Help Plant Name please

[TPnTX]

What is the name of this common shrub?

thanks

[sheshovel]

Show us the shrub.

[TPnTX]

der....
here it is.

see I'm thinking Dwf Bfd Holly execept the leaves are cupped upwards.

[leevubehind]

Yes it is a dwarf shrub, ' Suffruticosa '

[sheshovel]

I am sorry, I am old and 1/2 blind. Yes, probably a holly but I cannot see the leaves well enough to ID what kind it is. Have a larger pic?

[sheshovel]

Yes it is a dwarf shrub, ' Suffruticosa '

ReaLLy? I have never heard of that shrub. Are you sure?

[TPnTX]

No thats the only one I have. I didn't even think I'd need a pic to ID it. I thought it would come to me. A Burford has 3 points anyway.

I can't find a reference to Suffruticosa that looks like that.

[leevubehind]

Buxus, boxwood shrub, suffruticosa thats what it looks like from the picture

[phototropic1]

Ilex cornuta 'Carissa'- Carissa Holly

[PatriotLandscape]

it is a dwarf goezinta

[sheshovel]

Buxus, boxwood shrub, suffruticosa thats what it looks like from the picture

Then you must be referring to
Buxus. sempervirens " Suffruticosa" and if it is one of those it should have opposite, linear-lance-shaped to almost rounded entire leaves with notches at the tips.

My point here is, I do not think leevubehind that you can positively ID this shrub as it has been shown.

[sheshovel]

Ilex cornuta 'Carissa'- Carissa Holly

You sir are also incorrect, there are only 3 types of Ilex cornuta- Chinese Holly
the "Burfordii" the "Dwarf Burfordii" and the "Rotunda".
There is however the Japanese Holly
Ilex crenata that has a "Mariesii" cultivar is that the one you mean?

Me thinks you all need some study on how to use plant botanical names properly. Before you start using them to ID plant material.
I suggest a good plant encyclopedia would be a good investment for all of you.

[sheshovel]

it is a dwarf goezinta

Really Patriot, is there such a shrub with that botanical name? Are you sure there is not a genus name for that first? Educate yourselves guys!

[TPnTX]

Hell hath no fury like a woman...with a shovel.

Wow, I did the bid last night. The plan call for continuing that bed in the pic with the same shrub. I asked the customer what it was because he planted it. He didn't know either.

I should have taken a better pic but my brain forgot to. I'll take one when I dig it up and transplant it

[Sandgropher]

Miss Shovel is a stickler for using the right names with plants, myself i like the common names of plants i cant say the botanical names :confused:

[TPnTX]

oh I know, I like Ms. Shovel.

My pea brain has to stick to the common names as well.

[PatriotLandscape]

Really Patriot, is there such a shrub with that botanical name? Are you sure there is not a genus name for that first? Educate yourselves guys!

really shovel you need to get a life correcting people on the binomial nomentclature of botanical names?

Goezinta spectabilis 'Compacta' happy now?

by the way it's pronounced "Goes into" and was a joke.

I'm an ISA Certified arborist and a Certified Horticulturist i assure I know how plants are regarded to in the industry.

[sildoc]

I love these posts. There are always so many answers and discussions which leaves the poster in the same spot they were to begin with. I find when I have a plant or cultivar of the plant I am unsure of, taking it to the local nursery works wonders.

I can say looking at all the professional installed landscapes in our area, only about 15 % of the plants that can be used are used. If you look around almost all the landscaping use the same plants over and over. Those plants are know by heart but the rest, well not so well if at all.

[Kiril]

Me thinks you all need some study on how to use plant botanical names properly. Before you start using them to ID plant material.

No offense she, but I believe the proper ICBN nomenclature for Chinese holly at the species level would be:

Ilex cornuta Lindl. & Paxton

And for 'Burfordii'

Ilex cornuta Lindl. & Paxton var. burfordii De France

Once the author(s) have been noted:

Ilex cornuta var. burfordii

Also there are a vast number of cultivars and hybrids. The following is a partial list at best:

Some cultivars:

‘Burfordii’
‘Burfordii Nana’
‘Carissa’
‘Needlepoint’
‘Rotunda’
'D'Or'
‘O. Spring’
‘Fine Line’
‘Dazzler’
‘Sunrise’
‘Shiu-Ying’
‘Accent’
‘Willowleaf’
‘Anicet Delcambre'
‘Cajun Gold’
‘Stoutmeyer’
'Compacta'

Some Hybrids:

‘Carolina Cone’
'Dr Kassab'
‘Emily Bruner’
‘Lydia Morris’
‘James Swan’
‘Patrick Smith’
‘Bob Bruner’
‘Ginny Bruner’
‘Bessie Smith’

[TPnTX]

[Goezinta spectabili] certified or not I still can't google it :)

[sheshovel]

No offense taken Kiril, in fact that is what I was waiting for.

[sheshovel]

really shovel you need to get a life correcting people on the binomial nomentclature of botanical names?

Goezinta spectabilis 'Compacta' happy now?

by the way it's pronounced "Goes into" and was a joke.

I'm an ISA Certified arborist and a Certified Horticulturist i assure I know how plants are regarded to in the industry.

As a Certified Horticulturist you should be expected to use correct botanical nomenclature no?
Yes I do need to get a life. Yes, now that you have given the correct name I am happy, little things mean a lot to me dear.
I still cannot find the shrub you named though.

Look guys, I mean no harm here, this is just my little way of trying to get the noobs to educate themselves about the plants they are working with and around. This poster asked about it at least, most could really care less.
I like to try and help change that when I can is all.

Sildoc, I requested a closer, better pic for clarification, then we can be sure to help him and help him correctly.
Yeah he could take it to the nursery, but in taking another pic and working for his answer, he may retain the info longer.

[phototropic1]

You sir are also incorrect, there are only 3 types of Ilex cornuta- Chinese Holly
the "Burfordii" the "Dwarf Burfordii" and the "Rotunda".
There is however the Japanese Holly
Ilex crenata that has a "Mariesii" cultivar is that the one you mean?

Me thinks you all need some study on how to use plant botanical names properly. Before you start using them to ID plant material.
I suggest a good plant encyclopedia would be a good investment for all of you.

Thanks She, for the criticism. However, I'm not sure where you are getting your information on Ilex cornuta Lindl. & Paxt. Michael A. Dirr's Manual of Woody Landscape Plants lists no less than 29 cultivars, of which Burfordii and Burfordii Nana (dwarf burford) are two. He didn't list "Mariesii" in his latest edition, but he did make this disclaimer concerning Ilex cornuta Lindl. & Paxt.:

Numerous slections of Ilex cornuta and the other holly species listed in the Manual I do not pretend or intend to know them. Most presented herin are in the trade or have crossed my observational path. A wonderful new reference, Hollies by Fred Galle, Timber Press (1997) is the reference to consult for the best in-depth information. Under I. cornuta Fred described 73 cultivars and listed another 15 without complete descriptions.

Sheshovel, the Carissa Holly is an extremely popular plant in my part of the country. I'm not exactly sure what part of Northeast TX TPnTX is in, but if he is east of Dallas, the climate is VERY similar to the climate where I live. Plants common in the trade here are also very common there. Every McDonalds and Exxon has at least 50 Carissa Hollies as a part of their landscaping.

That all being said, my 'guess' (and all others') were based on one fuzzy picture. We really need a better look to tell for sure what species and cultivar it is. But I'm betting that you can take a cutting, go to Home Despot, and you will find your match labeled Carissa Holly.

[PatriotLandscape]

As a Certified Horticulturist you should be expected to use correct botanical nomenclature no?
Yes I do need to get a life. Yes, now that you have given the correct name I am happy, little things mean a lot to me dear.
I still cannot find the shrub you named though.


Well I guess it is only a joke in my neck of the woods.

Goezinta (goes into) as in the ground.

it is a plant that "goes into" the ground. Not funny at all if I have to explain it.

Since it was a joke I neve felt the need to put it into the correct form.

Please excuse my poor humor. I too need a life.

[sildoc]

Sildoc, I requested a closer, better pic for clarification, then we can be sure to help him and help him correctly.
Yeah he could take it to the nursery, but in taking another pic and working for his answer, he may retain the info longer.

She,
I realize this but when I am in a fix and need to know a plant I can't waste time to go take a pic, Post it, wait for a response, decifer, retake pic at different angles, repost, wait for answers again, decifer, then take it to the nursery to make sure they know what the heck they are talking about.
I need to make a bid and now knowing what my cost of the plant is.
cultivars, hybrids and such can sway the price way more than I would like to guess at.

This means no disrespect to any or none of the above, just that there are so many answers from each and every person pending the region. each plant has its own characteristics and the cultivars/hybrids can vary so little that making an exact i.d. is near impossible with out seeing the whole plant in 3-d.

I was just making a comment that I see this over and over again and that there are people taking stabs in the dark, most knowing what they are saying, some boosting the count. I say if you aren't sure don't post. why lead someone the wrong way.

[Focal Point Landscapes]

Patriot , I got from the beginning - thanks for the humor . Yeah , its a poor picture of a Carissa, quite popular here , too.

[Venturewest]

http://monrovia.com/PlantInf.nsf/08510e01e61cc962882571a9005a9153/62aebabbdb70a24e88256be9007adb63!OpenDocument&Highlight=0,carissa%20,holly

[sheshovel]

Cool Phototro, we are good then? I am looking in my
American Horticultural Societies- A thru Z Plant Encyclopedia of Garden Plants
Millennium Classic Limited Edition- has more than 15,000 plants and 6000 photos
Has 1095 pages in it. I was under the impression that if this book does not have it listed, it does not exist, proved true when I tried to look up "Goezinta" LOL.

[Kiril]

For those interested, the USDA has an extensive listing of plants as well as a "identification guide" that is linked to their photos

http://plants.usda.gov/gallery.html

I don't believe they classify anything beyond species level.

Also, unrelated, but can come in useful when dealing with trees.

http://selectree.calpoly.edu/

[Kiril]

American Horticultural Societies- A thru Z Plant Encyclopedia of Garden Plants Millennium Classic Limited Edition- has more than 15,000 plants and 6000 photos Has 1095 pages in it. I was under the impression that if this book does not have it listed, it does not exist, proved true when I tried to look up "Goezinta" LOL.

Yea, they wish. Heck she, the University and Jepson Herbaria at UCBerkley have around 2.2 million specimens in their collection and they are not even considered the largest in the country.

http://ucjeps.berkeley.edu/

Specimen Management System for California Herbaria has online access to over 300,000 specimens, collected mostly from CA.

http://www.mip.berkeley.edu/www_apps/smasch/

The New York Botanical Garden Herbarium (largest in the country) has near 7 million specimens.

http://www.nybg.org/bsci/herb/

The Muséum National d'Histoire Naturelle in Paris weighs in at near 9 million specimens.

The estimated specimen count for all the worlds Herbaria is around 300 million and counting.

Another link that may be of some use to someone.

http://plantnet.rbgsyd.nsw.gov.au/iopi/iopihome.htm

[phototropic1]

Yeah, Sheshovel, cool. You forced me to do a little research to back up my identification skills. That's always a good thing. Keeps me on my toes!

Kiril, thanks for all the good ID links. I'm a frequent user of http://plants.usda.gov/gallery.html That's a great resource for finding out what plants are native to your area. And I mean really native, not just one labelled "native". After you look up a plant, you can click on a particular state on their map in which the plant is stated to exist and it'll show in which counties it has been cataloged. I love it.

Can't wait to check out those other websites!

[sheshovel]

Yea, you are correct, use the Berkley site a lot... but do they have descriptions, habitat, native origin, cultivation instructions
and uses listed in those collections for all those specimens too, like my book does?
No, really, I knew the book does not list everything, but up until now when I just bumped into the Holly listings negligence, I trusted it like it was a Holy text for everything. Never again will I worship it's contents like I have for the past 7 years! Thank you for helping me to see the light!

[Kiril]

It's not hard to be blinded when stuck in an industry that caters to cookie cutter landscapes.

In CA, I have always pushed low maint., low water use landscapes. As the years go by, potable water quickly becoming a scarce commodity, I have shifted towards native landscapes that require little or no supplement water.

If you don't already have one, I suggest picking up a copy of the Jepson Manual when Ed. 2 is released.

Another reference I still carry around with me is:

Ornamental Plants. Their Care, Propagation, and Identification by D. Dwight Wait.

Only has about 1000 plants, but the information on those plants has proved extremely useful over the years.

[PatriotLandscape]

We are very native oriented in our designs and some customers love it, some hate it and some don't care. The people who have gone through a drought with our plantings are always amazed at how it withstood the harsh season.

[sheshovel]

Not me, I make too much money installing drip irrigation systems to do that. They are the perfect low water use solution. Low maint and no irrigation system = loss of income for me.
Not sure what you meant buy your statement there but I am the last landscaper who would be blinded or be caught dead installing cookie cutter landscaping. They are fast and easy and quick $$ but I don't do my work that way. My landscapes are an art form to me, never installed two the same in 14 years. I may use the same types of plants because they do well in my area.
But I always mix it up and try to install new and different stuff in them all too.
Last few years I have been on a big ornamental grass kick. Use them a lot.

[Kiril]

Not sure what you meant buy your statement

Landscapers really have little choice. You can go to any given nursery in your region and are faced with the same plants, with a few exceptions. There is very little variability between nurseries, even if there are a vast number of plants that would work in the region. You see, blinded by the lack of options.

They are the perfect low water use solution.

I would argue the perfect low water solution is no (supplement) water. Keep in mind, this is coming from someone who primarily makes his income in irrigation. I'm certainly not saying that in ALL situations a true xeriscape is desirable, but there is certainly no reason why there can't be several xeriscaped zones in any/all installed landscapes.

Also consider the benefits gained by encouraging native populations in regions (such as CA) where exotic species have all but replaced what once grew there in abundance.

As times change, one needs to change as well, or risk being left behind. The trick is to strike a balance between the need to make a living and the need to conserve our environment.

[TPnTX]

CARISSA HOLLY it is. Thanks.

[AUHort1990]

Carissa holly came from a sport off of Ilex cornuta 'Rotunda'. Sometimes part of a carissa will revert back to the parent plant Rotunda. If this happens you will need to prune it out. The leaves will also sometimes cup. Not much you can do about that though.

[sheshovel]

You must not have noticed Kiril, I am in Cali too. I also plant Cali native plants and I do do zeriscaping. All nursery stock material native or not needs to be consistently watered for the first summer anyway... I have found. I live in an area with heavy deer populations, native plants are their only food source. I have to plant things they don't like to eat. Yes, I do agree we are limited by what our nurseries stock, but no more than we are limited by our planting zones and conditions. If I want something exotic or special I order it on-line.

[PatriotLandscape]

we use drip for all plantings as well. No irrigation no warranty.

[Kiril]

I have never been a big fan of drip. I use micro (mostly ag stuff) almost exclusively, however some new advances in clog free drippers may warrant a closer look at drip again.