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Lohse's Lawn Service
07-15-2007, 03:51 PM
I'm in the market for a used 3/4 ton pick-up truck, preferably extended or crew cab. Anything probably from '99-'03. I'm looking for your input on which 3/4 ton will provide the best gas mileage while pulling my trailer. Sure, pulling just about anything will drop the mpg down a bit, and I am pulling quite a load. Thanks in advance for any help.

jkingrph
07-15-2007, 03:57 PM
Get a diesel!!!:usflag:

Quiky One
07-15-2007, 03:59 PM
Diesel or gas motor?

Patriot Services
07-15-2007, 04:21 PM
The Dodge with the Cummins will average 15-20 MPG and are going for about 10k right now. Bullet proof, easy to work on. The sticks are tougher than the automatics in those years. They were still trying to build an auto tranny that could take commercial abuse. 2WD will also save fuel and is not necessary unless you plow with it too.:usflag: :usflag: :usflag:

carcrz
07-15-2007, 04:31 PM
PS is right. I've got an '05 Ram 2500 w/ a Cummins. In the town pulling my trailer I average 16 mpg & Hwy anywhere from 20 to 24 (24 on a rare occassion under ideal conditions).

grassmanak
07-15-2007, 04:49 PM
are you talking gas or diesel, either way its gonna be a chevy or gmc,

lawn king
07-15-2007, 05:07 PM
are you talking gas or diesel, either way its gonna be a chevy or gmc,
Agreed. GM is the best bet on fuel, we also found the GM 4wd system far better than ford.

Lohse's Lawn Service
07-15-2007, 05:12 PM
I'd like to know the pros and cons of both, along with the mpg on the suggested vehicle. I appreciate it.

Lohse's Lawn Service
07-15-2007, 05:13 PM
I'd take either. I'd like to know the pros/cons of both and the mpg on the suggested vehicle. I appreciate everyone's help.

Quiky One
07-15-2007, 05:22 PM
I can tell you Chevy's and GMC's...
I have both of the gas versions 5.3 and 6.0.
The 5.3 gets 19.5 on the highway empty and 16 in town empty. Down a 6k pound car trailer at 65-70 on fairly flat terrain at 2800 RPM's yields anywhere from 12-14 MPH.
The 6.0 gets 16 on the highway empty and 13 in town empty. It has plenty of power but is a gas HOG. Towing you are lucky to get 10...

I have driven a new LBZ 2006-2007 Dmax with the 6 speed ally and it got 19-21 on the highway and 17-19 in town. Towing the same car hauler 6k pounds it got 16-18. The diesel is a powerhouse and if you can afford it go for it. They will last a long time and are reliable.

Jason

lawn king
07-15-2007, 05:45 PM
We dont use pickup's now, so i really cant comment on the new models. My opinion was based on the ford,gm & dodge trucks we ran from 1977 to 2002. We now run diesel cabovers, 1 chevy tahoe and 1 very beat ford.

tthomass
07-15-2007, 06:37 PM
'02 Chevy 2500hd
ext cab
long bed
4x4
6.0L gas
4.10 rear

8mpg with trailer
10-11mpg running around
13-15 highway

3.73 rear will give you 1-1.5mpg more

flahsed ECU ($150) will give you .5-1.5mpg more

LindblomRJ
07-15-2007, 07:25 PM
7.3 powerstroke is good, there have been reports of good mileage. GM gas engines are pretty good on fuel. My 96 I can get 15 or 16 MPG if I am not heavy on the gas. That is loaded with 1,000 LBS of stuff and no trailer.

ffemt1271
07-15-2007, 08:19 PM
i have a 03 dodge quad cab diesel i put a chip and a K&N in it ant get 20 MPG pulling a 6 x 12 with a lazer zs 73":usflag:

nobagger
07-15-2007, 08:52 PM
If your going to be in this type of business (service industry) and your going to worry about a few more miles per gallon you will drive yourself nuts! I have a 06 F250 4x4 with 4:10's and a 5.4L gasser. Empty or towing there is not a whole lot of difference! I dont drive like a nut though, I kinda baby my equipment. I ended up installing a K&N air induction kit on it and I still dont notice much difference, more power but not MPG. It has tons of power for towing or pushin' snow. I would say that Ford, Chevy, GMC, Dodge are all going to be close in mpg which in the end result equals....not much! A diesel might get you a few more mpg but I can buy a hell of a lot of gas for the 6k difference in price not to mention the maintenance like an oil change is 3 times as much. I dont regret at all buying my gasser, I also had to consider a plow for this truck and my options became more limited if I went to a diesel.Good luck.

lawnboy dan
07-15-2007, 09:03 PM
i agree with no, bagger-well said.

lawnmaniac883
07-15-2007, 09:15 PM
i have a 03 dodge quad cab diesel i put a chip and a K&N in it ant get 20 MPG pulling a 6 x 12 with a lazer zs 73":usflag:

In the city? No you dont.

Not sure what the best bang for the buck would be and I have to agree with nobagger that mileage is secondary, you need to have a solid truck that will pull your equipment with no trouble. My vote would be a 98 cummins 12valve with a stick shift. Not sure what you are looking to spend but diesel will pull better, last longer and do better on fuel especially pulling a trailer. Gassers will do ok pulling but are gonna chew up fuel no matter what brand/engine

Lawnworks
07-15-2007, 09:36 PM
I have never seen another truck outperform a dodge/cummins on fuel mileage or torque.

themowerman
07-16-2007, 10:23 AM
Originally Posted by ffemt1271
i have a 03 dodge quad cab diesel i put a chip and a K&N in it ant get 20 MPG pulling a 6 x 12 with a lazer zs 73"

I will throw out the BS flag on that statement......I have an 05 2500 QC 4X4 CTD slightly modded and only get 17-18mpg empty....20-24 highway empty....14-15 highway towing 8000lbs.

buddhaman
07-16-2007, 02:48 PM
No such thing as a 3/4 ton with fuel economy. Those 2 words don't belong in the same sentence.

J&R Landscaping
07-16-2007, 03:58 PM
For the best fuel milage, get a diesel. If you can find a Dodge Ram 2500 with that qds (I think thats what they call it) that will save you some fuel as it will only run on all eight cylinders when you need it. My uncle has one in a 2006 ram 2500 and he likes it a lot.

Grassmechanic
07-16-2007, 04:32 PM
I dunno....My '97 cummins gets nothing less than 20, except in the winter, then it'll go down to 18. But it's a 2WD 12 valve with a straight pipe and no other mods. My last tank I got 22mpg. A Lazer on a 6x12 ain't much. His mileage may be doable.

POPO4995
07-16-2007, 04:44 PM
His mileage is very do-able. You could take any two exact same brand trucks with diesel engines and they can vary in fuel consumption. Seen and heard of it alot.

4curbappeal
07-16-2007, 08:12 PM
I know it's not my 3\4 ton GMC! It's amazing how much gas I go through.Honestly, I don't think any 3\4 pulling a trailer is going to be very good!

fiveoboy01
07-16-2007, 09:02 PM
No such thing as a 3/4 ton with fuel economy. Those 2 words don't belong in the same sentence.

My thoughts when I read the title of the thread:laugh:

A diesel will get you better mileage when towing but keep in mind that the maintenance costs are higher, as is the initial price.

I can tell you that my truck gets around 10-11 pulling the mower trailer. 5.4 gas engine. My guesstimate is around 3500-3600# with the mowers, trimmers etc on it.

GroundEffects125
07-16-2007, 09:26 PM
I got a 2002 F:350 with a lift and tires but i have a hyperchip in it an im getting 18-21 mpg if i was u i would go with it

Americal Vet
07-16-2007, 09:56 PM
Not to hijack the original thread but as everyone will agree fuel cost's are getting way out of hand. This morning I filled my truck and a few cans and I spent about $150.00 bucks. This really sucks because of one of the contracts I have. When I originally bid the contract I thought I gave myself enough cushion for a fuel increase.... Nope! It is still making money, but I'm not netting as much as before.

BTW.... 3/4 ton and good fuel mileage is a contradiction in terms.

Grits
07-16-2007, 10:30 PM
You don't buy a 3/4 ton truck for the gas mileage.

twj721
07-16-2007, 10:48 PM
I have a 2005 dodge 3500 with cummins and 6 spd and just did a run from home to Humble Tx pulling our 16 ft Landscaper Gn trailer with a Turf Tiger in it and we average about 15..MPG my old 2004 ford f250 we were lucky to get 11.0 mpg that is the main reason we Dodge is does a lot better than the ford did for sure

tthomass
07-16-2007, 11:15 PM
Cousin has a Chevy 3500 DMAX........23mpg with Bully Dog chip......all I know.

RedWingsDet
07-16-2007, 11:15 PM
ITS A TRUCK, you will never get great mileage.

One of my trucks get 7MPG towing a 20ft enclosed, the other truck gets about 9 which has a bigger motor and is a bigger truck, kinda weird. Either way, dont expect to get good mileage. I cant stand the folks who expect honda mileage in a big truck.

SILVERSTREAK INC
07-17-2007, 01:25 AM
ive driven a buncha different trucks mowing and i gotta say i lucked out buying a 1994 f-250 extended cab idi turbo diesel 4x4, still getting 16-20 with or without the trailer, super easy to work on. i tow a dual axle 10k pounder, but run 2 riders, a 48" and a 60" walker so only somewhere around 3500 pounds of cargo, plus the trailer is heavy at 2200 pounds unloaded, so for almost 6000 pounds it does nice, just a pain when i decide to mow with 4 guys, the cab and a half is a bigger pain than a crew cab, but youre talking 3/4 ton, they only had the crew cabs in the one ton those years

i also did good back when i had my chevy k2500 1990 4x4 with the 305 motor, but i dont think itd hold out too long with a dual axle, but worked out fine when i had a single axle and one rider...prolly worked harder tghan any other truck ive had. i keep it for plow duty only now.

good luck with whatever you pick

Grassmechanic
07-17-2007, 04:46 PM
A diesel will get you better mileage when towing but keep in mind that the maintenance costs are higher, as is the initial price.

Huh?? How do you figure a diesel costs more to maintain? No plugs, no wires, no coils, no distributors, no tune-ups. The only thing I've put into my cummins was a starter ($129) and a power steering pump ($89) in a 160k. I cringe when I think of all the cash I've sunk into gassers just to keep them going:dizzy:

lwcmattlifter
07-17-2007, 06:56 PM
I put a $1200 injection pump and 2 lift pumps on my Cummins. 7 months later and I still can't let it go. I haven't put half that into my old 7.3. The stock Cummins pulls better than a stock 7.3. I wouldn't trade either for a gasser though.

fiveoboy01
07-17-2007, 07:24 PM
Huh?? How do you figure a diesel costs more to maintain? No plugs, no wires, no coils, no distributors, no tune-ups. The only thing I've put into my cummins was a starter ($129) and a power steering pump ($89) in a 160k. I cringe when I think of all the cash I've sunk into gassers just to keep them going:dizzy:


Hmm...

I was talking about routine maintenance such as oil changes, but you're still wrong. I work on diesels on a daily basis, light medium and heavy duty, and our gas vehicles cost nothing to maintain compared to the diesels. True, the longevity might be better with one but "certain" parts not found on a gasser cost a WHOLE lot more and they will fail or wear out guaranteed.

Anyone who claims that a gasser costs less to maintain than a diesel is nuts. How about if an injection pump goes out, or an injector? Those aren't small cash items.

Don't even get me started on the particulate filters for ULS Diesel engines...

Greybeard
07-17-2007, 08:07 PM
Towing a single-axle trailer with a couple of mowers doesn't require a 3/4 ton. Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Toyota half-tons will work fine. They'll get better mileage every day. Pulling into the mulch yard today, I saw a guy leaving with a good-sized dump trailer full of mulch - towed by a Ford Ranger! Had a plow frame on the front, too.
BTW, our F350 5.4 gasser gets 12-13 mpg around town, 10-11 towing a BIG trailer, and has pulled 16 mpg on the interstate, loaded heavy. Not great mpg, but in 99,600 miles, I've only replaced the serpentine belt and the plugs - maintenance items. Friends with diesels with half the mileage gave had thousands in repairs, not major overhauls, but starters, injector pumps, rusty oil pans that require engine removal, you name it. Gotta save a lotta fuel to equal out those repairs. But plenty of other guys have had great luck with diesels. i wouldn't use one for lawn service - stop and go driving is very hard on them. They like to run down the highway and clear out the carbon deposits.
If I were starting a lawn biz today, I'd look at a new Chev/GMC 1/2 ton. They have 100,000 mile warranty and 0% financing. With the right engine/trans combo they'll do 20 mpg highway, and they'll pull your trailer just fine. Good luck.

Drew Gemma
07-17-2007, 08:35 PM
v-10 f350 dually dump 20ft. tr. loaded down 7 empty 12 but when I wanna work the truck it always does the job.

lawnboy dan
07-18-2007, 08:02 AM
i agree the deisel isnt the way to go in trucks . the mpg isnt good enough to off set the other costs. this applies only to american trucks. jap deisels are great

Brad Ent
07-18-2007, 08:39 AM
MPG is only part of the equation.
Evaluate what your true needs - Remember you are steward of what God has given you. We're all in this business to make money!!
Look at total operating cost/cost per mile
Estimate the following:
Annual miles
Avg fuel cost
Ballpark MPG
Purchase price/monthly payment
Taxes
Maintenance
Registration
Etc.
Make two spreadsheets, one for gas the other for diesel

I have to disagree with "Carcrz" 20-24 MPG is not typical of any medium duty class vehicle loaded or unloaded.

Use Quicky One's MPG figures for your evaluation.

Brad Ent
07-18-2007, 08:49 AM
Lawnboy dan,
I hate to break the news to you but, Duramax is a "Jap" (Japanese) diesel (Isuzu)
What type of Asian 4x4 truck can you plow snow with??
We don't see many Mitsubishi's 4x4's up here??

themowerman
07-18-2007, 08:59 AM
Here is an analysis of the fuel economy of one of the Dodge Truck World members that he posted on the forum. This is a 2006 2500QC 4X4 CTD.

I'm not sure if anyone finds all this terribly interesting or not, but I hit 30k miles and it's time for my fuel update. Just for informations sake.

The lift and tires went on at approximately 25030 miles ... so about 5000 miles ago.

Miles to date: 30528
Actually miles to date tire adjustment: 30918 (7% adustment)
Gallons to date: 1850.148

Average fuel economy to 25030 miles (before tires): 16.989
Average fuel economy from 25030 to present (after tires): 15.855 (adjusted 7%)

Total cost of fuel to date: 5472.47
Total cost of gas (*unadjusted): 5457.79

*This number represents what the same volume of gasoline would have cost. It does not take into account, yet, the lower fuel consumption adjustment necessary to compensate for the higher efficiency of a diesel engine*

Average per gallon diesel overall to date: 2.97
Average per gallon gas (89 octante)overall to date: 2.98

Inferred MPG of a comparably equipped 2500 Ram with a gasoline motor BEFORE tires and lift: 12
Inferred MPG of a comparably equipped 2500 Ram with a gasoline motor AFTER tires and loft: 11.18

(My mileage is approximately 93% what it was before the lift and tires. I applied this directly to my previous estimate of 12 mpg to come up with 11.18, assuming all factors remained the same. This a strong,non-scientific, yet necessary, assumption.)


Factor of difference between 11.18 and 15.855: 1.43
(notice how the factor of difference has not changed from my 20k report, as this is a necessity to overcome statistical limitations of accounting for all the differences that may have occurred. While not an ENTIRELY accurate representation, for our purposes, it's close enough.)

This means that I would have to use 43% more gasoline than diesel to go the same distance I have gone, which means $5457.79 x 1.43:
$7729.95 adjusted gas usage

The difference between the actual fuel usage and adjusted estimated gas usage at 30K miles is: 2257.48 bucks (WOW!)(At this rate, the 6000 dollar difference will start paying me back at about 79k miles, assuming all things remain constant, and not including the higher resale value of the truck.)

So in the last 10k miles of driving, i've saved over 900 bucks by driving the diesel. Wow. Just wow. Take into account that the diesel was an extra 75 bucks a payment over each of those six months, and i've still saved 450 bucks altogether.

Now, i've had this thing for 395 days. It's saved me 2257 bucks in that time. That's a savings of 5.71 (compare to 5.40 from previous report) a day. That's 171 dollars a month (compare to previous report of 160) in savings just for driving it. So if the diesel cost less than 171 dollars more a month than the gasser in my payments (which it's about half that), it's worth it financially.

Just in case anyone was wondering. LOL

Also, in case anyone was wondering, i've decided to show how much I would've saved if my estimates on a 2500 Ram's fuel mileage were overly optimistic (which, I think they are):

at 11 mpg: 2402
at 10.5 mpg: 2784
at 10 mpg: 3193
at 9.5 mpg: 3652 (If this was the case, i'd start making money back on the deal at about 50k miles)

Now, one final aside is in regards to the loss of mileage with the new tires. They are 305/70-17 - about 34 inches tall. It's a difference in height of just about 7% (6.989% to be exact) to the stock tires. All these figures HAVE been adjusted, where noted, for the increased distance traveled beyond what the unadjusted speedometer says (The 06 speedometer is NOT adjustable up to this size, of course!). Also keep in mind, i'm running 45 psi up front and 40 psi in the back for the Kore lift, and that can, and does, affect mileage.

That being said, my mileage before the tires was a solidly arrived at 16.989. My mileage, adjusted, after the tires, is a solid 15.855. That's a difference of 1.134 mpg (LESS!). Black and white folks, the numbers don't lie.

With 3.73 gears, with all the driving I do, probably a very close 50/50 city highway, maybe ever so slightly more city, I have lost 1.134 mpg.

God, I wish I had 4.10's. LOL

That's it, i'm done!
Hope you enjoyed!

Brad Ent
07-18-2007, 09:48 AM
themowerman,
Very interesting statistics
The overall operating cost of your Ram 2500 Diesel still exceeds the cost of
a comparably equipped (unmodified) Ram 2500 gas
Initial purchase price, depreciation, maintenance, modifications, etc.
Typical payback diesel vs gas (based on annual mileage) isn't until year six to ten

Once again MPG is only one factor when determining total operating cost.


So what is your total operating cost

scag36
07-18-2007, 10:50 AM
go with the chevy diesel its your best bet DURAMAX is the way to go

themowerman
07-18-2007, 11:47 AM
Brad,

Take a look at identical year rams, one with a gasser and one with a diesel and look at the trade in values. Factor that in as well. You will always see more on trade for your diesel. Maint costs for my diesel are a lot less than the Hemi I had. (unless I suffer a lift pump or injector pump failure) but factor in a 100,000 mile warranty. I was getting 7.5mpg towing my 8000lb camper and now I get 14mpg. It tows it with less effort. Show me a gasser that is going to see 400,000 to 500,000 miles and work just as hard as it was new.

themowerman
07-18-2007, 11:54 AM
Those fuel statistics are from one of our DTW members who used to have the same truck but in a Hemi so his calculations are right on the money for him. He said that with the extra $6000.00 it cost for the CTD option, and with his fuel savings calculations he will be at the break even point at 79k miles. My 2005 2500 QC 4x4 CTD is at 36K and I am getting 17 to 18mpg empty around town, 20 to 24mpg on highway if I keep it around 65mph and I get 14mpg towing 8000lbs on the highway. I never saw those kinds of numbers on my 2003 1500QC 4x4 Hemi...............

lawnboy dan
07-18-2007, 02:23 PM
if the dura-max is a isuzu diesel -it should be great. i owned a isuzu diesel small truck-best engine i ever saw. i hear lots of bad stories about what ever diesel ford is using . since the full size trucks with diesel seem to get less than 20 mpg-its dosnt seem worth the extra cost and they dont seem to go 300,000 miles like a diesel should

Grassmechanic
07-21-2007, 09:40 AM
Hmm...

I was talking about routine maintenance such as oil changes, but you're still wrong. I work on diesels on a daily basis, light medium and heavy duty, and our gas vehicles cost nothing to maintain compared to the diesels. True, the longevity might be better with one but "certain" parts not found on a gasser cost a WHOLE lot more and they will fail or wear out guaranteed.

Anyone who claims that a gasser costs less to maintain than a diesel is nuts. How about if an injection pump goes out, or an injector? Those aren't small cash items.

Don't even get me started on the particulate filters for ULS Diesel engines...

I rarely work on my cummins, other than oil changes. Every gasser I've owned has always cost more to maintain, no matter who made it. I was a fleet mgr. for 8 years and did cost analysis comparisons on diesel/gas and diesel always came out ahead in maintenance costs. True, the newer models have lift pump issues, but the older models don't. The mechanical Bosch injector pump has a 1,000,000 mile service life while the newer electronic pumps are known to have issues. Gassers also have injectors and injector pumps that can fail, so your point there is moot. I speak from real life and my diesel is simply cheaper and easier to maintain. Simple as that. The real issue is that the tonka toy diesels that Navistar and Isuzu put in the trucks are simply not as well built as a cummins, or a cat.

You need to ask yourself a question. Why are all tractor/trailers diesel? Because they are easier and cheaper to maintain.:cool2:

fiveoboy01
07-21-2007, 10:29 AM
Ha ha, I'm a diesel tech with 6+ years of experience with the largest leasing company in the US.

I mainly work on class 7 and 8 trucks. (mostly)Detroits, Cats, Cummins, Naivstar.

None of them are what I'd call reliable. The Detroits are not too bad, luckily we have them in most of our trucks. The Cummins ISX is in my opinion the biggest POS ever to be put in a Class 8 truck. Cats aren't bad but their addiction to using o-rings results in some leaks, and navistar's EGR engines blow as well. The older Navistars were good engines.

Class 8 trucks don't have diesels because they're so reliable(though that is a small part of it), it's simply a fact that nothing else can pull 40 tons.

I'll agree with you on the injector/pump issue, but a fuel injector or fuel pump for a gasser is going to be a LOT cheaper to replace than for a diesel.

joed
08-04-2007, 08:14 PM
I currently own an 2000 3/4 ton GM with the 6.0L gas. Before that, I had a 92 Ford F250 with the 7.3L diesel (non-turbo). I can tell you that I spent a lot more money keeping the diesel going than I have with the gas. The diesel did get way better fuel economy (16 mpg vs 13 mpg on the gas) but man, when it needed work like injectors and glow plugs etc., it was brutal in terms of cost. I haven't spent anything on gas engine and it's approaching 200 000 km.

I was recently looking at buying a new GM truck. In talking with a sales rep, even he agreed that the diesel was not worth it. By the calculations of his dealership, you'd have to drive about 300 000 km before gaining an economic advantage with the diesel. By that time, the rest of the truck is falling apart around it.

Bottom Line: Diesels are terrific if you're driving a lot of miles/year, you're pulling heavy loads every day for long distances and/or you're moving heavy loads all day long. That's why they are excellent in farm equipment, construction equipment and heavy trucks. In those applications, the engine is working all day long. However, if the truck is just going to a job site and sitting there, the extra cost of the diesel is not worth it.

Now if they were to ever to put a small diesel in a 1/2 ton pick up that can get about 30 mpg and price it reasonably, then you've got a winner. So far, from what I read, GM is planning to but a 4.5L 8 cylinder duramax diesel in their 2010 1/2 tons. So it should be interesting to see what happens with that.

TXNSLighting
08-05-2007, 12:20 PM
For the best fuel milage, get a diesel. If you can find a Dodge Ram 2500 with that qds (I think thats what they call it) that will save you some fuel as it will only run on all eight cylinders when you need it. My uncle has one in a 2006 ram 2500 and he likes it a lot.

did you just say a cummins has 8 cylinders???!!!!

J&R Landscaping
08-06-2007, 11:33 AM
did you just say a cummins has 8 cylinders???!!!!

No, my fault. The truck my uncle has is a hemi 5.7L.

TXNSLighting
08-06-2007, 12:09 PM
ok good! you scared me there.