Attention! OPE Manufactures & Lawn Magazines! [Archive] - LawnSite.com™

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GrassMaster

02-20-2000, 02:02 AM

I’m thinking of all the hard work that I do & the many others including Chuck. I was looking at some of the trade magazines & trying to figure out what they get paid for from these OPE manufactures. All that money, for so little content or content that has little value to the Pros in the Lawn Service Business only 3 to 5 pages per issue. For us no compensation for all our efforts. Why do these people lurk here & have no intentions of promoting our efforts. I just found out that I received 7500+ hits this past 30 days on my site & I’m sure Chuck is getting about 3 times this or more. I’m thinking & I’m thinking is it worth it waiting for a OPE manufacture or some Trade Magazine coming to our rescue. We have content!I'm now thinking about it in a different way than some others do but I did read a article complaining about OPE manufactures at a particular web site. I’m mad about all the advertising they pay for in these magazines. There is a little one out there called Blank Blank & Blank & etc. (30 pages max). No the one I’m talking about is not even on the Internet yet so don’t go to my site looking for the link, but others are guilty of this too but they are also paid too by OPE manufactures. They claim to publish & circulate 90,000 issues a month & it cost thousands of dollars to advertise on just a half of a page, for just one month.Well I used to get about 30 magazines a month & maybe 2 or 3 would be picked up, the rest thrown away. Manufactures just cling to them paying them big bucks to write articles, when looking at this particular magazine there is 3 to 5 pages of content & the rest advertising. Lets just say 10 out of a hundred, 100 out of a thousand & that’s 9000 out of 90,000 circulated actually get read. That’s not much on a magazine that gets filed in the trashcan. Our content stays up & is just added too. So you can go back to read later at your convenience. If you come in to our site a year from now, the content is there now just as it was then & more.My web site keeps growing. Chucks & others too, but where is the support we need to provide this valuable content, where is the OPE & Magazine support that we need so bad. What else do we need to do, we can’t just do this forever for free. They are not the only people on the Internet. There are other domains out there besides their own domain. We beat the pants off the others & we don’t have 100’s & 100’s of thousands of dollars to keep the web site department going. Most of us are 1 man shows.I looked at this magazine & came up with over $75,000 minimum in advertising & some months over $100,000. That’s a lot for something that has 3 to 5 pages of content. Then thrown away, now what could we do with 10% to 20% of that. Yes we could pay some big name like they do $500 or so to write us an article once a month on workers comp or how to retain employees geared toward the $1,000,000 companies. But what we could do is tell them to write it for all companies even ones with less than 20 employees, instead of writing it just for large million dollar companies so everybody could get something out of it.Or (LOL) we could instead of paying them $500, we could put in inserts about their rocket science books that got people thinking this lawn service business is rocket science & that’s the way these guys perceive it after reading these books. Then their head gets so clogged up with that junk they can't even work & enjoy themselves anymore.It does more damage than good. If most of these guys would run the business & work doing the actual work than making rocket science out of it, they would make a extra 20K or more a year & live longer. This business is easy if you don't think so, stand at some major intersections & count the number of trucks going by. If it wasn't easy why did you get in to it? You work with a small investment (40K is very small in the business world), make money & grow if you want too. If you try & it has been done on a lot less operating capital, just get up $5,000 & your in business. From there it is straight up if you try. Right it’s very simple & very easy. Think its tuff go & get into retail where you have got to lay down some serious cash & then make 25K to 50K if your lucky. Don't make it rocket science just work, make money & live a happy successful life. That’s why God created this kind of work he was looking after the people that had a dream of working on their own with few headaches, low investment & make a decent living!Later I will put out a book that will be easy to understand without rocket science. LOL if I ever finish it & it’s unlikely because of this Internet junk. But it will be in easy to understand in English. I'm just going to tell you how to be successful in the lawn service business, the mistakes others & I have made, my ideas & give you plenty of "Short Cuts to Success". If you are in to the simpler way to make money with few headaches this book will help you live a better life in the green industry. Yep I’m spamming where’s the SPAMCOP now, when he is needed? I've tried to get these mags to let me put a page or 2 promoting their magazine & even put up a sign up form for their free magazine. All I ask is a small insert or 2 in their magazine about my web site. They say no because they are bought out by the big OPE manufactures & they want them to print stuff about 401K, health insurance, hiring help out of our country, drive those profit margins up. Save your money & put it in a 401K plan of your own or do like all the others that are rich & buy rental property. Health insurance do like everybody else does that is self-employed buy it the good stuff is about $350 or $400 a month don’t cry & whine about the price of it. You will buy a new truck but not insure your family, go figure. Give family, friends or strangers work if you’ve searched the entire continental U.S. & still can’t find anybody. Then try another country if that is what you want or just support who you care about & take good care of them. Because one day they will take care of you. You want to make more money buy larger equipment, if it takes you twenty hours of looking for the perfect 21” walk behind forget it you will never make it, you my friend are walking backwards. If you want to accomplish it all just work smarter not harder!Well how are you going to do this hiring cheap help & putting others out of work? When have they ever told you how to edge effectively with a trimmer, what to do about flats all the time, how to clean a carburetor that’s pouring gas in the middle of a job without going to shop or provide you with copies of contracts. Which direction & how to cut with your mower so it will not clog up as bad & so forth. I have done all of this & more. (BRAG) I the GrassMaster have helped 100's probably more like 1000's, one of the most well known names in the business & have not asked for one red cent doing it. Tell me which magazine or OPE manufacturer has ever done this. NADA, not a onion! They all require money for that high dollar advertising. That in all reality you pay for every red cent of it. Yes, several magazines have even interviewed me. They wouldn’t even give me a copy or tell me which issue my article was going to be in. But they got their free info. These OPE manufactures & magazines are reading this now just as you are. My web reports on my traffic don’t lie they are hear watching every move we make. That’s a fact Jack! Can you fathom what we could do if we had this kind of financial backing? We could virtually put them out of business. Then these same magazines tell you to have help brought into the states, give your employees a 401K plan & all this other stuff. I'm not against them but I have friends & family that can't even find a good job & its because these magazines have convinced the owners of these lawn service business's that you can't get good help here in the U.S., well you can you were once one.You just got to try harder because they are out there looking for work & they just want to be treated right. You think you have a patent on the only hard work there is no not quite, have you ever worked as a deep fry cook at one of these burger places or seafood restaurants for min wage, its a lot harder than slinging around a trimmer & riding a ZTR all day & they would love to work for you, but you can't cuss them, hurry them, not let them off when they want & not even one of them will ever work as hard as you but they are willing to try too. But your company pays 3 dollars more than they get paid frying those fries & they are hoping they will find a job with you. Everybody else has employees & some of their work is hard too, not just yours!They tell you to learn a different language. Yep bring them on over cheap help & they work hard. Its true they do in fact I do business with them & they are good people, in fact the best customers we got. I've asked them to keep an eye on the front, in front of other customers that I can’t trust so I can go in the back of the shop. I can trust these loyal people. So please don't get me wrong & try to understand where I'm coming from. Lets give everybody an equal chance. Lets don’t condemn a whole country for being lazy & another for all of them being good hard working loyal workers. Because it’s not true & if somebody thinks different Please speak now or forever hold your piece. Who will step up & make complete idiots out of themselves saying different. I’m waiting. Well? So please change your biased on way attitudes? Give everybody a chance all it can do is make you money. Do you think that Mickey D’s around the corner only hires 5 or 10 people a year. I have a friend that has a 50 employee business & in a years time he sends out 200 W2 forms minimum a year. Its called being in business or self employed!They even go out on their own & they are putting the other guys out of business. Then when the other guys go up on their yearly contract at commercial places, they can't get a raise because it will be a matter of time before more of them are here & they can get their place done cheaper. So they say they can't give a raise because it's not in the budget. Then they put it up for bid hoping these guys will bid on it & they even go to where they are working to ask them, lots of times they even tell them what they will pay or were paying. It’s not fair to anybody!It's pretty impressive when one of these so called presidents of the condo home owners association pulls up at one of the other commercial places & sees one of them pushing a 36" walk behind that the self-propelled went out on a month ago & the other is trimming a 7' tall hedge, 6 ' wide & a 150' long with a foot or more of new growth standing on a 5 gal bucket from the local sub sandwich shop & a $12 pair of hand clippers form the local hardware mega store. Boy oh boy that’s all it takes & this condo rep will pay anything to witness this on their property. Yes sir they like performers & they will pay top dollar for it.Yep thanks to those mags & the OPE manufactures that finance these mags to publish this 3 to 5 pages of stuff written for the big lawn service companies a month got me to thinking that in a matter of time we better learn to speak their language because we will be working for them. But they wouldn't hire us because we are labeled lazy Americans. Just read any of the mags related to the Lawn service business. LOL maybe they will hire us to give bids oh that’s right the other property managers are going to them & telling them what they are paying now. Well we’re out of work again.Oh well I'll find something else to make money at & maybe if I put my entire life into it. It want be taken over by a lower priced labor force & I can get those big bucks that I paid in to Social Security if there is any left when I'm old enough to retire if they haven't spent it on other things. Go figure!I just think they should write articles that are suited for all of us, not just the big boys. But the OPE manufactures condone this because they are paying the big bucks for it. They watch us closely here on the net every day but they go unnoticed. We the pioneers on the Internet providing more content by accident than they do on purpose & they get paid the bucks at our expense while they profit forsaking all others. But the manufactures support them & by themselves on a individual basis they couldn’t make a pimple on our butts when it comes to trying to make a living in the Lawn Service Business. But they get paid well trying to steer us the direction they are dictated too. If any manufactures or magazine reps would like a shot at the title go ahead & get you a mess of it. Lets hear from you & I’ll make a deal with you. You can appreciate this very much. I’m going ahead & making sure that you will get paid if you make a rebuttal against this. Did you understand you would get paid for your comments about this post? Because you are not working for free like we are & if you do make comments we know you are getting paid too. When have any of you done anything for free. Chuck with his valuable content, the GrassMaster & many others on the Internet have not received 1 cent from OPE manufactures or magazines. With out us where would you be? ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++I was once a bottom feeder, scab & all those other names guys get called. I learned the hard way & made a lot of mistakes. Look at the money I made in those 5 years in business & the $100,000 I walked off with for the business. I’m now a wise Buffoon & I can handle criticism. I started at the bottom like everybody else did, they just don’t rememberWhy can’t we get support from OPE Manufactures & Magazines? I personally contacted over 100 manufactures by E-mail less than a year ago & didn’t get a single reply. Well I’m back! More will read it here than the E-mails I sent out that is for sure. They should give us support, when their reps come by the dealers shops they are selling equipment & they try to shove advertising down our throats. I’ve been called on the phone 5 times in 2 days trying to get me to purchase advertising packages that cost a $1000 or more telling me all the money I will make, But they will not buy a $150 banner space for a month on a web site that has growing content. There is something very wrong with this picture. I feel better now & I apologize for the long post.---------- GrassMaster - Have a nice day!!!!! Home Page http://www.lawnservicing.com Visit my new browser Start Up Page http://www.lawnservicing.com/startup/

lawrence stone

02-20-2000, 04:53 AM

GRassmaster wrote:>Why can’t we get support from OPE Manufactures & Magazines? For a very simple reason:When a mfg. buys advertising in a trade mag. they know that thier products will be editorilized in a good manner.But they (Mfgs.) don't even what the general public to know sites like this or yours even exist. Just one dissatisfied customer can be a public relations nightmare (i.e. protest website etc.). Why should the take that chance when they know they can't control the content of any web site other than thier own?

GrassMaster

02-20-2000, 08:07 AM

Hello lawrence Stone:You wrote> When a mfg. buys advertising in a trade mag.they know that thier products will be editorilized in a good manner.>I would hope that the manufactures would think they would be treated in the same manner. We have 1000's of hours of hard work & 1000's of dollars tied up in these sites & we are not going to put our sites reputation on the line because of our own ideas. They should realize this by now.Also wrote> Why should they take that chance when they know they can't control the content of any web site other than thier own?< Other web sites get this kind of support from their commercial sponsors. I think we should be treated in the same manner. But like every thing else in the Power Equipment industry we will lag behind when it comes to progress. LOL it took them over 20 years to come up with a universal standard when it came to using the same format for using microfiche. This I think will be the same? It will be at our expense not theirs.Thank you again lawrence Stone for your comments. I would like to hear from others on this subject. Come on guys 1 response in over twelve hours. I think this post includes everybody. Its your money paying for that advertising. I bet you spend way more time on this forum than reading those magazines that you pay for. They are watching & we need responses. You are paying for the advertising, what if this forum went off line because it couldn't make enough to pay for the expenses it takes to keep it running. Hey we are not even talking about the 100's of hours of labor, just expenses. We need you to voice your ideas on this too. ---------- GrassMaster - Have a nice day!!!!!Home http://www.lawnservicing.com Visit my browser Start Up Page http://www.lawnservicing.com/startup/

GrassMaster

02-20-2000, 03:35 PM

Hello Everybody: I know this is a dirty trick to make this post now, so it will go back on top again. So please try to understand where I'm comming from. You need to really think about this & the impact that this could have on everybody in Green Industry. Believe me they are watching & your feedback is very important to us. All them magazines you see where do you think the advertising dollars come from? It comes out of your pocket everytime you buy a piece of equipment or parts. Do you think that it is right for sites like this & others not get the support they need? Do you think it is right for a 30 page magazine with 3 to 5 pages of content geared for the million dollar lawn companies get paid 75K to 100K for one month of space in a magazine & not 1 red cent of your money goes to sites just like this on the Internet? Hey I tried with all my heart! If you approve of this just remain silent & don't post your thoughts on this. Maybe all these sites will continue to stay online for free. Would any of you dare take on something like this for free & continue to keep this going. It probably cost $250 a month for server space alone to keep this forum going. This site is where you check for hours trying to find the best deal & best kind of trimmer for around $250. Go figure this one out from here. Again if you approve of the way things are going now remain silent. You have done a good job so far. I will continue to voice my thoughts on this until I get results! Chuck & others just like myself could use some support to keep this free. ---------- GrassMaster - Have a nice day!!!!! Home: http://www.lawnservicing.com Visit my browser Start Up Page http://www.lawnservicing.com/startup/

Retro67

02-20-2000, 04:10 PM

Hey if the equipment manufacturers want to overlook, us, so be it. I don't do this for the money, obviously. I don't really have an opinion one way or another. If they want to pay me for ad space, fine, if not that's ok too. I think it would benefit them more than me individually. I have a business and consider this an accent to it since I learn from participating in these forums. If they want to advertise on our forums that would be nice. Maybe we should all approach them. Maybe they don't realize there are a few sources of customers for them online. If you and Chuck want to discuss this further with me, that would be fine. There is power in numbers and eventually they will have no choice but to recognize all of us.John

GroundKprs

02-20-2000, 05:08 PM

Sorry Grassmaster, but I cannot percieve of any Outdoor Power Equipment manufacturer or any trade publication wanting to be associated with any forum. By definition, in a forum people speak their minds. I can praise a good machine, and disparge a bad one, by name.It is customary in our economy for a manufacturer to ignore or belittle any complaints about his product, whether those complaints are valid or not. The mfr will (silently) take valid complaints as input on future product enhancements. If the forum was to be financially supported by any OPE mfrs, forum administartors could be pressured to censor postings, not just relating to that mfr but to competitors. This would put the forums in exactly the same position as the trade magazines, having to present a washed out nothingness in their content. Then how many would participate in a forum? Maybe 10% of the people who happen onto the forum? So the OPE mfrs would have the same exposure in a forum as in print. Since the trade magazines must dance to the mfr's tunes, they also can't have anything to do with a forum.I'm not trying to belittle your message, but I'd like to redirect your question. Instead of seeking support from manufacturers individually, where can you find support?Most free web sites require some details to be allowed to participate in the site. If addresses were collected, you would have data to seek advertisers from a geographic region. This might include equipment dealers, trade assns, insurance cos, truck dealers, trailer dealers. You might even consider the last four of these in a national sense. Vehicle mfrs advertise everywhere, and I think it would be safe to say that most small operators have almost as much invested in vehicles as in equipment. Also, PLCAA and ALCA are not bashful about seeking new members. A little off topic, have you ever asked Doug Karcher to include a "forums" category on his <a href="http://www.msu.edu/user/karcherd/turflinks">The Ultimate Turfgrass Links</a>? I found this site from one of his links.---------- Jim North central Indiana

MOW ED

02-20-2000, 06:05 PM

I certainly do enjoy this as well as other forums and really hope it stays free. I am currently a lawn maintenance professional as well as a firefighter/paramedic and if you visit a site called www.firehouse.com you will see how many equipment manufacturers sponsor that site and it is great. In the site is a section for many types of forums (like this) and the major suppliers have no problem advertising there. I believe that it is just a matter of time before the lawn industry wakes up. For what it is worth ( and I hate to spend money) but if this site was a pay site I would consider it even though I am a very small operation. What I have learned so far is worth plenty to me. Thanks and keep trying.

Keith

02-20-2000, 06:22 PM

I just think a lot of companies don't see the value of these forums yet. They see a greater sales increase from magazine adds. They don't want to step into the snakepit and get bit by people who may have a problem with their product.Let's imagine a large manfacturer of large back pack blowers wants to do a litte advertising. Let's call em Homeblow. Homeblow comes to you and says we are willing to advertise for $1000/month with your site. Everyone agrees and it's a done deal. Meanwhile in the forum a user has had a Homeblow fly apart during use. Two other users step forward and say "mine did the same thing". Before long it has snowballed into "Homeblow is junk." The posts stay up and Homeblow is none to happy and cancels the ad. No loss, someone else will advertise. But modify the numbers a little. Say Homeblow pays $10,000 /month for advertising. At what point would negative posts be deleted? Why do companies like Stihl and Husqvarna advertise in Nascar? Because a lot of people watch it and there is virtually no chance of Ned Jarrett or Benny Parsons (Nascar Announcers) saying the product is Junk. :)Smaller companies that are less known would benefit greatly from advertising here but I don't see the equipment giants wanting to get involved.Also, if it came down to money, I would much rather pay for honest opinions, than to have some watered down rag that is funded by the equipment manufacturers

Administrator

02-20-2000, 06:28 PM

I started this forum about 2 years ago and NEVER even imagined making a single dime from any advertiser. I did it because I love lawn care and I love the conversations and content this forum provides. But, this site is now getting over 400,000 hits a month and thats got to be great exposure for a manufacturer in this businessIf a manufacturer does decide to spend money and place a banner on my forum they better have a good product because they are opening themselves up for a open public discussion. I will never interrupt a discussion about a product. The only discussions I do not like to see on this forum are posts attacking other members or subjects that are off topic.I have received many dozens of emails from startup companies thanking me for providing a place where they can get great info. from many great guys. I thank you for this!Yes, my server and co-location fees peek $250 a month to operate this forum. LawnMonkey.com has helped me with advertising and Phil Nilsson gives me a high percentage of his book sales when somebody buys a book from this site. If a company wants to replace that smaller banner in the upper right let me know and we can work out a price for great exposure.Again, I thank you guys for making this forum a success and I look forward to the future. I have a lot of plans for the lawnsite and I look forward to helping your business grow.PS.. This forum will always remain a free resource to users.

cjcland

02-20-2000, 07:49 PM

grassmaster....maybe you could talk to some auto companies like ford or gm something like that or maybe gatorade stuff like that ray ban there are alot of companies that might be less contoversial subject matter i dont know i dont claim to know anything its just a suggestion maybe t-shirt companies, things like that. it dosnt have to be equipment there are alot of things out there that we use that 1 is just as good as the other unless we want to argue about gatorade vs. powerade whats the differance the one who has the add on your site will make out better than the one who dosnt , if i sound like an idiot let me know im just trying to helpcjc landscape management

Keith

02-20-2000, 08:58 PM

There ya go CJC. That's what I was thinking too. Target companies that have a place in the industry but not tied to it. Anything like that, oil companies who wish to tap new markets, clothing companies, tool companies, aftermarket suppliers, small mail order equipment suppliers.

Nilsson Associates

02-21-2000, 09:21 AM

Interesting discussion on this subject. As most would recognize, forums can provide a rich source of information that can be put to immediate use, have a positive impact on profits, and a place to exchange views. What you can learn here in a matter of minutes, has taken others months or even years to learn ... saving other people from making the same mistakes, or having to learn things the hard way through trial and error. That's what education is all about .. passing on useful info to the "next generation" so to speak. I myself haven't posted anything recently because I saw that the conversations were getting a little personal, out of hand in a way, (some in poor taste) (some childlike) so I didn't want to be identified with the type of posts that were being made. Didn't want to "buy into" posts that were emotionally driven. Even though with forums you take the good with the bad, the price I guess for having the priveledge of saying things from broad perspectives. The problem I have with forums is with unidentified parties although of course I see the need for this ... but I think if participants were held "more accountable" for what was said, more "responsible" somehow, then this would lead to improving the system. As to getting support from equipment manufacturers and advertisers, agreed that it's not wise to "bite the hand that feeds you" but recognize too that the "content" of those major magazines is far reaching, have many "departments" that they report on. Look at the content of Lawn & Landscape Magazine. Hard to top it ... and if it weren't for the advertisers, wouldn't be possible to make available to the trade. Paid advertising via the major mags is a good thing, even though readers probably pay indirectly for the ads and info, at least somebody has "stepped up" to make it all possible AND IN A VERY PROFESSIONAL WAY!! Compare that concept to Public TV or Public Radio ... which is not supported by advertisers. For weeks on end, Public TV and Public Radio have to virtually "beg" for support from their viewing and listening audiences. Where are your "friends" and direct beneficiaries of the programs and content when you need them? Free ride? In an earlier post some months ago this subject was addressed and at that time, I suggested that each person belonging to this forum which I believe has extremely valuable content, make a contribution to the forum .. call it paying ones' dues, membership fees or whatever ... I still find it incredible, that members of this forum TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE FORFUM but will not, can not, do not, do something positive to make it worth while for Chuck to continue bringing this entire program to you. Chuck hasn't asked for your support. The information being exchanged is free only because you who are posting are giving and getting that information ... BUT the "vehicle" the forum itself is the medium making it possible. Just like with Public TV and Public Radio ... members are "begged to" to help out, keep the programs on the air. But how many actually appreciate that enough to dig into their wallets? Why pay for it when you can get it for free? That's the sad part of it all. Invite the guests to dinner and they walk out the door leaving you with a sinkful of dirty dishes. My feeling is that when anybody (anybody) posts here they should be fully identified, and have paid a membership fee in advance to belong to help keep this "show on the air".Phil Nilsson

nlminc

02-21-2000, 09:56 AM

I agree with cjcland and Keith. I also agree with Phil too, but Chuck has not asked for money for using this site. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think advertising my landscape Co. on this site is going to be productive. If there is another way that we can help with the expense of running this site, I would be glad to help out. I would pay dues to be a member of this site, the info given here 98% of the time is very helpfull to all of those in the green industry. Just my thoughts :) Chris

GrassMaster

02-21-2000, 11:21 AM

Hello Everybody:I want to thank Phil & all the others for their comments. I was hoping on more but I take what I get. Hey it is not over till the fat lady sings!It was a problem that needed to be brought up.I have this posted at my Forum & I made a page on my web site for the Green Industry!Like I say if you look at other web sites not related to the Lawn Service Industry the manufactures & Magazines support them.I still look forward to hearing from the Manufacture & Magazine reps.I don't think they will do it, But I made the first move. If they like they can E-mail me so it wont be made public!---------- GrassMaster - Have a nice day!!!!! Home: http://www.lawnservicing.com Visit my browser Start Up Page http://www.lawnservicing.com/startup/

Nilsson Associates

02-21-2000, 02:16 PM

After rethinking this post, I'm positive now that the way to offer this forum is on a membership basis. That way no one has to feel intimidated by "support money" and can voice views about brand names, whatever. I also think that the information presented here not be "free" to those who receive benefits from these posts ... but who they themselves wouldn't bother to spend the time posting a question or answer. Active "members" give and take ... must be a lot of folks who are on the "takers side" but never on the giving side.I propose that the fees for belonging to this forum be $100.00 a year. And that any profits from this site go to those who provide it ... since it is not supported by advertisers. Just like Public TV right?What do you think?P.S. I myself could answer many, many more posts than I do, but the problem is ... finding time. How much time can a person give away, while trying to earn a living at the same time?Phil Nilsson

lawrence stone

02-21-2000, 02:27 PM

So what your saying then Phil is YOU want ME to contrubute $100 plus my time for the PRIVILEGE to give my hard earned and learned advise.I don't profit from this enterprise YOU DO.You are so far out in left field you are in foul ball territory.

Nilsson Associates

02-21-2000, 02:56 PM

That's not the point. The point is that without a forum, thousands of questions would go unanswered. Questions that when answered ... are worth thousands of dollars. People come here to give advice ... people come to get advice. Sometimes a person is on the taking side ... sometimes on the giving side. That should be clear and obvious. Don't you think that given the value of this forum, those who benefit from it, should help the person who makes it possible? Please answer with just one word. Make it a yes or a no.

Finecut

02-21-2000, 03:13 PM

I guess my question would be who stands to profit and who stands to lose? How many free forums do you think a move like this might generate? The people with the information and ideas won't be the ones to profit.

lawrence stone

02-21-2000, 03:33 PM

Hey Chuck,Is the two way cable modem or DSL available at your current physical location?

hall

02-21-2000, 03:45 PM

Whats a 2 way cable modem? I use Road Runner cable service now but im not sure if its a 2 way service. Yes DSL is available in my area.

Charles

02-21-2000, 04:03 PM

The way things are I am being nichel and dimed all over the place. I cannot afford anymore than I am spending right now. I like Chucks way of thinking to keep this site free. Well its not really free because alot of us are volenteering our time. Even though this site has benefited me and I hope I have helped other people. I have spent 9 years without the forum and I am sure I can survive without it. I believe in the way Chuck has run this forum has shown alot of intregity and wouldn't be swayed by advertisers. So Chuck and Grassmaster sell away. Whatever advertisers you can get. Won't bother me. I don't think anyone has a right to dictate how you run your businesses.

Nilsson Associates

02-21-2000, 04:53 PM

Nobody answered my above post with a simple yes or a simple no ...

Lazer

02-21-2000, 04:56 PM

cjcland

02-21-2000, 05:15 PM

this is the information highway not the information toll road please keep it free

GroundKprs

02-21-2000, 05:15 PM

Sorry Phil, must second Lazer's NO.---------- Jim North central Indiana

lawrence stone

02-21-2000, 05:35 PM

ChuckPlease send me an e-mail from your "personal" e-mail account to larryflint@altavista.net

Lazer

02-21-2000, 05:54 PM

Let's face it. The value of this forum is at a unique spot right now. 6 weeks ago, it had 100 users.6 weeks from now, we'll all be working 70 hour weeks. Anybody who's worth their salt is going to be busy making money and frequenting this forum minimally.I see ads on the top of my page, somebody's paying something. Put up a few more, I've got a 21" monitor.

Charles

02-21-2000, 05:56 PM

No, N-O as in noway, nohow...

Eric ELM

02-21-2000, 06:33 PM

I feel that there is a lot of guys that read all this good information that must think what they learn can save them a lot of money over the years. I have chatted with Chuck about the money part of the forum and he said then and in the above post, this forum will always remain a free resource to users. I realize in a big way, that this forum has to be a lot of work for him and in return, I try hard to help out in anyway I can. I have tried to help out others with my posts and my website, which I designed for information only and mainly for the guys at this forum. It was not designed for drawing customers, as you can see, but I have had some job offerings to come work for guys and mow for them. LOL When I retire and move south, I might take someone up on that.I understand where Grassmaster is coming from. Until you actually design a website and maintain it, you don't realize how much work and hours of time it takes to have a website or a forum. I feel Chuck has chosen to have this site free of charge for us users, because he enjoys it. There are a lot of guys that read the info, but don’t post. They are the ones that aren’t contributing anything. If you look at the Who, What, Where forum, there are 26 posts, so that must mean that the other 442 members don’t have any equipment, don’t know who they are or where they are from. On the old forum, this was the biggest thread, so big, that Chuck had to start a second one. Now there is a whole forum for it. Like Chuck said at that forum: Stop by here and let us know a little about yourself and company. Let us know who you are, where your from, and what equipment you use. This will help us answer your questions better. ---------- <a href="http://www.townserver.com/elm/">Eric@ELM</a>

curlawngreen

02-21-2000, 07:38 PM

NO 100 X 500 = $50,000 not bad to let people talk. MA BELL

GrassMaster

02-21-2000, 09:20 PM

*WAIT, JUST ONE MOMENT PLEASE! EVERY BODY JUST HOLD YOUR HORSES*OK Is everybody calmed down, I shure hope so, whew!First I'm going to need some help from a real man. Where in the world is the SPAMCOP I shurely hope he shows up soon!There is no way I can be polite at a time like this.Just cut me some slack & if you want, slam the natural born hell out of me. Call me names & everything else you guys want to do! LOL you can't ban me because I change my ISP # all the time! Thats a fact Jack!!!!!Now all I had was nothing but good intentions & I never dreamed it would be a FREE for all & I stress the word FREE to be FREELY applied because thats what it is all about.Some of you had some good thoughts & ideas.Mr. Stone you might be close. Retro I want them to show me the money! GroundKprs I can't be bought or swayed 1 ioda! MOW ED other manufactures support forums. Keith Manufactures are here daily, I do not have a price for freedom of speech. administrator Thats a lot of hits is this unique visits or are we counting ctr+f5 & or refresh. Sorry if I'm wrong. cjcland I've done all the talking, they can come to me. Keith it would be the same thing with other manufactures. Phil I will get to you later. GrassMaster you POS you started this!? Phil later Lawrence Stone Your a smart & very nice person! Phil Please wait! Finecut the larger a forum the better the info. L. Stone skip Hall Skip Charles buy some books or hang around more if I cut for 9 years I would own a lot of rental property. Phil your pushimg it. Lazer It will be free! cjcland """"""""""""" Groundkprs""""""""""" L. Stone Skip Lazer If Chuck puts 10,000 banners on top just go way over down there to the right & click on the arrow pointing down. This forum will be rocking & Rolling this summer like it is now. This forum is free & they will come. Your working to many hours & that monitor will make you blind so back off from it. Charles """""""""""""" Eric Thanks for your post!Now Phil you had a good idea but most of these guys are not going to pay for anything they don't have too. They are trying to figure out a way to charge to give a bid for cutting grass.Now one thing we can all agree on is we can't agree on anything. Right you bet so you blew it on passing the Manufactures & Trade magazine test. WE will never make any money on the net. WE failed!Nope I do not think so, I just wanted feedback & it got out of hand, the manufactures & trade Magazines will be back when we all grow up. I figure about, hell thats a long time. Maybe 1KKKKKK centons + a birthday.United we stand & divided we fall. One thing most of us can agree on is if we can't have it for free, we don't want it. Right, no I pay my way & I do not want anything thats not owed to me. FREE sounds cheap to me.I was really talking about Manufactures & Magazines paying for banner space & maybe put in a form to apply for a FREE magazine. The way it went on this forum on this post about 450 magazines subscriptions would have been subscribed for. LOLYou guys go to other places on the net & see how the other places are. If you half way look you will see other forums getting sponsored by Manufactures & Magazines. It doesn't matter what the forums are doing it's the targeted audience, that is what they care about. It's the Internet!I just wanted feedback, I thought I made a good post but I was wrong. Shoot me!---------- GrassMaster - Home: www.lawnservicing.com My Start Up Page www.lawnservicing.com/startup/

hall

02-21-2000, 09:33 PM

GrassMasterThis was a great post! Thanks for starting it. You have NEVER started a bad thread. You are an original contributer and you have more lawn knowledge in one finger than most guys in the business. ( not to say members of this forum but in general :) )Were looking at 400,000 + page hits, not unique.I have big future plans for lawnsite.com and lawnpages.com. Like you I someday hope that my work and projects will pay my bills. I have been offline for a while because I had a big family ordeal and until everything is better on my end I will not be online. As a matter of fact, I am only home once or twice a day to get clean clothes and then back to the hospital. Don't worry guys... we are going to get thru this and I will back soooon I hope.You should leave a post in the forum letting the guys know about your new start page!

GrassMaster

02-21-2000, 09:58 PM

Hello Everybody: First I just want to say lets hope Chuck is back soon! We hope everything gets back to normal. We most of all want everything to be OK. Chuck I'm going to say a prayer for you & your family. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Now I would like to thank Chuck for his post & I'm not going to let him down. After the post he made I plan on SPAMMING like hell on his forum! So where is the SPAMCOP????? ---------- GrassMaster - Home: www.lawnservicing.com My Start Up Page www.lawnservicing.com/startup/

lawrence stone

02-21-2000, 10:31 PM

Grassmaster wrote:>United we stand & divided we fall. One thing most of us can agree on is if we can't have it for free, we don't want it. Right, no I pay my way & I do not want anything thats not owed to me. FREE sounds cheap to me. =========================================== Here are some facts about the internet you may have overlooked.This whole internet thingy is based on the cheapskate principal. Built it and they will come. But to get people to come you need to give something away. Why would anybody want to show up at your website? In commercial radio and TV the networks have to offer something interesting for people to tune in and listen or watch. The price one pays for this "entertainment" is having the programs interupted by commercials.If you cannot sell enough commercials you will not be able to provide the quality entertainment to attract the masses.So the real problem lies with the website owner/operators. You have entered into a commercial venture and you don't have the sales and/or marketing skills needed to close any deals. Don't blame the participants or non-participants on your inability to attract paying advertisers.BTW Chuck this site should not cost you a dime for you could easily run a web bbs on a home PC over a cable modem or DSL.I like Lazer have a business I will operating within the next few weeks and I will be working seven days a week until mid July. There will be no time to even lurk here much less participate. If you took the time and interest as "some" of us do with our lawn care businees you web site owners/operators would be sucessfull.

paul

02-22-2000, 02:00 AM

Welcome to the dark ages. I've been landscaping for over twenty years. It never fails to amaze me, we have computers, high speed mowers, blowers and weed eaters, fancy trucks and a million hand tools. But we are still in the dark ages. People wonder why they pay thru the nose for fertilizer or weed killer, when the Home Depot down the steet sells the same one they use cheaper than they can buy it from the local manufacture. You think that the big landscaping firm down the road from you doesn't talk to the other large firm on the other side of the town? They talk, they also get the manufactures rep to come out to them and they cut a deal to buy things cheaper, I do. It's business, areas are different what works in one won't or might work in yours. You have to open up a little. Rule #1 there are no dumb questions. Rule #2 If you think it's dumb refer to rule#1How do you get manufactures to come your way? Don't talk to the dealer, all he wants to do is sell you the equipment or product that he stocks. Talk to the district sales rep. They will bend over backwards to help. If you want them to participate on the forum ask, they may not have all the answerers at that time but will try to find them. If you think the glossy mags that are out there want this forum to contniue, guess again, they make money with ads from the higher food chain not you and I, heck most of those mags are free!!! This is one of the few business that all it takes is a pickup truck a magnet sign & a lawn mower, no college degree, no years of apprenticeship, no million dollars worth of equipment,no large 100,000 sq.ft. building to stock. But if your attitude toward your business is anything less than professional you will fail! People expected landscapers to be less than a used car sales man. You have to break that image, they used to get the Kid down the street to mow their lawn, thats how they will feel about you if your not a Pro. I heard people trying to charge for bids because their time is valueable, well I probably hand out 300 to 400 bids a year,every year,no charge. I also mail out 200 pictures to contractors just so they can see the work that I do. You want to get noticed send your crews out to fix up the local ballfield no charge,if you fix up the field talk to your suppliers they can and do supply somethings for nothing or at a reduced cost especialy if their name gets mention. Make sure the local newspaper knows about it. Something happening in town, a fair or founders day be apart of it. We helped on a river walk one year got our names in the paper and the local park district started using us for all their work. We find places that need help and send crew out on at least one project every year.All right I've ranted enough, time for every one to pull their helmets off. ---------- paul

HOMER

02-22-2000, 06:21 AM

Well now, I wish I even knew what an OPE was, but I don't. I've read all the replies to the original post and understand that this is a free site, no charge to all of us, thats great. I know that advertisers could jump in and help as well, they have budgets for these things right? I also know that if a man devotes his time and his money to maintain anything long enough, he will need some help sooner or later or it will wind up like every other good thing that comes along, it will end.Chuck may not want money, he may not have thought this would have taken off like it did either, the fact is there are those that participate that have given invaluable information to so many rookies that it has shaved years off of their "school of hard knocks" education. An education is costly to say the least. I have recieved an education from reading this forum. I have also heard many of us say "I wish this had been around 5-10 years ago" it sure would have helped me a lot! It sure would have helped me. In this business you're lucky if anybody in your area will tell you jack S#$$! I haven't been in this as long as some but I have been in it long enough to know that what I read and the links I've picked up because of this forum since I joined in December have helped me tremendously, I have even started applying some of this knowledge. Today I'm going to buy a measuring wheel!!!!!!!!!!!LOL Yep, $29.95 at Lowes, I'm cheap too! But I did realize that I needed one after being dogged out by others that own them and use them, I still ain't gonna use it to measure a lawn to see how fast I can mow it though (tongue out and making gaseous sound), but I needed it yesterday for measuring a bed for mulch replacement.Point is, right now I see 472 registered users, no not all respond they just read, but if half of those people were to write a check for five measly, wouldn't miss a dime of it, dollars, wouldn't that take most of the out of pocket expenses away from Chuck? I understand he doesn't want it, this was supposed to be a non-profit venture and free to all that showed up, got no problem with that, I also have no problem going to the local Wally-World and sheeling out $4.95 for a magazine that has 1 stinking article in it that is of interest to me, or going to the convenience store to but a pack of $3.00 cigarettes, or going to the car wash and spending $4.00 cause I'm too damn busy to wash my truck the right way. I'm sure some of us even go and get a six pack(not me I don't drink) and sit at the computer reading all this invaluable information more than once a month. I don't think it would be too much to ask for all of the forum junkies to send a man $5.00 a month to offset the costs of running something like this, hell if he profits a little along the way so be it!!!!This is cheap information, no I can't give $100.00 a month and if it cost me that much...........SEE YA!!! If the money he recieved was over and above his expenses I feel it would be put to use in other ways to further educate a segment of this society who enjoys getting dirty!Chuck, Eric, send me an address and a name and my po little white ass will mail you my check today! If I can't afford that then I need to quit and go to work for somebody else!Nuff said,Homer

jeffclc

02-22-2000, 07:46 AM

It sure seems as if there is a rash of cabin fever spreading through here. I agree with the other posts that the owner(s) of the site(s) should at least be able to cover the expenses of maintaining a site. However, if this site were to become a fee based site, I believe that it would flounder. There are many other places on the Internet that provide areas for discussion forums free of charge. There are also the Usenet Newsgroups for the sharing of information. Simply put, I don't think that this or any other forum would stay at the current level of quality if we were forced to pay for the privelage of being here. No offense, Chuck, GrassMaster, ect. you guys provide a great service to all of us. I think that everyone here has learned and shared valuable information that cannot be obtained elsewhere. I do think that you guys should be compensated for your efforts. I know that you have spent countless hours in designing and mainaining the pages. I also see where the manafacturers are coming from. There have been discussions in the past regarding equipment. Some equipment has had favorable comments, and some has not. That is true with each and every piece of equipment, lawn related or not. Talk to enough pepole, and you will surely find at least ont that has had a lemon, or has had a bad experience with a certian peice of equipment. Would a manafacturer want to promote a site where it had the chance of having its product bashed? Probally not. Another thing that I have noticed is that there is a lack of representives participating in the discussions from the various companies that are discussed here. No one from a major company has ever posted a response here. There have been a few smaller companies posting here, some posts have been helpful, some have been for the purpose of hawking their wares. I think that we need to see some participants from the manafacturers here to clear up many misnomers about their products. If a Toro rep were to participate here, he could set apart any truths from and misnomers about the Toro products. I am not sayint that there are any mosnomers about any specifi products here, but there sure could be. Sitting here looking at this screen, I see an ad for LawnMonkey software, and also a link to a Nillson Assoc. book store. Those two companies took a risk here by advertising. There sure could be a post that could express dis-satisfaction with either product. In fact, I believe that there has been a negative comment or two about one of those products. Compare that to all the positive comments about Phil's books, and also about the LM software. The larger companies will have to weigh the consequenses of the few (many?) negative comments about their product vs. the positive comments. I think that they could advertise here without too much bad press if they were to have a comapny rep here to resopnd to any bad press. IT could be a win-win situation. A major magazine (most of you guys know which) has a hanful of free forums. I have not outrightly noticed any censoring of negative posts about any companies that advertise with them, either in print or online. Of course, I have no way of knowing if posts were deleted right after they were posted, but I doubt it.I guess what I am saying is that you guys derseve to be compensated for your efforts, but I don't think that it is going to be an easy task. Keep up the good work guys, and good luck.

thelawnguy

02-22-2000, 08:07 AM

I agree with Lazer several posts prior.Phil, the answer to your question is NO.I view the forums like a newspaper. Let the advertisers pay the bill. I pay my 35 cents a day to my ISP for the home delivery. And you need to choose which one will suit you. This forum is nice. For the most part, candid posts and all opinions are welcome. I know of another forum, also free, where if you differ with the host on anything you are gagged. People forget, the internet is nothing but raw information, like the posts on this forum, thats why its free, the pay sites have information that is verified and verified once again. Maybe pay for a forum or other media (Phils books are one) where raw information is verified and put into some sort of usable order, but who would pay for someone to tell them to wire an hour meter into a 30 amp pto circuit? Or pay to have someones experiences at a dealer gagged because the host just happens to own the brand of equipment mentioned?We're all on the right track, just got to find which direction the train is heading and get it moving.Bill

Charles

02-22-2000, 08:55 AM

I here the word "free forum" being thrown around. Well excuse me for disagreeing. Lol I pay aol $19.95 month for access. I had to get the whole package with Bell South $50.00 per month because it is cheaper that way. I cannot afford to miss business calls while I am on the computer. Most of the time I transfer the phone to my cell phone $35.00 plus per month. I have call busy etc. All that is around $105.00 per month. While you are on the puter the calls have to go to voice mail or cell phone. i agree with the post that say most of us will be too exhausted and have alot less time to sit up at the puter as much during the busy season. my season start cranking up in early march usually.

GrassMaster

02-22-2000, 12:39 PM

Hello Everybody again!We have once again drifted of my original post. I just wanted feedback about why the(O.P.E.)-(Homer)Outdoor Power Equipment Manufactures & Trade Magazines will not give us the Internet Content Providers any kind of support? All of you guys pay every dime of advertising dollars spent every time you buy parts or equipment! I think you should have more say on how your advertising dollars are spent.Homer The wheel will be one of the best investments you ever make besides those magnetic signs on your vehicles! Thank you for your offer, we appreciate it very much, you are a great person, but I did not ask for individuals to pay us, I wanted you guys to voice your opinions about the Manufactures giving most of their support to the Trade Magazines & neither will help contibute any at all to us with content sites on the Internet.Jeffclc Almost everybody has made it clear that they wouldn't pay. Forum Free Only, No Pay. AOL the big boys on the Internet has had a Lawn & Landscaping Forum up for years with very few going there. It takes a person like Chuck to build a forum this big & keeping it going. Who has more money Chuck or AOL? Chuck built this Forum with his personality! My forum is living proof that if you don't have great numbers that it want work. Everybody clings to the bigger forums. Thats where you get the best information.There is one on the newsgroups & it is dead, its been there I know since 1994. It takes a person like Chuck to make it happen!No sponsor is at risk advertising here, everybody has ideas, thoughts & complaints. If BORO or FONDA (sorry I can't spell the no sponsor us names right) had a banner up at the top of this page it would do nothing but get people clicking on their banners & getting them a highly targeted audience. We have made shure of the kind of traffic they would get!LOL if they want, for a small fee I will help them change their fancey sites to a info site like mine. That will help you guys.I truley think me & others would let it stay as it lay. No censorship! I have no price & I can't be bought. They try every day at my shop, make this warranty make that warranty. Take me out to lunch & bring that hand held blower with you & I'll get you a P.O. for those 22 $500 trimmers & 50 cases of oil. I have pride, If I'm naked with nothing, I still have my pride & the people I deal with on a day to day basis know this very well.I think you have seen this already. If this was going to happen & censorship was going to happen for the big boys it would have already taken place. So they could feel more comfortable before they come here. It would look real bad if we ever do get sponsors & then everything changes, the forum would die in a few months. They & every body else should understand this so very well.Charles AOL & Bell South are not even related to us in any shape form or fashion, they just provide a clear cut path to find us. There is plenty of people out there that have been online for years that still don't know we exist.With some of the attitudes a few people have on this forum, a manufactures rep would get eaten alive, even if he represented HOMEBLOW backpack blowers & have never sold one But have given a bunch free to members of this forum. That has already been proved.I just wanted to know why the power equipment manufactures & trade magazines will not give us support?You guys could have voiced your opinons that they could spend some on the sites on the Internet! Since that is where you spend more time than reading the magazines.This Forum will be going strong this summer!I just wanted you to voice your ideas! ---------- GrassMaster - Home: www.lawnservicing.com My Start Up Page www.lawnservicing.com/startup/

thelawnguy

02-22-2000, 02:51 PM

re: GrassMaster,my hunch is that the mfrs figure that you, myself, and most other professionals will be flipping thru the latest lawn and landscaping magazine over lunch at the steering wheel some June day rather than holed up in a corner of the den at a terminal clicking on their ad.Thats how my take on the situation is.Bill---------- "...half my brain tied behind my back, just to make it fair." R.L.

GrassMaster

02-22-2000, 05:07 PM

Hello Everybody:I just wanted people to say either they approved the way the manufactures & trade magazines were handling the advertising dollars now.OR they disapprove of the way it is handled & they would like for the manufactures & trade magazines to consider giving support to some of the web sites on the net because of their valuable content they provide. That was all I wanted! Was this asking to much of everybody?If there had been enough positive feedback towards them helping the content sites on the Internet, that would have helped us all dearly.WE would have been one step closer to having far better resources than we could dream of having now!I will try again later because this post got off track!---------- GrassMaster - Home: www.lawnservicing.com My Start Up Page www.lawnservicing.com/startup/

paul

02-22-2000, 08:32 PM

GrassMaster, You have really answered your own question. If there are 5 or 6 Mags with a circulation of 20,000 ea. and we have 500 users here. Not hard for OPE people to figure out.Now if you want them to come here and answer questions on their products, you have to talk to the sales reps. Over in the landscaping forum we have had one sales rep answer a question on patio base. I hope he posts more we will find out.When this forum has 2,000 users you will get the attention of OPE, Until then they all have web sites with e-mail.Now back to the DARK AGES ---------- paul

GrassMaster

02-22-2000, 09:34 PM

Hello:Wrong answer, I have made it so simple that if I go any further I will have answered it! 500 users & how many watchers 3,000 or more yes probably more, I know these kind of things. This is enough to justify advertising dollars! They pay a mag $1,000's to place a ad so 10,000 will see it. My site not including my tiny forum gets 7500 + hits by unique visitors a month. The OPE manufactures & trade magazines do not support any sites that I'm aware of besides the Magazines.Does everybody approve of the way they spend our advertising dollars or should they do some support on the internet?This question will be asked later. Not on this post again. I would close the thread if I could there has been more damage than good.---------- GrassMaster - Home: www.lawnservicing.com My Start Up Page www.lawnservicing.com/startup/

Charles

02-22-2000, 10:57 PM

Grassmaster, I went back and read some of your first post. Scrrrrrrreeeeaaammm. Whew!!! I feel better. It rambles and makes sense in places.I can't even get through all of it. I am only commenting about it because the more arrogant this post has become with each of your postings. Just because we buy a product. Doesn't mean we own stock in their company and can advise them on the way they should advertise. Just because we buy their product doesn't mean they are doing us some big favor by selling it to us. And to on this forum we sometime advise people not to buy a certain product. We are not hear to help OPEs out. We are hear to read honest opinions on certain any products the pertain to our business. And too just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they are wrong. Iam sure if they thought these sight were a good way to advertise they would do it. No amount of wishful thinking is going to make it so.

HOMER

02-22-2000, 11:20 PM

Not trying to be a smart ass Grassmaster, but you need to take a break or your gonna blow out a vein or something. Is it that big of a deal?Homer

PLS

02-22-2000, 11:25 PM

Hmmm, It takes a while to get all the way through this one. The manufactures love to make money. It's the purpose they are in business to start with. If they thought it was worth while at this time to advertise here, and get the return on their money spent. They would do so. As far as a membership to this forum or any other, It would be the beginning of the end. I agree these guys need some $$$ for their effort, but it needs to come from advertizers.

moonarrow

02-23-2000, 01:05 AM

grassmaster, Iappreciate what you are trying to say here, and understand whee you are coming from. I think it would be nice if the mags at least gave these forums recognition and if they had reps posting. nad if the mags at least advertise cause some of the new guy don't now about some of them and what bad could come of it. as for as tne manufacturers it is a risk for them but if the mags could sell more subs. by advertising then the manf. would get mor publicity. try that point of view with them. I also want to thank Chuck for this forum it has been very educational and also to Eric for his site and chat room a lot of fun. Also phil I've missed you not posting hope to hear more from you you have a lot of valuable info for us . thank a lot to all of those who post withe questions and answers.---------- Dale moonarrow@hotmail.com Southern lawn and Landscape

Nilsson Associates

02-23-2000, 11:16 AM

Thanks Dale for pointing out like the others that the forum has many contributors who possess valuable information. I tried to make a case for the users of this forum to support it ... I think some people feel that they are supporting the forum by posting to it ... which is time consuming ... but widely appreciated. I guess if this forum were "absent" posters would find another forum,and congregate there as long as it too were free. But the green industry in general doesn't support itself .. in its own interests. The numbers of people who belong to state and national trade organizations is appalingly low as well. Every man for himself? Perhaps, but forums like this one contradict that concept because of the open sharing of ideas. All who post here are to be applauded for their untiring efforts. There are a lot of helpful people around who derive satisfaction in knowing that they made a difference. Lot to be said for that.But going to my earlier point, stand alone forums like this are unlikely to attract the support of advertisers ... due to the narrow content. Not that a lot of subjects aren't covered, it's narrow in content when compared to content and the promotional ability of the major magazines ... which you must admit are doing a superative job in bringing an extremely wide variety of information to their readers and viewers. The amount of time and talent it takes each month to put together an issue is supported by advertisers ... since it must be. I wonder too if you could only receive a national publication by paying for a subscription ... how many would subscribe? Advertisers must advertise somewhere, but you can't blame them for wanting to spend ad dollars in the best place.Trade magazines (in the mail) and extensive websites on your screen give the national trade publishers the marketing edge that they earned. Take another look at Lawn & Landscape Magazine, consider the amount of work that goes into every issue. Magazines like these really are the "authority", really are the dependable sources of countless thousands of pieces of information. Needless to say, they deserve and have earned the support of advertisers.Not to belittle this site, but compare it to the scope and depth of a Lawn & Landscape Mag. Forums have their place ... and like I said before ... a forums place is very similar to the "place" where Public Radio and TV resides ... a lessor appeal to the wider audiences is what it is ... nonetheless it has a "place" ... And ... that's why if this forum were to support it with (money) this forum could bring you programs, comments, buying cooperatives ... things you can't envision that will undoubtedly help any person who visits here.Think outside of the box ... think "cooperatives" ... think lowering your insurance costs ... think of group purchasing ... think of the power a buying group could have. It takes money to make money, everyone would agree with that. I still contend that if the great number of people who come here would use some far reaching "vision" as to what this site "could become" would see and appreciate the wisdom of what I'm saying.Let me give you some examples of what I mean some "what ifs"1. What if .. each person posting here were to "pool" their insurance into a group policy?2. What if .. each person here were to post their equipment purchases into a "collective pool" of intended purchases where suppliers could then "bid" for these "deals"?3. What if this forum offered "benefits" to members ... discounts ... like any other member group enjoys.4. What if because of benefits (dollar benefits) this forum grew to thousands of members? Would a group of thousands have better purchasing power that a few hundred.5. What if this forum used its "numbers" to go beyond just exchanging information and were to position itself to reduce business costs?Now does Chuck want this forum to become a "membership thing" I don't know. But you know that the things I'm talking about are very doable. However, it takes "seed money" to make things happen ... just like it takes seed money each month in a steady stream to make any professional media ... professional.That's the end of my essay, thank youPhil Nilsson

CLM1

03-02-2000, 08:25 AM

This is just another opinion to this lengthy post. I agree with alot of what has been said by everyone here. Not everything, but alot. Again this is my own opinion. If Chuck would post a P.O. box address here I would gladly send him a check as a donation to help him out. This site has been a great asset to myself and to others, from the guy who started his biz this a.m. to the 30 yr. veteran. However, I agree that the manufacturers can pick and choose as they see fit. This forum has had some pretty childish/unprofessional discussions with some personal jabs being taken. As a so called "professional" if you were to be associated w/a group what group would you rather have your name asscoiated with? The professionals or the immature,rude and crude "non-professionals." As I stated, only an opinion. Thanks to all who provide the useful information I've been able to "tap" here. It is of great help. Keep up the good work Chuck! Some of us really do appreciate the fine job you do.