CAT 297C vs Gehl CTL 70

[qps]

Trying both...really all three...the gehl is a takeuhoouchie...or least that's my understanding....:weightlifter:

[mrusk]

Both machines look good!

[turboawd]

so which one is better?;)

[qps]

so which one is better?;)

Ran them today...and will again tomm.....stay tuned....

[AWJ Services]

You need some teeth on those buckets too do some digging.

The Gehl is a Takeuchi.

Whats the price difference?

[AWJ Services]

I will add the Cat is better compared too the CTL 80

[t190]

shows how great cats u/c is, you already got a stick stuck in it

[Fieldman12]

I see the stick your talking about T190. I would say the gehl is a proven design thanks to Takeuchi.

[Fieldman12]

I hope Cat has the undercarriage worked out. There is allot of wheeled Cats out there and allot of MTL's. Cat's main weak link is that undercarriage and I hope no w its fixed.

[Scag48]

If Cat doesn't deliver a decent undercarriage with the C series, their MTL sales will be sunk. It will be a repeat of Deere's 200 series, look what happened to Deere's reputation with that disaster. I've spent a lot of time in a Gehl 5640 and even though it doesn't have pilot controls the t-bar controls are tollerable, the grunt the machine puts down is ridiculously awesome, and the center of gravity is much, much lower. Dad has a 246B on rent for a month and pound for pound our 216 will outwork the 246. I'm not impressed with the 246 at all, not enough power, center of gravity is very high, machine feels very unstable on uneven ground. It'll lift what we need it to lift, but it has no "jump", you mash on the pedal in tough situations and nothing happens. Incredibly disappointed, our 277B with the same engine would eat the 246 and spit it right out. I'm beginning to like Gehl more and more every time I run my buddy's 5640. I'm curious as to what Gehl's pilot controls are like, that would be the ultimate. We would definately buy a Gehl, except for the nearest dealer is well over 5 hours away. The CT70 looks to be an awesome machine, Takeuchi's proven undercarriage and balls out power. I'd like to give one a run one of these days.

[Fieldman12]

You know for the life of me I can't figure out how Cat got in the shape they did with the undercarriage. I mean if any company out there knows undercarriages it should be Cat. They have loads and loads of experience with dozers and rubber tracked tractors. I feel some how they trusted ASV a little too much. Cat should have looked close at what they was buying and did tons more testing. As far as Deere they are quickly getting a good name in the skid steer and the CTL department. Since the 200 Series II and later they have been doing well. Even the 200 series machines that are the original models I would not be too afraid of since by now all the bugs have been worked out.

[Fieldman12]

I would bet the Gehl will be cheaper to own which is a good thing, but may also have less resale. This is something you may want to consider. If I was in the market for new I think I would have a new Case CTL brought out to test and while at it a Deere and a Bobcat if your going to spend some money like this.

[qps]

First impression was the gehl's cab is massive..almost to big if you ask me...the a/c is mounted on the outside behind the cab...just waiting for something to crush it...power is good except no anti-stall, I've killed it a dozen times so far...pilot controls are o.k....the cat's cab is much better and the new E/H controls are sweet...the undercarriage is much more open than the B series, I'll take some more pic's today to show....the gehl would have to be priced much cheaper to win me over...ran both in dusty conditions and the pressurized cabs perform good...the ride is not even close.(cat wins hands down)..the gehl just seems...old school....but after my POS 257B I'm taking a hard look at all of them..........

[AWJ Services]

but may also have less resale.

Do some web searches for TL140 or the Gehl CTL 70 and you will find the used market is not flooded with the machines which in turns holds there resale.
They sell for around 45k with a cab new.
You will be hard pressed too find one of there machines 3 years old that has lost half it's value.

[AWJ Services]

the a/c is mounted on the outside behind the cab...just waiting for something to crush it.

That is just a filter box.
The critical a/c components are well protected.
The Gehl's cab Will not control the dust as well as it should.
The undercarriage will never be bothered by any amount of mud.
It needs virtually no maint or cleaning.
It will lift and push with anything in it's price range.
They are dirt simple and easy too work on.
Best of all the machine with cab can be purchased here in Atlanta for 42k plus tax.


the gehl would have to be priced much cheaper to win me over.

What is the suggested retail for the Cat?
I bet there will be 15 k difference between the machines.


The Cat looks slick and appears too have the right upgrades but with the Maint cost of the undercarriage coupled with poor resale and not too mention the very High new sale prices of their compact equipment it makes me wonder how they sale them.


but after my POS 257B I'm taking a hard look at all of them

That makes good "Business sense".

You have too approach each purchase from the Business and financial standpoint.
The color of the machine is unimportant.
What matters is if the unit will make money.
That means too stay in an operating condition with a maint schedule that your company can afford.
The dealers service is important ,but most skid steers out there just do not need that much service in the first couple years of use.
My point being that some will purchase a machine basing service of a dealer above the units ability too produce work.
They have a dealer with a better cheaper unit( but they are several hours away) that will produce more work but they will still purchase the wrong machine because of fear of lost time working because of the distance too the dealer.

Good luck either way.

[dozerman21]

Is the Gehl cab pressurized? I think Cat will have a big advantage on cabs until others roll out their versions later on.

The undercarriage will never be bothered by any amount of mud.
It needs virtually no maint or cleaning.

The mud we get here will bogg any machine down when it gets to a certain time of the year. It doesn't matter if it's a RC-30 or a D11. The base gets saturated and if the top is wet, you're in for a slow day. The question is, how quick the tracks will clog up and bogg the machine down? Some are much better than others. The Cats that I've worked next to seem to bogg down faster, and guys have a harder time cleaning out the tracks at the end of the day. That turns into frozen tracks the next day and you're machine won't move if you store it outside. I know QPS said the new U/C is more open. That may help. If you aren't working through the winter months this may not be as big of a deal.

What is the suggested retail for the Cat?
I bet there will be 15 k difference between the machines.

I agree. I bet the Cat will be several thousand more than a Takeuchi TL 150. I think they will throw some salt on the C Series while it's the newest thing out, and also while they have what sounds like a superior cab. The B Series weren't exactly cheap.

First impression was the gehl's cab is massive..almost to big if you ask me...

That's what I thought when I have sat in a Gehl/TK.

QPS- If the prices were the same, I would buy the TK over Gehl, if nothing else than because of the roll up door. To me, that's a nice advantage. PM me if you need any info about our local TK/Case or Deere dealers. I may be able to point you in the right direction. Good luck and have fun playing with your toys!

[RockSet N' Grade]

I have researched resale values quite a bit. Gehl vs. Case - case has a higher resale. In fact, Case seems to hold their skid values higher across the board. Gehl does not have a pressurized cab. I too like the Takehoochi roll-up door and wish it would be standard equipment on all skids. I also wish drink holders and little storage areas would be nice inside the Gehl cabs......I am in the process of making a little custom unit to hold drinks, pen/paper, keys.......

[qps]

That is just a filter box.
The critical a/c components are well protected.
The Gehl's cab Will not control the dust as well as it should.
The undercarriage will never be bothered by any amount of mud.
It needs virtually no maint or cleaning.
It will lift and push with anything in it's price range.
They are dirt simple and easy too work on.
Best of all the machine with cab can be purchased here in Atlanta for 42k plus tax.




What is the suggested retail for the Cat?
I bet there will be 15 k difference between the machines.


The Cat looks slick and appears too have the right upgrades but with the Maint cost of the undercarriage coupled with poor resale and not too mention the very High new sale prices of their compact equipment it makes me wonder how they sale them.




That makes good "Business sense".

You have too approach each purchase from the Business and financial standpoint.
The color of the machine is unimportant.
What matters is if the unit will make money.
That means too stay in an operating condition with a maint schedule that your company can afford.
The dealers service is important ,but most skid steers out there just do not need that much service in the first couple years of use.
My point being that some will purchase a machine basing service of a dealer above the units ability too produce work.
They have a dealer with a better cheaper unit( but they are several hours away) that will produce more work but they will still purchase the wrong machine because of fear of lost time working because of the distance too the dealer.

Good luck either way.

It has two fans and coolant lines running on the outside, I believe its more than a filter box...

[qps]

Is the Gehl cab pressurized? I think Cat will have a big advantage on cabs until others roll out their versions later on.



The mud we get here will bogg any machine down when it gets to a certain time of the year. It doesn't matter if it's a RC-30 or a D11. The base gets saturated and if the top is wet, you're in for a slow day. The question is, how quick the tracks will clog up and bogg the machine down? Some are much better than others. The Cats that I've worked next to seem to bogg down faster, and guys have a harder time cleaning out the tracks at the end of the day. That turns into frozen tracks the next day and you're machine won't move if you store it outside. I know QPS said the new U/C is more open. That may help. If you aren't working through the winter months this may not be as big of a deal.



I agree. I bet the Cat will be several thousand more than a Takeuchi TL 150. I think they will throw some salt on the C Series while it's the newest thing out, and also while they have what sounds like a superior cab. The B Series weren't exactly cheap.



That's what I thought when I have sat in a Gehl/TK.

QPS- If the prices were the same, I would buy the TK over Gehl, if nothing else than because of the roll up door. To me, that's a nice advantage. PM me if you need any info about our local TK/Case or Deere dealers. I may be able to point you in the right direction. Good luck and have fun playing with your toys!

I assume your talking about MacDonald???? they tried to rip me a new one on a TB53R quote......don't trust them.....:hammerhead:

[AWJ Services]

It has two fans and coolant lines running on the outside, I believe its more than a filter box.

I will admit I am not as familar with the Gehl version as the Takeuchi but my condensor and fan is nestled underneath the boom arm at the back of the machine surrounded by the body.


The mud we get here will bogg any machine down when it gets to a certain time of the year. It doesn't matter if it's a RC-30 or a D11. The base gets saturated and if the top is wet, you're in for a slow day. The question is, how quick the tracks will clog up and bogg the machine down? Some are much better than others. The Cats that I've worked next to seem to bogg down faster, and guys have a harder time cleaning out the tracks at the end of the day. That turns into frozen tracks the next day and you're machine won't move if you store it outside. I know QPS said the new U/C is more open. That may help. If you aren't working through the winter months this may not be as big of a deal.


I was refering more too the ability of the Takeuchi track system being self cleaning.
We have tons of red clay that gets pretty mucky.
I have never had an instance were I had stop working because the tracks were clogged with mud too a point were the machine was slowed.

[ksss]

Tim,
Tell us what you think of the CAT. I think your the only one on this board to run a C series. Being a B series owner I would like to hear what you think of the upgrades. Granted the size your demoing and the size you own are not the same, but I am curious what your thoughts are.

The TK cab is big and I agree bigger than needed. It seems like it turns itself into a drum effect as far as noise after the machine gets some hours on them. It seems like all of TK's cabs are built the same. Basic, simple to the point of being rudimentary. That is not necessarily a bad thing. Depends on who you are and what your looking for. What I like about the CAT track system is the fact that it is quiet and vibration free.

[qps]

Hi Shane hope your season is going well, its so dry here in Indy I'm taking a beating on my landscaping maint. work...plenty of time to demo...if there was a huge price difference the Gehl might be an option, but after running it for a hour or so...it's exactly like you said...a drum effect, also a quick turn or bump and you could break a bone in that cab:laugh: ...not really a fair demo as the CAT is a 90hp machine, but other than my ears popping, the cab is as nice as I've seen and this thing is a hoss....granted the dry conditions here are ideal, it pushes and lifts fantastic, the TK does the same but with less contol at the pilots and very rough ride, but what the heck...if its 12-15K cheaper...its an option..the cat's electric over hydro..( lets see how it holds out in the long run) is a winner, most precise control I've ever used..I'm not really looking to purchase yet, but my 257B is a gutless wonder, and I would not buy a machine again with anything under 80hp...give it six months and see what people are saying about the CAT and maybe next spring I'll jump....

[qps]

Rest of photo's

[AWJ Services]

I see what you mean.

My condensor is insid the boom at the right rear inside were the Gehl nameplate is.

The Tackeuchi machines are noisy on the inside I will agree.

The ride is really not bad when the ground is not so hard from lack of rain.

They also run metal against metal on the rollers which virtually eliminates track damage from rocks getting in the undercarraige but transmits alot of harshness.

How do the 2 machines bucket curl power compare?

[qps]

CAT has seems to big stronger...the gehl without the anti-stall is a pain.....

[Fieldman12]

Well, Im a big Cat fan and like the looks on about everything on this machine but the undercarriage. I mean looking at it compared to the Gehl well it just looks plain cheap. Maybe it would look better in person I dont know. The parts dont like like there built out of very heavy material and the rollers appear to still be made out of rubber or simular material. The top sproket final drive looks like a nightmare waiting to happen. Looks like it would hold every piece of mud and sticks that it came across. The hole undercarriage just looks like it would fill full with material easily. Maybe Im being a little hard on Cat but to be honest I expected more from them.

[Fieldman12]

Maybe things would clean out better than I think since there is allot of open room. Just my first impression of it though it does not look like a good design. Yeah I want to see what it can do.

[qps]

Maybe things would clean out better than I think since there is allot of open room. Just my first impression of it though it does not look like a good design. Yeah I want to see what it can do.


Same here...gotta get it in the mud...it can't be any worst than the old undercarriage to clean out:hammerhead:

[Fieldman12]

I also noticed the Gehl is a radial lift and the Cat is a Vertical lift. Do you think you can get by with a Radial. About every new machine sold around here in the past several years has been a Vertical lift. I know the Radial are better for grading but the Verticals have come along way.

[zedosix]

I also noticed the Gehl is a radial lift and the Cat is a Vertical lift. Do you think you can get by with a Radial. About every new machine sold around here in the past several years has been a Vertical lift. I know the Radial are better for grading but the Verticals have come along way.


The gehl radial lift has the reach of most vertical lifts. The power is unbelievable and the view from the cab is panoramic compared to the cat.

[McKeeLand]

I ran the clt 70 this year when i was deciding what to buy, along with the cat 287B and 277B. the gehl was a beast of a machine and not doubt would be a very durable machine. how ever i felt like i was on our old MF track loader when i was on it. I defiantly needed my headphones. i ran it for about a week and them got back in another 277B and it was jumping in a cadilac. if i was sending this machine out with my crew to use i would defiantly go with the gehl, but for an owner operator the cat is so smooth and quite. i know here as long as your buying a another cat the cat dealer can make you an offer to good to refuse. i bought used and got a better interest rate than most company's offered on new.

[qps]

The gehl radial lift has the reach of most vertical lifts. The power is unbelievable and the view from the cab is panoramic compared to the cat.


Have you tried the C series...IMO the view is the same of both.....the cat doesn't jar your teeth loose like the gehl....

[AWJ Services]

After reading all these comments I think I need too get rid of the Takeuchi that gives no trouble ,but has a loud cab and a rough ride and get one of those Cats so I can eat my chicken wings and drink my tea while working.
All the complaints everyone had with the previous Cats seem to be solved and ride quality has seem too have replaced production and durabilty as needed items in a peice of equipment.
I guess my next purchase will be based off of the size of the tv screen.:hammerhead:

[qps]

After reading all these comments I think I need too get rid of the Takeuchi that gives no trouble ,but has a loud cab and a rough ride and get one of those Cats so I can eat my chicken wings and drink my tea while working.
All the complaints everyone had with the previous Cats seem to be solved and ride quality has seem too have replaced production and durabilty as needed items in a peice of equipment.
I guess my next purchase will be based off of the size of the tv screen.:hammerhead:


I guess you didn't read the part about give it six months and see how it holds up:rolleyes: ...these are just my opinions from running them side by side...have you?????..I would still like to try a deere and case....I gotta go...having direct tv installed on my new cat...
:cool2:

[crab]

and it keeps going.and going......

[AWJ Services]

I was kidding around a little.
LOL

[crab]

ya well you should try eating soup in my deere!

[AWJ Services]

these are just my opinions from running them side by side...have you?????

Actually my Cat guy called me today.DeJaVu huh.

[SiteSolutions]

I priced a smaller Cat MTL this spring and it was about 15 grand higher than what I was looking at on a new loaded Bobcat.

I may have posted this elsewhere but a friend who has both Bobcat and Cat machines in a busy construction co has told me how he had to have the U/C replaced in the Cat, three times!

I feel more productive with some added creature comforts on my new machine, and I bet the ride on the new Cats is heavenly. I guess it comes down to how often (if ever) you will be working with crushed limestone base. I would think the Cat (ASV) u/c would hold up ok if you keep it clean and don't make it eat gravel.

[qps]

I priced a smaller Cat MTL this spring and it was about 15 grand higher than what I was looking at on a new loaded Bobcat.

I may have posted this elsewhere but a friend who has both Bobcat and Cat machines in a busy construction co has told me how he had to have the U/C replaced in the Cat, three times!

I feel more productive with some added creature comforts on my new machine, and I bet the ride on the new Cats is heavenly. I guess it comes down to how often (if ever) you will be working with crushed limestone base. I would think the Cat (ASV) u/c would hold up ok if you keep it clean and don't make it eat gravel.


15K...wow....I agree with the cat problems mentioned, for 15K and can do without the plasma:laugh:

[iron peddler]

15k? that seems odd, the smaller frame machines are actually closer in price vs bobcat than the large frames....i agree on the cat u/c if you keep it clean and be mindful of what work surface you are on you will get good life....and sometimes it comes down to operator techiniques also.( don't shoot me guys, but counter rotating in loose materials is tough on any track system) if it is a owner operator situation the track life is very acceptable, but if you have a fleet i would suggest vts tracks.

[luckylawnboy]

did you buy the gehl? Im looking at a used 07 for $18000 it has 1100hrs ac/heat. Let me know any more info. How would it do pushing snow.

[SellingIron]

Looking at the pics I'm sure your pro cat. But if you are going to demo, you should at least try the bobcat T300 or T320 with Roller suspension. $10K cheaper...

[Lazer_Z]

Looking at the pics I'm sure your pro cat. But if you are going to demo, you should at least try the bobcat T300 or T320 with Roller suspension. $10K cheaper... You're a year+ too late bro, CAT won over everything else he demoed.