Glyfosate-Believe this?

[ArizPestWeed]

http://www.pesticide.org/glyphosate.pdf

Think any of this is true ?

[Rayholio]

I don't believe it.. I once heard a collage professor in a speach about pesticides claim that humans could drink glyphosate, and it would not have any ill effects... not at all the case with MOST pesticides...

But at any rate.. You should pretty much treat all pesticides like nuclear waste... Who wants to get cancer in 5 years because of something laboratory testing missed? ... .... ...

Don't see anyone raising their hands yet... so.. just be safe, no matter what you're applying.

[Grandview]

I do not believe any of that story. Roundup does not last long enough in the environment to pollute ground water. The list of harm it can do is way too long for any of it to be credible.

[lawnspecialties]

Look who wrote the article. They obviously have an agenda.

It's probably like the "saccharin causing cancer in rats study". Sure, but they gave the rats tremendous dosages of saccharin before the rats formed cancer cells. Way more than would normally be ingested. I'm sure if I took a Glyphosphate bath every night before bed, something bad might happen after a while.:confused:

[vegomatic40]

I noticed that one of the tests conducted on mice involved injecting glyphosate directly under the skin (subcutaneous). Generally when I use glyphosate, I inject it directly into a main artery, none of that sissy stuff for me. Any product when it is missused or abused can be toxic. If you drink enough water your body will go into shock and you can die but not many are willing to drink 6-8 gallons to do the job.

[rcreech]

This is bogus! Yes we need to respect the product but glyphosate is one the of the safest products we use on the market (especially when diluted). Look at the LD 50. I interned with Monsanto in 99 and we had a safety class and if you were to ingest Roundup all it would do is give you the runs. This article was written by tree huggers. If this unsafe they wouldn't be selling millions of gallons at Walmart and Lowes. Also roundup has not activity in the soil!

[garydale]

SEND THIS LOAD OF BS TO THE ORGANO NAXI SITE.

Maybe they will choke onit.

[Ric]

Look who wrote the article. They obviously have an agenda.
It's probably like the "saccharin causing cancer in rats study". Sure, but they gave the rats tremendous dosages of saccharin before the rats formed cancer cells. Way more than would normally be ingested. I'm sure if I took a Glyphosphate bath every night before bed, something bad might happen after a while.:confused:

lawnspecialties

First think I noticed was the Source of the information. We are read From "The Journal for Pesticide Reform" an Article written by "Northwest Coalition for Alternatives to Pesticides" Why not attack the # One selling Pesticide in the world.

I always try and consider the source on any information. In the case of Airhead I always use quite a bit of Caution. Got to love the Tree Huggers.

[rcreech]

Ric,

I love your comments to "Airhead". Keeps me laughing every time. You are like the Larry the Cable guy of Lawnsite. Lord I apolozize... Have a great one!

BTW, We have finally gotten some stuff from the sky today. It's been so long but I think they call it rain or something so we might be able to start applying again here in SW OH. I am pumped!

[Ric]

Ric,

I love your comments to "Airhead". Keeps me laughing every time. You are like the Larry the Cable guy of Lawnsite. Lord I apolozize... Have a great one!

BTW, We have finally gotten some stuff from the sky today. It's been so long but I think they call it rain or something so we might be able to start applying again here in SW OH. I am pumped!

rcreech

AirHead loves those comments also. He would be disappointed if I didn't Bust his Chops. It is his claim to fame and the attention his mother never gave him as a child growing up.

[Ric]

Ric,

I love your comments to "Airhead". Keeps me laughing every time. You are like the Larry the Cable guy of Lawnsite. Lord I apolozize... Have a great one!

BTW, We have finally gotten some stuff from the sky today. It's been so long but I think they call it rain or something so we might be able to start applying again here in SW OH. I am pumped!

Last edited by Michael J. Donovan : Today at 10:40 AM.

Oops looks like AirHead is Politically Incorrect along with everything else he is Incorrect about.

[smikes1031]

I'm neither a lawn service owner nor a pro pesticide applicator, so I ordinarily don't post here, and I apologize in advance if I'm overstepping my bounds in doing so. However, this post caught my attention. For objective info (from a collaboration of universities), hit this link, which for glyphosate is current through June '96:

http://extoxnet.orst.edu/pips/glyphosa.htm

There are probably similar objective sites that are even more up-to-date. While care should be taken with all pesticides (including PPE, REI, etc.), relatively speaking (and probably in comparison with the crap these organofascists are smoking), glyphosate is benign.

[Ric]

I'm neither a lawn service owner nor a pro pesticide applicator, so I ordinarily don't post here, and I apologize in advance if I'm overstepping my bounds in doing so. However, this post caught my attention. For objective info (from a collaboration of universities), hit this link, which for glyphosate is current through June '96:

http://extoxnet.orst.edu/pips/glyphosa.htm

There are probably similar objective sites that are even more up-to-date. While care should be taken with all pesticides (including PPE, REI, etc.), relatively speaking (and probably in comparison with the crap these organofascists are smoking), glyphosate is benign.

smikes

Thanks for the Link. Please note that most of the products Brand names List, indicated they were for Aquatic use. Pond Master Etc. When Sprayed in large quantity of water Glyphosate is chemically Changed by ADSORTION almost instantly to make it Benign and then microbial action completes the job. The same chemical reaction takes place as Glyphosate hits soil however a few seconds slower.

However What your Study doesn't show is the environmental impact of the Surfactants used in Non-Aquatic labeled Glyphosate. It is the Surfactant used in Product like Roundup that is damaging to Aquatic life. Frogs are particularly susceptible any chemical and have been found to mutate from the Surfactant in Roundup.

I am Far from being a Tree Hugger and just want to point out the Importance of reading the label, Understanding It and following the Label. Yes Glyphosate is the safest Pesticide on the market today. BTW LD 50 of table salt is lower than Glyphosate and therefore more dangerous.


PS. Please post all you want or can. You are breath of fresh air compared to AirHead's Dripple.

[smikes1031]

Ric -

As I reread much of what was linked in this post, I was kicking myself for not mentioning the surfactants issue - they can certainly be worse (from an acute toxicity standpoint, anyway) than the ai. Hence the reason for always paying attention to ppe, etc. I really don't know much about the surfactants in Roundup, admittedly.

The only descriptors I have seen for surfactants are occasionally "contains petroleum distillate" or "water-based," with nothing further. I realize the law doesn't require disclosure of inert ingredients. Why is that - trade secret (I can see the surfactants affecting performance of a product) or simply successful lobbying to avoid disclosure of all ingredients? Another reason?

Still, I think much of what anti-pesticide organizations disseminate amounts to cherry-picking those studies/outcomes/accidents that serve their purposes (some of it is outright speculation). This methodology led to the outright banning of DDT, even though the underlying reason (thinning of eggshells) was shown to either not result from DDT or to not have been a factor worth considering (as bald eagle populations rose during DDT use), leading to hundreds of thousands (or more) additional malaria deaths. That's what prompted my response.

In any event, thanks for the response - I began lurking at this site over a year ago when I nearly lost my first lawn (3 summers into living at the house) to grubs and moles, joined the site this spring to enable searches, and continue to come around now and then because (after last year) the lawn has become a bit of an obsession for me.

[ArizPestWeed]

What is a "surfactant" ????

[Ric]

What is a "surfactant" ????

AirHead

The way word is pronounced in your Hood, It could be the Nick name of the major player.

[Ric]

Ric -

As I reread much of what was linked in this post, I was kicking myself for not mentioning the surfactants issue - they can certainly be worse (from an acute toxicity standpoint, anyway) than the ai. Hence the reason for always paying attention to ppe, etc. I really don't know much about the surfactants in Roundup, admittedly.

The only descriptors I have seen for surfactants are occasionally "contains petroleum distillate" or "water-based," with nothing further. I realize the law doesn't require disclosure of inert ingredients. Why is that - trade secret (I can see the surfactants affecting performance of a product) or simply successful lobbying to avoid disclosure of all ingredients? Another reason?

Still, I think much of what anti-pesticide organizations disseminate amounts to cherry-picking those studies/outcomes/accidents that serve their purposes (some of it is outright speculation). This methodology led to the outright banning of DDT, even though the underlying reason (thinning of eggshells) was shown to either not result from DDT or to not have been a factor worth considering (as bald eagle populations rose during DDT use), leading to hundreds of thousands (or more) additional malaria deaths. That's what prompted my response.

In any event, thanks for the response - I began lurking at this site over a year ago when I nearly lost my first lawn (3 summers into living at the house) to grubs and moles, joined the site this spring to enable searches, and continue to come around now and then because (after last year) the lawn has become a bit of an obsession for me.


Smikes

DDT and Chlordane both are still being used all over the 3rd world because of the cost and Economic value of them. Guess where these Chemicals are being manufactured? There really isn't a bad Pesticide, Just bad pesticide applications and that is where the major problem lies. Chemical companies can't sell enough product to cover expenses unless they can sell to those with out education or concern of the environment. Doesn't matter if it is the Active Ingredient or Airhead's pimp Sir Facting that does the damage. The Bottom line is the lack of education and Dime store License holder who don't have the foggiest Idea of what they are applying. Take an honest poll here of this forum member of how many lawn boys spray Roundup in drainage areas. Read the label, not only is Roundup not labeled for lakes but also drainage areas.

BTW I made a post about the inventor of Glyphosate (John Franz) being inducted into the Inventors Hall of Fame. A few Lawn boys took exception to the post and it ended up deleted. If they had that much disrespect for that post, How much respect do they have for the label??? Hey if a little bit is good then a whole lot must be better so lets just pour straight out of the Jug a glug or two.

[smikes1031]

Good point, Ric. Reminds me of another website where I read a several-years-old post where a guy seriously recommended dumping a qt of straight diazinon concentrate (back when you could still buy it) down a hole to kill a colony of ground bees (at least two other posts recommended gasoline, including one lighting it on fire). Guess that might be why we lost one of the most reliable products (blaming the chemical company for not retesting aside). I used to wonder how stores sold so much homeowner stuff.

While I haven't looked it up in a while, it seems chlordane was significantly more dangerous than a lot of insecticides used around homes. However, I just last night read a National Geographic article terming DDT "non-toxic to humans." Assuming NG is reliable (it didn't cite a source), and combined with other data suggesting DDT hasn't caused the environmental damage attributed to it, it seems apparent to me that our continued ban (at least for mosquito programs) is misplaced.

Interesting on the glyphosate inventor.

[Ric]

Smikes

Glyphosate is the most financially successful pesticide ever to be invented and was a mistake because Franz was trying to develop a growth Regulator that was found to be a great Herbicide that works by Inhibiting of EPSP synthase and Starves the plant to death. Today Glyphosate is used in Agriculture More as an over the top Selective Herbicide and Growth Regulator. Spot Weed control in residential area is a very small part of the market of Glyphosate.

http://www.monsanto.com/monsanto/layout/featured/john_franz.asp

PS. Google "Chemical Mowing"

BTW I am going to start to do Brain Surgery this year and was wondering if someone could tell me what kind is Skull Saw to use.

[rcreech]

Ric,

I also farm and Roundup is the highest used pesticide on the farm. I use about 120 gallon per year of 41% glyphosate. I remember before Roundup went of patent we were paying $50-60/gallon, and now we pay $10-12/gallon. Over 85% of the beans planted in the US are now Roundup Ready and I bet corn will be the same within the next five years. Not trying to correct you, but Roundup is a Non Selective herbicide and it isn't a growth regulator.

[ampeg76]

Ric,

I also farm and Roundup is the highest used pesticide on the farm. I use about 120 gallon per year of 41% glyphosate. I remember before Roundup went of patent we were paying $50-60/gallon, and now we pay $10-12/gallon. Over 85% of the beans planted in the US are now Roundup Ready and I bet corn will be the same within the next five years. Not trying to correct you, but Roundup is a Non Selective herbicide and it isn't a growth regulator.


i'm sure ric knows that, i think he was pointing out the fact that a man set out to create a growth regulator and ended up with a great non-selective herbicide:)

[rcreech]

Ampeg,

I am sure you are correct as Ric seems to be very educated and makes a lot of sense in his threads.
I was just confused by the sentence that stated "Today Glyphosate is used in Agriculture More as an over the top Selective Herbicide and Growth Regulator"

[Ric]

Ampeg,

I am sure you are correct as Ric seems to be very educated and makes a lot of sense in his threads.
I was just confused by the sentence that stated "Today Glyphosate is used in Agriculture More as an over the top Selective Herbicide and Growth Regulator"

rcreech

Non Select kills everything and does not Select which plants it kills

Select Kills only Selected plants and not other plants.

Do you Spray Roundup on the Roundup Ready Soybeans as well as the Weeds??? Do you Spray 2,4-D on turf grass as well as Weeds?? Why would 2,4-D be a select and not Roundup?? Both Kill certain plants and not others.

Yes Roundup is a select Herbicide and can even be applied over the top of many ornamental plants as well.


Growth Regulator either slows growth or redirects it.

If you apply Primo it cause the Turf grass to not grow as tall and it doesn't need cut as often. In a way you are Chemically Mowing grass with Primo. Now look at a Roundup label on Monsanto's Website. Look at section 12.3 Entitled CHEMICAL MOWING.

Certain Crops like Fruit Trees are grown between Turf strips to hold the soil. Mowing these are expensive, therefore Chemical mowing is done as a cost effect means. Just east of me is the largest Citrus Growing county in Florida. They use a two boom system on citrus trees. Directly under the Tree they want bare ground for better Oxygen exchange with the roots. The 1st Boom sprays higher AI glyphosate 2nd boom sprays between the trees with a lower or Growth regulator rate.

[rcreech]

Ric,

I'm not trying to be a prick about this... all I am saying is you are using terms that are not accurate.

Glyphosate is a non-selective herbicide. Google it, or look it up anywhere (see definition below)! You are correct that 2-4,D is a selective herbicide (that is it only kills broadleaves and not grasses).
You are correct that glyphosate will not kill RR beans and that is because they have been genetically modified, but it kills everything else (both grasses and broadleaves) which makes it a non-selective herbicide.

DEFINITIONS
Post emergent herbicides can be selective or non-selective. Products such as Roundup can be considered total vegetation, non selective and post emergent.
A non-selective herbicide tries to kill most plants while a selective herbicide is designed to kill specific types of plants, usually grasses or broad leaf weeds.

You also said that glyphosate is a "Growth Regulator". That is incorrect.

Growth Regulator is a term used when describing the mode of action of how the plant dies. 2-4,D is an example of a growth regulator. Glyphosate is an Amino Acid Synthesis Inhibitor.

Look it all up as all this information is available on any university website.

[Ric]

Ric,

I'm not trying to be a prick about this... all I am saying is you are using terms that are not accurate.

Glyphosate is a non-selective herbicide. Google it, or look it up anywhere (see definition below)! You are correct that 2-4,D is a selective herbicide (that is it only kills broadleaves and not grasses).
You are correct that glyphosate will not kill RR beans and that is because they have been genetically modified, but it kills everything else (both grasses and broadleaves) which makes it a non-selective herbicide.

DEFINITIONS
Post emergent herbicides can be selective or non-selective. Products such as Roundup can be considered total vegetation, non selective and post emergent.
A non-selective herbicide tries to kill most plants while a selective herbicide is designed to kill specific types of plants, usually grasses or broad leaf weeds.

You also said that glyphosate is a "Growth Regulator". That is incorrect.

Growth Regulator is a term used when describing the mode of action of how the plant dies. 2-4,D is an example of a growth regulator. Glyphosate is an Amino Acid Synthesis Inhibitor.

Look it all up as all this information is available on any university website.

Creech

I am trying to make a point with a little shock value about Glyphosate. Yes everyone calls Glyphosate a Non select. However in reality it is a Select. However it is select at lower AI. in most cases just like 2,4-D. On actively growing Bermuda or Bahia you can spray Glyphosate at 0.5 oz per thousand and kill sand spurs and other broad leafs and not the Bermuda or Bahia. When you spray Roundup Ready Soybeans at a certain rate Glyphosate is also a select in the fact it selectively kills weeds and not Soybeans. BTW If Monsanto labels Glyphosate as a non select it helps keep their Liability down.

You say Amino Acid Synthesis Inhibitor and I said Nitrogen Inhibitor as a more simple term, but what are Amino Acid other than molecules of Nitrogen. If you apply a Nitrogen inhibitor at a certain rate you only cause the plant to starve and grow slower. Two are two types of Growth regulator, One the changes growth direction and one that slows growth. Glyphosate in fact slows growth at certain rates and therefore is a growth regulator. Go back to my original Post about John Franz that was deleted. Dr Franz was working on a Growth Regulator and found that Growth Regulator to be an excellent Herbicide by mistake. The most successful pesticide ever was in fact a mistake. But that Mistake is not a unique thing because it happens very often in research.

Bottom Line is Roundup can be used for many different application other than killing weeds in your flower beds.

[rcreech]

I believe as professionals we should use terms accurately. If we alter these terms or use them in different ways then they are intended it is only confusing to all. I learn a lot from this site, and I am sure everyone else does. We don't want to put info on this site that is inaccurate. Sorry for the long post but I think you will find it worth reading.

I totally disagree with that last few posts regarding glyphosate as a selective herbicide and that it is a growth regulator. If there is info out there that backs up what you say then show me where it is andI will get off you back.

Below are terms STRAIGHT FROM THE BOOK, and this is why I am arguing this mute point. I just want to stress the importance of using terms correctly if we are going to use them.

Glyphosate is a non-selective herbicide no matter what rate or if you are using over RR beans. The only reason that RR beans survive is because they have been genetically modified to produce a EPSPS enzyme that is not recognized by the glyphosate molecule which keeps the RR plant from metabolizing it.

That doesn't make glyphosate a selective herbicide. Look at the label and it will say Glyphosate is a non-selective herbicide in black and white.

A product that kills both broadleaves and grasses (Glyphosate) is considered a non-selective herbicide.

A product that kills only broadleaves or grass is selective (Fusilade, 2-4,D etc.)

As far as a growth regulator...again if you look at the TERM, glyposate is not a growth regulator. It may ****** growth in some of the cases as you mention, but it isn't a growth regulator.

These terms are from the "Herbicide Mode of Action and Injury Symptoms" that is put out by the North Central Regional Extension Publications 377.


GROWTH REGULATOR
"The growth regulators include the following herbicide families:phenoxy acetic acids, benzoix acids and the pyridines. Growth regulator herbicides can act at multiple sites in a plant to disrupt hormone balance and protein synthesis and thereby cause a variety of plant growth abnormalities. Growth regulator herbicides SELECTIVELY kill broadleaf weeds; however they are capable of injuring grass crops."


AMINO ACID SYNTHESIS INHIBITOR
"The amino acid synthesis inhibitors include the following herbicide families: sulfonylureas, imidazolinoes, sulfonaminde and amino acid derivatives" (which is glyphosate BTW. "Amino acid synthesis inhibitors act on a specific enzyme to prevent the production of specific amino acids. The amino acid derivative herbicides inhibit the production of three essential aromatic amino acids by inhibiting another key plant enzyme. In general, injury symtoms are slow to develop and include stunting or slowing of plant growth and a slow plant death."

[Ric]

Creech

I am trying to make a point with a little shock value about Glyphosate.......................

Bottom Line is Roundup can be used for many different application other than killing weeds in your flower beds.

Creech

Ok I bad, you win.

[rcreech]

Ric,

There are no wins or loses on here. We just all learn together and have fun at what we do.

My feeling are when is comes to pesticides I think it is important to be very technical. Understanding pesticides and how they work is just as important as applying them.

I enjoy reading yours, and several other peoples comments on here. I am not trying to piss you off or come across as a know it all, but just trying to state the facts.

[ArizPestWeed]

Geez Ric , why did you give in soo easy ?

You know it's a select 'cide , is it just not worth the effort
with this guy ??



Your Buddy:)

[rcreech]

Ariz,

You can always argue opinions, but you can't argue facts!

[Ric]

Geez Ric , why did you give in soo easy ?

You know it's a select 'cide , is it just not worth the effort
with this guy ??



Your Buddy:)


AirHead

Unlike you, Creech is a worthy opponent. However I would be arguing with Monsanto's Attorneys who look at things from a liability point and not actual facts. They have decided to list Glyphosate as a non select for those Liability reasons, and the Label is the law. Creech has the documentation of those attorney's who are CYA for Monsanto, so I bow to him in this case. We all know or should know Glyphosate at high A.I. can kill certain trees. At the same rates we also know it can stunt but not kill Bermuda grass. Also from field experience we know there are certain ornamental in planter beds than will die if you even look at them with Roundup in your hand. While other plants we can spray over top of and not kill. To name plants I have found not to effected by Glyphosate would be a long list and most people might not know the plants from my area. But I believe Evergreen Giant Liriope is one everyone knows. However Variegated Liriope is controlled by Glyphosate.

The Label on Roundup has changed over the years. Section 12.3 Chemical Mowing was never on the original label for one example. As the Pattin is over for Glyphosate I believe you will see more changes to the label supporting My above statements. BTW Sometimes you must think outside the box and use some common sense.

PS Plus to argue with Creech would mean I would have had to research a bunch of stuff. I only post here off the top of my head and do very little if any searching for my posts.

[ArizPestWeed]

Ariz,

You can always argue opinions, but you can't argue facts!


Well , yes you can argue "facts" , you are wrong on that .
But , that is neither her nor there

[rcreech]

Ariz,

If you want to waste peoples time and argue facts go ahead. I only state that facts and leave it at that.

PS. Ric I now see why you call him Airhead.

I actually don't spend much time researching and looking up info. I worked in the ag chem market for about 8 years and have so much info at the tips of my fingers. Sad isn't it? My wife calls it my lawn porn! She says most people look at Playboy and all I do is read about lawn and farm stuff. Oh well!

[Rayholio]

don't you mean "airhead" ??

LOL

[Ric]

Ariz,

If you want to waste peoples time and argue facts go ahead. I only state that facts and leave it at that.

PS. Ric I now see why you call him Airhead.

I actually don't spend much time researching and looking up info. I worked in the ag chem market for about 8 years and have so much info at the tips of my fingers. Sad isn't it? My wife calls it my lawn porn! She says most people look at Playboy and all I do is read about lawn and farm stuff. Oh well!

Creech

Just Because I call him AirHead doesn't mean you can, just everyone else can. :hammerhead: I sometimes think Airhead makes some half way descend posts, Almost like his QI was at least 75. Most of the time he just posts a lot of Dripple.

Facts are not always Facts and I believe AirHead in his own Foolish way was trying to say that. At one time it was a known fact the Earth was FLAT and Glyphosate was a Non Select. Hm-mm looking out my window today in the rain I see it might be time to mow my lawn again in the next week or so. Of Course That Glyphosate and Iron I sprayed on it had nothing to do with the growth regulation and weed control of the nice weed free green colored lawn.

Tell your wife you are not alone as a pervert of LAWN PORN. I seem to have the same addiction. :dizzy: If you were selling Ag Chemicals I am sure you had to do a lot of studying at one time.

[rcreech]

Ric,

I didn't call him "Airhead"...if you read closely (like you don't in textbooks..ha ha) you will see I say "I see why you call him airhead". But, I will remember in the future not to call him that because it does sound better when you say it anyway!

Technically it must not have been a known fact or the earth would be flat. That means that it was a myth, an opinion etc. kinda like you think that Glyphosate is a growth regulator and selective herbicide. See known facts are what have been proven. Glad you paid attention to the terms that I put on here from KNOWN UNIVERSITIES.

If you want to create you own terms and go againt all University terms and call glyphoste a selective and growth regulator, have at it. My question to you is this though...If Glyphosate isn't a non-selective herbicide then what is? And you keep mentioning that Monsanto is doing it for liability purposes .Then why doesn't every other chemical Co doing this to reduce their liability? I guess since you are such good friends with the attorneys you just know..huh?

I am starting to like having these conversations with you. I feel like I am talking to my wife or something and you actually make me think. Your a good sport. Glad to see you have the same sickness. Yes, I got a BS degree in agronomy and turf science, while I interned with Dupont for one summer and Monsanto the next summer. Then worked in ag chem sales for six years. I have a great passion for working and understanding the chemistry of chemicals. Have a good one!

[Ric]

Ric,

I didn't call him "Airhead"...if you read closely (like you don't in textbooks..ha ha) you will see I say "I see why you call him airhead". But, I will remember in the future not to call him that because it does sound better when you say it anyway!

Technically it must not have been a known fact or the earth would be flat. That means that it was a myth, an opinion etc. kinda like you think that Glyphosate is a growth regulator and selective herbicide. See known facts are what have been proven. Glad you paid attention to the terms that I put on here from KNOWN UNIVERSITIES.

If you want to create you own terms and go againt all University terms and call glyphoste a selective and growth regulator, have at it. My question to you is this though...If Glyphosate isn't a non-selective herbicide then what is? And you keep mentioning that Monsanto is doing it for liability purposes .Then why doesn't every other chemical Co doing this to reduce their liability? I guess since you are such good friends with the attorneys you just know..huh?

I am starting to like having these conversations with you. I feel like I am talking to my wife or something and you actually make me think. Your a good sport. Glad to see you have the same sickness. Yes, I got a BS degree in agronomy and turf science, while I interned with Dupont for one summer and Monsanto the next summer. Then worked in ag chem sales for six years. I have a great passion for working and understanding the chemistry of chemicals. Have a good one!



Dick Threw the Ball. Jane watched Dick throw the Ball. Ric Never said you call him AirHead. Spot chased the Ball. Ric warned you not to call him AirHead. Oops Spot lost the Ball.

Creech

You gave up Chem sales to cut Grass???? I know for a fact my Main Chem salesman is making a good 6 figures and a nice Benefit package.

If I remind you of your wife, Would you like to get Married? I am single and my Children are grown and gone. No Baggage on my part except a girl friend.

[rcreech]

So you do read books! That must have been where you stopped!

Ag Chem sales tops out at about 35K. That sucks!

I don't do any mowing. I only provide lawn health services (fert, chem, aeration, seeding etc.)

I quit because my lawn health business was growing at a pace where I had to make a decision, so I came home and also farm 300 acres with my dad.

Working for yourself is priceless!!!!!!!

I will keep that in mind. Since you make the big bucks can I be a stay at home mom? I will have a hot dinner waiting on you every night!

[ArizPestWeed]

Well , rcreech , if that is your real name , facts can be easily argued , just ask my girl friend .

:)





Ariz,

If you want to waste peoples time and argue facts go ahead. I only state that facts and leave it at that.

PS. Ric I now see why you call him Airhead.

I actually don't spend much time researching and looking up info. I worked in the ag chem market for about 8 years and have so much info at the tips of my fingers. Sad isn't it? My wife calls it my lawn porn! She says most people look at Playboy and all I do is read about lawn and farm stuff. Oh well!

[rcreech]

I hear ya!

Never knew what selective hearing was til I got married! Or was that non-selective hearing.

Can't remember....lets ask Rick, he will know!