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View Full Version : why do we have to buy bigger machines when....


Grn Mtn
06-30-2007, 10:48 PM
tons of threads about what machine to buy and a common factor is how heavy the skids are so the biggest machine is needed or us to break pallets apart.

Why can't we just get together and ask the paver companies to limit pallet weights to 1500 pounds. Even a Dingo can drag that weight around the yard. So we end up paying $30 more for a pallet so what, pass that cost on to the customer but save money by not needing a bigger machine.

just a thought.

orionkf
06-30-2007, 10:55 PM
I would be happy if they would make it so each strap can be speared individually, the way that I see most clay building bricks.

cgland
06-30-2007, 11:02 PM
It would also take you 8 hrs to move a load of stone around. Skid steers are way more versatile than just picking up pallets of pavers. Besides, asking paver manufacturers to limit skid weight would be like asking george Bush to pull out of Iraq........It'll never happen.

Chris

waltero
06-30-2007, 11:40 PM
I have to say that 1500 lbs is a little on the light side. It is tough to say what limit that each pallet should weigh. I know most machines aren't rated much above 3000 lbs and some pallets go to 4500 lbs or more. I know alot of machines will handle this much but not safely, accidents do happen.

It isn't that bad of an idea to do, it could just be that the pallets can be stacked in two halves, with a pallet in the middle to seperate the two. I don't see it happening, but not a bad idea...

I actually just moved up to a larger machine and I have to say that I like having more power for all aspects of hardscaping. It does save me time and I have less fustration trying to get certain jobs done. I have a Kubota that after having the two machines seems just a little too weak for this kind of work. I have some trouble even when a pallet may be halfway broken down.

I have never used a smaller machine on a jobsite like a dingo or bobcat MT55, but to me it would seem a little small to be doing this kind of work. It would be alright to start with but I really think that anyone that really wants to be serious about hardscaping needs to move up into a larger machine just to stay competitive. Time is money and it is so true in this business.

ChampionLS
07-01-2007, 01:00 AM
I would be happy if they would make it so each strap can be speared individually, the way that I see most clay building bricks.

You can pick up seperate bands of Pavingstones with Pallet Forks. No big deal there....

ChampionLS
07-01-2007, 01:04 AM
Why can't we just get together and ask the paver companies to limit pallet weights to 1500 pounds. Even a Dingo can drag that weight around the yard. So we end up paying $30 more for a pallet so what, pass that cost on to the customer but save money by not needing a bigger machine.

just a thought.

That'll never happen. It's all about logistics. Take a tour of a paver manufacturer. Everything is automated. It wouldn't pay to make light loads. Also with trucking- most Semi trucks can carry 80,000 lbs. Light pallets of less material= loss in shipping, longer delays to get materials places and wasted delivery time and charges.

If I need to move a pallet that my machine can't carry, we off load several rows onto a spare pallet- usually in 5 minutes.

gammon landscaping
07-01-2007, 07:20 AM
well it wouldn't hurt the loads if you did halr pallets you could just go two runs high on the truck, by the way when the haul a load of pavers or block they have a lot of real estate in the truck wasted

paponte
07-02-2007, 06:20 AM
Seems to me that your trying to justify your dingo for something it's not supposed to be. I see a dingo as a very helpful tool for working in small tight places. If there is access for a large machine, and I use a dingo all I am doing is costing myself money at that point. It's almost like trying to cut 5 acres with a 36" machine. Why do it?

I agree and have seen the difference a larger machine makes on a job, and would not change utilizing one. It makes a world of difference on a job.

Grn Mtn
07-02-2007, 01:51 PM
The trucking comment and packaging comments don't make sense, the semi's can just double stack and they can just tell the computer to only put half of what they put on now. I'm really glad that those of you who have the bigger machines are happy with your purchase. But I rented a large skidder from United Rental and it still couldn't handle the 3400 pound Techo pallets. I actually moved 16 ton of crusher faster with the dingo than the skidder because I was able to take the short path and stay on level ground, and I didn't have to repair the ground at the pile- the skidsteer that just fit dug deep into the ground because of the zero turning. Granted not all job sites are as confined as mine was but I think reducing the pallets weight in half would benifit many.

Bill S
07-02-2007, 04:59 PM
How about this, make yourself a small pallet that fits your dingo then get yourself some extra help and restack from the big pallets to your little pallet. This will allow for you to get away doing big boys work with your little toys.

Do jobs that you have equipment for (or are able to rent equipment for). If you can't handle the job, do something you can. It will be much more profitable to you in the long run.

Smaller isn't always a bad thing.

paponte
07-02-2007, 06:57 PM
Roald, why not just take a band at a time on a pallet? We always take extra pallets to a job because depending on the suplier they sometines don't always come on pallets. Either that or just get a band grabber attachment. I have a 773 bobcat and a 262 Cat. The 773 has it's limits and is pretty much used for landscae installs rather than hardscaping. The 262 can pretty much lift anything I throw at it from full pallets, mafia block, boulders etc. I have yet to tip that machine. One thing I notice between the bobcat and the Cat, is that a Cat just will not lift somehting, while the bobcat will lift it but the back wheels will come off the ground.

lawnMaster5000
07-03-2007, 11:14 PM
I too have often wondered why they dont limit pallets to something that most equipment can pick up.

limiting a pallet to 2k-2500# doesn't seem like too much to ask. if you own equipment that can carry more than that then just set two pallets on top of each other and you have what you started with.

I dont do a lot of hardscaping but I have done some and watched other people unload rows off pallets just to move them. Seems stupid.

For those of you interested, try asking your distributer and see what they say.

Mike33
07-03-2007, 11:36 PM
QUOTE=cgland;1882112]It would also take you 8 hrs to move a load of stone around. Skid steers are way more versatile than just picking up pallets of pavers. Besides, asking paver manufacturers to limit skid weight would be like asking george Bush to pull out of Iraq........It'll never happen.

Chris[/QUOTE]
Thats funny, :clapping:
Mike

Grn Mtn
07-04-2007, 12:29 PM
How about this, make yourself a small pallet that fits your dingo then get yourself some extra help and restack from the big pallets to your little pallet. This will allow for you to get away doing big boys work with your little toys.

Do jobs that you have equipment for (or are able to rent equipment for). If you can't handle the job, do something you can. It will be much more profitable to you in the long run.

Smaller isn't always a bad thing.


nice childish comment bill, maybe if you learned how to read you would have seen that smaller was better and the bigger didn't work out very well.

Bill S
07-04-2007, 12:58 PM
OK, I reread your post, and still have the same feeling...

waltero
07-04-2007, 01:05 PM
I like comments like this also, the size of your machine has no impact on the quality of your work. Sometimes it is best to use a smaller machine because of site conditions.

I have to say that I know alot of people who do hardscaping that don't have the proper sized equipment. These pallets can get heavy and I don't know anyone that has a machine that is rated to lift between 4 and 5 thousand pounds. I know that everyone is in a different situation and the sites that they have to work with are also different. I like in a rural area where I have lots of room to work, but there are areas where things can get real tight. I don't deal with fences and gates but I know other that have to. All the more reason to have a smaller machine.


Can anyone here honestly say that they never had to pick up a pallet of material that was way over the rated capacity of the machine they were using? In a perfect world we would all start off with every piece of equipment that we needed to get the job completed but this isn't a perfect world. Most people start out with very little and build a business whatever way that they can. They aquire larger equipment along the way and are able to take on larger jobs, but it doesn't mean that they can't do larger jobs with the equipment that they already have. It just means that it will take longer to complete the task with a smaller machine then with a larger machine in most situations. I personally have been there and I assume that most have unless you have come from a situation where you have access to all of the tools from another business.

Judging from your post you must have been a fortunate one that got all the right tools and equipment before you even started to work. Maybe your Mommy and Daddy help you get started, but if this isn't the case then I would guess that at some point in your business that you were stuck with a smaller piece of equipment then you would have liked. If not, Kudos to you for always having the right equipment at hand at all times. Maybe you could bless us with your knowledge on how you did this so that all the rest of us can follow in you footsteps.


Walter




How about this, make yourself a small pallet that fits your dingo then get yourself some extra help and restack from the big pallets to your little pallet. This will allow for you to get away doing big boys work with your little toys.

Do jobs that you have equipment for (or are able to rent equipment for). If you can't handle the job, do something you can. It will be much more profitable to you in the long run.

Smaller isn't always a bad thing.

DUSTYCEDAR
07-04-2007, 01:43 PM
i can make due with my loader and if i have the space i can have the spider drop the load wherever i want it so whats the problem?
if not i break the pallet down some and i have seen a trend with some companies in the area where they have more men on the job then machines and they r fast real fast dig wheel and move in the stone and block all by hand now for the most part they r doing front walks and such so no huge digging is done but they sure can knock out a job and dont tear up the lawns and make a huge mess.
i like machines vs men but sometimes i see where they have a nich market and make a good buck off of it.

Bill S
07-04-2007, 02:26 PM
So let me get this straight... you are compromising the safety of yourself and your crew by using a machine rated too small for the job at hand?

You do not need to own every piece of equipment under the sun! Delivery companies have spiders to place your block. Rental companies have large pieces of equipment in order for you to unload block when there is no spider available.

When I started off I had an old beat up p/u truck with a mower in the back! When I got ready to go to the bigger jobs I made due with what I had, man power and undersized machines! I broke down pallets using man power and moved pallets that didn't weigh as much! Did it take a little longer? Of course! Was it a whole lot safer? Absolutely!

My posting is sincere. Either get the proper equipment to do the job or figure out how to make the job smaller so that your equipment can properly handle the job.

waltero
07-04-2007, 02:48 PM
What piece of equipment do you use when you have a pallet of wall block that is 4500lbs? What do you get from the rental company that is rated for this much? What do you have that can handle this much? I would like to know what this large piece of equipment is that you speak of?

I think I can speak for many in here that they exceed the rated capacity of the equipment that they use. I would assume that if you had a skid that was rated for 3000lbs and a pallet was 3700 lbs, that you would remove the extra 700 lbs before you moved the pallet?

This is why his aguement of making the pallets a little lighter is valid. There are very few that can actually say that they have a piece of equipment that can handle this much weight safetly within the equipments rated capacity. Bobcat just came out with the S330 that has an operating capacity of 3300 lbs, tipping twice that. This is the largest skid that they make and it doesn't even handle this weight within the operating specs.

Even in your post you stated that you had to break pallets down to do the job, that your equipment was too small for the job at hand. My problem with your post is that you act like you are some Hardscaping God and if someone doesn't have the right tools for the job that they should stick to smaller jobs. Let me know what it is, Did you do jobs with smaller equipment and may have benefited from smaller pallets or did you pass on these jobs until you got the larger equipment that you speak of that can handle these weights.


So let me get this straight... you are compromising the safety of yourself and your crew by using a machine rated too small for the job at hand?

You do not need to own every piece of equipment under the sun! Delivery companies have spiders to place your block. Rental companies have large pieces of equipment in order for you to unload block when there is no spider available.

When I started off I had an old beat up p/u truck with a mower in the back! When I got ready to go to the bigger jobs I made due with what I had, man power and undersized machines! I broke down pallets using man power and moved pallets that didn't weigh as much! Did it take a little longer? Of course! Was it a whole lot safer? Absolutely!

My posting is sincere. Either get the proper equipment to do the job or figure out how to make the job smaller so that your equipment can properly handle the job.