Start up questions....had enough with the shirt and tie

[Mike821]

Hello all,

Is it possible to make 40g’s the first year after taxes? (NJ Based) I would plan on advertizing with flyers, newspaper, and word of mouth. I will consider plowing…but I know how much of a beating you can take doing so. I had a landscaping business 14 years ago, so I have some kind of clue as to how landscaping/installations can be a profitable. I am now 37 years old working like a idiot for corporate America. Needless to say it sucks, for lack of a better term. At 37 it will be a little harder to do the work myslef to start….but feel that I want it bad enough to do so. The only thing that is holding me back is the money factor. I have to clear 40g’s one way or another. Can I do so by myself with just lawns and some installation work? I know in the past I was able to do so the second year owning my landscaping business, but things has changed.

Any suggestions or comments welcome………I just wanted to ask you all that are currently working as a landscaper (lawns/installations) .
I need to do something else with my life before I lose my stuffing in this office.


Thanks for your help…..Mike

[TNT LawnCare Inc.]

I think if you plan out everthing yes. Get enough business for plowing thru the winter and next year go fo it. I cant tell you how many times i was unsure about jumpimg in,but if you dont you'll regret it and you know it. Worked at a dealership for years got tired of the politics and Nothing to offer you. Go for it i did 3 years ago and have never looked back !

[fiveoboy01]

40K the first year after taxes and expenses?

Difficult, but definitely possible.

[Mike821]

Yes....40g's after expenses and taxes. I once had a business and a great accountant, so I was able to break even the first few years I had my landscaping business in NJ. My main concern is that I have a newborn, home, and bills (don't we all) I am willing to break my stones to get things up and running. I have in the past found flyers to be the best advertizing. The newspaper...well, it is good for the long term, but for starting up might not bring in as many clients as the flyers. My plans are to purchase a SCAG ZTR (size yet to be determined) to maintain 1/2 to 3 acre properties. Purchase a roach (1,000) walk behind for the small stuff (36") that gets in the pool area's.

I just have had it...........like you said you never looked back. That is the kind of response I needed to hear. I have to tell you that after 14 years I have made almost double my starting salary. Taxes kill me....politics is a *****....and my company had laid people off like no tomorrow (fortune 10 pharm company). I am just tired of the crap and want to get what I put into life. I am a people person and can sell a job without a doubt. I have a great business partner...my wife, whom says follow your dream. Do whatever makes you happy. Well.....when I mow my 1/2 acre with my Toro homeowner hydro 36" cut.....I grit my teeth knowing that I have such a good time doing so...and this homeowner mower is no comparison to the 61" dixie chopper I would ride.

I don't want to wait for my company to lay me off. The day of people working for a corp company for 30 years is over. I want to determine my own fate.

Like I said.....your comments are welcome and I need the inspiration.

Thanks,
Mike

[zz4guy]

Hmm a newborn on the way? You want to quit a steady job with health benefits and jump into something in which you'll have to meet your expenses, AND then meet the $40k goal with a baby and a wife to support?

Personally I would not in that situation unless you are sitting on a lump of money to get you through things. And even then... babies are prone to health problems in the first few years. What if you get a $30,000 doctor bill a year from now? It isn't uncommon. How would you pay for that? You better check out the health insurance.

I work in an office 50 hrs a week and KNOW EXACTLY how you feel. Politics, taxes stealing half your income, red tape everywhere, get screwed every year on the raises. I hate it and as soon as I have enough money I am going to split too.

But IMO that doesnt sound like a smart move for your kid. There's something to be said for a guy who does what's best for his kid even if it isn't what he loves.

just my opinion. I'm 27 and single :dancing:

[TNT LawnCare Inc.]

As long as you and your wife know the sacrfice that comes with running a business the few 1st years can be sometimes hard. Sounds like you got a great wife too Like me.:) Just think of how much more time you'll be able to spend with your family when your business is up and running and all you have to do is manage it. Yes it's hard somedays but its all yours and no one is going to fire you. Get your tax I.D # and insurance, and go for it :weightlifter: :waving:

[Mike821]

Mike....thanks bud for your reponse. My wife works for the same company and has an health ins. It is one of the leader's in helth insurance....so that would not be a concern. We are flat as to what we owe towards credit cards. One car payment and enough money saved to get us past nine months of no income on my part. I can take a short term loss without even blinking an eye. I am willing to do whatever it takes to make it happen.

[greg1]

Good advice from everyone, but i'm leaning towards ZZ4. My opinion for your situation is if you really want it then take it slow at first. Keep your steady income and your present lifestyle. Your definitely in a good area to build a business and you should not have a problem being successful if you apply yourself and enjoy the work. Besides lawn maintenance there is always room for another quality landscape installation and maintenance company. Your right there in the middle of somerset and hunterdon county, i think you'll be fine. Just take it easy, you'll know when to pull the trigger on full time landscaping. good luck to ya.

[Mike821]

Thanks bud! I do have to say....I am 37 and either I take the plunge or I am a PT weekend bandit. Wife makes a good buck and I have some money in the bank. I hate my current job (Computer Project Mgt.) like no tomorrow. My wife says do whatever makes you happy. Your thoughts and comments on the FT job that has security are well taken. I just think that the window of opportunity for me is closing. Starting at a later age will be a challenge the more I sit like a lump in an office. I live for the first cut and that smell of green grass. A cold day with a Carhart sweatshirt that is worn 1,000 times over but you still hold on to it because it has sentimental value. The 2-stroke cologne that you proudly wear when you finish for the day. Let's not forget the installations that went so well you were surprised that you can make 2-3g's in 2-3 days. (small jobs) I guess it comes down to the fact that I do miss it and wish every day that I was doing it. I was there in the past for three years, but have some hesitation with a little girl. BTW....her name is Harley. No affiliation to the bikes...but my wife liked the name and so did I. Someone sold me a smoke screen and told me that the Corp. world is the way to go. Well.....I don't need the heath insurance and I am not in the hole for any credit. Why not take a chance....it could be my last if I don't start now. (spring 08) Not to mention that I can obtain some help...mmmmm Skilled labor at the local D&D if you know what I mean. I was against this....but know that I'd rather support some cheap labor than give the money to the local gas station that will run back to the desert with the cash (trying to be nice) and then take the lives of my friends. (lost a few to that whoopla) But...I have rambled on and on. I just think I will kick myself in the can if I don't jump this spring.

Your thoughts...........

Thanks for the reply.

Mike

[Mike821]

Oh...forgot
The 40K is what I have to clear in order to stay in the green. My wife has a job and the 40K and her salary would put us at the same stage I am at now. Hey....13 years and I have doubbled my salary. The market for my skills now is leaning over the pond (India) and might be outsourced. The I am faced with a pile of crap trying to apply at another circus (corp. co) only to face the same earning potental and mgt that just is in left field. Some days I could just give the signal and "Take this job and shove it" (remember that movie) but anyway I appriciate the comments and suggestions. Once a scaper always a scaper.

Mike

[HOOLIE]

Mike....thanks bud for your reponse. My wife works for the same company and has an health ins. It is one of the leader's in helth insurance....so that would not be a concern. We are flat as to what we owe towards credit cards. One car payment and enough money saved to get us past nine months of no income on my part. I can take a short term loss without even blinking an eye. I am willing to do whatever it takes to make it happen.

If this is the case, then you're in a nice position to make it work. It'll be hard to clear 40k on mowing alone, but with a combo of installs/mowing it's possible.

[greg1]

Do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mike821]

I don't have much to lose......I am willing to do the whole shabang. Tilling, cleanups, pavers, walls, new and existing scaping installs/upgrades, power washing....you name it. I don't want to spread myself out that thin, but my motto will be catered to the total property maintenance. This includes snow....I take my early comment back. This can also be a good avenue to profit and obtain some new clients for the spring/summer. Let's just say I have done it all. I just want to make the right move before I lose my sh#* on a cocky shirt and tie that has no concern for me.

I have to say....funny that I just joined today. I was at an associate’s desk resolving some issues when she asked about pavers. HuH.....what is this lady crazy I said. I responded back by asking her how many sq ft does she want to cover. I went into estimate mode and began to sell her a 700sq ft paver job. She asked if I had some time to do so on the weekends. That is the problem...it is all or nothing for me. Either I do it or stick with the crap I have now. Ride it out and hope I have a job in the next year or two.

As you can tell from my posts I am leaning toward letting it rip. What is the worst thing that can happen....I bartend for a few nights until I am up and running.

Any other thoughts.....keep um coming.

Smell the smoke...brain working overtime.

Thanks guys!

[TNT LawnCare Inc.]

Well then sit down with the wife and start the business plan,get the flyers and pass them out. Run an add in the local paper. Go bye all the Equipment you need . If you really got the bucks hire a Marketing manager and let er fly !!:weightlifter:

[DuraCutter]

Mike....thanks bud for your reponse. My wife works for the same company and has an health ins. It is one of the leader's in helth insurance....so that would not be a concern. We are flat as to what we owe towards credit cards. One car payment and enough money saved to get us past nine months of no income on my part. I can take a short term loss without even blinking an eye. I am willing to do whatever it takes to make it happen.

Have you seen the movie Sicko by Michael Moore? It's when you need to use the health care insurance that you find out how they'll try to exclude in every way possible.

If you want to do what you're talking about, start part time because mowind lawns does not pay well and to make 40g's after taxes takes a single guy who has all the time in the world many years to accomplish.

THINK twice before just jumping in. Your families comfort is at stake here.

You could always move to Canada and get free healthcare. Here we don't ever worry about it.

Good luck!

:)

[Mike821]

So what do you recommend in terms of a mower/mowers? I have been tossing around the idea of a ZTR SCAG or Exmark. Leaning toward a Tiger Cub with a bagger attachment. Size still up in the air. I have lawns that are 1/2 to 4-5 acres that I will target. Hope to get a good deal of the larger accounts, but will take what I can get to start. The 48" sounds like it might be small....but a 52-61 might be a better choice. Let's just say if you can't get in the fenced area...then a 36" whoopty for a G-note would do the trick. As for a truck some guys are saying new....used.....can't get a good idea as to the way to start. I can sell my 05 jeep Grand Cherokee and get a new truck under the X-plan (FORD XL 250 crew cab) for around $27,500. I also have access to the auction and am able to get a good truck with 40K for about 17K or less. With the employee purchase plan I now can take advantage of it might make sense to take my co up on that offer. Oh....my wife works for the same co and she can get the deal even if I leave. So...it might be better to get a used truck to start out with. As for the rest of the equipment....trailer will be an open one. Use it for everything....and I have a shed that will hold a rider and other mowers. Should I start out with new or used is the question. As for a mower.....used is like spinning a wheel at Vegas. You can get it home and it tanks, even if it checks out and you have no smoke, pinging, or issues....you do not know what someone has done with the equipment. Hardscaping will have to be done with rentals (ditch digger, hoe, york rake, Etc.) So I lose some money from my bottom line. No biggie as long as the job is doen the right way.

So what do you think....SCAG....EXMARK Pro's con's Size
Truck New/Used

These things I need to find out in order to calculate my start up costs and monthly payments/cash outlay.

Any ideas or suggestions

[Mike821]

DuraCutter

Point taken...but the ole' saying by a great hockey player sticks in my mind (no pun intended)

Wayne Gretzky..... You miss 100% of the shots you never take.

I would not just cut lawns....I have hardscaped before and also cut lawns back in 1994. I was a one man crue for half of the year...then hired one of my buddies to work with me (lesson learned....don't hire friends) Things worked out...but I was young and the go go bars made a killing from my hospitality with my care free money spending. For all I know I could have earned what I want to clear and then some. Did not do any book keeping....just wrote checks and worked like a dog. Three years later I was mowing 175 acers and doing hardscaping three out of the six days. Owned two dixie choppers 61" 2 bobcat's 48" and one 36" scag....when they were called SCAGS...said it on the cover. (lol)


All that said....for 40 g's with some new and used equipment I can be rolling and on my way to building my business at the age of 37. If I wait...well, the one man band might take a toll on me. I might not be as lucky at that time in my life.

Health insurance in the states is availble for spouces even if one does not work for the company. Yes it is a additional charge, but you do get the same coverage. So that is not an issue.

It is starting out and leaving the cushy hell I work in now.

[DuraCutter]

DuraCutter

Point taken...but the ole' saying by a great hockey player sticks in my mind (no pun intended)

Wayne Gretzky..... You miss 100% of the shots you never take.

I would not just cut lawns....I have hardscaped before and also cut lawns back in 1994. I was a one man crue for half of the year...then hired one of my buddies to work with me (lesson learned....don't hire friends) Things worked out...but I was young and the go go bars made a killing from my hospitality with my care free money spending. For all I know I could have earned what I want to clear and then some. Did not do any book keeping....just wrote checks and worked like a dog. Three years later I was mowing 175 acers and doing hardscaping three out of the six days. Owned two dixie choppers 61" 2 bobcat's 48" and one 36" scag....when they were called SCAGS...said it on the cover. (lol)


All that said....for 40 g's with some new and used equipment I can be rolling and on my way to building my business at the age of 37. If I wait...well, the one man band might take a toll on me. I might not be as lucky at that time in my life.

Health insurance in the states is availble for spouces even if one does not work for the company. Yes it is a additional charge, but you do get the same coverage. So that is not an issue.

It is starting out and leaving the cushy hell I work in now.

If you do more than cutting, yes it's possible. We do more than cutting but have high overhead due to all the equipment we need and the warehouse and staff all add up. I've got an office manager who also helps on bids etc... If you play it smart and diversify without buying too much equipment, let's say renting to start, you can make 40k profit in 1 month where I live. Landscaping here brings the co. about 2k a day in profit, about 5 guys working. Other crews do other work at same time. Landscaping, retainer walls, re sodding of yards in condos all pay very very well. I don't price according to the job, I price according to the situation, how the customer approaches us and what they can pay. I've got one condo right now that has had very little work to their landscaping and it's a mature site, about 40years old. I'm working by the hour with 5 guys and they don't mind because I'm making it look good after many years of neglect. This situation presents many opportunities to make great coin as they are spending the condo's money not theirs and they want it to look good.

If, and only if you play your cards right can you make real money... it's complicated but if chosen carefully the work will reward you. Btw, parking lot and parkade cleaning also pays extremely well. It's equipment intensive but the payback is out of this world... :laugh:

:)

[Mike821]

Thanks bud....funny A freind of mine and his family own a very large farm in Alberta. Last name Lefsrud is the last name. Just a note....thanks for the info.

[DLAWNS]

I think that you should go for it. Obviously you've weighed the pros and cons, the health insurance thing is covered, your wife says to go for it, and you seem to have some experience in most aspects of the field. My suggestion would be to get your pesticide license. Thats what I did and its paying off great. Customers really love the full service aspect. As for your question about mowers I have a 52" Toro Z and a 32" Exmark Metro. Big cut for wide open areas and a 32" will fit in almost any fence. I am having success with both mowers and a bagging unit would be good too as long as you have a place to unload the grass. I would suggest going for a used truck as long as it is heavy duty and in good condition. I hope some of this helps and if you got any other questions don't be afraid to ask as I am also in Jersey and might be able to point you in the right direction.

[Mike821]

Bill....thanks for the reply. If you do not mind me asking, what did you have to do for your pesticide lic. in NJ? I was thinking about that in addition to the services I would offer. I have a good six months to obtain it. Even if I start out PT I can still take care of some fert jobs. Thatching, aeration, and seeding also are big hits if you can land them in the spring. My passion back in the day was rock walls. I just had a knack for blue stone. Loved the work..but at 37 I know I am not going to be as spry as I was at 24.
As for knowing what I am doing....yes I have had a total of 10+ years working and owning my own business (3 my own bus.) and the rest working in the field. From hard capes, fertilizer, lawns, aeration, over seeding.....backhoe work...you name it and I probably have done it. I have no fear of the quality of work I would produce. The fear comes from the laborer/s that I will find these days. Day labor / FTE's on the up and up.....??? Insurance costs are also another mystery for me. I have not yet researched that route. (Liability workers comp) I know to start it will just be me and a grunt running a weed whacker and blower. Hard scapes....just a hump who can feed me block...dig holes Etc.

Yeah there is a good deal of scapers here in my area, Bridgewater....but will they have the skills to sell/up sell, advertise effectively and the quality of work that will bring business via word of mouth. That is big...real big. I worked for a landscaping co. in Long Valley whom has since moved to Colorado. (Saxton Landscaping to be exact) He did the whole shebang. Made a good living and enjoyed life. I just want the same and am willing to make it happen. I even will work PT for another scaper to fill gaps in my schedule. Bartend at night.....whatever it takes to make it happen. My wife is on board and I don't really have anything holding me up. It is my concern for my family...my daughter....and me being 37. I think I can get stuff up and running in 5-7 years so that I am just doing hardscapes...running a machine Case 500 series and pointing at what needs to be done. Yeah....dreams...but you know how that is. You can sit and watch, but it is the shakers that make it big...real big with proper money management, a great portfolio, and a trustworthy crew (that might be challenging)

BTW.....what area in Jersey do you service? Years in the game....and did you find that your first year out of the gate was profitable. (don't mean to pry....but I am looking to make 35-40 clear with the combo package and then put the icing on the cake with plowing) for the first year. This would put me in the same spot I am now minus the taxes the good ole gvt takes from me in the corp world.
Thanks for your post....and nice to meet you.

Mike

[bahamamills]

Just caught up on the thread and it sounds like you have thought things out pretty much. Noting the time of year what you may think about doing is refining a plan and financials. This can be done while you are still employed. Look at what you can get rid of and start picking up some equipment, get your LLC or incorporated while you have the salary.

I know all to well how you feel about the corporate life and I am deep into it and have survived layoffs and downsizing at my company to the tune of around 60K people. My spirit is needless to say broken for that kind of company. That being said I have the salary and benefits that can not be replaced currently.

What I have done is started to buy additional equipment that I can use and if I do decide to break out I own what i need. I have top end equipement and numerous friends in the business. Another anchor is my son is just starting college but he has also been doing landscaping for 4 years now and will also be prepared if he chooses to follow that route. I hope regardless of what he does he can also be prepared with a trade or 3. I would like him to be licensed to do high end outdoor lighting and the pesticide route as well before going all the way in.

Keep this in mind as well, while I know almost everything is going to India these days I can see a time once they become use to higher salaries and higher standards of living the jobs will have to come back. There is always a market for Project Management and especially if you are certfied. If things do not work out you could easily get back into the workplace somewhere.

[Mike821]

Right on.....good point...get the equipment while I am still working in the corp world. That is my plan of attack if I decide to make the switch. In addition I will work on my pesticide license. Six months would be more than enough time to obtain that...so I think. I just go to work each day and just hate life knowing that the once so called, "great company with job security" is now the, "you are lucky you have a job" type of deal. I don't have tax bennies and have to listen to some loaf of bread tell me that I should put some more time and effort to make a substantial impact. Goals and objectives are ridiculous these days here. They want the world, 70 hrs a week for less pay and at the end of the year a crappy 4%. ( if I am lucky) I really bust my hump and to know that the days of working for a large pharm company that has no respect for you sucks. I will be lucky to make it 15 years and by that time they will have yanked my pension plan like most other co's I.E Verizon. Guess I have been rubbed the wrong way and had many friends outsourced....that is a real drag. Id rather be my own boss and one day hand my corp monkey suit in. While I do that I will be handing out business cards trying to set up some accounts...lol. Stress is a killer....and my job is stressful. I’d rather take my project management experience and apply it to my own business. Just a matter of having the stones to take the chance.

As fpr my little girl......well, she will have a trade and an education if I have it my way. You are right when you say they have to have both. (ed. and trade) Crazy not to afford a loved one the opp. to have a backup. GREAT POINT!!!

BTW….not to knock the corp world, but for some it just is not the right place.

[DLAWNS]

Mike

I am 24 years old and have been in this business for almost 7 years. By no means have I done everything, but in the last 7 years I have worked for numerous companies as well as being self employed. For example, I have no clue about hardscape or irrigation. But Ive worked for Brickman for 1 year, a multimillion dollar company in Florida for 2 years, a smaller but very well respected company in Toms River, NJ for 1 year as well as about 6 smaller companies that were horrible to work for(no paychecks on time,drug infested,low pay,etc.) I've held numerous positions such as crew foreman, spray tech, horticulture supervisor, even being the owners right hand man. I started my company in Florida as a part timer while I worked for the bigger company and once I realized the area I was in wasn't very profitable, I moved back to good old Jersey. I worked for someone else for 1 year to kind of re acclimate myself to the way things work in the lawn business in New Jersey and during that time did what you are doing now, all of the research, making contacts,pricing out equipment,etc. I can't really say at this point of the season if I've made 40,000 for the season. Not that I wouldn't tell you I'm just not sure yet. To tell you the truth probably not this year. However I'm in a totally different boat than you are, I have been married for 1 year, no children and have very little overhead. I had some money that helped me get started and my wife carries health insurance with her job also.
As for obtaining your pesticide license here is a link to the website you would need: http://www.state.nj.us/dep/enforcement/pcp/ . I think you need 40 hours of documented pesticide experience under a licensed applicator and need to take a training class and then pass the core and either the turf and/or the ornamental test. However there are other ways if the 40 hours is unavailable to you due to a current job. You would have to check on the website or call their phone number.
Also, I service, the Toms River, Manchester areas. I also branch into Bayville, Pine Beach, and Brick. This area is flooded with lco's but as long as you separate yourself with quality work and great customer service you will be successful as you probably already know.
If you have any other questions feel free to ask or even private message me and I can try to go further into detail.

Bill

[ed2hess]

Hmm a newborn on the way? :

A very strange time to quit a job indeed....I would never go full time at this point. Since you seem to have a lot of drive and support from your wife I would go part time and start to built the business. What is the advantage of quitting....versus being laid off....what about unemployment? I doubt that you will make $40K the first year I would bet that is the high average for most solo guys that have been in the business for awhile....but maybe you plan to run crews? Plenty of workers in your area?

[Mike821]

I am not planning to leave work until the spring Feb-March. Here in NJ that is the prime time for the flyers to go out. People are looking for that spring clean-up and a good scaper to do so. As for workers....yes there are guys in my area that are looking for work. Might I add and I don't know if I stated before...we have saved so that I can take a two month hit with little if any income. My wife actually is doing better than I am. She has the bennies and would be the one floating mine. Yeah I can get a mower and start PT, but that would limit me to the jobs I can take on. What I want to do is 3 days of mowing and 3 installation/hardscaping. Possible...in fact if my marketing is done correctly I can start mid year with another worker. I have access to a rental shop that has everything from bobcats...to wedding tents. Here in NJ they will rent you a coffee cup if there was a demand. Prices are not that bad....and you do not have to maintain the equipment and find a home for it. Just pick up and make money. (this is to start) My main issue is that I am flat lined in the current role I am in. I don't have a college education, and am in a position that might be farmed out to India. That happens down the road and I am sitting with no job and wondering what I am going to apply for when people have their masters in flying a kite or some crap. On the job scaping your resume is your portfolio. Your rep is by word of mouth or name recognition. They will never outsource landscaping....and if they do I am going to move to the north pole. (they don't like the cold) The skilled trades are the place to be. Security and everyone has grass....needs masons....and wants home improvements. I don't care what the economy is like.....there is always someone that is making bank. After all it's the corporate folk that need scapers. For every scaper there is 100+ corporate drones to feed us green. Give me a choice between a 300K a year job or a ZTR and some hard scaping 100K a year.....it is a no brainer for me. I would take the scaping job hands down. That is my passion and is what keeps me in check. Just a matter of time....we will see.

Thanks for the comments....and if you have any suggestions, pass them on.

Mike