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coopers
07-21-2007, 05:10 PM
I went to the backhoe rodeo at my local Case dealer, it was pretty cool. A lot of nice machines! Here is the link to the photos: http://flickr.com/photos/10033251@N04/sets/72157600938548816/

I didn't feel like resizing them all so I just put them on flickr. When you click on the picture, at the top right above the pic. will be various little tools/links, click on the magnifying glass icon with the 'plus' in the middle and you can see them in their original size.

Blake
WA

ksss
07-21-2007, 05:23 PM
Did you participate? If so how did you do? I was like 5 plus minutes, not even competetive with some of these guys.

Scag48
07-21-2007, 06:35 PM
Wish I could have made it down, too much going on. This working 7 days a week is taking a toll on me, I should have taken today off and headed down to compete. Oh well. My car needs $1,000 worth of work, hard to justify taking a day off :rolleyes:

coopers
07-22-2007, 03:33 AM
Scag, I'm in the same boat. I work 7 days a week, two days a week I work 14 hours and the other week I work 6 days a week with three 14 hour days. It sucks. I had $1800K of work to do on my truck but I found some killer deals and ended up only doing $900 damage to my bank account. Most of my week though I'm working 330-midnight (except for those 14 hour days) so I had time to squeeze down there.

It was fun, I did not participate (to answer KSSS'S question), I wasn't 100% sure I was gunna have time to go down there. You can definitely tell which operators you might consider for hiring or others that you'd want to pass on.:confused:

Blake
WA

dozerman21
07-22-2007, 11:47 PM
I made it out to the Rodeo that was held here yesterday. It was set up pretty nice. They had 6 backhoes going at once. I didn't have time to wait around for a chance to compete. I'd guess there was at least 100 contestants. I don't have enough time in a backhoe to be nearly as smooth and quick as a lot of the guys, but I don't think I would have embarrassed myself too bad.:)

The best part of it was they had some machines that you could demo in the dealer's proving ground area. I thought that was pretty cool. They had a 430 skid, a CT440, a large excavator (don't remember what model), a backhoe, and a 850K dozer. I ran the skid and CTL, and really wanted to run the excavator, but I didn't have time to wait for it. It had the longest line, and guys were taking their time.

My thoughts on the CT440: I hadn't ever ran a Case CTL. It had hands controls that were smooth and easy, like typical Case skids. I wish the controls were farther apart though. Just like our 1845C, after a long day in one, they feel too cramped for my taste.

Performance wise, I thought it did O.K. overall, but it could be better. In its defense, I am used to running larger CTL's that just have a lot more grunt. It would push a full bucket good and it graded nice, but I thought it could have dug better before the back end wanted to start jumping around. I also thought it was too slow. The response (Fwd/Rev) could have been better, and the travel speed felt slow. Not a bad machine by any means, but I didn't see anything to make me like it as much as some different makes that are the same size.

I hopped in the 430, just figuring it was also hands controls, but it had pilots. I took me a minute to get my bearings to figure out how to move the friggin' thing, and not look like a jack@ss!:laugh: The controls were very quick and don't take hardly any movement to make her scoot. I didn't run the 430 for as long as the CT440, but I just am not a big fan of pilots. I can see how someone who's never ran a skid would like them over other controls, and I can also see they are very low effort. As long as the hands controls remain pretty effortless and smooth, I think I'll stay with them. It feels much more natural to me, and I like the fact that you do more movement when operating. I can run mine all day, and the controls don't bother me at all. I think it's good though that Case has made pilots an option. I know a lot of you guys will only buy pilots. Both machines had cabs, which was probably their weakest points. I know it's in their plans to do a revamp, but they're just too plain with limited visibility to the front. The 430 has the newer style door, but it still has probably the poorest of the ones that I've ran. I like the performance of the 430. Not so much this one due to the lack of experience of the pilots, but I've ran others before. These were just my impressions of the machines. BTW, the blinged out Batmobile hoe was pretty wicked looking in person!:cool2: (Or maybe it's just the blue trim to the right that makes the machine look good!)

I was a good time and I'm glad Case opened their doors to everybody. Here's a few more pics:

Fieldman12
07-23-2007, 05:15 AM
That is interesting to here how the Case skid/CTL compares to other machines. I must admit I'm partial to Case machines and even though I love Cat I could easily run all Case machines. I would also like to try the track hoe out and I would like to play on that dozer. I use to see allot of Case dozers around here but for some reason they seem to be all Cat or Deere anymore around here. I like the flip of the cab. Like I said would love to have some seat time on it.

dozerman21
07-23-2007, 07:08 AM
Case made a really good engineering move when they made the cabs of their K Series dozers flip over like that. No other companies cabs can do that to my knowledge. I know Cat and Deere don't offer it. One guy can tilt it over in about 10 minutes, and it allows you to reach virtually anything that you might need to in case of a repair. It sure beats dropping belly pans!

Deere has the market around here with their finish hystat dozers. The Case K Series are nice, but the smallest and lightest machine that they offer is the 650, which compares in price to a D3 or 450J Deere, but weighs the same and is longer than a D5 or 650J Deere. I've ran all three makes and the Deere and Case were very close. The Case controls felt better, the Deere pushes as good, weighing 2K lbs. less. I was disappointed with the Cat. Until you get to a D6 or bigger, the smaller dozers aren't as polished as the other two. The G Series is based off Deere's H Series, and has been out for a while. I thought the controls were jerky on the D3 I ran. If Cat comes out with a revamp to their finish dozers, and Case offers a smaller hystat, it could get real competitive. I'd give the nod to Deere for now though.

Construct'O
07-23-2007, 07:52 AM
The sprocket teeth are different on the 850 looks like they run inside the rail between the rail bushings instead of the normal teeth running on the track bushing.

Wonder how that will last??? Just something i noticed.Did you?

dozerman21
07-23-2007, 09:54 PM
The sprocket teeth are different on the 850 looks like they run inside the rail between the rail bushings instead of the normal teeth running on the track bushing.

Wonder how that will last??? Just something i noticed.Did you?

Nice catch! I've seen them on a few of the K Series Case dozers. I think they call it a "relieved" sprocket. It's an option you can get on the LT models. I don't know all the technical terms, but it's supposed to take some of the impact off the rollers and bushings by keeping a more constant drive. I don't have any experience with them, I've always bought the standard sprockets. I'm not sure what you mean by running on the track bushing.:confused: I believe their the same as a standard sprocket, running between the rail bushings.

I can see how they could help, and I'd like to try them on my next set of tracks. Sprockets always seem to be the first to go for me.

Construct'O
07-23-2007, 10:33 PM
Nice catch! I've seen them on a few of the K Series Case dozers. I think they call it a "relieved" sprocket. It's an option you can get on the LT models. I don't know all the technical terms, but it's supposed to take some of the impact off the rollers and bushings by keeping a more constant drive. I don't have any experience with them, I've always bought the standard sprockets. I'm not sure what you mean by running on the track bushing.:confused: I believe their the same as a standard sprocket, running between the rail bushings.

I can see how they could help, and I'd like to try them on my next set of tracks. Sprockets always seem to be the first to go for me.

To me on the old style sprockets the bushing in the rails are centered in the cup of the sprocket.Where on these they are spaced farther apart and the top edge actually runs inside the rail between the bushings which inturn the new sprocket is only touching the sides of two bushing in between them and are not center on the bushing it's self.

With out being there to run or see them better it is hard to explain,Just an interesting concept,would like to hear more about how it works out later down the road.

Cat new system is called system 1,which is suppose to have as much as 50 to 70 percent more life ,but new system put on older dozers runs abot 30 grand:rolleyes:

ksss
07-23-2007, 11:09 PM
I ran a 440 the other day that was pilots for the first time since running the Prototype machine. It was nice. There is a hesitation in going forward from backward. I asked about it and it is some kind of system protection. The pilots are good but the CASE servo controls are so good that it it really takes away from the pilots IMHO. I will have to think about what I will do when ordering my next machine.

The cabs are an issue. I thought the visibility in the 440 cab was very poor when it first hit the ground but really I have had no issues with it. It seals better than the all glass door as is on the larger 400 series machines. The cab controls are much better on the smaller 400 series than the larger. They definetely need to get with the cab redesign, I hope they can make it more affordable than CAT has done according to the rumors, but I doubt it. If you want luxury it will be like ponying up for the SLT package in a GMC I am sure.



It surprises me that you thought the 440 could have dug better. Even if your used to larger machines the 440 I think is pretty impressive for its size. Actually I was blown away by its ability compared to the others. I have not run a current production machine maybe they are not the same. Around here the 440 CT is now out selling the TK machines. They have yet to sell a 450CT. The TK machines that are moving tend to be the 150 size machines.

Tigerotor77W
07-23-2007, 11:28 PM
The G Series is based off Deere's H Series, and has been out for a while. I thought the controls were jerky on the D3 I ran. If Cat comes out with a revamp to their finish dozers, and Case offers a smaller hystat, it could get real competitive.

First, there are hints -- even on Cat's news releases -- about new models to join the family. It takes a careful eye to catch them, but I'm starting to get impatient myself...

but alas! Perception matters. The G-series actually is not based on the Deere H-series; the G-series was in development when the H-series came out. You could argue that Cat didn't do its homework, but here's one of those circumstances when one manufacturer catches the rest of the industry off-guard (kinda like the M-series motor graders or Komatsu's D51).

dozerman21
07-24-2007, 09:09 PM
I ran a 440 the other day that was pilots for the first time since running the Prototype machine. It was nice. There is a hesitation in going forward from backward. I asked about it and it is some kind of system protection. The pilots are good but the CASE servo controls are so good that it it really takes away from the pilots IMHO. I will have to think about what I will do when ordering my next machine.

The cabs are an issue. I thought the visibility in the 440 cab was very poor when it first hit the ground but really I have had no issues with it. It seals better than the all glass door as is on the larger 400 series machines. The cab controls are much better on the smaller 400 series than the larger. They definetely need to get with the cab redesign, I hope they can make it more affordable than CAT has done according to the rumors, but I doubt it. If you want luxury it will be like ponying up for the SLT package in a GMC I am sure.



It surprises me that you thought the 440 could have dug better. Even if your used to larger machines the 440 I think is pretty impressive for its size. Actually I was blown away by its ability compared to the others. I have not run a current production machine maybe they are not the same. Around here the 440 CT is now out selling the TK machines. They have yet to sell a 450CT. The TK machines that are moving tend to be the 150 size machines.

KSSS- I think overall, the 440CT felt like a descent performer. I guess my first impressions that I thought it was nothing great were because of Case's history of building skids that in the past have outperformed most of the competition, IMO. On top of that, Case was one of the last to release a CTL, so they could have taken the pros and cons of other machines, along with expectations of guys like us, and built something better. I'm partial to Case, so I'm probably a little harder on what I expect from them. I'd still like to run a 450CT, but I've got a feeling my thoughts will be similar.

The Case CTLs aren't selling here at all. I live in a pretty big city with skids and compact track loaders out the wazoo, and I've only seen a couple Case machines outside of the dealership. The dealer pushes Takeuchi much harder, and there aren't a whole lot of those either, but definetly more than the Case CTLs. Hopefully they won't sit still and they'll try to improve on them. While I don't like the cabs, the 430 I demoed didn't let hardly any dust in, and it cooled well. The ground was very hard as well, and that could have played a part in the digging performance.

First, there are hints -- even on Cat's news releases -- about new models to join the family. It takes a careful eye to catch them, but I'm starting to get impatient myself...
but alas! Perception matters. The G-series actually is not based on the Deere H-series; the G-series was in development when the H-series came out. You could argue that Cat didn't do its homework, but here's one of those circumstances when one manufacturer catches the rest of the industry off-guard (kinda like the M-series motor graders or Komatsu's D51).
Tig- Everybody and their uncle has told me Cat based their G Series after Deere's H, and they weren't all Deere guys.:) One was actually a Cat salesman. He said went through a Deere and improved on what they had. Either way, the G Series hasn't been a big hit from the guys who don't buy all Cat equipment. I'd like to hear what they have in store for their finish dozers. Keep me posted if you come across info that you can share.

Construct'O- I think I know what you're saying. I was under the impression that the new sprocket still catches on the same part of the bushings, the difference is you're supposed to get more constant bite. I've only seen these once in person. I'll get some up close pics the next time I get some parts. I think that 850K should still be on the lot.

Tigerotor77W
07-25-2007, 12:31 AM
Tig- Everybody and their uncle has told me Cat based their G Series after Deere's H, and they weren't all Deere guys.:) One was actually a Cat salesman. He said went through a Deere and improved on what they had. Either way, the G Series hasn't been a big hit from the guys who don't buy all Cat equipment. I'd like to hear what they have in store for their finish dozers. Keep me posted if you come across info that you can share.


I'm afraid I can't comment on anything, but a bunch of stuff has probably changed (it's been a long -- LONG! -- time since I actually got a chance to operate one of the prototypes). :(

I spoke with an engineer who worked on the G-series; he said it was in development long before the H-series came out. Either way, Deere scored a huge point. I argue that the H-series converted die-hard Cat customers to Deere for the first time, and from then on out, the rest of the conversion was easy... good excavators, good loaders, and now a good dozer.