Need Professional Help

[nurthys]

No pun intended for the title.:hammerhead:
I am a homeowner and I would like some advice regarding some quotes that I received for a sprinkler system. First of all I am not asking about prices just opinions on the proposed systems. All three are Hunter systems, be nice guys for those of you that do not like Hunter.
System 1
8 Zones
4 I-20 Rotors 4”
4 Pro spay pop ups 4”
Pro-C controller
1 PVB
1” PVC for main line and 1” poly for laterals
System 2
7 Zones
4 I-20 Rotors 4”
3 SRS pop up 4”
Pro-C controller
1 PVB
1” PVC for main line and 1” poly for laterals
System 3
9 Zones
5 PGP Rotors 6”
4 SRS pop up 6”
Pro-C controller
1 PVB
1” PVC for main line and 1” poly for laterals
Why use Poly? I am ignorant when it comes to poly.
Wireless rain click included
All 3 companies are with a few hundred dollars so the price is not an issue, my questions are as follows.
Without seeing a layout of my lawn why should I choose one system over the other? All companies have been in business for at least 10 years, warranties are about the same, all three are using SRV and or PGV valves. Do I really need the ability to shut off one of the rotors as I can with the I-20? If I need a check valve it can be installed in the PGP rotors. Also one of the companies talked about doing a “sump pump extension drain. I understand the concept but I cannot find any pictures of the finished product. Thanks in advance for the opinions and if you need more info let me know.
All companies are using

[londonrain]

Go with the I-20's and Pro spray pop ups 4” and stay away from the SRV valves. I-20's have a stronger spring than a PGP and SRS pops are a lower quality than the Pro sprays...Same with the SRV valves they are lower quality than the PVG.

[PurpHaze]

Go with the I-20's and Pro spray pop ups 4” and stay away from the SRV valves. I-20's have a stronger spring than a PGP and SRS pops are a lower quality than the Pro sprays...Same with the SRV valves they are lower quality than the PVG.

Agree... however, PGPs could be substituted for I-20s depending on the exact area configuration. I'd also like to know what the sprays will cover and whether MP-Rotators would work instead. Too many variables without seeing a scaled plot plan, slope requirements, etc. and planting material listing.

[nurthys]

Agree... however, PGPs could be substituted for I-20s depending on the exact area configuration. I'd also like to know what the sprays will cover and whether MP-Rotators would work instead. Too many variables without seeing a scaled plot plan, slope requirements, etc. and planting material listing.

The front is 85 feet wide by 40 feet in length. I have a drive way and sidewalks that run across the front. I have one tree in the center of my front yard, which is pretty flat. The sides are 15 feet wide, 25 feet in length and the back is 54feet in length by 50 feet wide. I have a 10 degree grade away from the house in the back and one tree in the back yard. The landscaping in the front is minimal as this is a new construction home that was built on farm land. The 500.00 for landscaping allowance was burned up on the two trees and a few shrubs. I would prefer to have the I-20's but one installed said that the only differnece was the check valve, the larger spring and the ability to shut down each head should I need it. By the way I am not one of the homeowners that wants the cheapest system and I am sure that you all have run across them at least once or twice. I want the best that I can afford and a quality product.

[PurpHaze]

I would prefer to have the I-20's but one installed said that the only differnece was the check valve, the larger spring and the ability to shut down each head should I need it. By the way I am not one of the homeowners that wants the cheapest system and I am sure that you all have run across them at least once or twice. I want the best that I can afford and a quality product.

Both the I-20 and PGP are quality sprinklers in my book. If money is no issue and depending on soil type you might ask your bidders about using the I-20s with stainless steel risers. We use nothing but SS riser sprinklers (school district situation) where available and they tend to hold up under brutal soil conditions better than sprinklers with plastic risers. And, depending on other variables such as turf type and anticipated mowing height, you might want to consider the 6" version instead of 4". There's a LOT of different ways to attack a system even within a given manufacturer model.

[nurthys]

Both the I-20 and PGP are quality sprinklers in my book. If money is no issue and depending on soil type you might ask your bidders about using the I-20s with stainless steel risers. We use nothing but SS riser sprinklers (school district situation) where available and they tend to hold up under brutal soil conditions better than sprinklers with plastic risers. And, depending on other variables such as turf type and anticipated mowing height, you might want to consider the 6" version instead of 4". There's a LOT of different ways to attack a system even within a given manufacturer model.

I have looked at the SS risers for the I-20 but I did not see the need. Here in the mid-west, we have the best clay soil around. Right now any of the three systems will be hard for me to sell to the wife as we have received over 5" of rain in the last 3 days. I try to listen to the "experts" when it comes to the height of my lawn so I cut it at 3". I was concerned when I saw the other bids quoting 4", that is why I requested the one company to quote 6" heads. I have Bluegrass for the turf which is very thirsty.

[PurpHaze]

Right now any of the three systems will be hard for me to sell to the wife as we have received over 5" of rain in the last 3 days.

It sounds like you've done your homework and know what the system will entail. But remind your wife that it will pay for itself in time saved when there is no rain and you have to end up dragging hoses all over the place. :)

[Kiril]

Optimal cutting height for blue grass is 2". So in the summer I would mow at 2.5" and move that up to 3" if it gets blinding hot. Given that, 4" rotors are fine.

I agree with Purp on the I20 and PGP. The I20 has some nice features, but you pay a premium for them, and unless your dealing with alot of sand, SS risers are a luxury. I don't see why PGP's would not work here.

Personally I prefer the ICC (my controller of choice) over the Pro-C.

[nurthys]

Here is some additional info that may/may not matter. PSI is 65 and GPM is 10. Only one of the listed companies will come of the water line inside the home instead of just past the meter. Pro's or Con's please, the other two will tap into the water line just past the meter run the pipe next to the house where the PVB will be installed.
When I compared the heads listed at the begining it was similar to comparing a Chevy to a Cadillac. Very similar but just enough difference to make me wonder. One contractor told me that if I went to the I-20 over the PGP rotors the cost would be an addtional 400.00. Obviously this price would include an additional mark up but why not try and upsell? Too many cheap homeonwers? Or at least list it as an option.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

Upselling is good. You want I-20s with stainless steel, 6" heads with pressure compensating and ck valves. All heads on sch 40 swing joints. Brass nozzles, brass valves with pressure regulators. ET based clock being run by National Weather Service weather stations along with an on site rain gage. Sch 40 pipe. Copper risers where nescessary. Moisture meter readings to determine proper zone run times. All valves in 10" boxes with gravel underneath. 14 gage wiring.All employees of the installing company being provided health insurance and workers comp by the owners. I'll think of some more stuff and post.

[nurthys]

Upselling is good. You want I-20s with stainless steel, 6" heads with pressure compensating and ck valves. All heads on sch 40 swing joints. Brass nozzles, brass valves with pressure regulators. ET based clock being run by National Weather Service weather stations along with an on site rain gage. Sch 40 pipe. Copper risers where nescessary. Moisture meter readings to determine proper zone run times. All valves in 10" boxes with gravel underneath. 14 gage wiring.All employees of the installing company being provided health insurance and workers comp by the owners. I'll think of some more stuff and post.

Where is the "if you act now you can get all this for only $19.95 and if you call within the next ten minutes we will cut your payment in half" I thought all of the above was standard on any install.....it isn't:confused:

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

Where is the "if you act now you can get all this for only $19.95 and if you call within the next ten minutes we will cut your payment in half" I thought all of the above was standard on any install.....it isn't:confused:

It would be nice. It would put us service guys fighting for very little business. You've done your homework so I'm sure you will find a good happy medium. The area that I would really focus on is having the equipment working according to the manufacturers specs. spray nozzles work best at @ 35psi. Most systems here (Dallas) are working at way too high psi. Good design and proper zoning is very important as well.

[nurthys]

It would be nice. It would put us service guys fighting for very little business. You've done your homework so I'm sure you will find a good happy medium. The area that I would really focus on is having the equipment working according to the manufacturers specs. spray nozzles work best at @ 35psi. Most systems here (Dallas) are working at way too high psi. Good design and proper zoning is very important as well.

Thanks for the advice and thanks for sending all that damn rain our way. We received another 1"-1.5" since yesterday...now I will never get a sprinkler system.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

Thanks for the advice and thanks for sending all that damn rain our way. We received another 1"-1.5" since yesterday...now I will never get a sprinkler system.

It has been unreal with the rain. I think more is on the way. Sad thing is everybody (including your wife it sounds like) forgets we were in a drought here for three years. Long term, if the scientists are correct, we will be back in a drought.

[Kiril]

We are talking about a residence here, not commercial?

Based on his measurements, he's probably sitting on a quarter acre at best. If he puts in all top of the line stuff plus forking out for weather service data, that's gonna be a real hard sell to his wife. I20 with a SS shaft is a heavy duty commercial grade rotor, where the PGP would be considered residential/light commercial. I maintain you choose the rotor that is appropriate for the application unless you have money to burn.

Upselling is good if you can afford it, but as long as you design the system properly (design is very important) and stick with time tested products like PGP's, that should be fine for any residence. Also give long consideration on how the system will cope as your landscape matures. More often than not the initial system becomes inefficient at best because the design did not account for a fully matured landscape.

I might suggest an ET controller to someone who wants to set and forget and doesn't mind forking out the cash for it (easily 3 times the cost of a standard controller), but this guy sounds like he's on the ball and could probably do without the ET controller and service and use the free software instead. So right there I just saved him at least $700 bucks just by going with PGP's and an ICC controller.

Keep in mind, if you do use the ET controller you still need to monitor the system (eg. moisture probes), especially during that first season.

Important thing is to compare the pros and cons of all the available options and decide which one your willing to live with and pay for, and most importantly how it will age with your landscape. It would suck to drop 3-5 grand on a system just to be faced with a renovation 10 years later because it was poorly designed.

I am curious what the 9 zones are covering on a lot that size considering you only have 7-9 sprinklers in those specs?

[Kiril]

Long term, if the scientists are correct, we will be back in a drought.

And then ice age. No rain here, never any rain, no excuse to take a day off.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

We are talking about a residence here, not commercial?

Based on his measurements, he's probably sitting on a quarter acre at best. If he puts in all top of the line stuff plus forking out for weather service data, that's gonna be a real hard sell to his wife. I20 with a SS shaft is a heavy duty commercial grade rotor, where the PGP would be considered residential/light commercial. I maintain you choose the rotor that is appropriate for the application unless you have money to burn.

Upselling is good if you can afford it, but as long as you design the system properly (design is very important) and stick with time tested products like PGP's, that should be fine for any residence. Also give long consideration on how the system will cope as your landscape matures. More often than not the initial system becomes inefficient at best because the design did not account for a fully matured landscape.

I might suggest an ET controller to someone who wants to set and forget and doesn't mind forking out the cash for it (easily 3 times the cost of a standard controller), but this guy sounds like he's on the ball and could probably do without the ET controller and service and use the free software instead. So right there I just saved him at least $700 bucks just by going with PGP's and an ICC controller.

Keep in mind, if you do use the ET controller you still need to monitor the system (eg. moisture probes), especially during that first season.

Important thing is to compare the pros and cons of all the available options and decide which one your willing to live with and pay for, and most importantly how it will age with your landscape. It would suck to drop 3-5 grand on a system just to be faced with a renovation 10 years later because it was poorly designed.

I am curious what the 9 zones are covering on a lot that size considering you only have 7-9 sprinklers in those specs?
Uh Kiril, You need to learn how to recognize tongue in cheek comments. their are many made here. If it will help you out until you are up to speed i will include TIC after my posts.

[Kiril]

Yea, I got that after I read your following posts. Sry, didn't mean to jump your case, Usually I can spot them. Guess it's time for a :drinkup:

[PurpHaze]

Uh Kiril, You need to learn how to recognize tongue in cheek comments. their are many made here. If it will help you out until you are up to speed i will include TIC after my posts.

Yea, I got that after I read your following posts. Sry, didn't mean to jump your case, Usually I can spot them.

Don't ever apologize to Peter since he always speaks with a forked (I mean TIC) tongue. He has a split personality (his other one goes by the forum moniker Remote Pigtails) and the one half never knows what the other one is up to. :laugh:

[nurthys]

We are talking about a residence here, not commercial?

Based on his measurements, he's probably sitting on a quarter acre at best. If he puts in all top of the line stuff plus forking out for weather service data, that's gonna be a real hard sell to his wife. I20 with a SS shaft is a heavy duty commercial grade rotor, where the PGP would be considered residential/light commercial. I maintain you choose the rotor that is appropriate for the application unless you have money to burn.

Upselling is good if you can afford it, but as long as you design the system properly (design is very important) and stick with time tested products like PGP's, that should be fine for any residence. Also give long consideration on how the system will cope as your landscape matures. More often than not the initial system becomes inefficient at best because the design did not account for a fully matured landscape.

I might suggest an ET controller to someone who wants to set and forget and doesn't mind forking out the cash for it (easily 3 times the cost of a standard controller), but this guy sounds like he's on the ball and could probably do without the ET controller and service and use the free software instead. So right there I just saved him at least $700 bucks just by going with PGP's and an ICC controller.

Keep in mind, if you do use the ET controller you still need to monitor the system (eg. moisture probes), especially during that first season.

Important thing is to compare the pros and cons of all the available options and decide which one your willing to live with and pay for, and most importantly how it will age with your landscape. It would suck to drop 3-5 grand on a system just to be faced with a renovation 10 years later because it was poorly designed.

I am curious what the 9 zones are covering on a lot that size considering you only have 7-9 sprinklers in those specs?


You are correct about the 1/4 acre and this is a residential. What I am more concerned about is putting in PGP rotors and then a year later wishing I would have upgraded to the I-20's. I wanted and received and unbiased opinions from an outside source. I recently had to purchase a new condenser for my A/C unit and I went to an A/C site like this and I basically heard the same stuff. You could buy the top of the line but if the installer cuts corners or does a crappy install you will have crap.

As far as nine zones are concerned, I will eventually kill one zone when I install my deck and I requested that all heads in this area to be on one zone, easier for me down the road. So truely I will only have 8 once the deck is completed. These sprinklers are for the turf only, no drips getting installed at this time.

I talked to all bidders about my future plans when it comes to landscaping so I hope they took this into account when they designed the systems. Best case scenario I have to have a few heads relocated in the next few years.

I know nothing about the ET controller so I cannot comment on that.

As a consumer I feel that we should try and educate ourselves when it comes to things like this. I am smart enough to know that Hunter, Rainbird or whomever will not discuss problems that installers had out in the field so that is why I came here to get your opinions and likes/dislikes. I appreciate the honesty that is spoken in the post with the occasional sarcasm.

Last but not least, in the original post I asked about the sump pump drain extension. Anyone care to explain and post pics if available. The one installer talked about the water coming out of a head or something.

[bicmudpuppy]

Extending the plumbing for the sump pump is something a lot of guys in your area might do. This gets the water away from the house/yard and out either to the curb or water shed so it doesn't leave one area wetter than another. As far as the outlet goes, they probably included a "pop-up" on the end of the pipe. This is just a 90 degree elboe with a cap on it that "pops up" when the water runs down the pipe. The cap is a gravity device for closing. If they are maintained (means you have to keep up with it), they help by keeping the pipe closed to larger critters and only open when enough rain is flowing to float the cap.

[hoskm01]

Only one of the listed companies will come of the water line inside the home instead of just past the meter. Pro's or Con's please, the other two will tap into the water line just past the meter run the pipe next to the house where the PVB will be installed.




In my opinion, and this is based on our situation in AZ, running any system from an in-house stub is a big no-no. Typically you're looking at 3/4" inlet in to the house and maybe a 1/2" stub outside to a spigot or the like where you might tap a sprinkler main. Additionally, most homes here have a soft water system (very hard water) which adds sodium to the water. Maybe this is not the worst thing for the water, but I'd want the water to be as natural as possible. If no soft water system, if you ran the water through the house, it just seems like your putting a lot of water through pipes that are harder to access should the need arise in lets say 20 years; wearing them out with deposits also needlessly.

There would be no reason to run the water through the house rather than down the side of the house. Definitely go for the exterior main to your sprinkler system.

[nurthys]

Extending the plumbing for the sump pump is something a lot of guys in your area might do. This gets the water away from the house/yard and out either to the curb or water shed so it doesn't leave one area wetter than another. As far as the outlet goes, they probably included a "pop-up" on the end of the pipe. This is just a 90 degree elboe with a cap on it that "pops up" when the water runs down the pipe. The cap is a gravity device for closing. If they are maintained (means you have to keep up with it), they help by keeping the pipe closed to larger critters and only open when enough rain is flowing to float the cap.

Bic-since I am related to Kstate alumni would you do the install and maintain it for me? Hortin is not that far from Olathe. Thanks for the help.

[nurthys]

In my opinion, and this is based on our situation in AZ, running any system from an in-house stub is a big no-no. Typically you're looking at 3/4" inlet in to the house and maybe a 1/2" stub outside to a spigot or the like where you might tap a sprinkler main. Additionally, most homes here have a soft water system (very hard water) which adds sodium to the water. Maybe this is not the worst thing for the water, but I'd want the water to be as natural as possible. If no soft water system, if you ran the water through the house, it just seems like your putting a lot of water through pipes that are harder to access should the need arise in lets say 20 years; wearing them out with deposits also needlessly.

There would be no reason to run the water through the house rather than down the side of the house. Definitely go for the exterior main to your sprinkler system.

I was concerned about this company coming off the plumbing inside the home for two reasons. I did not want an adittional copper pipe running out of my house and I do not want to clean out my basement so they could have access to the pipes.

No water softener here we get our water from the clean Missouri river and we too have a 3/4" copper coming into the house.

[nurthys]

Attached are some pics of the house, pretty basic in my opinion but what do I know I am just a homeowner. I am having a fence installed this week that is why I have all of the flags in the yard.

[SprinklerGuy]

The regional differences account for the reasoning behind tapping the house...

As one who has installed hundreds of systems in both Arizona and Colorado...I can attest to this.....he will not be able to tap the water outside in Kansas if they install water mains there the way they do in Colorado.....6 feet deep.

Tapping the water main in the basement is an accepted standard....just have him tap prior to the regulator...although, if you have to ask for that from an experienced installer..perhaps it is time to find a different one!

[nurthys]

The regional differences account for the reasoning behind tapping the house...

As one who has installed hundreds of systems in both Arizona and Colorado...I can attest to this.....he will not be able to tap the water outside in Kansas if they install water mains there the way they do in Colorado.....6 feet deep.

Tapping the water main in the basement is an accepted standard....just have him tap prior to the regulator...although, if you have to ask for that from an experienced installer..perhaps it is time to find a different one!

The water meter is only about 31" deep, which I assume is at or below the frost line. Where the water line comes into the home is about 6' deep though. Two of the three installers would tap in at the meter and one wants to come off the line inside the home.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

Hey Nurthy, why don't you check out www.mprotator.com. I don't want to throw a wrench in your planning but if you have time consider this as an alternative to a traditional irrigation system with rotors and spray. I'm an old timer who changes slowly but I'm really warming up to these and your yard looks ideal.

[Kiril]

I agree with the softened water comment, never put softened water on your landscape. In some areas it may be worthwhile to run it through a carbon filter.

Nurthys, I have had very few problems with both I20 & PGP rotors that I have installed/maintain. They are both excellent rotors, and the only difference I expect you will notice is the cost ($400 diff. seems excessive to me). If someone attempts to sell you Orbit anything, that stuff is 100% crap.

With respect to design these are the primary things that I look at when zoning and designing:

1) Exposure (compass direction, slope gradient & aspect, buildings, sources of radiant heat, etc...)
2) Soil properties
3) Plant rooting depths (shallow-deep)
4) Plant water requirements (low-high)
5) Plant diversity (species, density, microclimate)

Ideally you want to know 1-4 when deciding on how many zones you will need.

I also recommend you look into native plants that will require little or no supplement water.

One last thing, if you don't have any drainage installed, this is the time to put it in.

[unit28]

your home is high enough not to add drains.
The front is graded down to the street.
The back is graded down to the field.
The sides have swells.

The two swels along both sides of the house carry the water away.

The only exception I see are along the fences.

ANd 8 zones? I can see that if they are good at water conservation.
Watering the beds seperate and boring under the sidewalks to water them with ss[ side strip] sprays at triangular spacing with es [end strip] sprays.

And 1 inch poly for laterals?
What's the water pressure?
And most definantly your installer will know where to put the tap.
Or where to draw the hole to punch through the basement.

And what's the warranty cover?

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

I agree with 28. when they put that fence in make sure it doesn' block the natural drainage on the side yard area. With all the rain you've had I would think you have a good idea how your yard drains. Never argue with water. If you have good natural drainage maintain it. Also make sure those downspouts don't dump in the beds. It doesn't look like you have enough dwnspt for you roof area but most houses don't.

[bicmudpuppy]

Bic-since I am related to Kstate alumni would you do the install and maintain it for me? Hortin is not that far from Olathe. Thanks for the help.

If I wasn't working every daylight hour available (and going through an 18V bat in the flashlight each day) I might consider it. I am technically "out" of the res/com buis for right now. Now, if you wanted to make this a winter project...........we might work something out.

Feel free to drop me a private note @ gcsamudpuppy@rainbowtel.net

[PurpHaze]

I have had very few problems with both I20 & PGP rotors that I have installed/maintain. They are both excellent rotors...

I concur. I had PGPs in my back yard for almost 14 years and never had one go bad. I switched to PGM/PGJs (OK under controlled situations but not the greatest) first and finally MP-Rotators because I wanted to test them out at my house before installing them at school sites. They work great also and depending on actual layout you can cut the total number of zones due to the lower GPM. However, you'd have to run them longer due to their slower precipitation rate.

[Kiril]

With respect to drainage, I was referring primarily to dealing with downspout water. Always a good idea to remove water a good distance away from your foundation.

The dry swales on the sides of the house look like they could turn into a virtual swamp given both houses are dumping water into them, especially if they were not designed properly.

Here's a good overview of dry swales if your interested.

http://www.metrocouncil.org/environment/Watershed/BMP/CH3_STDetDrySwale.pdf

I am impressed with what the MP Rotator offers, only thing I would like to see is a full pattern adjustment in one nozzle instead of 4.

[PurpHaze]

The dry swales on the sides of the house look like they could turn into a virtual swamp given both houses are dumping water into them, especially if they were not designed properly.

Swales can get quite messy. Here's a couple of pics of a swale that a county complex (on the left) and our district's adult school (on the right) share. Things get so bad from the county's irrigation that we end up having to turn our zone off. The two districts are contemplating putting in an actual drain to combat this problem but I'm not holding my breath. :)

[PurpHaze]

I am impressed with what the MP Rotator offers, only thing I would like to see is a full pattern adjustment in one nozzle instead of 4.

Perhaps the engineering will allow for this... perhaps not. Hunter takes full control of MP-Rotators in September so one will just have to wait and see what is on the horizon.

[Kiril]

Perhaps the engineering will allow for this... perhaps not.

Yea, I suspect the reason probably is engineering given the on the fly PR adjustments. One can only hope...

That pic is a good example of an improperly designed dry swale. Perhaps a couple of deep french drains might solve the problem.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

Turn the MP rotator into another lousy van nozzle so landscape contractors can have another do it all nozzle. let's hope not.

[Kiril]

I don't want another lousy van, I want a great van that makes all the other vans look like toys. :)

In any event, their nozzles (excluding the 360) are vans, or perhaps better named lvans.

[unit28]

With respect to drainage, I was referring primarily to dealing with downspout water. Always a good idea to remove water a good distance away from your foundation.

The dry swales on the sides of the house look like they could turn into a virtual swamp given both houses are dumping water into them, especially if they were not designed properly.



For the most part I think if you look at the photos.....
The grade draws away from the house dramatically.
The front goes to the street and the back goes to the field.

The down spouts are not really an issue for drainage, as the water will flow away from the house regardless.
Is there a drainage expert here to confirm this?
why yes I believe I did....LOL

I guarantee your issue will be the fences.

And purps phototoes do not show a good swale like you have

[PurpHaze]

And purps phototoes do not show a good swale like you have

Very true... but the swale use to look/work better 20 years ago. Water entering this swale use to carry almost 100' to the back, away from the buildings. Swales, like French drains, are dynamic with soil particles flowing into them and then changing their level or clogging things up.

[Kiril]

Swales, like French drains, are dynamic with soil particles flowing into them and then changing their level or clogging things up.

Yes, it would at best be a temporary solution. Perhaps that coupled with shared watering responsibility between the two buildings, or perhaps one system to water it all, or even better you take over running their irrigation schedules. In it's current state it is a health hazard and I am frankly surprised the county hasn't done something about it.

The down spouts are not really an issue for drainage, as the water will flow away from the house regardless.

This is true assuming that it does not infiltrate into the soil before it has a chance to drain away from the house. I agree the fences will be an issue, especially if the swales were constructed as a dry swales.

[unit28]

Very true... but the swale use to look/work better 20 years ago. Water entering this swale use to carry almost 100' to the back, away from the buildings. Swales, like French drains, are dynamic with soil particles flowing into them and then changing their level or clogging things up.

won't happen, swales are no where near the problem of french drains.
And for that to happen[clogged swale?] it would heve to be some major erosion around the foundations of the houses....lol
I mean seriously look at the photos from his home. The grade at the bottom of the swales are at the very least 3-4' below the house.


I worked on a 5000 acre ranch in wyoming.
The hole place was irrigated by flooding fields from an upstream creek.

There were ditches and swales constructed back in the 1800's that never clogged. Some of those swales were only 3" below grade.
They were operated by a flood gate over 5 miles away, then at the ranch there were other gates plus, a few smaller areas just used a rock to control some of the swale areas.


I also lived in 2 homes in Euless TX.

One was on a down hill slope to the house. I put a french drain in back in the 90's{....lol} dirt filled the basins up but didn't stop the water flowing through the pipe[graveled in bottom then pipe with sock then gravel to fill]
The other house I incoporated a swale after it flooded in 95[huge storm]
it never cloged.

Looks to me like that photato you posted just never had a swale.
The whole place is to level.

[PurpHaze]

Yes, it would at best be a temporary solution. Perhaps that coupled with shared watering responsibility between the two buildings, or perhaps one system to water it all, or even better you take over running their irrigation schedules. In it's current state it is a health hazard and I am frankly surprised the county hasn't done something about it.

We originally had the responsibility for both systems and never had this problem as we were able to balance things out so water wasn't accumulating too much. Two years ago the county building (which is for mentally handicapped adults) was totally reconstructed and had their entire irrigation system renovated also. They then took over the responsibility for their own grounds and it's been a problem ever since.

Looks to me like that photato you posted just never had a swale. The whole place is to level.

The pictures are actually taken from the top end of the swale. It gets deeper towards the back of the property and originally flowed everything that way. One of the primary reasons this swale started "collapsing" was due to vehicle traffic. Seemed that every maintenance vehicle drove through this area to reach the back of the two sites. Couple this with wet soil and the original grade deteriorated fairly quickly.

[PurpHaze]

Just a few pics of the county's system problems. :)

[Kiril]

That is just sad. Nothing gets my panties in a bunch more than water waste at that scale.

[unit28]

maybe run an areater on the cement?
should help to soak up soma that over irrigated concrete

[DanaMac]

maybe run an areater on the cement?
should help to soak up soma that over irrigated concrete

Good thinking. Maybe a reverse drip system in the concrete where it takes it in one drip at a time. I like it. Your onto a new idea there.

I don't trust architects and engineers that haven't worked out in the field getting their hands dirty. they always screw it up.

[Kiril]

Good thinking. Maybe a reverse drip system in the concrete where it takes it in one drip at a time. I like it. Your onto a new idea there.

Or on a more serious note, use permeable concrete.

http://www.concretenetwork.com/pervious/

[PurpHaze]

The round concrete patio in the pics has been there for 15+ years. The fence and mow strip were added during the reconstruction to keep the "kids" (even though they're technically adults) from running amok. It just amazed me that all this was done without cutting the turf lip down on the one side or providing an escape route through the concrete mow strip in other areas. But hey... I've seen all types of screwy things installed/constructed in the past and guess who gets to go in and straighten things out in the end? Grounds and maintenance guys.

[PurpHaze]

Speaking of round patios... we have another site where a round patio was built out the back of the kindergarten building when the school was constructed about 14 years ago. Patio was built exactly according to the architect's plans but it dropped off steep enough that it created a holding basin of sorts where it met the turf. Rain and irrigation water would turn the area into a giant swamp. We had to go in and install a drainage system (clay pipe no less because it was leftover at the maintenance yard) to carry the water approximately 200' to a sump area which had to go in because the school was built before storm drains were installed/extended in this area of the city. It's been working like a charm ever since although a section of it that runs through a sand box (added later) has been replaced after it was crunched up by our big rototiller. :)