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carcrz
07-05-2007, 12:48 PM
I just bought a new house & it has a flagpole. I want to light the flag so I don't need to take it down at night. You think I should go ahead & light everything now or is there a way to use quality stuff to do just the pole? Here's some pics:

carcrz
07-05-2007, 12:50 PM
Some more pics of the rest of the house.

Pro-Scapes
07-05-2007, 03:09 PM
http://www.lawnsite.com/search.php?searchid=1934615 is a link to some previous discussions on this topic.

Yours however will call for a bit different approach due to the proximity of the lightly colored home. Are you ready to light the entire home now ? This is going to affect how you would go about it.

I would recommend since you plan to do this yourself and only you can say how you want it done is to pick up at least 3 lights and some 20 and 35w bulbs. Some Kichler bullets would blend well here.

You should be able to run the 3 bullets in a semi triangluar form to cover that whole flag. even if you used a 35 on the frontside and then 2 lights at 20w on the rear lighting the home and flag at the same time. ... Drop a hub in around that bed then you can easily add pathlighting at a later date.

If your budget only allows you to light the flag now do your best to install an oversized trans so you can light the rest of the home later. Consider tying in thoes lantern lights on the garage into your low voltage switching system via upb or x10 and make them dimmable..... if it were my home i would also yank thoes lights down and install up and down scones to eliminate the glare.

Hope this helps some.

I been stuck inside all week due to weather. Jobsites are like soup and waiting for some hardscapes to go in.

David Gretzmier
07-05-2007, 08:51 PM
pro-scapes is on the money- find yourself a local low voltage lighting distributor, they usually are listed under irrigation suppliers. Look at their trasnformers and buy a 300, or a 600 watt if you plan to light your front and back of home in the future. They'll also probably have some 12 guage LV wire, although probably a 500 or 1000 ft spool, more than you need for just your flag. Stay away from malibu at home depot and lowes, , those fixtures and transformers will die quickly. but you may find and use their 12 guage LV wire, it comes in smaller lengths.

buying the lights and trans locally allows you warranty help if you have problems.

I like ushio mr-16 bulbs, but the ones at your distributor should be ok, for the flag you probably want an exn, or extra narrow spot, 20 or 35 watt. a 12 degree mr-16 is similar.

Chris J
07-05-2007, 09:28 PM
Don't want to ruffle any feathers here, but why would do you guys think it is necessary to light this flag from multiple angles? There is only one point of view from the street, so one 35w FMW placed in front should work just fine. By the way, an EXN is a 50w flood. Don't know if that was a mis-print or not.

carcrz
07-05-2007, 10:27 PM
I have read a ton of info in the lighting & irrigation sections lately, it's just so much to take in sometimes it helps to ask in my own words. Don't worry, no Home Depot for me. I have learned that from a lot of reading on here and personal experience. It'd be like me buying chemicals at the hardware store. You get what you pay for. I'm sure there are quite a few suppliers around here, I just need to find them. I'm guessing the same companies that do the Holiday Lighting will have what I need? There's probably a dozen suppliers that I can think of for that.

Pro-Scapes
07-05-2007, 11:06 PM
Don't want to ruffle any feathers here, but why would do you guys think it is necessary to light this flag from multiple angles? There is only one point of view from the street, so one 35w FMW placed in front should work just fine. By the way, an EXN is a 50w flood. Don't know if that was a mis-print or not.

well you can look at it this way... the flag is NOT stationary and will blow this way or that way depending on the wind and since he had mentioned lighting the home possibly and I was giving my suggestion based on that.

Chris is right tho... a single FMW 35w 36 degree would cetainly dust that flag but there will be shadows on it depending on what way its blowing.

Sorry for wanting to ensure the symbol of my country and freedom are well lit. I still feel a minimum of 2 lights would be better but Chris does have more experience. THis is where your own personal taste will come in and you should experiment.

David Gretzmier
07-06-2007, 12:34 AM
most flags seem to be very highly lit. I think of soft light on plants, brighter light on the flag- It may be an opinion thing. I'm open to being wrong on that. as I was wrong on the exn spot- my mistake. good catch.

Chris J
07-06-2007, 07:54 AM
I don't think either of these options would be a "wrong" choice. It is just opinion and personal taste. I was just curious about others personal point of view.
My personal feeling about lighting anything is to incorporate a certain amount of shadows. I feel it gives the object more character and appeal, even flags. Whatever option you choose, you can't go wrong as long as you have the proper voltage and wattage. Good luck.

extlights
07-06-2007, 09:20 AM
Here's my take. It all depends on what you are going to do. If you light just the flag pole now, you could do maybe 2 bullets. However because the flag pole is so close to the home you will most likely get a little light and shadows from the flag and pole on the second story of your home.
You could do one well light and angle it more upwards and try to eliminate this problem.

Secondly, if you are going to light your home at the same time, I'd definately use just one 35W flood on the flag and keep it soft. Because of the placement of that flag, you wouldn't want the flag so bright that it would take away from your home. Remember, your eye will always focus on the brightest point. So if you light your home and flag, you wouldn't want the flag so bright that you wouldn't notice the lighting on your home. It would all just blend in and you would loose the character that lighting can bring.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
07-09-2007, 11:47 PM
When highlighting a Flag Pole (with a flag flying of course) it is generally necessary to use 3 Fixtures for the purpose of triangulating the light onto the flag itself. Most flags will fly in different directions according to wind conditions and you want it visible from 360 degrees.

You also want to graze some light up along the length of the pole so it does not appear that you have a floating flag in the sky.

Bullets, or ingrounds will do the trick but pick narrow beam lamps (FRA, ESX MR16s work well in most residential applications).

See photo attached.

David Gretzmier
07-10-2007, 03:19 AM
:canadaflag: , literally.

Chris J
07-10-2007, 03:47 PM
I agree with your analogy as long as there is actually 360 degrees in which to view it from (such as in your picture post).

Pro-Scapes
07-10-2007, 06:15 PM
The flag in the original post is viewable from 360 degrees. If the flag is blowing back twoards the house you can still see it from the sides and it may be left in a shadow. If its blowing to either side then its viewable from the front as well... If its blowing straight out from the house its viewable from the sides.

Chris J
07-10-2007, 10:19 PM
:confused:
Light coming out of an MR16 lamp will be cone shaped. If the fixture is positioned properly, and the correct beam spread is selected, the flag will always be within this cone no matter which way it is blowing. We could argue about this forever, but it no one would ever be right or wrong.
I will say this though: As long as we are stuck on the 360 degree thing, I guess we are going to need to figure out a way to light the back side of his porch posts! :p

Chris J
07-10-2007, 10:24 PM
Carcrz,
Make sure you light up that front step real good. It's going to be hard for someone to see it with all the spots in their eyes! Wouldn't want you to get sued!

carcrz
07-10-2007, 10:50 PM
There's 6 lights in the awning right there (or I think that's how many, I'll go check). I almost debated just leaving those lights on & give the flag a shadowed/slightly lighted effect, but I think our country's flag should be displayed on its own.

carcrz
07-10-2007, 11:30 PM
Oops, Only 3 -- 2 on the front, 1 on the right side just around the corner, then the 2 on the garage of course. Of course I went out to take a picture in the dark & 2 of the bulbs are burned out. Tomorrow...

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
07-11-2007, 12:09 AM
Chris... is that sarcasm or wit? I can't tell. Clearly if you are using bullet or similar fixtures in the ground, aimed up, near a pathway, you would install glare louvers in the fixture. That is just a no-brainer.

Also by picking a good, professional quality bullet, with a proper shroud, installed properly with good photometric calculations done first, glare should not be an issue.

Have a great day.

Pro-Scapes
07-11-2007, 12:27 AM
my original idea still would be my plan... uplight on the front of the flag then uplight the home using softer lamps that would also dust the flag.... Experiment at night with 3 lights... try 1... then 2... then 3 and let us know what you decide to do... and why... and post pictures so we can all learn from this...

On an actual install and design I would demonstrate this and let the client decide. Its actually illegal to fly an American flag at night without light on it.

David Gretzmier
07-11-2007, 01:33 AM
light may be in a cone, but one thing I've learned, that light, pointed straight up, is not gonna bend around that pole. wherever the light is, there will be a shadow made by the pole, whether 2 inches thick or 4 inches.

one may be fine, but two, thats finer.

carcrz
07-11-2007, 08:14 PM
Here's a pretty crumby night time pic (minus the one bulb on the right that is burned out.)

Pro-Scapes
07-11-2007, 08:45 PM
great now fill in the blanks and show us what you end up with! install it above ground with reg wirenuts first make sure you like it before you make final connections!

carcrz
07-12-2007, 11:46 PM
So I was playing around on Kichler's site & came across one of their design programs & of course now I want more. I think I'm going to add path lights, maybe the ones that look like flowers; how many for that space - 2, 3? Also, a couple lights on the right in the Yews. I forgot to ask earlier, what spots do you guys recommend for that flag? I keep reading a lot on Kichler & Cast so I guess those are the brands I'm going to use.

Pro-Scapes
07-13-2007, 08:17 AM
cast bullet or 15384 in your choice of azt or bbr... use the paths sparingly... we have a 25 ft walkway at our home and only used 2 pathlights.

Place the paths at the grade changes or steps and if the turns are not shown well... chances are if you integrate the porch lights via x10 or upb then you wont need much path lighting.

I would really consider swapping out the glare bombs you got going on now.

carcrz
07-13-2007, 08:32 AM
I'll change them out soon enough. I just want to get the rest done first.

Chris J
07-13-2007, 05:49 PM
Food for thought: BBR's are more expensive than regular BR's. Both are brass, but the BR is a mustard color while the BBR is an aged bronze color. If you don't mind the color, you can save yourself some bucks.
Personally, I hate the BR line. I'll be meeting with the Kichler folks in a couple months and this is one of the topics that will be confronted.

Pro-Scapes
07-13-2007, 10:57 PM
I agree... The BR looks a bit cheap. The BBR isnt that much more... Take the plunge it will blend much better. I like the AZT looks better than the BR

carcrz
07-26-2007, 06:43 PM
I went w/ the 15384's that Billy recommended in the AZT (black) housings. Picked up a Kichler 300 watt transformer w/ timer & photocell. That should be good for what little there is to light up there. The back may need 600 watts when I get there.

I think I will put a dimmer on those porch lights so they aren't quite so distracting. As I'm sure you have noticed, it looks a little like a stadium after dark up there.

I went ahead & got 4 of the fixtures w/ the thought of using the extras somewhere. Think I should light the tree? Front or back side? Maybe in the tree w/ a different fixture?

I'm up for any other ideas for the front (any!). You're thoughts are very much appreciated & all of your comments & pics have given me some great insight. :usflag:

Chris J
07-26-2007, 08:28 PM
[QUOTE=carcrz;1909512]I went w/ the 15384's that Billy recommended in the AZT (black) housings.

Just so you won't be confused with future orders, the 15384AZT with a black housing would be called a 15384BKT (BKT is black, and AZT is Architectural Bronze). Also, Transformers with built in timers/photocells are an accident waiting to happen. If you are not savvy enough to rewire these items, when the timer craps out you have to replace the entire transformer. Transformers with optional timer/photocell capability is a much better choice in my humble opinion. A little more costly, but well worth the expense.
Good luck to you in your endeavors......

carcrz
07-26-2007, 08:59 PM
Just so you won't be confused with future orders, the 15384AZT with a black housing would be called a 15384BKT (BKT is black, and AZT is Architectural Bronze). Also, Transformers with built in timers/photocells are an accident waiting to happen. If you are not savvy enough to rewire these items, when the timer craps out you have to replace the entire transformer. Transformers with optional timer/photocell capability is a much better choice in my humble opinion. A little more costly, but well worth the expense.
Good luck to you in your endeavors......

Oops. I have the black ones in hand, so 15384BKT they are!

Transformer is a Kichler 15TP300AZT. I believe I can shut it off if I want to. I know that there is a bypass plug if I unhook the photocell.

carcrz
08-01-2007, 07:48 PM
I ended up using 2 lights in the front of the flag. Started w/ 20 watt bulbs, but opted for 35's. The porch lights seem to accent light the back fairly well. I'll get a pic tonight.

Now I'm going to add some basic accent lights to go around the side of the house for a little bit of light. I haven't decided if I want uplighting or paths yet. I have access to a core drill too if I decide mount something in the pavers.

As always, suggestions are greatly appreciated!

carcrz
09-09-2007, 10:44 PM
some pics. Definitely low quality pics at that. Sorry guys.

carcrz
09-09-2007, 10:46 PM
a couple more

carcrz
09-09-2007, 10:48 PM
still need to get some different bulbs for the spots on the flag. The ones on there now have too wide of a beam. I ended up w/ 20's in (2) spots. 3 fixtures almost seemed like too much.

NightScenes
09-09-2007, 10:51 PM
If that's a 3x5 flag, you might not want a beam more than 24 degrees.

carcrz
09-09-2007, 10:53 PM
Really the beam would be okay if it weren't hitting the soffit (sp) on the corner. The light hitting right there draws away from the ground & puts your eyes at the roof.

carcrz
09-09-2007, 10:53 PM
4 x 6 flag if I remember correctly.

JoeyD
09-10-2007, 11:57 AM
Well Light BABY!! All day! It would make that flag pop...35w WFL...Just my opinon....It has worked for me many of time!

Pro-Scapes
09-10-2007, 09:19 PM
no well lights in the bed. Go with a narrow 24 degree like paul said. If thats not enough bump the wattage up. Seems like it could use some adjustment as well but start with the 24 degree