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View Full Version : Toro 72" Dihatsu 27hp Diesel Review..Finally


AdamChrap
07-12-2007, 05:41 PM
So I have had allot of people send me PM's about how I like my mower and I am sorry I have been way to busy to be on here lately, Now that we haven't had a decent rain in about a month I have time *Sigh* so here we go!

It has a 27hp Dihatsu Diesel and a 72" Deck I paid about $15,000 after tax.
It has been a full year now and my feelings are mixed. I have had some problems but they have all been taken care of. I have almost 600hrs on it now. Also remember I mow some insane hills (no joke lots of people say that but I have had other local LCO see me and ask how the heck I do that) and I mow allot of what I call "Industrial accounts" big, rough, and tall lawns, Lots of bouncing and vibrating.

Pros:

Fast Fast Fast Fast!!!!!!! This thing scoots!

The cut is great! I had been getting a bad cut lately but figured out that the deck belt had got so lose my blade pulleys were slipping on the belt. ( In 11 years of mowing I have never had one do this, they always break first)

Lots of power (on flat Ground we will get in to this in the cons)

great fuel economy!! I'd say about 1 Gallon a hr

Cons:

No power on hills, this thing is a huge heavy tank! On steep hills it sometimes will not make it to the top without stopping and letting the engine catch up. But listen these are real steep hills! But also on very long hills that are moderately steep it will slow down a bit before you get to the top.

I don't like mule belt setup, It has double belts, they twist them quite a bit and they are very low in the back corners, get sticks and junk in them. I think have put on about 4 or 5 belts

I had my right wheel motor almost totally disconnect from the machine, The bolts were obviously not tightened properly at the factory

The welds that hold the brackets for the right fuel tank broke and I lost the tank! They offered to replace the whole frame (due to the fact that the welds were to the frame and made a small rip in part of the frame) I said that was unnecessary. They only had 60" mowers and I would be screwed using a 60" for a week or 2.

Z-Stand = Useless

The suspension seat broke at about 500hrs but they replaced it

I don't like the way they keep the covers on that cover the deck belts, they were out and I have had them off since about 50hrs because they rattled like all get out.

Air filter intake is on the same side as the grass discharge!!!!! When we check the filter once a week we clean out allot of grass, in dry conditions you have to check it 2 or 3 times a week.

Had a leak in one of the hydro lines, they replaced



So all in all here is how I feel.

If I didn't have a very very good dealer (which I do) it would have got ugly but they took care of it all and I have really not had any major problems after about 200hrs. If you need a very versatile machine to do lots of different things go elsewhere (The 72" 31hp gas engine I think, the gas engine make the machine much much much lighter so in the long run has much more power to weight ratio) If you are looking for a machine to-do lots of big accounts with small to moderate hills this think will make you money! Oh and make sure you have a good dealer!

Would I do it over? Hmmm.....I think I would look hard at the scag 72" 32hp Turbo Diesel because of the extra power but they are about $2000 more, I would consider the 31hp Toro Gas, It is about $5000 cheaper but you can eat the up fast when it is using twice the gas and it wont have the longevity of the diesel. I guess it all depends on what you need.

OK......Questions?

AdamChrap
07-12-2007, 09:55 PM
Sorry forgot to mention I also have had to replace the pump drive belt and the water pump belt. Also the pin to set the deck height has a little ball in it the pops up and holds it in place instead of a pin and the little ball falls out after a few hours, I have had 4 of them now and I just gave up.

Quiky One
07-12-2007, 10:08 PM
What do you mean you have to stop and wait for the motor to catch up on the hills? Have any pics of these hills?

Thanks for the great review. I plan on making one as soon as I get enough hours on my Hustler. Always nice to have resources like this.

Jason

Boonman
07-12-2007, 10:16 PM
The rattling has to be from the engine. My 23 Kubota is fantastic.

AdamChrap
07-12-2007, 11:59 PM
What do you mean you have to stop and wait for the motor to catch up on the hills? Have any pics of these hills?

Thanks for the great review. I plan on making one as soon as I get enough hours on my Hustler. Always nice to have resources like this.

Jason

I mean the engine will bog out, Even with a 27hp diesel it has tons of torque but the machine is just so dang heavy. I don't have pics but pics never do justice to hills. Besides I'd have all kinds of people telling me I am crazy and gona die. I mow plenty of hills that make your front end float while you go up and that is a big deal considering how big and heavy this deck is.

AdamChrap
07-13-2007, 12:05 AM
The rattling has to be from the engine. My 23 Kubota is fantastic.

No it is the guards because I toke them off and it is fine. The little rubber pieces under the clips wear out, How many hrs on yours and what kind of mowing you do? what size deck? I used a 60" with the 23 kubota and it preforms much better then the 72" with the 27hp Diahatsu because the 60" with the 23hp kubota engine is a much smaller and lighter machine all together

Distorted
07-13-2007, 12:52 AM
I have the 31hp on last year's Exmark 66", and I get about .9 hr/gal from it (level ground). I love that engine. I wanted a diesel when I bought it, but the economics just don't support that choice, I think. The deisel engine will outlive the rest of the machine, but what does that get you?

AdamChrap
07-13-2007, 01:08 AM
I have the 31hp on last year's Exmark 66", and I get about .9 hr/gal from it (level ground). I love that engine. I wanted a diesel when I bought it, but the economics just don't support that choice, I think. The deisel engine will outlive the rest of the machine, but what does that get you?

First that is awesome for a gas engine, But like I said I do allot of hills too and that is a average.

I'm not so sure the rest of the mower won't last. we have our original exmark and it is still used everyday, it is 12 years old and has well over 5000hrs on it (3000hrs on second engine) we have fixed things but nothing to serious but the engine

Boonman
07-13-2007, 06:25 AM
No it is the guards because I toke them off and it is fine. The little rubber pieces under the clips wear out, How many hrs on yours and what kind of mowing you do? what size deck? I used a 60" with the 23 kubota and it preforms much better then the 72" with the 27hp Diahatsu because the 60" with the 23hp kubota engine is a much smaller and lighter machine all together

Yep, it's a 60/23 Toro. I have almost 400 hours on it, and I grease the entire machine religiously every 25 hours. It's just the way my route works through the week, 25 hours and the machine is back in mid week. And again at the end of the week. Meaning the guards get pulled at least twice a week. I have no odd rattles. That's what I was getting at. The 72/27 is exactly 225 #'s more than my machine. I am 225#'s myself oddly enough. I don't know what y'all or your crew tip the scales at, but that's not much weight to be making it an anchor. I do notice that your machine has larger pumps, but smaller wheel motors. Which could be a slight problem in the power department on hills. I too get on hills that have rolled other rigs. Not ZTR's, but customers tractors and such. A couple where leaning as far forward is a must. My machine will flinch, but it doesn't bog out uncontrolably. The difference in a naturally aspirated diesel is that the recovery rate isn't as quick on a sharp load. Such as full sticking it, up a hill. If the mower can't pull it at full stick, back off a touch. It's the tradeoff for diesel efficiencly. Your still going faster than 80% of the ZTR's out there. These machines fly in the ground speed department. Just because you can't travel at full stick up a hill doesn't mean there's a problem necessarilly. The height adjustment, yep, take one of the several old pins you have, and drill the detent ball hole all the way through. then tether a hitch pin to it, and stick that through the hole. I been using that with no difficulty or failure since the machine was 4 hours old. I have had both wheel motor hydraulic fittings replaced, they were leaking. I also recently had the front pump lines replaced-(left wheel pump) due to the fact they were leaking. I also had the SAME problem with the wheel motor almost flying off. Except mine was the left side. Tightened the nuts, and all is well. I have a 90 degree gearbox which drives the deck, no crazy belt setup. I have yet to replace a belt. And the gearbox, which was touted on my particular machine as being a possible failure point is holding up fine, has lost nor burnt up any oil, and is as tight as the day I got it. My machine did not come with a suspension seat, or the Z-stand. Both of which I could care less. My dealer tried to sell me a suspension seat for $300, but the factory seat is plenty comfy. I haven't run your particular machine, but I have run one of it's twins/cousins whatever you wanna call it. It seems to be comparable, feel wise, although noticeably larger. I think you have a great machine! FWIW, my 23 burns a calculated .7 GPH. Gotta love that!!! And I burn off road equipment fuel, which I purchase for $2.20/gallon. :clapping: I love it!!! :cool2:

AdamChrap
07-13-2007, 08:25 AM
Wow, glad to see you are so happy. I do a full grease about every 20-30hrs.
I'm not complaining about not being able to go full stick up the hill, I just wana be able to go up it period. I know what you mean about how to go up the hill but I have tried everything and know what I am doing because I have been doing it a long time (to long it seams sometimes lol)
As far as the weight I am 260 and are you sure about that weight because I thought my dealer said it was a much bigger difference.

tomo
07-13-2007, 10:06 AM
hello,
Adamchrap -- toro dealer i enquired with about purchase installs slightly different wheel motors which gives higher torque and less top speed ,for the hilly areas . This particular dealer sells the most 597 in australia .
I Know the pieces of rubber u have mentioned for the deck belt covers and also the cheap clips they have retaining them which fail also .All other turbo force deck users have the same items fail ,at least the ones i have spoken to .
There is a protection plate for the undercarriage available .
Fuel consumption ??? Mine is .8 gallon very light conditions very rare this occurs ,mainly around 1 gallon in 90 % time . Very heavy cuting just over 1gallon .
***question does your radiater screen have gaps in the top corners
if so does your rad fill up with debris [judging by your dusty conditions if the gaps were there the rad will have some debris on it ?]

In theory the 597 with 2x belts from the engine to the deck pulley will transmit greater torque to the deck belt .The kub 593 only has a single belt system . The von ruden box on the 593 is major $$$ when compared to twin belt system

Love the z stand ,what do u not like about it [does not liftb high enough ??]
I own the 597 with 60 deck wooosh space shuttle speed compared to my walkers ha ha [its amazing where the toro fits ha ha ,typically most of the walker jobs ha ha ] so comfortable and fast

tomo:waving:

ps yes i did enquire with u by pm late last year

tomo
07-13-2007, 10:43 AM
hello the deck height pin with the spring loaded ball has failed on other peoples machines i have spoken to . Mine i ok currently
Adamchrap suggestion which applies to all t/force decks ,as i noticed in your previous posts /pics u do cut some thick wet grass . Remove the adjustable baffle ,which gives u a larger dis charge opening . The dealer i spoke about earlier suggested this , he sells 95% 72 inch decks . I personally have not tried it .

Does any body have oil consumption with the diahatsu /kubota
My oil level goes from the full mark to the add mark in approx 50--60 hours
I am returning for warranty [only done 80 hrs ][although near new this still is to much imo]
What is your oil consumption ???

tomo:waving:

South Florida Lawns
07-13-2007, 06:06 PM
Hey that mower sounds like a beast. I got a small Toro Z master 44" 19hp and I love it. Its a 2005 and I got a little over 1000hrs on it. I too have had my fair share of problems including that deck pin falling apart. Toro Dealers have the best service I think, because even when they are 2 weeks behind they always get me done in one day.

Boonman
07-17-2007, 12:05 AM
I have minimal oil consumption. I have added about .5 quart total between 150 hour changes. Which is just fine. The weight, is precisely what Toro listed on their website, and is in my paperwork as well. Maybe they are wrong, I have never scaled personally, and I'm sure wierder things have happened!! As far as just being able to get the machine up the hills, I have yet to find one I couldn't climb. It's usually a traction issue, or the fact that the front end won't stay down. Which, on a Toro Z, is tough to break the casters. Except on a diesel machine. There are a few properties that the casters dance almost the entire way up the hill. it's pretty steep. :weightlifter: And I shouldn't be on them. Oh well. Gotta get it done. The deck guards, they have been just fine on my machine, although, I am the only one who takes care of it as well, I don't know your situation, as employees can be fatal to a machines welfare. :hammerhead: I love my machine. It works splendidly, and does everything I throw at it.

muxx
07-17-2007, 07:23 AM
I also have had two of these machines with Exmark. I still have one. I have had major motor repair or replace around 1500 hours on both. Longevity on this deisel is not what is expected. I guess it is so bad, exmark dropped the engine and went with a kubota. I may try a Dixie with a 39hp deisel. around $12,500.00

AdamChrap
07-17-2007, 09:44 AM
hello,

***question does your radiater screen have gaps in the top corners
if so does your rad fill up with debris [judging by your dusty conditions if the gaps were there the rad will have some debris on it ?]


Love the z stand ,what do u not like about it [does not liftb high enough ??]

tomo:waving:



I'm not sure about the gaps, I'd have to look but I haven't had much trouble with deris on the radiator.

I hat e the z stand because:
1. Way to short
2. Pin comes out and at 12mph had it try to stand me up!! :cry:
3. We do our maintenance on a smooth concrete floor so it won't catch and pick it up anyways, You need dirt or a crack in the floor or something for it to work! :hammerhead:

tomo
07-17-2007, 10:43 AM
I'm not sure about the gaps, I'd have to look but I haven't had much trouble with deris on the radiator.

I hat e the z stand because:
1. Way to short
2. Pin comes out and at 12mph had it try to stand me up!! :cry:
3. We do our maintenance on a smooth concrete floor so it won't catch and pick it up anyways, You need dirt or a crack in the floor or something for it to work! :hammerhead:

hello, oil consumption between services ??
What is your service interval 50, 75, 100 hr ??

tomo:waving:

tomo
07-17-2007, 11:08 AM
I also have had two of these machines with Exmark. I still have one. I have had major motor repair or replace around 1500 hours on both. Longevity on this deisel is not what is expected. I guess it is so bad, exmark dropped the engine and went with a kubota. I may try a Dixie with a 39hp deisel. around $12,500.00

hello , if u are aware of the specific problems u had with the engine it would be appreciated if u could further explain the issues u had .

The reason i waited to purchase the toro 597 [second generation exmark xp ]was there at least in this country many up grades over the xp version .
higher top speed
stronger deck
apparently improvement to the mule belt system

The marketing of toro and exmark is strange to say the least .I would assume it is to be different between the 2 brands .
Now that toro has the grounds master ztr with the 28 and 28 turbo the 27 in the commercial 597 range may stay 4 a while .
The ultimate line up of course would be the 23/25 593 toro/exmark and the 597 to be upgraded to the 28 kubota .
There is an issue though as some people may be aware
Exmark appear to be very responsive to customers
Toro on the other hand is appear typically slow example 66 inch deck option

tomo:waving:

mowtech
07-17-2007, 11:27 AM
Wow, glad to see you are so happy. I do a full grease about every 20-30hrs.
I'm not complaining about not being able to go full stick up the hill, I just wana be able to go up it period. I know what you mean about how to go up the hill but I have tried everything and know what I am doing because I have been doing it a long time (to long it seams sometimes lol)
As far as the weight I am 260 and are you sure about that weight because I thought my dealer said it was a much bigger difference.

I believe that there have been some reports of this Briggs/Daihatsu diesel engine being built with the injection timing slightly off resulting in it not putting out full power. I would suggest that you have the timing checked to make sure it is correct.

AdamChrap
07-17-2007, 03:41 PM
[QUOTE=tomo;1899409]

Now that toro has the grounds master ztr with the 28 and 28 turbo the 27 in the commercial 597 range may stay 4 a while .


[QUOTE]

28 Turbo? Is this in the US?

pugs
07-17-2007, 05:12 PM
28 Turbo? Is this in the US?

I think he is talking about the Groundsmaster 7200/7210 which comes with a 28HP NA Diesel or 35HP Turbo Diesel

Mark Oomkes
07-26-2007, 11:37 AM
I also have had two of these machines with Exmark. I still have one. I have had major motor repair or replace around 1500 hours on both. Longevity on this deisel is not what is expected. I guess it is so bad, exmark dropped the engine and went with a kubota. I may try a Dixie with a 39hp deisel. around $12,500.00

Ditto, I have 3 of the Daihatsu's and they are junk. So far 2 of them have had cracked heads from overheating--normal wear and tear. Should've known B&S would screw this up just like they use to with their gassers years ago. Guess that's why their known as Briggs and ScrapIron.

hello , if u are aware of the specific problems u had with the engine it would be appreciated if u could further explain the issues u had .

The reason i waited to purchase the toro 597 [second generation exmark xp ]was there at least in this country many up grades over the xp version .
higher top speed
stronger deck
apparently improvement to the mule belt system

The marketing of toro and exmark is strange to say the least .I would assume it is to be different between the 2 brands .
Now that toro has the grounds master ztr with the 28 and 28 turbo the 27 in the commercial 597 range may stay 4 a while .
The ultimate line up of course would be the 23/25 593 toro/exmark and the 597 to be upgraded to the 28 kubota .
There is an issue though as some people may be aware
Exmark appear to be very responsive to customers
Toro on the other hand is appear typically slow example 66 inch deck option

tomo:waving:

See above. Buy the new ones with a Kubota. Run away from anything with a Daihatsu.

I believe that there have been some reports of this Briggs/Daihatsu diesel engine being built with the injection timing slightly off resulting in it not putting out full power. I would suggest that you have the timing checked to make sure it is correct.

THis is correct as well. Have it checked, it should be under warranty, if not, ***** to high heaven to get them to cover it.

tomo
07-26-2007, 03:56 PM
hello, designed and built by toyota/diahatsu ,sold and serviced thru briggs dealers . Ditto IMO brriggs has no place in the diesel area .

Specific issues with diahatsu engine ??
Cylinder head cracking u would have to assume there was an issue with the cooling system ?? leaking or blocked radiator etc
The cylinder head has had design changes such as the pre combustion chambers are now part of the head maybe to prevent falling out or cracking in that area ??

tomo:waving:
ps any other info would be great thanks

Mark Oomkes
07-26-2007, 04:13 PM
That would be seriously testing my memory. ;)

One of them was losing coolant, not sure how long because I had an incompetent idiot for a 'mechanic'. Started watching it after I fired him, was running it by my house and suddenly there was a large cloud of grayish smoke and no more power. Still haven't seen the final bill on that one.

The first was leaking oil, I think?? Or it may have been an external coolant leak. They got into it and found the head warped or cracked, whichever, same basic outcome.

POS engines. Lucky me, I have a third one that I can look forward to. :cry:

tomo
07-27-2007, 12:19 AM
That would be seriously testing my memory. ;)

One of them was losing coolant, not sure how long because I had an incompetent idiot for a 'mechanic'. Started watching it after I fired him, was running it by my house and suddenly there was a large cloud of grayish smoke and no more power. Still haven't seen the final bill on that one.

The first was leaking oil, I think?? Or it may have been an external coolant leak. They got into it and found the head warped or cracked, whichever, same basic outcome.

POS engines. Lucky me, I have a third one that I can look forward to. :cry:


hello, as u have explained not the engines fault ,operator problem :gunsfirin

***Cooling systems require pressure testing every service .****

Another way to limit this is first,
fire the worker [optional] and / or
fit a saftey device that shuts engine down when it reaches a certain over temperature .This is standard on heavy diesel equipment --MOWER MAKERS HAVE ALOT TO LEARN !!

Small Engine shops in my area rarely do anything above 20hp and never work on diesel ,liquid cooled engines or efi

I have personally witnessed the outcome of employees overheating 500,000 to 1,000,000 equipment :hammerhead: :hammerhead:
Same employees were also filling cooling system with ground water [not filtered or treated ]:hammerhead:

tomo:waving:

Mark Oomkes
07-27-2007, 07:02 AM
It was the operator's fault for letting it go so long. It was not their fault for the problem starting in the first place. The second one went too long because the idiot didn't pay attention. The first one had nothing to do with operator error.

It is obvious from these problems but especially by Toro who owns Exmark switching to Kubota engines, that the Daihatsu engine was not what they had hoped for longevity-wise. Especially when you consider that Kubota is a direct competitor of Toro.

tomo
07-27-2007, 08:50 PM
:waving: It was the operator's fault for letting it go so long. It was not their fault for the problem starting in the first place. The second one went too long because the idiot didn't pay attention. The first one had nothing to do with operator error.

It is obvious from these problems but especially by Toro who owns Exmark switching to Kubota engines, that the Daihatsu engine was not what they had hoped for longevity-wise. Especially when you consider that Kubota is a direct competitor of Toro.

hello, With my 20 year mechanical experience background i can truly understand your grief .

Unfortunately liquid cooled either gas or diesel ,THE BIGGEST THREAT TO THERE LONGEVITY IS A COOLING SYSTEM LEAK .

Exactly the reason i suggested an overheating alarm or low water type etc but it amazes me why they r not fitted.

There r many diahatsu equiped toro machines operating within australia very succesfully .
As u have stated and i agree the engine of choice would be a kubota .
I expect the 593 to stay with the kub 900cc engine .The 597 is different the expectations for this would be to drop the diahatsu and upgrade it to the kubota 1.1ltr . [the contract for the diahatsu supply will need to expire first]
TOYOTA WHO OWNS DIAHATSU do marketing very aggresively ,this cannot be under estimated .
Toro 593 kub 900cc
Toro 597 diahatsu 950cc we hope upgrades to 1.1ltr kub
Remember the grounds master ztr has the 1.1ltr ,,and the 1.1ltr turbo

Any lesser changes than what i listed above would be extremely disappointing
but it is toro and they do not listen as much as exmark does

tomo :waving: