Rainbird ET h2o manager

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

If you carefully scrutinize posts and still have your long term memory intact in spite of prolonged exposure to glue you will know that I'm involved in a project involving a water smart bed and irrigation system at the Dallas Arboretum. Anyway we definitely wanted it to be an ET based watering system. After much thought and due to generosity we are going to install the Rainbird ET manager on the whole timer not just the bed zones. We are going to include a tipping rain gage to monitor on-site rainfall as well as local weather station data. Any feedback is welcome. it looks great on the site but I have no experience with this product and would like to appear some what knowledgeable.
http://www.rainbird.com/landscape/products/controllers/etmanager_tutorial.htm

[DanaMac]

One of our local water districts, Donala Water, has water restrictions starting this year. They also have a program where if you have them install this same ET manager, you are exempt from the restrictions. I don't know if they charge for it. Probably, but not sure how much. One customer had it installed 2 weeks ago. Well guess what, they loosened one terminal for one of the stations and it didn't water until I got there the other day, and that zone is crispy crunchy now.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

One of our local water districts, Donala Water, has water restrictions starting this year. They also have a program where if you have them install this same ET manager, you are exempt from the restrictions. I don't know if they charge for it. Probably, but not sure how much. One customer had it installed 2 weeks ago. Well guess what, they loosened one terminal for one of the stations and it didn't water until I got there the other day, and that zone is crispy crunchy now.

That sounds like installer error right? I do know their is a monthly fee involved. It acts as a break in the common but each zone is entered into it if I'm understanding it right.

[DanaMac]

Oh yeah, they installed it and everything was fine when I was out there a week prior adding and moving heads.

Not sure of fees and such for it. Haven't looked at it much. Actually that was the first time I'd seen one and I know squat about it.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

Oh yeah, they installed it and everything was fine when I was out there a week prior adding and moving heads.

Not sure of fees and such for it. Haven't looked at it much. Actually that was the first time I'd seen one and I know squat about it.

Well I'm fixin to get a real education so i'll keep posting tidbits as i learn them.

[DanaMac]

Here's a link to their site with restrictions listed and what the ET manager offers

http://www.donalawater.org/Rationing.html

[Kiril]

IMHO, if your not hooked into an on site weather station those ET controllers are a waste of money, especially if your forking out for the service. You can basically do the same thing as those controllers with historical data, proactive scheduling, and a regular controller. In my area, my ET schedules only need to be adjusted 3 times a year.

A link to some scheduling software if anyone is interested.

http://www.irrisoft.net/wr/insite.cfm

Given it is an arboretum, I would look into irrometers as a potential solution.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

IMHO, if your not hooked into an on site weather station those ET controllers are a waste of money, especially if your forking out for the service. You can basically do the same thing as those controllers with historical data, proactive scheduling, and a regular controller. In my area, my ET schedules only need to be adjusted 3 times a year.

A link to some scheduling software if anyone is interested.

http://www.irrisoft.net/wr/insite.cfm

Given it is an arboretum, I would look into irrometers as a potential solution.
I would have to strongly disagree with you on the ET controller issue. having used the WM smartline at my house fot past 1.5 year I would say it has adjusted far more often than three times a year. Where would you put the irrometer? You would need 100s installed for an accurate water management system at an arboretum.

[Kiril]

Placement of the irrometers would largely depend on zoning and the diversity of plant water requirements in that zone. If we assume a homogeneous soil and plantings are grouped based on water requirements, exposure, etc.. then you may only need one location per zone that represents the happy average.

The number of irrometers at that location would depend on what type of irrometer your using and what depth(s) your interested in monitoring.

My three times a year is based on my region and the ET schedules derived from the above software based on historical data (vs. real time) and is split as follows.

1) Late spring/early summer
2) Summer/early fall
3) Winter (system off)

Winter is the only time it rains, the rest of the year there is no rain.

I am fortunate enough to have a full blown Ag weather station within 5 miles or less of most all my irrigation locations, so that data is extremely accurate.

I also use ET data and water requirements on a per species basis where that data is available, which is something that controller (nor any ET controller to my knowledge) does.

If your just using the controller without a on-site weather station, your depending on the closest monitoring station, which may be 50-100 miles away.

In any event, I'm not saying they are worthless, just that you can essentially do the same thing in some cases (i.e. no on-site data) with a regular controller.

[Kiril]

This is my idea of a weather station, and optionally include a lysimeter with that.

http://wwwcimis.water.ca.gov/cimis/infoStnSensorSpec.jsp

[Kiril]

My apologies, I forgot the fall adjustment.

1) Late spring/early Summer
2) Summer/early Fall
3) Fall/early Winter
4) Winter (system off)

In some cases the fall/early winter schedule is the same as the late spring/early summer schedule.

I also provide a schedule in a spread sheet that has all the necessary data and instructions they need to modify the schedule. The spread sheet works as a one field adjustment, all the other fields are adjusted via macro's including protected water usage per scheduled run and per month for each zone.

Something I would like to see is a residential/commercial controller where schedules are done on a per valve basis. I think Toro used to make one, but they discontinued it.

[PurpHaze]

You can basically do the same thing as those controllers with historical data, proactive scheduling, and a regular controller. In my area, my ET schedules only need to be adjusted 3 times a year.

Don't know where you're located but sounds similar to my area. We have OFF (winter), 60% of base (spring), 100% base program (summer), 60% of base Fall) and then OFF (winter) again. Probably should only have OFF/ON/OFF in any particular season as that would usually suffice. :laugh:

[PurpHaze]

I also provide a schedule in a spread sheet that has all the necessary data and instructions they need to modify the schedule. The spread sheet works as a one field adjustment, all the other fields are adjusted via macro's including protected water usage per scheduled run and per month for each zone.

I'm responsible for 120+ controllers spread throughout 40+ school sites and there are about 15 of them that I track via Excel spreadsheet... either because they are critical sites/areas or someone (coaches, custodians, principals, do-gooders, etc.) is constantly dicking with the program so I want something in front of me to go off of. Barring a central control system the spreadsheets lay the entire program out in front of me so I can see the program as a whole instead of bits and pieces on a controller.

Couple that with CAD-generated zone maps of each site and one can get a pretty good idea of what is going on and where at a site. Sometimes I play a "can you name that zone" game with my partner where he'll say, for example only, "Sierra Vista, zone A-5" and I'll reply from memory, "varsity baseball field, infield/outfield arc, Hunter I-40 ADS sprinklers, etc." :)

[Kiril]

A central control system would be sweet. Imagine 120+ controllers you could monitor from a chair with a :drinkup:

Those excel schedules do come in handy, only problem I have with them is not tracking the on-site changes I make to the schedule. I used to carry all mine around on a PDA, but it kicked the bucket. Guess it's time to get a new one.

Don't know where you're located but sounds similar to my area.

Central Valley.

In my area, ETo values vary considerably in the summer compared to the other two adjustments points, so it really should be accounted for. In many cases as you pointed out, I set the baseline schedule for the summer, then adjust with the season adjust feature. The only time that fails is with turf, which may required a change in frequency as well.

I keep an eye on the weather and if we get conditions that vary excessively from historical averages I'll email all my clients and tell them to make the appropriate adjustment. Once again, in most cases that only applies to turf since wild fluctuations in weather like that usually do not last long enough to adversely affect the other zones.

I also try to maximize my water savings by only starting up the schedule for turf in the spring, and leave the rest off until the water stored in the soil from the winter gets to about 10% above PWP.

Wouldn't it be nice if the controller automatically changed zone frequency based on the amount of the season adjust percentage?

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

Wouldn't it be nice if the controller automatically changed zone frequency based on the amount of the season adjust percentage?

If I'm reading you right the WM smartline does this. If a customer doesn't want the weather monitor i can set each month as a percentage of the zone run times and it stays that way. HO and controllers don't mix so the more you can get it to do and the less HO interference the better.

[Kiril]

HO and controllers don't mix

No truer words have ever been spoken. I always tell my clients to trust the controller and schedule and to CALL ME if they notice something wrong. It never fails that 70-80% of them seem to think they know better and either trigger it manually because it "looks" dry, or totally jack the schedule because they have to "see" the system running in order to feel good.

I had a client a while back who blamed me for killing one of her hedges. After asking her some questions I discovered she had been manually triggering the schedule, and the plant that had died does not tolerate those kinds of water status changes. Needless to say I dismissed her claim and told her to stay out of the controller. Almost makes you want to install only locking cabinets and take all the keys with you.

For the schedule thing, I was thinking something like when you reach 150% of your baseline, the controller would automatically chop a day off so you get water a day earlier. This would be ideal for turf since more water may not be enough to accommodate the weather change. Since I tend to push my watering intervals to the max for turf, they show symptoms of water deficit quicker when faced with a temporary heat wave.

[Mike Leary]

I have had clients like that who could not keep their paws off the clock.
Solution? Hardie "Touch Command" clocks. Only airline pilots could run those
babies!

[zman9119]

If I'm reading you right the WM smartline does this. If a customer doesn't want the weather monitor i can set each month as a percentage of the zone run times and it stays that way. HO and controllers don't mix so the more you can get it to do and the less HO interference the better.

The new Rain Bird ESP-LXi Mod. allows you to do this too.

.mz

[DanaMac]

Here is another area close by that is now prohibiting water. Area is close to my house, and they stopped all watering a few years ago as well. They are actually only allowing watering with a handheld device, and only on certain days. I have a redesign bid for a home in this area. It is mainly beds, planters, shrubs, trees, and garden. No turf. Existing is mix of drip and microsprays, and I was going to change to all drip except for 12" heads for the gardens. I am going to change my design to NetaFim in the gardens and just have sitting on surface. Still not sure if they will allow drip to operate though.

existing system is a piece of junk, one year old system from another "sprinkler guy".

http://www.gazette.com/articles/_24375___article.html/_.html

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

My sister lives in Bellevue? north of Fort Collins. She was telling me the wells are running dry and people are having to haul in water in the canyon she lives in. Killing the home values there. She tells me CO forbids rainwater harvesting.

[DanaMac]

My sister lives in Bellevue? north of Fort Collins. She was telling me the wells are running dry and people are having to haul in water in the canyon she lives in. Killing the home values there. She tells me CO forbids rainwater harvesting.

It has something to do with water rights. If it makes it to the reservoirs and wells, it's ours. If not, it's Purps!!!! No large containers (legally) to store water from downspouts and the like.

[PurpHaze]

It has something to do with water rights. If it makes it to the reservoirs and wells, it's ours. If not, it's Purps!!!! No large containers (legally) to store water from downspouts and the like.

Oh SURE... blame me for all your water woes just because I live in a state of Kalifornication. :laugh:

[Kiril]

I don't think purp lives far enough south for it to be his, but he might want it all the same. ;)

I took a water law class a while back and don't recall there being any law related to rain interception, but then in this country, nothing is out of the realm of possibility.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

I don't think purp lives far enough south for it to be his, but he might want it all the same. ;)

I took a water law class a while back and don't recall there being any law related to rain interception, but then in this country, nothing is out of the realm of possibility.

State vs federal I suspect. My sis in CO was telling me that NE farmers have first water rights (they ponied up the money) and this killed CO farmers.

[PurpHaze]

I don't think purp lives far enough south for it to be his, but he might want it all the same. ;)

Got that right. Last time I looked the Colorado river water was pumped into Lake Matthews down south for LA's use. We do have the California Aquaduct running along the west side of the valley to LA but that just bypasses us also.