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View Full Version : Is this the kind of grease gun you need?


Vikings
06-29-2007, 07:09 PM
My Toro 36 wb is starting to squeak. It has maybe 30 hours on it so I'm going to buy a grease gun but I'm not sure if all grease guns are equal. There is a mini gun.. also is grease grease? do I need special grease?

http://www.canadiantire.ca/browse/product_detail.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=1408474396672446&bmUID=1183158381030&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442200759&assortment=primary&fromSearch=true

bigtex
06-29-2007, 08:34 PM
any grease gun will work. the small ones with the flexible hose are good for the mowers cause you can get to all grease fittings usually with no problem. but get those fittings greased now. thats why there there. if your in the biz you want your stuff as maintenance ($) free as possible, greas'em offend.

IN2MOWN
06-29-2007, 08:38 PM
I agree with bigtex about the flexible hose. I use machine grease. You can get it an autoparts store.

GREASE EVERY NIGHT RIGHT AFTER YOU GET DONE SHARPENING YOUR BLADES...EVERY NIGHT!

When you are done with that then tap the air filters out.

Its daily routine maint.!

LwnmwrMan22
06-29-2007, 09:52 PM
I agree with bigtex about the flexible hose. I use machine grease. You can get it an autoparts store.

GREASE EVERY NIGHT RIGHT AFTER YOU GET DONE SHARPENING YOUR BLADES...EVERY NIGHT!

When you are done with that then tap the air filters out.

Its daily routine maint.!

In 19 years of mowing, I"ve thrown 3 spindles.

One was a sealed spindle (non-greasable), one got fishing line into it, and one dropped with about 100 hours on the hour meter on a new machine.

I grease my mowers every 150-200 hours, usually about 4 times / year.

It's just my experience, not saying it's for everyone.

Also, I use 100% synthetic, waterproof lithium grease from Amsoil.

Jason Rose
06-29-2007, 10:25 PM
I wouldn't wast time with a "mini" type grease gun. For the cost it's the same to get a normal sized model with a flex hose. It's easier to get grease for them, and they run out of grease fast being the full size ones, can't imigine how breifly a mini one would last...

I also grease every 50 to 100 hours. Greasing everyday is rather silly. you are just pushing out grease all the time and wiping it off doing that. Plus many things that have bearings with seals can't tolerate being greased that much. Seals blow out and then they wear out prematurely because dirt can get it.

IN2MOWN
06-29-2007, 10:36 PM
Maybe the spindles dont need it but the casters need daily greasing and so do my sulky bearings. More so in dusty and dry conditions. Nothing silly about proper maintenance.

Grits
06-29-2007, 10:43 PM
I have had both small and big grease guns. get a big gun with the flex hose. I grease quite often, about once per week....especially the casters.
When using the small gun, I will easily go through one tube of grease sometimes almost 2....(2 mowers with Jungle Wheels).

Vikings
06-29-2007, 11:12 PM
thanks guys. I'm going to get a full sized grease gun and try and find synthetic grease.


Now how about the oil. I'm going to be changing that too for the first time on this machine. I've done it lots of times on the smaller one of course but, I want to use synthetic on the 36".

I know certain people (Like Topsites) says he uses 10w30 but my understanding of that phrase is that when the oil get hot is acts like 10. Lawn mower oil, the regular stuff is SAE 30 and when it gets hot, it always acts like its 30. I'm kinda perplexed about that.

Ideally I would like to put everything on synthetic oil, including my trucks. Since synthetic lasts longer and I hate oil changes.


IN short, is 10w30 synthetic ok (if not superior) for 15 HP lawn mower engine?

Taylor Yardworks
06-29-2007, 11:38 PM
thanks guys. I'm going to get a full sized grease gun and try and find synthetic grease.


Now how about the oil. I'm going to be changing that too for the first time on this machine. I've done it lots of times on the smaller one of course but, I want to use synthetic on the 36".

I know certain people (Like Topsites) says he uses 10w30 but my understanding of that phrase is that when the oil get hot is acts like 10. Lawn mower oil, the regular stuff is SAE 30 and when it gets hot, it always acts like its 30. I'm kinda perplexed about that.

Ideally I would like to put everything on synthetic oil, including my trucks. Since synthetic lasts longer and I hate oil changes.


IN short, is 10w30 synthetic ok (if not superior) for 15 HP lawn mower engine?
I was in the oil biz for a few years....here's he deal.

A multi-viscosity oil starts out thin and then thickens up as it gets hot, that means a 10W30 oil is a 10 weight (thin) when cold and turns into a 30 weight (thick) when hot. The reason for this is called flow rate, the lower the viscosity (thin) the faster the oil spreads throughout the engine on cold start ups thus lubricating everything quicker. Then when the engine reaches operating temperature, the oil increases viscosity (gets thicker) to increase oil pressure thus increasing horsepower.

What should you use in your mower....I ALWAYS use what the engine manufacturer says to use...period. If they say use conventional 10W30, don't assume that synthetic 10W30 will be better just because it makes YOU feel better. Sometimes synthetics cause harm to certain engines ( flow rates of synthetics are MUCH faster and can flow right around seals in engines not built for them causing leaks, lower oil pressure, and less power. Believe me, it is always safer to use the recommended oil....but you can always contact the engine manufacturer with your model number and serial number and ask them if its to your advantage to use synthetics.

Hope this helps!!!

Ken

Vikings
06-29-2007, 11:55 PM
I was in the oil biz for a few years....here's he deal.

A multi-viscosity oil starts out thin and then thickens up as it gets hot, that means a 10W30 oil is a 10 weight (thin) when cold and turns into a 30 weight (thick) when hot. The reason for this is called flow rate, the lower the viscosity (thin) the faster the oil spreads throughout the engine on cold start ups thus lubricating everything quicker. Then when the engine reaches operating temperature, the oil increases viscosity (gets thicker) to increase oil pressure thus increasing horsepower.

What should you use in your mower....I ALWAYS use what the engine manufacturer says to use...period. If they say use conventional 10W30, don't assume that synthetic 10W30 will be better just because it makes YOU feel better. Sometimes synthetics cause harm to certain engines ( flow rates of synthetics are MUCH faster and can flow right around seals in engines not built for them causing leaks, lower oil pressure, and less power. Believe me, it is always safer to use the recommended oil....but you can always contact the engine manufacturer with your model number and serial number and ask them if its to your advantage to use synthetics.

Hope this helps!!!

Ken

That really does help. I thought it was the opposite, that as the oil got hot it got thinner... seems counter intuitive. It also (at least in my mind) bolsters the case for synthetic because because it will get hot and then start acting like a 30 weight.

That SAE 30 oil is as expensive or more so, then synthetic.. I better get it from the horses mouth like you say.

Thanks.

steve45
06-30-2007, 12:51 AM
No, 10w30 does not get more viscous ('thicker') as it gets hotter. When it's cold (I don't know the temperature used in the specification) the oil flows like a standard 10 weight oil. As it heats up (again, don't know the specific temperature), it flows like a 30 weight oil, at the high temperature.

The multi-viscosity oil doesn't get thicker, it just doesn't thin out as much as a standard oil.

I use a large grease gun with a rubber hose. I much prefer a needle tip over a 'standard' tip. I is a lot easier to use.

topsites
06-30-2007, 01:00 AM
Yeah right, well I bought 3-4 grease guns from Northern so when one fouls up I got another one loaded and ready, you really do need at least TWO though. They can be fixed, it is rare to get one that won't act right for many years, but it takes practice to fix them, best to have 1-2 spares.

As for grease, I use Mag-1, $0.89 a tube but I bought it when it was on sale for 79 cents each, I grease daily. Unfortunately, the use of synthetics here has done little, it does not appear to prolong wear and tear on the brass bushings. I replace brass bushings once / year (on casters and velke), doesn't matter what I use.
However, synth may prolong blade bearing life, mine are all sealed.

As for engines, dyno oil thins as it heats up and thickens as it cools.
Synthetic does it a lot less, so I run thinner oils when running synths.
They provide an overkill amount of protection, they do perform best on high compression AND high rpm engines. But the real reason I run synthetic is so the engine doesn't seize on me.
Run dynos and I guarantee you'll seize an engine sooner or later.

causalitist
06-30-2007, 01:05 AM
In 19 years of mowing, I"ve thrown 3 spindles.

One was a sealed spindle (non-greasable), one got fishing line into it, and one dropped with about 100 hours on the hour meter on a new machine.

I grease my mowers every 150-200 hours, usually about 4 times / year.

It's just my experience, not saying it's for everyone.

Also, I use 100% synthetic, waterproof lithium grease from Amsoil.

now there is some information backed up by something .. i dont see that very often on here. what is your opinion on the durability of greaseless spindles?

i use amsoil, their standard synthetic stuff, not the racing grease or anything, which one do you use?
i only use it in the spindles though ... on my old greaseable-spindle mower lol

causalitist
06-30-2007, 01:11 AM
That really does help. I thought it was the opposite, that as the oil got hot it got thinner... seems counter intuitive. It also (at least in my mind) bolsters the case for synthetic because because it will get hot and then start acting like a 30 weight.

That SAE 30 oil is as expensive or more so, then synthetic.. I better get it from the horses mouth like you say.

Thanks.


it IS thinner as it gets hotter ... it acts like a 30 would when hot ...
and acts like a 10 would when cold .... but it still is thinner when hot and thicker when cold, these are just the limits to how thin or thick.

my opinion is to use synthetics, but use the viscosity you are told to.

Vikings
06-30-2007, 01:36 AM
my opinion is to use synthetics, but use the viscosity you are told to.
Well 10w30 it is but it asks for SAE 10w30 and SAE 10w40. I guess for the hot days it wants 10w40. We do have a few days over 35C here.

Edit: oh, and thanks for clearing up the viscosity issue guys.

02DURAMAX
06-30-2007, 01:48 AM
Maybe the spindles dont need it but the casters need daily greasing and so do my sulky bearings. More so in dusty and dry conditions. Nothing silly about proper maintenance.

I too don't think you need to grease every night.....I do it once a week on the casters and every 50-75Hrs on the spindles and every thing else....Greasing every night is just to much grease.....

causalitist
06-30-2007, 03:50 AM
Well 10w30 it is but it asks for SAE 10w30 and SAE 10w40. I guess for the hot days it wants 10w40. We do have a few days over 35C here.

Edit: oh, and thanks for clearing up the viscosity issue guys.

only if the oil was $0.50 a quart would i check if its SAE .. otherwise thats assumed.

dhardin53
06-30-2007, 04:23 AM
Funny this topic just came up about grease guns and grease. I just picked up a very nice 12v grease gun made by Lincoln.

http://www.lincolnindustrial.com/asp/products/greaseguns/12v.asp

I know its costly but boy it makes a messy job a lot faster and cleaner. I was surprised, now I grease my becks more often with this great tool.

My wife almost had a cow when she saw what I paid for it, but what the hay I'm make money I might as well spend some. I got mine at the farm supply store Big R for $165.

LwnmwrMan22
06-30-2007, 06:56 AM
Funny this topic just came up about grease guns and grease. I just picked up a very nice 12v grease gun made by Lincoln.

http://www.lincolnindustrial.com/asp/products/greaseguns/12v.asp

I know its costly but boy it makes a messy job a lot faster and cleaner. I was surprised, now I grease my becks more often with this great tool.

My wife almost had a cow when she saw what I paid for it, but what the hay I'm make money I might as well spend some. I got mine at the farm supply store Big R for $165.

I've got the Lincoln too. Mine's cordless. It's nice because you can hold the tip on to certain zerks if they're at an odd angle, you don't need to hold the grease gun with one hand, and pump with the other.

Casualist -

I use Amsoil's lithium waterproof grease. I can't really tell you an exact price per tube, since I order about $600-700 of Amsoil (grease / oil) at the beginning of the year each spring.

It's what I've always used, and have had minimal failures on anything, with minimal maintenance, so IMO, price doesn't matter.

Anyways, I HATE HATE HATE sealed spindles. IMO, they don't last. I had (2) Ferris Zero turn mowers, and both dumped all the spindle assemblies right around 600 hours.

Jeepster
06-30-2007, 07:19 AM
Dont get the lever release gun. They are fine if you have 3 hands. Look for the pistol release gun. That way you can operate the gun with one hand while holding the buisness end on the zerk.
The lever gun will give you more power pumping grease into neglected zerks but if the zerk is taking the grease that hard the end will either pop off or will be a bear to get off. A pistol grip is fine on new and maintained zerks.

http://s7.sears.com/is/image/Sears/00920379000?qlt=90,0&resMode=sharp&op_usm=0.9,0.5,0,0&rgn=0,0,640,640&scl=2.56&fmt=jpeg&id=11c2znIUIgoD6WHgyM648E

Taylor Yardworks
06-30-2007, 09:26 AM
No, 10w30 does not get more viscous ('thicker') as it gets hotter. When it's cold (I don't know the temperature used in the specification) the oil flows like a standard 10 weight oil. As it heats up (again, don't know the specific temperature), it flows like a 30 weight oil, at the high temperature.

The multi-viscosity oil doesn't get thicker, it just doesn't thin out as much as a standard oil.

I use a large grease gun with a rubber hose. I much prefer a needle tip over a 'standard' tip. I is a lot easier to use.

I was metaphorically speaking (trying to use a verbal picture) about how viscosity works in motor oil in relation to temperature. Yes, motor oil pours easier when hot than when cold (thinner)....even though the engine "thinks" it is (thicker) because the viscosity has gone up. I mistakenly thought my thick and thin terminology would be understood and not taken literally...my bust.

I've included the following tech report on this issue and they explain it much better than myself. Bottom line though, the use of recommended oils is the best application for each engine....if you understand the chemistry or not.

Highs & Lows

Low-viscosity oils flow better than high-viscosity ones—the lighter-weight fluid is easier to pump and therefore circulates faster through the engine's various galleries. Low-viscosity oils also maintain a lower oil pressure, but the oil pump delivers a greater volume through the galleries than it would with thicker (higher-viscosity) oils. Heavier oils also tend to operate at higher temperatures because the oil pump has to work harder to force the lubricant through the system. Oil does not compress readily, so the added pressure increases the temperature. In the end, high-viscosity oils maintain a higher oil pressure, but the pump delivers a smaller volume of oil.

Multigrades:

Multigrade oils typically begin as base oils, such as 10W. Then viscosity-index modifiers (polymers) are added in an effort to stabilize the viscosity. This allows a 10W40 oil to flow like a 10W at cold temperatures and a 40W at higher temperatures. In other words, multigrade oils are formulated to pass viscosity tests across a range of weights. For example, 10W30 meets the requirements for 10-weight at cold temperatures and 30-weight at operating temperatures.

tomo
06-30-2007, 09:26 AM
hello,
[mower application] typically greases are divided into 2 catagories
---high temperature,high speed bearings
--- high load joint application ,molybedenium grease



recomendations for grease dual purpose ,one that is capable of both catergories is a little tricky only some makers do this application and then only in selected sizes . Donot be told slow ""bearing grease"" is acceptable it is not .

I personally use Castrol APXT available in cartridge form for grease guns as i stated for spindles , trimmer gear heads , hedge trimmer gear boxes etc

For all other applications bushed joints etc i use moly type grease from a 4 gallon tub air operated in work shop . Typically i use air as there r many moly grease points on a machine compared to high speed grease type [spindles etc]

Most points will require greasing at least once every 50hrs
Frequency depends on usage etc
Greasing of spindles every 25 hrs on my Toro spindles is the oem recomendation
I grease 1--2 times a week

typically a regularly greased machine may only take 1-3 pumps of grease for each zerk makes 4 clean/quick greasing

tomo:waving:

khouse
06-30-2007, 10:12 AM
I have used Amsoil since the late 70's
There are no synthetic oil specific engines.
You would go by the oil ratings and weight which synthetic oil surpasses.

Taylor Yardworks
06-30-2007, 11:48 PM
I have used Amsoil since the late 70's
There are no synthetic oil specific engines.
You would go by the oil ratings and weight which synthetic oil surpasses.
Using Synthetic Oils in Rotary Engines


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This has got to be one of the most frequently asked questions ever!

Here is our answer:
The Rotary engine has an oil injection system that injects small amounts of oil into either the intake tract, carb, or rotor housing (depending on year/model). This is needed to lubricate the various internal seals and surfaces.

The injected oil MUST BURN, and must burn clean. The root answer to the question is that not ALL synthetic oils burn, and not ALL of them burn clean. (Idemitsu Rotary Engine Oil is the only known exception - see below)
The ones that do not burn accumulate until they foul the spark plugs.
The ones that do not burn clean can leave residues of various substances (like ash? plastic? non-organic sand?) that accumulate until the spark plugs foul, or a seal sticks -- could be apex seal, side seal, corner seal, or oil control ring. The normal consequence of a stuck seal is an engine tear down.

In the many years we have been involved in rotary engines, we have NEVER had a problem with GOOD petroleum based oils. They work fine! They are less expensive than synthetics. (We use Castrol 20-50 GTX). They burn clean, etc. etc.

khouse
07-02-2007, 06:23 PM
I contacted Amsoil's tech department and they told me that Amsoil works in Maxda rotary engines. Since I never worked on a rotary I didn't know really how it lubricated. I should have maybe said "piston engines"