Grubs...SE Penna. Master plan???

[TLS]

Saw Japanese beetles today on a few properties while mowing.

I want to get my customers that have had grub history on a "Master Plan". I realize that most treatments are for next season. So I have a few questions for those in the Northeast, or those with knowledge about timing for this pest. As I've heard that timing is of the essence with this treatment.

Is there anything suggested to stop damage RIGHT NOW?

Is there a "best time" for Mach 2? And how do you feel about this product?

Is there a "best time" for Merit? And how do you feel about this product?

Is there a "best time" for Allectus? And how do you feel about this product?

Any other products to look into?

Price varies a lot from what I'm seeing. I'll be treating with a granular product. Weed/Feed was just applied first week of June.


The big problem is watering. We are very dry here. Some of the past rains our area totally missed. (I'm between Norristown and Pottstown and both of those areas got hit with storms several times that we got nothing but dark clouds and wind.)

So is there a time frame for watering that would make one product better than another?


Thanks guys.

[heritage]

Hi TLS,

Most treatments are not for next season...They are for this season.....It's not too late.


Remember these pests can fly(and will every year from neigbors), so the applications you make are to protect Turfgrass Treated. The Adults you see now will do NO DAMAGE to the lawn as an Adult Beetle.......They are feeding on there Favorite Ornamental Tree and or Shrub.

After the Adults feed for a couple weeks, they will begin mating. Late July in SUNNY LOCATIONS, the Jap. Beetles will lay their eggs. The Larve (grub) that hatch are the damaging pests. You will begin to see damage late August. The beauty of Mach II is you can apply it for control when these grubs are still very small. By Sept You would need Dylox followed by Irrigation to control Grubs.

Is there anything to stop damage now? Yes. In our area all mentioned will do the trick.

Use Allectus if you want to have a Chinch bug or Sod Webworm problem too.

Use Mach II if you have a Sod Webworm problem too. (mach 2 no control for CB)

Merit if no issues with surface feeders. Just Grub Protection.


Merit and Allectus use the same active ingrediant for grub control. The Mach II uses a different AI.

Use Granular forms of any of these products for best control.

They must be watered in to become active, Merit within the plant, and Mach II in the Soil.

Merit should go down (for our area) between June 15th and July 4th IMO.

The Mach II, July 1st - July 21st.

(make sure you apply the mach 2 @ 2 Pounds of Active Ingreadent Per Acre)

Do your weed and feed in Early October (best timing choice for repeat clients) or April 15 - May 15th, for a New Weedy Property, or with too many weeds for a "Spot Treatment" with a hand can or backpack sprayer.

For the water issue, I use the stragety that If I think we will have very dry period (precipation forcast map) In July, I will go with the Merit for that season.

Merit has a 120 day half life in the soil/plant, and the Mach II 100 days Aproxx.

So if you think you have to go early....Go Merit. You could put it down June 1st and still have good control for the season.

Look up and learn the "Life Cycle" of the pest you want to control......This in itself speeds along the learning process of getting the results, you are looking for :)

Pete D.

[RigglePLC]

I don't care for Mach II--some people had problems. I don't care for Allectus--it is just Merit plus a surface insecticide.
I use Merit. I am putting it down now and plan to finish by the end of July. Best time is probably July.

Also consider new "Arena" . http://www.arystalifescience.com/default.asp?V_DOC_ID=1444 Also labeled for cinchbugs.

Also consider "Meridian"
http://www.syngentaprofessionalproducts.com/to/prod/meridian25wg/

Meridian is less demanding as to the need for watering-in. It also has curative properties up the late second instar.

[heritage]

I Love Mach II !

Never a failure @ the 2 LB AI Rate.

Great Product!

Pete D.

[rcreech]

I was told by my Lesco rep that Mach 2 could sit longer without being watered in and that Merit had to be watered in right away. That is why I have chosen Mach 2. Sounds more forgiving. Have you heard this before.

[mdlwn1]

I cringe every time I hear people blanketing land with insecticides.....especially Merit! There are already resistant "superbugs" being created as a result of constant use. Additionally, bifenthrin is it?, causes the bugs that you don't kill to reproduce MUCH faster(excluding grubs) Grubs are part of a healthy ecosystem...sort of. You can always find 1 per square foot in any lawn or bed you dig into. It doesnt mean that there are more comming or that next year will be twice as bad. Its very rare in my area to see more than a 2-4% of total turf problem...in a bad year. When you have 30 per square foot, it's an issue. Water it very well, hit it with dylox or equivelent(under the thatch), throw a handfull of seed. This is the way most people in the industry do it. Hmmm...maybe I should go plant some Bamboo........

[TLS]

Thanks Pete and others. Very informative.

I guess you can say I was "somewhat" aware of the lifecycle, etc. Pete, that was an excellent summary. Thank you. You should write the core manuals for DOA here in PA!!!

I guess I'm just looking for personal experience from those in my area in reference to product and timing. From what I hear, I have about a week to pull the trigger w/Merit.

I won't be treating ALL lawns. Just those with previous problems. Is is safe to treat just sunny areas, and not the shady areas? These products are very expensive....not all will go for it I'm afraid.

[NattyLawn]

I start my Merit apps right after the 4th of July. I don't treat all lawns, but people with past or yearly issues do get the treatments if they so choose.

In my short stint at Scott's, anytime a rain day came up we were out with Mach II. Can't beat those March grub control treatments. :)

[heritage]

I was told by my Lesco rep that Mach 2 could sit longer without being watered in and that Merit had to be watered in right away. That is why I have chosen Mach 2. Sounds more forgiving. Have you heard this before.

Yes, Mach II can go longer without H20....as long as it's the Granular Formulation.

If I were to use Merit WSP or the Mach 2 in a Liquid app......I would be sure no mowing, AND rain or Irrigation within 48 Hrs of app. Not very practical for most of the big guys.

Another fit for the Liquid apps of these products are on those drizzle days, and it's too wet for the Gran. apps. Of course you would need the spray tanks.

I am not overbooked, so I use the Gran. products, always in the correct weather conditions.

Pete D.

[philk17088]

I started grub preventer this past week. I use touchstone.5g its generic Merit and is made and backed by Bayer. Why use namebrands, it doesn't help your bottom line

[heritage]

Thanks Pete and others. Very informative.

I guess you can say I was "somewhat" aware of the lifecycle, etc. Pete, that was an excellent summary. Thank you. You should write the core manuals for DOA here in PA!!!

I guess I'm just looking for personal experience from those in my area in reference to product and timing. From what I hear, I have about a week to pull the trigger w/Merit.

I won't be treating ALL lawns. Just those with previous problems. Is is safe to treat just sunny areas, and not the shady areas? These products are very expensive....not all will go for it I'm afraid.

Thanks TLS,

DOA in PA has lots of very good info in those study booklets you recieve for your for your pest exam. They are also great referance manuals.

Believe me, the folks writing Theory in those manuals, are PHD's and the like.......These people are very very bright. I am no match for their brainpower and university networking.

These folks write the Theory, based on studies in the Lab as well as the Field. I apply their results to my programs.....I add my Practical exp. It's a good combo.

If you are making an app. for Grub Prevention only, do not apply in shade areas....Beetles won't lay their eggs there, so no need.

I rotate Merit and Mach II from season to season. This year is Mach 2 year. Sod Webworms are always bad here as there are many farms all around....The adults fly from the grassy fields, and lay their eggs on our beautiful thick lawns. When I make the apps of Mach 2, on mixed lawns with Full sun in the front lawn area, and shade in the back, I will apply the Grub rate in the Sunny area and then adjust down to the Sod Webworm rate for the Shady area.....Shady turf also needs less Fert. so the color of turf is about the same.

Yes these products are Expensive. If a client wants to have a damage free lawn in the fall , and not wait for the new seed to fill in those damaged areas, they will pay......The very same way they pay for things like health insurance. Make it their choice at first.....

Either way you will/should make a good profit.

If they opt out on the grub control, and then take a bad hit from grubs, this is the perfect time to discuss the cost of reseeding/renovating those areas AND offering Grub control for next season. They almost always go for it.

Educate your clients, keep the smart ones/good payers and leave the rest for the low ballers and large companies that don't sell quality.

Happy Grub Control!

Pete D.

[TLS]

Good info everyone.

Thanks.

Pete,....Have you actually read the PA manuals???!!! While they do contain good amounts of info....they're far from the first place I look for info.

[TLS]

Just checking prices online between Merit and Mach II.

Merit is more than double the price of Mach II!

Who and why are people using Merit then? Is it twice as effective?


I also just checked my price booklet from Shemin's Nursery....Must be a typo???

It's just the opposite there.....Merit is cheaper than Mach II. Whats the deal?

Planning on purchasing and applying tomorrow.... Rain expected many times this week.

[heritage]

Just checking prices online between Merit and Mach II.

Merit is more than double the price of Mach II!

Who and why are people using Merit then? Is it twice as effective?


I also just checked my price booklet from Shemin's Nursery....Must be a typo???

It's just the opposite there.....Merit is cheaper than Mach II. Whats the deal?

Planning on purchasing and applying tomorrow.... Rain expected many times this week.


The deal is you need to speak with vendors in person. Some may want to push one product insted if another.

Ask them why the price seems flip floped. Also make sure you understand how to calculate % of Active Ingrediant in Each Bag, as well as the Amount needed per Acre, for GRUB CONTROL. For me the Mach II is about 20% less expensive Vs. Merit using Granular, on fert @ the Grub Rate.

Speak to Vendors in person and you should do better on price AS LONG as you bring something to their table too, ie. buy their products ;)

Pete D.

[TLS]

This morning I went out to LESCO and bought 250K sq/ft worth of 14-0-14 Mach II 30% Slow release. I figure it will feed it w/o danger with it being dry. The full effects of my early June application with MESA hasn't even popped yet.

I asked the LESCO guy who buys the Merit when it's more than double the cost? He shrugged and said some guys just like it and it's longer residual.

[TLS]

Oh yeah...It's all down too. Showers expected the next few days.

[heritage]

This morning I went out to LESCO and bought 250K sq/ft worth of 14-0-14 Mach II 30% Slow release. I figure it will feed it w/o danger with it being dry. The full effects of my early June application with MESA hasn't even popped yet.

I asked the LESCO guy who buys the Merit when it's more than double the cost? He shrugged and said some guys just like it and it's longer residual.

Exactly what I used this round. Its a clean product.

The Lesco anwser was "a quick anwser" . Read both of the labels yourself, and make yor choice based on weather and surface pests too.

You will like Mach II if you have webworm issues. An Early May app. of the Merit is great if you have Billbugs, and still want to control the Grubs in Late Aug/Early Sept.

Pete D.

[DUSTYCEDAR]

sometimes it doesn't matter what u use u will have damage due to weather and pest presser so keep that in mind

[lawn king]

I don't care for Mach II--some people had problems. I don't care for Allectus--it is just Merit plus a surface insecticide.
I use Merit. I am putting it down now and plan to finish by the end of July. Best time is probably July.

Also consider new "Arena" . http://www.arystalifescience.com/default.asp?V_DOC_ID=1444 Also labeled for cinchbugs.

Also consider "Meridian"
http://www.syngentaprofessionalproducts.com/to/prod/meridian25wg/

Meridian is less demanding as to the need for watering-in. It also has curative properties up the late second instar.I dont care for allectus,i use merit. This statement is a contradiction upon itself. allectus is merit?