No Water Flow Thru Zone Valve

[WalkGood]

Irritrol gray 2400 jartop zone valve.

Zone *used* to work. Voltage is being sent by controller, solenoid energizes. No water flow. Even if bleeder is opened, or manual on/off collar is opened, or all three at once. No water flow shows on water meter, and booster pump never comes on (pump comes on with pressure drop). Pressure steady.

Recent extensive landscape work done: masonry walkways, flower beds, lots of digging done. Poly lines reported broken but repaired.

I'm thinking maybe the landscaper repairs either capped off the line or they took the two ends of the tee'd line and connected them back again to itself.

If the poly line was crushed, wouldn't there be SOME flow?

I don't think it is the zone valve. Whenever I've seen a zone valve fail, it will not CLOSE. Never seen one not OPEN, even manually.

No one wants to dig up area that was worked on. Probably will pull a new feed from the back manifold to re-feed affected area from it's other end. Might find the problem that way I'll bet.

Any other ideas/suggestions?

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

I would cut pipe in front of valve. Activate and see if water starts to flow. If it does the line was capped before the first head somehow.

[koster_irrigation]

next step, dont cut any lines like he said thats just more work^^

just take the valve apart and turn the water on & see if any water comes out.

no water? line has been capped, probably not crushed b/c youd see a leak prob
So now start digging!!

If you have water, replace all internal components, diaphram, spring, seat(if it has one)

[bicmudpuppy]

You do have water at the valve? The bleed screw does "bleed"? I would first make sure the valve was NOT the problem. It is a jar top, so opening the valve and stealing the diaphram for a minute or two (valve will leak like a sieve) is an easy test. Can you locate a head for this zone? Unscrew that head and apply water with a garden hose. If they cut and capped the wrong stuff, then the lateral still leaks where the repairs were (not) made.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

next step, dont cut any lines^^

just take the valve apart and see if any water comes out.

no water? line has been capped, probably not crushed b/c youd see a leak prob.

Better first step. i was assuming that water was coming from the external bleeder.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

You do have water at the valve? The bleed screw does "bleed"? I would first make sure the valve was NOT the problem. It is a jar top, so opening the valve and stealing the diaphram for a minute or two (valve will leak like a sieve) is an easy test. Can you locate a head for this zone? Unscrew that head and apply water with a garden hose. If they cut and capped the wrong stuff, then the lateral still leaks where the repairs were (not) made.

Even a better first step. I'm mentally slow today. better stick to easy stuff.

[Rainman7]

Walk Good,
This is Long Island.... I think you know what happened, the landscaper cut the lines bent them over and buried them. The homeowner saw the beautiful landscape job, paid the landscaper in full....landscaper smiled and left.

Or better yet...landscaper cut the lines at the new concrete work or fence then poured concrete on top of cut line to cap them off.

Good luck, don't forget T&M.

[PurpHaze]

Handle it like a sewer line clog. You'll have to find out where the "clog" is by using progressive troubleshooting techniques. Oh... and take pictures. :)

[WalkGood]

Yes, plenty of water comes out of the bleeder on top of the valve.

The landscaper swears he didn't bend the poly over, and that he did reconnect the poly. I believe him (I know him) that he reconnected "something". But I asked him if there was a tee and if he somehow reconnected the tee back to itself. At that point he said he couldn't be sure.

No one wants to pay to dig up the valve box (dirt burried inside, just the very top of the valves show). No one wants to dig in the new landscaped area(s) between the valve and the first head.

I did dig up just the first head and unscrew it with solenoid on and the collar wide open. Also tried the bleeder and all combinations. There was static water in there but not even a trickle of water movement.

As I mentioned, customer is more inclined to "backfeed" this zone from a different manifold to avoid messing up the new landscaping. Maybe then we'll see a leak at the zone's front end. But not until someone will pony up the money and pull the trigger to start work on it.

I was just wondering if a zonevalve would NOT flow water due to some flaw in the valve itself. Even if the collar on/off is opened and/or the bleeder is opened.

There is the possibility that there is a giant encrusted slug of mud/rocks inside the poly line (maybe an elbow) near the new work and it is acting like a shutoff valve.

Thanks for all the input.

[DanaMac]

It could fail closed, and I have seen many of them. If the small ports are clogged, it will not open. But it sounds like a clogged pipe. I have pulled out concrete from inside pipes where new fence posts were installed, along with the massive clog of dirt/rocks.

My tech was at a home yesterday where 2 valves were completely filled with rocks. Not sure if there was a mainline break/repair done recently. Only thought we could come up with.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

Just Dig It

[WalkGood]

Just Dig It

Sure, someone has to agree to "just pay for it" first! payup

I'll let the customer and landscaper figure that part out and continue on my merry way.

[Kiril]

I'm curious why the landscaper didn't verify the sprinklers worked when he fixed the stuff he broke.

Perhaps if you temporarily attached a garden hose to the end of the poly line you can determine where the problem is and fix it with a minimum of digging.

[DanaMac]

I'm curious why the landscaper didn't verify the sprinklers worked when he fixed the stuff he broke.

Because they usually don't care about the next contractor down the rung. Seen it many times where pipes and wires were put together wrong by whoever broke them. Most contractors "think" they know what they are doing and believe it is fixed correctly. or else their employees fixed it and have no clue how to check it, and won't contact anybody about it.

Just bury it, it'll be fine!!!

[Kiril]

Just bury it, it'll be fine!!!

That is, until all the plants he just put in die due to lack of water.

[PurpHaze]

No one wants to pay to dig up the valve box (dirt burried inside, just the very top of the valves show). No one wants to dig in the new landscaped area(s) between the valve and the first head.

Then it sounds like it's a done deal. Move along. :)

We can all "woulda/coulda/shoulda" this problem to death but it's a moot point if no one wants to pay to have the dang thing fixed. :laugh:

[PurpHaze]

Because they usually don't care about the next contractor down the rung. Seen it many times where pipes and wires were put together wrong by whoever broke them. Most contractors "think" they know what they are doing and believe it is fixed correctly. or else their employees fixed it and have no clue how to check it, and won't contact anybody about it.

Just bury it, it'll be fine!!!

Damn monkeys... "fixing" it is just the beginning. Making sure the valve/sprinklers/electrical is all properly back in good working order is a whole nuther animal. :)

[Rainman7]

I would go with what Kiril said and find a head, feed it with a garden hose. You may see the leak on one side of a tree,shrub,ect...

You said you know the landscaper, do you know the workers.

All it takes is one rock in a tee or coupling to stop water flow. Hopefully the heads aren't on funny pipe or swing joints, then all it takes is a small pebble and some dirt to shut down the zone.

In terms of responsibility, the homeowner and landscaper should split the costs. I'm a little confused about how the landscaper "friend" didn't let you in on this big landscape job and inform the customer that new plantings may require some irrigation modification. On that note, the landscaper should have left the cut lines exposed so you could get the job done more efficiently. Thats why some of the costs should be on the landscaper.

[unit28]

Just rebuild it like a pool install.

Take the valve out and put a 90 with a 2 foot pipe with a reducer down to 1/2 inch on the main and flusher out.
Put your valve back on :drinkup:

[WalkGood]

Then it sounds like it's a done deal. Move along. :)

We can all "woulda/coulda/shoulda" this problem to death but it's a moot point if no one wants to pay to have the dang thing fixed. :laugh:

It's probably a matter of who will blink first.

I might get called back there, so I want to be prepared if I do.

I wanted to at least dig up the valve and flush it out, change the "guts". But I've never seen a valve fail "closed", only leakers and runons. So I was asking here if that model valve can fail closed. No sense in changing the valve guts if it's not likely to be a valve failure.

The valve worked in the fall. Work was done recently in the area that the zone runs thru for 40 feet before its first head.

I am curious what the problemactually is. Will be funny if it *is* a tee line turned back on itself. Who has those x-ray glasses that can find blocked water? :dizzy:

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

Who has those x-ray glasses that can find blocked water? :dizzy:

What you need is a very talented WATER WITCHER. One who not only finds pipes but can tell the gpm flow.

[PurpHaze]

Who has those x-ray glasses that can find blocked water? :dizzy:

Peter doesn't have x-ray glasses but he has the ones that find brown spots. However, in my experience, where there's brown spots there's usually blocked water problems (except with helos and fireworks). :)