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DJ85
07-05-2007, 07:59 PM
Kubota ZG20, Toro Z400 or Deere 717A? The only three brands within 40 miles of my house. Use on about 8 house accounts 1/2 to 1 1/2 acres?

ohanyan1
07-05-2007, 09:57 PM
If the lawns are well taken care of, I would stay away from the Kubota. The Toro and the Deere will give you a superior cut.

In my opinion, the 717 is the best of these 3 mowers. It is the only truely commercial grade machine of the group. The Deere has the larger drive wheels and is a solid machine.

Word.

robbo521
07-05-2007, 11:29 PM
i can only speak of the 717a.mine is great and going strong.just hit 100 hrs on it and love it each day.but i only cut about 12 to 15 acres,only7 yards.

DJL50
07-06-2007, 01:12 AM
I have the Toro Z 400 and like it a lot. I liked the all 7Ga deck. I can get any part I need from Toro in a day or two from my dealer. Toro parts seem expensive but hear A LOT about how DEER parts are way expensive and now they have you locked in to buying engine parts form only DEER. Because Briggs or whoever makes the engine but only DEER will service and provide parts. May or may not be a big deal but something to consider.

Bagit
07-06-2007, 08:40 AM
[QUOTE=ohanyan1;1887250]If the lawns are well taken care of, I would stay away from the Kubota. The Toro and the Deere will give you a superior cut.

In my opinion, the 717 is the best of these 3 mowers. It is the only truely commercial grade machine of the group. The Deere has the larger drive wheels and is a solid machine.

Word.[/QUO My sister has a zg 20 and it cuts just fine. True, i haven't cut w/all the brands. Alot of the cut quality depends on how you use the machine. Keeping the blades sharp helps. Use the decks size and mid speeds for cutting and you won't have a problem w/any brand. A few kubota good points are: Hydrolic deck lift, a round dial for height of cut, simple and easy. Very compact machine. What trips me out is when people try to bash the cut quality of a brand. Come on guys i have seen home depot riders leave decent cuts on high dollar lawns that are irragated, fertilized, seeded. Nice thick lawns mulched right up. SLOW DOWN and keep blades sharp.

ohanyan1
07-06-2007, 09:26 AM
[QUOTE=ohanyan1;1887250]If the lawns are well taken care of, I would stay away from the Kubota. The Toro and the Deere will give you a superior cut.

In my opinion, the 717 is the best of these 3 mowers. It is the only truely commercial grade machine of the group. The Deere has the larger drive wheels and is a solid machine.

Word.[/QUO My sister has a zg 20 and it cuts just fine. True, i haven't cut w/all the brands. Alot of the cut quality depends on how you use the machine. Keeping the blades sharp helps. Use the decks size and mid speeds for cutting and you won't have a problem w/any brand. A few kubota good points are: Hydrolic deck lift, a round dial for height of cut, simple and easy. Very compact machine. What trips me out is when people try to bash the cut quality of a brand. Come on guys i have seen home depot riders leave decent cuts on high dollar lawns that are irragated, fertilized, seeded. Nice thick lawns mulched right up. SLOW DOWN and keep blades sharp.

Well, your sister may have had a ZG20, however, I had the pleasure of using a ZG23 for an entire season. I will tell you that the cut is simply not up to par. The lift that the deck creates is not impressive. I will also tell you that the hydraulic deck lift mechanism had me in the shop 3 times. There is nothing simple about these machines. Kubota created the machines with good intentions, however, I truly feel that they fell short of a machine with long term reliability. My local Kubota dealer does not stock the ZG series any longer due to all the warrenty work that they had to deal with on these machines with most of the work centering around the transmission. Additionally, you say slow down. Slowing down = losing money. The low blade tip speed of the Kubotas = less productivity.

But tell your sister I said hello. :waving:

inHaliburton
07-06-2007, 10:50 AM
I've had my JD 337 for about 2 weeks, 55 hrs. on the clock. It's a fine machine, cuts well in tall and/or wet grass. Love the Kawi engine, purrs like a kitten with synthetic oil. Downside for me: on rough terrain, I get bounced around pretty good.

mhussey
07-06-2007, 03:41 PM
If the lawns are well taken care of, I would stay away from the Kubota. The Toro and the Deere will give you a superior cut.

In my opinion, the 717 is the best of these 3 mowers. It is the only truely commercial grade machine of the group. The Deere has the larger drive wheels and is a solid machine.
Word.


You probably need to do some research before you post. The 400 series is a true commercial mower. It is a compact commercial mower as opposed to the 500 series which is a full size Z.


Toro


Kawasaki® Engine 21 hp V-Twin
Air Filter Standard paper and foam
Cutting Deck 48" 7-gauge
TURBO FORCE®
Spindle Housings Cast iron with
9-3/8" base
Spindle Bearings Ball bearings
Blades 1/4" thick alloy steel
Blade Tip Speed 18,500+ ft/min
Clutch 175 ft-lb
Electromagnetic
Height of Cut 1-1/2" - 4-1/2" in 1/4" increments
Discharge Chute High-performance rubber
Carrier Frame 2" x 2" x 3/16" tubular steel
Ground Speed 8.3 mph forward
4.8 mph rev
Hydraulic Pumps Hydro-Gear
10 cc/rev
Hydraulic Wheel Motors Hydro-Gear
15.1 cir, 1-1/4" tapered shaft
Hydraulic Fluid Premium synthetic
Drive Tires 23" x 9.5"-12"
4-ply
Caster Tires 13" x 5"-6"
4-ply smooth
Steering Controls 1-5/8" dia. levers; adjustable
Fuel Capacity 10 gallons
ROPS Folding; standard


Deere

19-hp OHV, air-cooled, vertical shaft, Kawasaki® gas engine
9-mph transport speed

Hydrostatic System
Exclusive single-body dual-unitized Kanzaki pump for greater reliability
Closed Loop system eliminates cross contamination possibility
2-gallon (U.S.) reservoir allows a longer "dwell time" - enabling system to run cooler

7-Iron II™ Deep-Deck Mowers
48-inch 7-Iron II™ mower deck
Provides a powerful vacuuming action to lift the grass and create better airflow
One-piece 7-gauge stamped steel means no weld points to fail
Full floating deck follows ground contours, providing the best groomed appearance

Spindles
Ribbed cast aluminum spindle housings provide strength and cooling surface area that stands up to commercial applications
Three 25mm spindles are cold-forged and heat treated for added strength
Spindles are supported by precision ball bearings, providing enduring performance and reliability
Spindles can be greased from the top of the mower deck

Heavy-Duty Canister Style Air Cleaner
Standard heavy-duty canister air filtration system improves engine life

Two-Lever Hydrostatic Drive Controls
Zero-turning radius for excellent maneuverability
Dual-lever, hydraulically dampened operator controls provide a smooth ride
Ergonomically designed for rider comfort during extended operations

Deck Height Adjustment
Innovative, low effort dial height-of-cut adjustment with foot assist deck lift system
Fifteen height-of-cut positions from 1.5 inches to 5 inches in 1/4 inch increments

Large Fuel Capacity
Single-fill 8.5 gallon (U.S.) fuel tank allows for all-day mowing
Top-draw dual tank for added safety

Deluxe Comfort Seat
One-piece, high-back, deep-cushioned with standard armrests
Up to 5 inches fore-and-aft adjustment to match operator size

Serviceability
Flip-up seat for easy access to the hydraulic system
Open engine compartment for full access to engine components
Flip-out foot panel for easy access to deck spindles

Safety
Bilingual (English and Spanish) safety decals and operational safety video
Foldable ROPS certified to OSHA 1928.51

Two-Year "Bumper-to-Bumper" Limited Warranty*
Local John Deere Dealer takes care of all warranty service. (There's no need to go to component suppliers for service.) *See dealer for details.


List Price $7,819.00* (U.S.)

If you will note the quoted comments of the original poster and read the specs to prove what he said is incorrect! The Deere uses a single pump where as the Toro has two separate pumps. Toro has a larger gas capacity! Spindles seem to be way larger on the Toro. The full 7 gauge welded deck seems to be made better than the Deere. Warranty's are the same! Deere is just a tad bit faster. In my opinion I would think the Toro edges out the Deere. Go look at specs before posting next time.

Duncan90si
07-06-2007, 04:42 PM
I run a ZG20 daily and I am happy. Yes, its not the fastest or the heaviest built mower on the market, but it is an all around good mower. I have seen mowers with a better cut quality, but the ZG's is still good nonetheless.

Mine has over 700 hours on it and it has been in the shop once for a faulty parking brake switch. I beat the sh!t out of it and it seems to keep taking it And when I say beat I mean it. I would have never thought the ZG would take the abuse that I dish out so well. The stamped deck is surprisingly strong and I have yet to do any serious damage to it. The hydro deck lift along with it being shaft driven both make life nice. I bought it slighty used for $4500 with the bagger setup and front weights, so I'm content.

The things I would change about the ZG series.
Get rid of, or lengthen, the built in jack on the front of the mower. It doesn't lift it high enough to get an impact gun underneath it to change the blades, so I use a floor jack anyways.
Offer something along the lines of the Hustler's flex forks.
Redesign the front edge of the floor pan, where the "K" emblem is on the front, so it doesn't hang out in front of the frame/front casters. Mine is smashed to hell from bumping into trees, loading mowers and such. :)


ohanyan1- Sorry to hear about your bad luck. I know I got a good one.

ohanyan1
07-06-2007, 06:19 PM
You probably need to do some research before you post. The 400 series is a true commercial mower. It is a compact commercial mower as opposed to the 500 series which is a full size Z.


Toro


Kawasaki® Engine 21 hp V-Twin
Air Filter Standard paper and foam
Cutting Deck 48" 7-gauge
TURBO FORCE®
Spindle Housings Cast iron with
9-3/8" base
Spindle Bearings Ball bearings
Blades 1/4" thick alloy steel
Blade Tip Speed 18,500+ ft/min
Clutch 175 ft-lb
Electromagnetic
Height of Cut 1-1/2" - 4-1/2" in 1/4" increments
Discharge Chute High-performance rubber
Carrier Frame 2" x 2" x 3/16" tubular steel
Ground Speed 8.3 mph forward
4.8 mph rev
Hydraulic Pumps Hydro-Gear
10 cc/rev
Hydraulic Wheel Motors Hydro-Gear
15.1 cir, 1-1/4" tapered shaft
Hydraulic Fluid Premium synthetic
Drive Tires 23" x 9.5"-12"
4-ply
Caster Tires 13" x 5"-6"
4-ply smooth
Steering Controls 1-5/8" dia. levers; adjustable
Fuel Capacity 10 gallons
ROPS Folding; standard


Deere

19-hp OHV, air-cooled, vertical shaft, Kawasaki® gas engine
9-mph transport speed

Hydrostatic System
Exclusive single-body dual-unitized Kanzaki pump for greater reliability
Closed Loop system eliminates cross contamination possibility
2-gallon (U.S.) reservoir allows a longer "dwell time" - enabling system to run cooler

7-Iron II™ Deep-Deck Mowers
48-inch 7-Iron II™ mower deck
Provides a powerful vacuuming action to lift the grass and create better airflow
One-piece 7-gauge stamped steel means no weld points to fail
Full floating deck follows ground contours, providing the best groomed appearance

Spindles
Ribbed cast aluminum spindle housings provide strength and cooling surface area that stands up to commercial applications
Three 25mm spindles are cold-forged and heat treated for added strength
Spindles are supported by precision ball bearings, providing enduring performance and reliability
Spindles can be greased from the top of the mower deck

Heavy-Duty Canister Style Air Cleaner
Standard heavy-duty canister air filtration system improves engine life

Two-Lever Hydrostatic Drive Controls
Zero-turning radius for excellent maneuverability
Dual-lever, hydraulically dampened operator controls provide a smooth ride
Ergonomically designed for rider comfort during extended operations

Deck Height Adjustment
Innovative, low effort dial height-of-cut adjustment with foot assist deck lift system
Fifteen height-of-cut positions from 1.5 inches to 5 inches in 1/4 inch increments

Large Fuel Capacity
Single-fill 8.5 gallon (U.S.) fuel tank allows for all-day mowing
Top-draw dual tank for added safety

Deluxe Comfort Seat
One-piece, high-back, deep-cushioned with standard armrests
Up to 5 inches fore-and-aft adjustment to match operator size

Serviceability
Flip-up seat for easy access to the hydraulic system
Open engine compartment for full access to engine components
Flip-out foot panel for easy access to deck spindles

Safety
Bilingual (English and Spanish) safety decals and operational safety video
Foldable ROPS certified to OSHA 1928.51

Two-Year "Bumper-to-Bumper" Limited Warranty*
Local John Deere Dealer takes care of all warranty service. (There's no need to go to component suppliers for service.) *See dealer for details.


List Price $7,819.00* (U.S.)

If you will note the quoted comments of the original poster and read the specs to prove what he said is incorrect! The Deere uses a single pump where as the Toro has two separate pumps. Toro has a larger gas capacity! Spindles seem to be way larger on the Toro. The full 7 gauge welded deck seems to be made better than the Deere. Warranty's are the same! Deere is just a tad bit faster. In my opinion I would think the Toro edges out the Deere. Go look at specs before posting next time.

You may be correct but at least Delvon Roe had the good sense to choose Michigan State over your Tarheels.:laugh:

McFarland_Lawn_Care
07-06-2007, 07:00 PM
I have just over 70 hrs on Toro Z master 48" with 19 Kawi and LOVE IT!!! No problems at all!! Excellent cut and plenty of power while still relatively easy on gas. Make sure you get the Comfy seat tho!!! I side discharge and mulch only...could not comment on the bagging system.