hp Yanmar, so maybe that's where they are getting the extra hp. I do not know, nor do I care. I also have a 20 hp Yanmar that will handle a 60" deck just fine, so the 23.6 handles it a little bit better. I've also had 20 hp Kohlers on a 60" deck and it handled it OK.

From what Lynn Gorrell said he heard at Louisville, they are putting twin 23's on the 72" soon. Will that actually be 46 hp or will it be ONLY 45.7?

Is the Jet Engine on those Choppers actually 150 HP or is in ONLY 149. ;)

[yardboyltd]

I would like to see Honda's 1800cc motor off their motorcycles like the goldwing. That thing purrs, in fact I'd like to see a mower that rides like a goldwing. Adjustable air suspension, air compressor on board, hard case storage, stereo, cb...

[strickdad]

Originally posted by southside
Seems to me that over the past few years,mowers particularly
ztr mowers are really moving ahead in leaps and bounds,horsepower wise. eg.26efi Kohler,29.5 efi Kawasaki.
Then you have the diesels. bCan you really have too much power? :-) eric!! show him the picture of the limit to all this power

[Eric ELM]

Strickdad, do you mean this one? :)

http://www.elmlawnsite.com/dixie_1.jpg

[LAWNGODFATHER]

Wait you guys are going the wrong way. ERIC can you post what the torque is on those diesels? My Kohler spec sheet says the Kohler CV25 has 25hp and 54 ft.lbs. of torque. You want torque not HP what do you think gets you moving. Do you want 5,000hp w/200ft.lbs. of torque or 200hp w/500ft.lbs. of torque.
Any ways start posting both ratings for the engines and then we will see what is more powerfull.

LGF:blob1:

[crazygator]

LGF,
My thoughts exactly. I have a Hustler walk behind coming. It is set up with a 17hp Kaw with Maximum Torque 27.3 ft lbs @ 2400 rpm. More torque helps everything to keep moving and not bog down. Diesels are set up to provide a lot of torque, and therefore are used for semi trucks to provide great pulling force. Torque is the king in this Battle!

[strickdad]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Eric ELM
[B]Strickdad, do you mean this one? :)

[IMG]http:// thats the one eric!!!!

[David Haggerty]

Originally posted by LAWNGODFATHER
Nope I would like to see a 84" ZTR with a 100hp on it.
A 7" deep deck with 4 blades

now were talkin' 'bout a mower

LGF:blob1:

There's quite a few mowers in that catagory, maybe not 100 hp but close.
Toro Commercial, Jacobsen, Howard Price and Hustler all make big mowers. It's just a little hard finding enough work for 'em.

I've always aimed to get the largest diesel engine that that particular model of mower offered. Not so much for the power but for longevity. It works for me, I almost never have engine trouble.

It seems like some manufacturers are getting close to putting on more motor than the rest of the mower can handle. I'd be curious to how some of these machines would hold up.

Dave

[Richard Martin]

Dixie Chopper installed a 150 hp turbine engine just to prove how much power the Dixie frames can handle. It also just so happened to be the same mower that Tim Allen used on Home Improvement to whip Bob Vila in a mower race (I think Bob had a Crapsman, no contest there even without the turbine).

[Albemarle Lawn]

If you know horsepower and RPM, you can calculate torque. The Yanmar page gives horsepower at any given RPM, so Torque is just a mathematical calculation.

(Actually HP is a function of Torque at RPM, but the equation can be solved backwards for Torque)


See Randy's Ring and Pinion for a calculator:

http://www.ring-pinion.com/calc-horse.html

Ken

[Tony]

More Horsepower is what we all want,Right? More speed Right? The answer is not so simple, some mowers can cut more grass at a faster pace with less horsepower. A 25 Kolher engine on Brand A may perform different on Brand B. The deck style, the amount of distance from the blade to the top of the deck, the speed of the blades, all this has something to do with the useable power a mower has. All I want to say is that some brands of mowers outperform others with larger engines. I've seen a 18 Hp Kohler 52" Exmark mow grass up to my shoulders, yes I'm more than 2 feet tall. Look at the deck on the Toro website to see what their Super Flow System looks like. A combination of a good engine and a great deck = faster mowing.


http://www.toro.com/professional/lce/zmaster/z250/feature_deck.html

[weve]

I had a Dixie XF2500-60 (Kohler) and now have a Dixie XFD2600-60 (Yanmar). I calculated comparisons on mowing times for a full season on two of my accounts. Each account was about two acres and the growth rate was similar for each year. On one account, which has a large area of thin grass and weeds, the Yanmar outmowed the Kohler by 6% less time per mowing. On the other account, which had heavier growth, The Yanmar outmowed the Kohler by 13% less time per mowing. The Yanmar also uses 1/3 less fuel.

[LAWNGODFATHER]

Dave

A mid mount ZTR. I've used the others and not impressed!

LGF:blob1:

[WREBELMACHINE]

Hey guys I might have the answer to why d/c rates there diesel engines higher than what they really are. I was talking to the owner of bladerunner and he was telling me about his 42hp diesel engine that he is useing. So I asked him if it was true diesel hp. and he said yes. So I asked him about the yanmar that d/c uses and he told me that the rateing on the head of the engine is correct! He also said that the 41hp yanmar is rated at 41hp at 3000rpm. D/c claims 50hp by turning the engine rpm up to 3600. However according to the bladerunner owner the redline of that engine is 3000rpm and d/c does not turn them that high!

This info I beleve to be accurate however you might want to check it out for yourself because this info did come from a competitor of d/c!

I also opened up my yanmar owners manual and it does state 41.8hp at a maximum rpm of 3000!

[John DiMartino]

As you turn a mechanical injected diesel past its internal hi speed setting,the fuel drops off,and power goes down.Now if the governor was taken apart and stiffer springs put in,and steps were taken to reduce EGT's,then power would rise,but I know DC isnt puling the pumps apart,they just turn the stop screw out a couple of turns,this reduces power once the engine gets above the max rating.This is refrfered to a s Hi idle speed,and has little to do with its power.Diesels get more power by ading more fuel,a better muffler,or air cleaner will not make a measurable difference in power.Turning up the injection pump will,this is illegal,and Dixie cannot do this,so there power rating is bogus.Yanmar's rating is the real rating,to get more power out of it,requires altering the fuel,and the new rating would need to be emmisions certified,and checked before it could be sold.So if you believe DC,when tell us thats how they get more power,then you might believe Ive got some ocean fornt property in Arizona for sale.They are walking a fine line by turning up the engine speed,if it is above the speed it is certified to run at.My kohler 25 is only certifed up to 3750 RPM's,but Dixie's get to run them faster,I still wonder how.

[LAWNGODFATHER]

John

My handy dandy Kohler spec sheet says 3600 RPM's

LGF:blob1:

[John DiMartino]

My kohler ,manual says 3750,no load,as the max the engine should be run at.Dixie says 3850 or so,no load.I tend to trust the engine maker a little more in this case too,but every time warranty work was done on my Dixie,(5 or 6 times)I got it back with the governor set to 3900-4000 noload,I had to turn it down every time i got it back.After they did the head gaskets,it was set to 4200.

[LAWNGODFATHER]

Good reason for new head gasket huh.

The spec sheet I'm using is for the kohler command 17-25hp vertical crankshaft. Should be same for HOR. But under load you can run them at 3700 just back off throttle with no load. I would not run them that high though. asking for trouble.

LGF:blob1: