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View Full Version : Stone......wet


tthomass
07-21-2007, 12:11 AM
Show some of the process for those who don't know.....

tthomass
07-21-2007, 12:12 AM
gett'n ready for the wet stuff

tthomass
07-21-2007, 12:14 AM
mov'n along......

Dirty Water
07-21-2007, 01:06 AM
I hope you guys didn't hand mix and wheel that entire slab. My back hurts just thinking about it.

We used to call a pump truck for hard to access jobs like that. It was only $170.

When your going to wet mortar bluestone ontop, do you just rod off the concrete and run a bullfloat over it, or do you have to get it smoother?

tthomass
07-21-2007, 01:20 AM
The two of us wheeled it from the street around back............down hill was nice. It was 3 yds. I use the trucks that mix on site.......that way if I need 2.7yds I can pay for 2.7 and not 3. I then don't have the left over .3 yds to dispose of.

*I always use fiber in my mix.

As you see it is how I let it dry. I was taught to smooth it and this and that but I don't agree. I spread with with a hard rake and get it to 'grade'. I then leave it rough on purpose. When I put my bed of mortar down to set a stone it goes into all the cracks and voids locking together MUCH better. You also increase the surface area that you are attaching to. Think of it as grabbing something with two fingers vs five.....five = stronger hold.

On larger patios I do pull out a 2x4 and drag it. Being the small distance I just eye balled this one.

WorkinIt
07-21-2007, 08:17 AM
Where'd you get it? What do you call it?

ChampionLS
07-21-2007, 01:35 PM
I wouldn't have left that black corrugated pipe there for the roof drain. They aren't meant to have fines and solids run through them. The corrugations clog easily. That pipe is best suited for french drains. I would have replaced it with smooth schedule 20 PVC. Hate to see a clog under your new Bluestone Patio.

tthomass
07-21-2007, 05:01 PM
All the downspouts are buried and linked together. I'm runn'n sch20 PVC from the gutter to the patio. One reason for using is the grade change.....it goes up hill before if goes back down vs 5 elbows and redoing the downspouts that had been previously buried.

tthomass
07-21-2007, 09:42 PM
Where'd you get it? What do you call it?

The stone is just flagstone. The wall is.......I actually don't remember. Its a pallet of dry stack stone, its what I vanier with.


Got a Luck Stone quarry close by?

crab
07-21-2007, 09:56 PM
;) it all looks like blue stone to me,flag stone is a very general term.keep it crispy cracker .

tthomass
07-21-2007, 10:05 PM
haha, luckily I'm in the shade on this job!

I don't know. Common name is just 'flagstone' here. Yeah you can call it just blue stone.

crab
07-21-2007, 10:12 PM
shade is very nice,I've just seen a million things called ''flagstone'',not a cut to you you ,hey at least its not paver's!.

mrusk
07-21-2007, 10:16 PM
I am doing the blue stone walk this next week at my big job. I wish i'd talked the people into a wet layed walk now!

tthomass
07-21-2007, 10:36 PM
There's mrusk.......wondered what was keeping you. Wet lay, at last.

Yeah wet is nice but I take each job on a case to case basis. I just proposed one in the woods with lots of plant material around it.....dry lay. This one pictured, never would have done dry.

Rain screwed me yesterday so I go up early and put in time today to try and catch up on the job. The brick soldier row will go around once the stone is set. The wall will have a flag cap.

I've got the ICPI etc for pavers and know the whole deal but I just don't run into pavers. Everything is always stone. I don't push pavers at all, I always prefer stone and normally if a competitor is offering pavers I talk the customer out of it and sell them on stone. EP Henry and Techo Bloc have some nice stuff, they are who I use, and I don't mind a paver job but I just prefer stone. Its slower, its heavier and harder but I really enjoy it.......that and the fact that most masons here suck, make a mess and do not do near the quality work = I win. You should see the neighbors house, I used them as an example of what not to do when selling the patio haha.

mrusk
07-21-2007, 11:02 PM
There's mrusk.......wondered what was keeping you. Wet lay, at last.

Yeah wet is nice but I take each job on a case to case basis. I just proposed one in the woods with lots of plant material around it.....dry lay. This one pictured, never would have done dry.

Rain screwed me yesterday so I go up early and put in time today to try and catch up on the job. The brick soldier row will go around once the stone is set. The wall will have a flag cap.

I've got the ICPI etc for pavers and know the whole deal but I just don't run into pavers. Everything is always stone. I don't push pavers at all, I always prefer stone and normally if a competitor is offering pavers I talk the customer out of it and sell them on stone. EP Henry and Techo Bloc have some nice stuff, they are who I use, and I don't mind a paver job but I just prefer stone. Its slower, its heavier and harder but I really enjoy it.......that and the fact that most masons here suck, make a mess and do not do near the quality work = I win. You should see the neighbors house, I used them as an example of what not to do when selling the patio haha.

Whats keeping me? I worked 7am-8pm today. And then we are going out for 1/2 a day tommorro. I have a client moving home from over seas into a new house on august 3rd and i have a LONG was to go. Its going to be a long next 2 weeks. I have not left a job site before 7.30 at night all week.

Your def right about most mason sucking at it. They just do not see to care as much. I am going to push my customer hard for wet layed around the pool deck. 1500 sq feet of wet layed blue stone would look good!

WorkinIt
07-22-2007, 12:00 AM
Yeah, I know flag, but usually see flagstone as random. What do they call that cut pattern?

No Luck Stone here - not many good suppliers here at all. I think Luck is based in Richmond - about 5-6 hours from here.

tthomass
07-22-2007, 12:42 AM
workinit, Just hit up stone suppliers and you'll find what you're looking for.....I guess? I'm not in your area but all else fails, order.

Here, when someone says flagstone it means "squares".........otherwise we say irregular flagstone for the random/broken pieces.

Maybe we should do stone like plants, Latin.

tthomass
07-22-2007, 12:43 AM
g'luck......

Whats keeping me? I worked 7am-8pm today. And then we are going out for 1/2 a day tommorro. I have a client moving home from over seas into a new house on august 3rd and i have a LONG was to go. Its going to be a long next 2 weeks. I have not left a job site before 7.30 at night all week.

Your def right about most mason sucking at it. They just do not see to care as much. I am going to push my customer hard for wet layed around the pool deck. 1500 sq feet of wet layed blue stone would look good!

AJ Lawnscapes
07-22-2007, 02:43 AM
Looks like what I"m going to get into on Monday. Except it is Pavestone.

Gonna be a first.

Your's looks fantastic. I can't wait to start mine.

Thank for inspiration!

tthomass
07-22-2007, 02:39 PM
I had to go to three places getting stone I liked. I tell my customers the stones will be free of busted corners, rough edges, impressions and so on. I can usually grab what I need at Luck Stone but it had been picked though before I got there. So a 1/2 day was consumed there + rain I'm 1 1/2 days behind on this job. This week will be a long one, I'm heading to the OBX for a few days and a lot to get done before............yee ha!

Post pics of your job along the way. You would be suprised how helpful it is for some people wanting to learn by posting pictures.

Fairway Land & Lawn
07-22-2007, 03:18 PM
What part of the OBX are you going to?

tthomass
07-22-2007, 03:53 PM
Familar with Roanoke Island? My uncle's house is next to the aquarium on the sound. We rented out a house to stay in vs hotel. Got a family reunion + some R&R......can't wait.

tthomass
07-25-2007, 09:26 PM
Stone is down, brick tomorrow. Something about the camera angle makes the wall look like its leaning back in the 2nd pic, its not.

tthomass
07-25-2007, 09:29 PM
Patience...

tthomass
07-25-2007, 09:31 PM
You'd be suprised how 'positive' a radio can make a jobsite.....keep frustration down, good noise etc

mrusk
07-25-2007, 09:33 PM
Looks good! How many sq feet are you laying a day?

tthomass
07-25-2007, 09:42 PM
I got screwed on this job actually. My daily goal is 100 SF. Making cuts etc slows you down a bit but I had 3 problems on this job.

#1.........rain
#2.........stone, I had to go to 3 places to get stone I was satisfied with
#3.........stone, as much as 1/2" off, I've never dealt with that.....usually 1/4" off is the most you see and is not a problem to work with. Split it 1/8" on both sides and you hardly notice.

#3 is being taken care of, I'm switching to an imported stone from China, same price of $4 SF

neversatisfiedj
07-26-2007, 08:13 AM
Yes , I have to have my MUSIC !

Captains Landscape
07-26-2007, 08:46 PM
tthomas,
Nice work, It's called Thermal blue stone here, it undergoes a thermal process, which creates a very flat surface with uniform coloring. That Stone you will use from China is the same as what I use. I'm assuming your current project has stone from Brazil. Just as a heads up, You will find that the Chinese stone is much more uniform, but very VERY fragile. It is also gray, but falls under the Blue stone category. I seal mine with a wet-look application to bring out more color.

tthomass
07-26-2007, 09:06 PM
I want to say it comes out of PA actually.........I don't really know. Maybe they're just a big importer but I've heard a few guys say that. I just go to the yard and buy it.

Yeah I figured on the China stone. It sounds like tile.

I'll probably post up pictures tomorrow of the patio, not covered in dust.

tthomass
08-02-2007, 06:58 PM
....................

tthomass
08-02-2007, 07:03 PM
............................

tthomass
08-02-2007, 07:07 PM
Another week until soil and sod + acid wash......awaiting a fence company to do their thing.

Cut around the pipe was fun with a TS-400.

Humble Earth Mover
08-02-2007, 08:01 PM
Looks good. Mitered corner is a nice touch, but the 45's look a little off. Don't you find a mortar bag or a little drier mix to work better for pointing? I don't mean hold up longer, I mean less messy. The less acid I put on my wet laid the better. Other than that, looks super square, nice job! Can't wait to see it backfilled and 'scaped.

Oh, and I would've used a 4 1/2" grinder for the pipe cut.

jwholden
08-02-2007, 10:01 PM
Very nice project! I like the way you used the brick border to frame your patio.

Are there any issues with the 4 x 4 posts that support the upper deck being surrounded in concrete. Will that lead to rotting?

Grn Mtn
08-02-2007, 10:32 PM
...Are there any issues with the 4 x 4 posts that support the upper deck being surrounded in concrete. Will that lead to rotting?

its pressure treated, won't rot for years, regular wood would rot. Thats why when I put in split rail fencing I just hard tamp the earth.

Nice Blue Stone Flag Stone Earth Tempered product there. Just worked on a walkway project with the same stuff but drylaid. How does it hold up to freeze thaw?

DVS Hardscaper
08-02-2007, 11:11 PM
I'm not liking the pipe detail.

I would have either:

1) talked the client into having their roof gutter re-directed to the left, along with new down spouts, thus totally eliminating the pipe from the patio area

OR

2) Being it is a mortared job on a slab, I may have just let the water wash over the patio.


But the pipe config is too busy. It's kinda like putting a big CB attena on a Jaguar!

tthomass
08-03-2007, 12:01 AM
The mortar is a bit wet......it was his first batch but he did good. After sponging it, he then learned in addition to hearing, why it is better to have a more dry mix.

As I remember that particular corner was the only one that wasn't quite as true as I would have liked.

The wood is good.......both masons I worked under did it differently but I have not seen any issue with it as is on any projects mine or others. As for rotting, nope.

The pipe I am not a fan of. In the future the house will be covered with wood siding to over lay the ugly concrete/stamped brick look. At which time the gutter will most likely be removed and a new piece of stone set. Yes, its a pita. In the mean time a planter will go there. Another mason built a large wall in the back.........did just that and left the job. I had to come in and finish up behind him with fill and sod thus pushing them over budget. The patio itself was over budget too and it is unfortunite that sometimes things have to be delayed. Again, the intent is wood siding and lose the down spout. You're right DVS. The problem I had with water washing over the patio is algae + shade + stains. *Also, the bend is due to the foundation. I cut out a good portion or else it would have been another 8" out into the patio.

Speaking of split rail........that is what I am waiting to be put in before sod. I phased that separate because I did not want the fence guys walking on my sod.

Thanks for the feedback.

bullethead
08-03-2007, 07:49 PM
I'm not liking the pipe detail.

I would have either:

1) talked the client into having their roof gutter re-directed to the left, along with new down spouts, thus totally eliminating the pipe from the patio area

OR

2) Being it is a mortared job on a slab, I may have just let the water wash over the patio.


But the pipe config is too busy. It's kinda like putting a big CB attena on a Jaguar!

It would be nice (cleaner looking) to bring d/s closer to deck before connecting. Over, the long haul it's cleaner to tie in d/s's as opposed to draining over the deck. That being said - just paint the current d/s plumbing to match color of house

bullethead
08-03-2007, 07:59 PM
tthomas - I was laughing about your comment regarding the lack of squareness on the sawcut flagstone. We waste so much time truing up sawcut stone - I am about to sit down and see if we could do it ourselves as competitively.

Anyway, a couple of months ago we were working on a clients house and we could not locate any sawcut buckskin flagstone. Fortunately, the client manufactures oilfield service equipment and has a high pressure water saw - we brought him slabs of the stone and he cut them PERFECTLY square (I think his tolerances are something ridiculous like 1/1000th of an inch) Didn't have any problem working with that material - wish it was affordable to crank out mass quantities of stone on his saw.

ChampionLS
08-05-2007, 12:54 PM
I would have spent the extra $10 on a new down spout, and a simple flush fitted adaptor. Way too much attention drawn to the white PVC.

The hardscape work looks great as usual. I probably wouldn't have cut the square into 45's on the corners. Why does the patio end short by the doors?

tthomass
08-05-2007, 03:33 PM
Thanks ChampionLS.......I don't see what you are talking about ending short by the doors? The patio is extended to the outside of the doors.

*btw, shape of patio was determined by the deck + their back yard goes only about 30' from the deck. Wanted as much yard as possible.

The gutter will eventually be gone all together when wood siding is put over the concrete. In the mean time the PVC will be painted to match.

No 45's on the corners??? Can't agree there.......I think 45's look 100 times better.

ChampionLS
08-05-2007, 11:10 PM
I guess I meant to say, howcome not a rectangular patio?

The corners look good cut in a 45. Maybe just not the inside square piece. We usually make the same corner cuts. the inside is a half holland, and the outer two pieces are cut to a 45.

tthomass
08-06-2007, 12:06 AM
Gotcha.

The shape all goes back to space. They wanted just a landing outside the door and keep the patio along the same lines as the deck....it was dirt before. Its a fairly simple and straight forward patio and really all they were looking for in order to clean up the area under the deck making it usable space + to keep as much of their back yard as possible. The back yard was a big slope and a crappy mason built a 6' tall wall to level off their back yard making it usable. They've got a son thats around 1 1/2yrs old and wanting the backyard space to run around in etc.

More work will come out of this job from landscaping the rest of the property in the future + great neighborhood contacts. I wish all of my customers were as good to work with as these people, I'd be spoiled.