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Pro-Scapes
07-04-2007, 01:10 PM
Has anyone used the hunza pathlite recessed fixture or the SPJ one ? I have a client who wishes to have the paths lit but does not want to see pathlights. The theme for the home will be soft and understated.

If possible include your thoughts and possibly a picture. What was your experience with them and was the client happy ?

This is a very high end custom home and it deserves the best. Unfortunatly there will be no mature trees in this area to moonlight from.

Pro-Scapes
07-04-2007, 06:24 PM
this is the fixture i am speaking of. Certainly not my first choice to light a path but miles ahead of a paver light that shines up in your face or little dots lining the walkway. If I cant feesibly do these then we will probably either look into pop up lights or leave alone and pray for enough ambient light off the home.

NightScenes
07-04-2007, 06:28 PM
I have seen these fixtures up close Billy and they are tanks, as like all of the Hunza line.

Pro-Scapes
07-04-2007, 06:35 PM
I have seen these fixtures up close Billy and they are tanks, as like all of the Hunza line.

thanks... im more concerned with how the finished project will look with 3 of these along that curved flag walkway we spoke about in thoes plans paul. I dont question hunza quality. Scared to ask the guys to leave me holes in the flag for em but then have em turn out crappy. Would be sweet if there was a small wall going in there... could even use something like a rope light or integrals under a lip if there was.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
07-05-2007, 02:26 AM
Billy

I would think the Hunza Pathlight would be a maintenace disaster when installed flush to the ground (path) as debris, bugs, etc would surround the lenses.

An alternative (less expensive, but probably the same maintenance problems) would be the Nightscaping INTEGRAliter (GD-0402-BR)

The client might just have to give in to some good quality pathlights or be prepared to clean their Hunza's every few days.

Good Luck

Pro-Scapes
07-05-2007, 09:10 AM
well that cans that idea then james thank you for that input. I saw on thier site where they had them installed in a deck flush mounted. I never really cared for this type of fixture..

Anyone got infor or experience with the pop up pathlights ?

Pro-Scapes
07-05-2007, 01:33 PM
I just got the quote on these. I think this client will be looking at close to 4 figures installed... EACH :eek: :eek: :eek: Dunno about that one. Will see what they say tho.

Chris J
07-05-2007, 02:08 PM
I have installed some of these hunza path lights, and didn't like them too much. You don't get much light output unless the surface is a very light color (white), and trash getting under the shroud is a problem. It terms of their cost, I think you may find a better choice elsewhere.

SamIV
07-05-2007, 02:14 PM
Hey Billy,

Go to SOLD and borrow one of their SBJ13-300 fixtures. This was the fixtue that Chuck brought in for one of the Gulfport jobs that he and the owner specified and I changed. I brought all of them back so there should be some still there. Looks like a well light, but has a very heavy brass cover and only radiates light in 3 areas. Never dissasembled the fixture, but it seems very robust. I never installed one to see how it performs though. I believe they came with a 35 watt MR16 of who knows what manufacturer.

Burt

Eden Lights
07-05-2007, 02:36 PM
Has anyone used the hunza pathlite recessed fixture or the SPJ one ? I have a client who wishes to have the paths lit but does not want to see pathlights. The theme for the home will be soft and understated.

If possible include your thoughts and possibly a picture. What was your experience with them and was the client happy ?

This is a very high end custom home and it deserves the best. Unfortunately there will be no mature trees in this area to moonlight from.

Many times a request for soft and understated really should be discussed more in depth so everyone gets a better understanding of what causes a design and install to not be soft and understated. While excessive use of any pathlight will cause a design to get distracting and take away from the natural elements that you are trying to highlight, but with the proper selection of a fully shielded pathlight and then the use of them in only required locations: at steps, major direction changes, at the start of a path, low level seasonal annuals, and or as a visual destination, then pathlights are very soft and understating. While the Hunza line is excellent, any bollard or unshielded marker style path light can be very distracting and overstated and in my opinion have limited use in a residential setting. Example, the MR16 style downlight on a riser is used quite abit in my area as a path light, but in my opinion while they do have a very clean understated look during the day at night they become distracting and overstated, you can use lenses, louvers, screens, and etc. but they still cause glare and hotspots that the eye is drawn to causing you to loose enjoyment of the total visual composition. I would recommend that you look at some smaller head pathlights on 12" risers, FX has a bunch and then work with the landscaper to soften the areas with some plantings around the pathlights.

Pro-Scapes
07-05-2007, 03:57 PM
thnks for everyones replies. I have not shown her the idea yet and I may just keep it under wraps... the last thing i want is the client to be disapointed in my recomendations. Will check out the shorty FX lights... As of now I will be recomending a short footwall along this particular walkway which curves and will be near a step. Will either seek to mount traditional step lights or a rope light under the lip but this will all depend on further meeting with the client. As an interior designer she is opinionated and I respect the fact this is her home and she is the one that needs to live with the end result.


pop up pathlights are still to be researched.

ChampionLS
07-07-2007, 04:47 AM
I just got the quote on these. I think this client will be looking at close to 4 figures installed... EACH :eek: :eek: :eek: Dunno about that one. Will see what they say tho.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Sorry to brag, but I think I will stick my two cents in. Regardless of what you feel the quality of Evening Star is, our brand retails for less than $30 per fixture, offers 15,000 hours of reliable performance in 10 designer colors, can be installed into paving stones of varying thickness AND decking, offers a IP57 watertight enclosure, is cULus listed and can be installed/removed with a simple tool that you can sell to your client. But that's ok. Keep sourcing lights that cost as much as a car payment. :dizzy:

Your right Bill, ROPE LIGHTS are far more sexy of an alternative. Seems like your the only one not seeing the light :cool2:

ChampionLS
07-07-2007, 04:57 AM
Heres a contractor submitted photo to our website from Northern NJ of a deck installation.

www.eveningstarlighting.com

Pro-Scapes
07-07-2007, 11:25 AM
Anthony with all respect... a small plastic light is by no means specification grade for a project of this caliber.

You do not understand the usage of rope light in an application like this. There would be a dado cut under the lip of the stairs or wall lip with the rope light hidden out of sight. I have seen many world class lighting designers do this. I have yet to see them with plastic runway lights.

The hunza projects a light out and has a shell on it to keep it from glaring at people. Its built like a tank and you could park a car (heck a semi truck) on it.

Sorry you really struck a nerve on this one. I could see me going to this multi million dollar home and telling this lady we neeed to order these plastic lights because they are so much cheaper.:laugh: :laugh:

Pro-Scapes
07-07-2007, 11:52 AM
Then again if you wish to bag on rope lights look at Matts usage of them here http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=129434&page=14 a few posts down. Nice even light... well defined.. They DO have thier time and place. and if they are hidden from direct view can be from what it seems a great tool.

ChampionLS
07-07-2007, 12:47 PM
Billy,

I'm just twisting your arm. I'm sure your work is excellent in quality and detail. I've seen the Hunza lights. Actually, we had to work around their patent to design ours and get it patented. There are a lot of lights you see in the market place that have their design by limitations due to similarities of other products. The rope light idea in a cavity sounds interesting. Reminds me of fluorescent lighting you see in the ceiling behind crown molding. There are weatherproof white LED modules that you can piggy back to achieve similar lighting results. They are used for sign lighting. I have some info from Lightfair on them.

Where exactly are you planning to use these lights in your design? On a decking surface or a paved surface? I think we sent you a decking sample. You should show it to your client and let them decide. I'm curious what the end user thinks, even if you never use ours.

Pro-Scapes
07-07-2007, 02:57 PM
They will be recessed into flag stone to highlight a pathway where the client does not want to see path lights and there is no options for moonlighting.

For some reason I cant imagine where your light closely resembles the hunza at all :laugh: 2 different worlds there. There is a Fixture from SPJ that is solid built and looks VERY close to the hunza. I would think they would of had a patent problem LONG before evening lights.

I got snappy because everytime one of us asks about lighting a path or deck or something you pop in pushing your wares then you hand out false information. Nothing against you personally. Your style of light is just not something I can justify using with the caliber of lighting I am striving to provide.

ChampionLS
07-08-2007, 04:45 AM
We have contractors on Long Island, NY that have installed lighting into Bluestone, Flagstone, Granite and Marble. I know one of these jobs was indoors in a wine cellar. I will post some photos when I can acquire them. The end result is:- you are selling your customer a lighting effect. It doesn't take a $400 light to offer that. If you bought a Tiffany lamp, do you think theres a $100 Tiffany light bulb illuminating it?

The patent that covers our paver/deck light is for the intended purpose of recessed pathway lighting. Hunza's design is actually very similar, although they use a prism optic to project the light horizontally.

Here is a photo showing a recessed installation along the upper pool patio. The photo is a little over exposed, so the lighting effect is less in real time.

Pro-Scapes
07-08-2007, 08:50 AM
no way are thoes 4w bulbs on that wall recessed in.. That is much more than 4 w. Sorry but I gotta call BS on that and I still dont see how our light is similar to the hunza

Chris J
07-08-2007, 02:07 PM
Unless the fixtures I installed from Hunza were missing parts, there were no prism optics to project the light. The MR16 lamp simply bounces off the underside of the canopy and then out of the side cut-outs. There is not even a reflector. Just raw, unpolished brass.
As far as the picture above goes, I agree with Billy. Overexposure? I don't think so. Photo enhancement would be a better choice of words if these are, in fact, your 4w fixtures.

Pro-Scapes
07-08-2007, 02:45 PM
actually... if you enlarge the picture or just look closly you will see clearly there is a fixture of some sort there... Shame on evning lights for trying to claim this is their stuff. It might be so that this is Anthonys hard scape but this is in no way possible that thoes lights along that wall are the 4 w plastic lights.:nono: :nono:

Chris... do you have a photo of the hunza lights you installed ? I am trying to get a better idea on how these will look.

Chris J
07-09-2007, 08:05 PM
This is the link to the picture of the fixture I used. It is number #3 with the 3-way light output. If your asking if I have a photo of the actual job with the fixture in action, I'm sorry but I don't. Remember, all of my photos are taken by someone else so I don't have as many as some of you guys. I really need to learn how to use a camera.... http://www.hunza.co.nz/album/images/PL_jpg.jpg

Pro-Scapes
07-09-2007, 11:09 PM
thanks Chris... its up to the client now if they like the light or not. I wont decide for them all I can do is show them what I can realistically offer for a hard to light place.

Eden Lights
07-10-2007, 01:01 AM
I have already given my opinion about these marker style lights, but I do have a request if you try them out. Let us know what you think about them (the effect) and maybe post some pics of the install.

Pro-Scapes
07-10-2007, 09:05 AM
will do... If they do decide to do these paths then it will most likley just be the cans fow now mounted in the paths... I got a feeling they ate alot of the budget up and they had a ton of expensive delays on this project... the home is faced in limestone and it turned out a year after they faced the home there was mold in the stone.. The whole house had to be defaced.

He didnt say I had to wait on the lighting but he just told me last night that it maybe a year before they landscape. Would definatly be better to wait to light the home til after irrigation and drainage is in.

ChampionLS
07-11-2007, 04:01 AM
That photo was an example of the lighting effect commonly used with our products along a natural rock wall. That was not our lights, and we do not take credit for the photo.

for printing purposes and enhancement, most photos are brightened or the gamma level is increased. 4 watts is plenty of light to provide an accent. We've experimented with 7 watt bulbs at the time of engineering, and it's just too bright. We use GE bulbs at 14volts. Our system is designed to operate at 12 volts, thus offering 15,000 hours. You could up the voltage and make the lights brighter, but the lamp life drops to about half.

As far as the Hunza lights go, I have many patent drawings for references we cited in ours. I'm pretty sure the newest Hunza lights have a optic that reflects the light outwards. I'll post a drawing here when I get a moment.

-Anthony

ChampionLS
07-11-2007, 04:33 AM
Here is a similar light that may be of interest. Its made my Farlight LLC.

http://www.farlight.com/Pages/Omni/SEMI-FLUSH.htm#

This is the fixture I was talking about with the prism.

Pro-Scapes
07-11-2007, 10:00 AM
that plastic puck definatly resembles your light more and I could see your patent issues with that but definatly not the hunze. Even tho you did not outright claim that was your lights you were speaking about recessing your lights and then post that photo. That leaves the reader to assume that these are your lights recessed.

ChampionLS
07-11-2007, 11:13 PM
Here Billy Bob...
What do you think of these?
These are our 4 watt Lamp Modules, recessed in a 6x6 pavingstone, and used in front of a natural rock wall. The exposure time was about 20 seconds, which over exposed the shot and gives the appearance of 100 watt Halogens. The actual effect is soft and subtle. Nevertheless, it's good to experiment and see what works. :drinkup:

Shout out:

Hey Noel...
Lets see some of those new paver lights... haven't seen or heard a peep yet.
Billy, I think you scared him away. :dizzy:

ChampionLS
07-13-2007, 02:58 AM
Heres a similar recessed light by Philips. It's called the Aurelle Deck Light. Apparently Philips Lighting has no doubts with accent lighting. :cool2:

Pro-Scapes
07-13-2007, 09:14 AM
looks like a helicopter landing pad. Nothing I would do.

carcrz
07-13-2007, 09:29 AM
I bet nobody ever falls off the side of that deck! Is that deck even to code w/ no rails?

Chris J
07-13-2007, 06:54 PM
Fall off? If they dare to get close to the edge they will be blind! Of course they will fall off without a rail.
This is just silly and it looks ridiculous. Just because someone else does it doesn't mean that it should be done.

Pro-Scapes
07-13-2007, 11:54 PM
Fall off? If they dare to get close to the edge they will be blind! Of course they will fall off without a rail.
This is just silly and it looks ridiculous. Just because someone else does it doesn't mean that it should be done.

no no rememeber guys... lighting like this is ok... they are only 4w each. :laugh: :laugh: The best part about this is Mr Anthony will be a sport about this and educate us on the virtues of using a lamp "modual" and selling the homeowner the removal tool.

ChampionLS
07-15-2007, 12:30 AM
Hahaha....

Actually, I'm not crazy about that deck shot. Thats a really crappy deck!. Wheres the railing?? The lights should be shining up on the house to provide some wall washing. If you look closely, it's all digital editing. The lights are drawn in on the photo. At least ours are real!

Oh, and Billy...

I have some good pictures for you! I have to take them off my digital camera.

I want to show you how well Intermatic's Malibu line of pierce connectors held up on a job since 1999.

Pro-Scapes
07-16-2007, 09:14 AM
Hahaha....



Oh, and Billy...

I have some good pictures for you! I have to take them off my digital camera.

I want to show you how well Intermatic's Malibu line of pierce connectors held up on a job since 1999.

Not interested in piece points thanks! Have a good week everyone