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View Full Version : Bobcat sold


Tigerotor77W
07-30-2007, 10:42 AM
... to Doosan (formerly Daewoo)

http://www.reuters.com/article/hotStocksNews/idUSN3023327120070730

tallrick
07-30-2007, 11:44 AM
... to Doosan (formerly Daewoo)

http://www.reuters.com/article/hotStocksNews/idUSN3023327120070730

Let the outsourcing begin!

cat2
07-30-2007, 12:06 PM
OK is this a good or bad thing?:hammerhead:

Dirty Water
07-30-2007, 12:11 PM
It means that your going to start seeing orange Doosan-Daewoo skidsteers.

Fieldman12
07-30-2007, 02:14 PM
I think they went to not as good of a company and so much for made in America.

cat2
07-30-2007, 02:24 PM
I think they went to not as good of a company and so much for made in America.


I think this is really going to hurt Bobcat. What does everyone else think?

AWJ Services
07-30-2007, 04:27 PM
They will probally still build under the Bobcat name and still build in America.

They will eventually assimilate Bobcat and the Doosan line into one.
As much as they paid for "Bobcat" there will be no way they will get rid of them and there assets immediatly.


It means that your going to start seeing orange Doosan-Daewoo skidsteers.

I think so as well but I think they will keep the Bobcat name .

ksss
07-30-2007, 05:43 PM
Can you believe that!

I doubt you will see Bobcat turn orange.

After spending that kind of money I would not look for Doosan to make a lot of changes. They are not likely to mess with the reciepe anytime soon. They need to make their money back and alienating customers is not going to do that. The fact that Bobcat is now foreign owned is enough right now I am sure. I need to make some calls and see what the word in ND is.

dozerman21
07-30-2007, 05:56 PM
I guess that means they will be orange with white wheels!:)

I wish they hadn't gone overseas. Hopefully it won't cost jobs in America. I'm sure they're the main employer for that area of N.D.

ksss
07-30-2007, 06:24 PM
Bobcat is the main employer in the Gwinner area and the only one that pays a good wage. Bobcat employs a lot people. I sure hope they don't disappear. I sent some emails out hopefully I will get some inside scoop on the deal shortly.

Fieldman12
07-30-2007, 09:40 PM
You know I like Bocat stuff. I mean lets face it the machines we run where all based off the orginal Bobcats with many updates over the years. Who knows what allot of us would be doing if the Bobcat never came about. Hopefully they keep the people in the US still working but lets face it the bulk of the money will go to another country. I agree with ksss, I think they will not change allot with Bobcat for now. They may eventually cheapen things up on them but it is a few years away. I kind of think that they may do what Fiat did to Case IH. So far for Case IH it has been a good thing for them. There is good and bad to this Im sure.

tallrick
07-30-2007, 10:26 PM
I wish we could go back to the time when America was #! and we grew businesses from scratch. That's how Bobcat started right? They used to copy us, I wonder if that will still be true in the future.

tnmtn
07-31-2007, 10:29 AM
i don't think this is good at all. as has been discussed on this forum many times bobcat has been falling a bit behind in some ways as more competition rapidly developes new units. the competition is crazy. so many makes. i would say the beginning of the end was actually when I/R got bobcat. after that it has been all downhill. too many bean counters and stockholders to answer to to be efficient. i don't think it will be long to see changes.

cat2
07-31-2007, 12:39 PM
I know I'm not buying another bobcat. I'm all JD from know on:dizzy: Guess I should change my avatar.

Gravel Rat
07-31-2007, 01:28 PM
Thats not good news it looks like Bobcat brand machines will be turning into cheap junk.

I don't beleive the quality will stay the same look at what happened to Western Star and Louisville Ford when Freighliner took them over.

I think its a sign of the times that its too expensive to build things in North America from regulations etc. Large long time companies are selling out to overseas companies.

See what happens with Bobcat but I think you will see some big changes the first one being the color scheme and the bobcat name.

Fieldman12
07-31-2007, 07:51 PM
I doubt very seriously they change anything with Bobcat anytime soon. To be honest to find out who owns them I think you wil have to look really close at the badge that has the serial model and other things. They spent the money and I bet they have a plan. They would be foolish to mess with Bobcat's reputation to much even though it is weaker than they use to be. They could either really do good things for Bobcat or terrible things. Time will tell but like i said before most of the money made is going to go to another country. Probably no matte what happens though Bobcat will never be what they where when they was there own company.

Construct'O
07-31-2007, 08:39 PM
Doosan just came out with 48-hour parts guarantee program,plus several new excavator models,wheel loaders,and wheel excavators, Bauma Expo.

With the new parts program they will need more new warehouses,Bobcat is located in central U.S. Might even make more jobs for Bobcat empolyees.The ceo's might need to be more worried !!!!!!!

They are into bigger excavator,not sure about the mini's,but Bobcat has mini's,so they can work off them to go along with the bigger line they have.

I see their Doosan skids, uses the Cummins engine.That might be something they will change in the Bobcat,not a bad change i would think for U.S. customers.

Something to think about anyway,might not be all gloom and doom???? Hopefully!

Fieldman12
07-31-2007, 10:22 PM
I know they make fork lifts also. I want to say a while back I saw in a video clip a Daewoo skid steer that appeared to be a New holland painted orange. I have not done any research though to verify Im correct. Not sure how good the quality is on Doosan stuff. I have seen some of the excavators but they have been few and far between. They better keep the Bobcat service up because i know that is one good thing at least around here they have going for them besides a good machine.

YellowDogSVC
07-31-2007, 11:04 PM
It probably could have been worse. I think the S. Koreans have a lot of technology that is on the edge. Some of the biggest and best ships are being built by S. Koreans and that technology is far beyond what we use in skid steers and CTLs. I think overall it will be a positive move and will keep the technology aspect of the machines on the cutting edge. Let's hope the jobs stay here. I imagine they will at least for machines. Don't know about attachments. Seems they could be made overseas and shipped cheaper.

Dirty Water
07-31-2007, 11:33 PM
I've talked to a few operators who run Doosan excavators (all the way up to 200 size) that have nothing but praise to say about them.

When you think about it, every major innovation for heavy equipment has come from oversea's in the last few decades.

Scag48
08-01-2007, 02:44 AM
48 hour parts guarantee? Most companies have that parts overnight deal. If they don't have it in stock they'll have it to you by the AM. I think Deere does this and Cat may do it as well. I've never had a problem with Cat parts at all, they seem to have just about everything all the time.

Fieldman12
08-01-2007, 04:31 PM
Deere is super when it comes to parts at least around here. They did move there warehouse though that was in Ohio to I think Canada which made allot of guys made but so far they have been good. The will allot of times leave the part out at the dealership for ya or even come in and open the place up for ya. I know this is a heavy equipment forum but in ag we are even in a tighter deadline than most on here. Every day that goes by cost bushels. It is very important we stay up and running all the time. That is why you see so much Deere and Case IH stuff around especially big equipment. Im pretty sure Cat is the same way. I dont think deere makes the best equipment but as far as ag and im sure construction they are hard to beat on service. Cat and Case are pretty good also. I know around here though Case use to make a great disk but allot of people have switched to Deere because the dealer always has to order parts.

Digdeep
08-01-2007, 10:17 PM
I think Doosan will try to cut costs. You don't pay $4.9B without cutting costs somewhere....finance rates, manufacturing, marketing, etc. I also wouldn't be too suprised to see Doosan engines or one of their affiliate's engines running in Bobcat machines in the future. Just another way to cut costs. Why pay Kubota for their engines when Doosan has a very large engine manufacturing capability. I also wouldn't be suprised to see Kubota introduce a skid steer next year if Doosan replaces their engines.

ksss
08-01-2007, 10:27 PM
I could see an engine replacement coming as being likely. I don't think that would be a bad thing.

JDSKIDSTEER
08-02-2007, 10:40 AM
I think if they do change engines you will see Kubota enter the skid steer market.

cat2
08-02-2007, 12:51 PM
I think bobcat is going to lose bussiness over this. Because people are not going to buy bobcat that has anything to do with South Korea more bobcats we buy more money another country is going to get and we don't want that. Bobcat is still first in the market isn't it? What is 2nd and 3rd and so on? I think the company that is gaining the most is John Deere. John Deere began to gain since they came out with the 300 series.

dogsluvtrux
08-02-2007, 02:35 PM
As a sales manager for a Bobcat dealership here in Illinois, we have been told a different story.

We've been informed (or at least led to infer) that Bobcat will essentially be left alone with the addition of a few new product lines. It was annouced yesterday that Bobcat would have a compact tractor to introduce by the end of 2007. Apparently Doosan owns part of Daedong (?), and Bobcat will be marketing their tractors here in the US...I believe they are already marketed under the name Kioti. Engine changes seem likely down the road (my opinion) and it seems that it's going to be hard to market a product whose slogan will be, "Proudly made in the USA...technically"

Fieldman12
08-02-2007, 05:33 PM
The slogan should say foreign owned and assembled in the USA to be correct. Most people for some reason anymore dont care about if things are made in the USA. I mean look around and you see foreign automobiles and everything else. I understand peoples reasoning behind this that they make good products at often a little cheaper price but what does this do to us as a country as a whole down the road. What will the future american generation do for jobs? It's already well proven around here that just because you go to college does not gurantee you a good paying job. Not everyone will be able to work for there selves either. We are based on a global economy and as most of you know the US dollar has fallen compared to what it use to be worth. Other countries dollar is now worth more than ours. The only issues that I see with this global econmy is seems like most countries that are much more poor than us have everything to gain from this. Seems like the US often has to step down a few steps out of the deal. Not so sure the average american can keep going backwards instead of forwards especially in pay. In a few months from now it will be business as usual with Bobcat. People will have dont forgot they are now foreign owned and most of that money is going to make another country rich. We once led the world now we are the slaves to the world or at least it looks like it is heading that way to me.

ksss
08-02-2007, 07:29 PM
The fact that Bobcat is now owned by S. Koreans will not have a major impact on sales. Does Deere lose sales because their excavators are made by Hitachi? CASE and Link Belt have expanded marketshare with their Sumitomo excavators, nobody cares they are made overseas and the bulk of the puchase price goes overseas. Same can be said for Toyota and Honda. I know they have factories here but the money makes it way to Japan. Situation will be the same with Doosan. Built in ND, but the money will not stop there. I spoke with a lead engineer friend of mine, and his words were they have not heard anything yet and they are "cautiously optimistic for the future". As long as Doosan stays true to the brand and does not rock the boat they will continue to sell machines. Should they make radical changes to the organization I would say all bets are off.

Most guys when comes to major equipment purchases, buy the product that will return the most for their investment. The bottom line trumps OEM company ownership for most guys (granted not everyone). If a Bobcat customer feels like Bobcat will be the best machine for his operation he will buy it. There really is not a lot of room in the business to let such things like company ownership influence purchasing decisions IMHO. The fact is like it or not its a global economy. I would prefer to buy strictly USA products. That is impossible as a dirt contractor. Every OEM has components that are built overseas. Everyone has product lines that come from some place other than the USA. I buy what I believe to make me the most profitable like most everyone else.

Also don't forget Bobcat has probably the best marketing people in the USA in any industry. By the time they are done putting a spin on this you'll forget who owns the company.

Fieldman12
08-02-2007, 08:59 PM
Thats exactly what I was saying. Like it or not it's too late to roll back time.

RockSet N' Grade
08-02-2007, 09:03 PM
What is hot news friday is forgotten by monday. It is happening all over. Money is looking for a home. With the dollar falling in value, overseas companies get a great ROI by swallowing up an income stream like Bobcat. The trend does not seem to be the one that T. Boone Pickens (from Texas) was famous for and that was selling the parts for greater than the whole. The trend from the folks I talk to is finding quality ROI. There is alot of huge money out there looking for a home: if it is not the stock market or falling US real estate - what is it? A lateral move into a complimentary AAA business.

Tigerotor77W
08-03-2007, 12:32 AM
As far as engine swaps go, I wouldn't be surprised, actually, to see Cummins motors pop up -- Doosan uses Cummins almost exclusively in its larger equipment. Part of this is probably to stir buy-American sentiment in American contractors, so perhaps this will carry over to the compact lines as well.

grassmanvt
08-04-2007, 12:06 PM
I don't think you will see earth shattering changes. However, I will say that I have a daewoo 130lc-v and although I have not owned it long it seems to be a very competent, well built machine.

accurate machinery
08-04-2007, 01:23 PM
I would be concerned about my job if I worked for Bobcat manufacturing. Bobcat has manufacturing around the world, I think the IR purchase of Earthforce backhoes was to secure manufacturing in the Czec republic. I don't think the cost of labor is near that of the USA. Face it, manufactures are going to look at labor cost more intently when they are here to start with.
I don't think that Kubota and Kioti have the best relationship since the Kioti looks like a clone of the Kubota. The Doosan and Kioti relationship will probably terminate the Kubota engine supply to Bobcat. Maybe now we will see Bocat colors and name on the Kioti tractor. Whose engine will show up in the Bobcat is the next question, I hope the public doesn't turn into the guinee pig test bed like they did for the ill fated Deutz.
If Kubota isn't supplying engines to Bobcat, what is to stop them from bringing their skid steer loader into the USA? Has any one ever seen a Kubota skid steer loader outside of the USA? I have heard that they build a skid steer loader and track skid steer loader, I have never seen one. This is going to be very interesting....

grassmanvt
08-04-2007, 01:38 PM
www.accuratemachinery.com[/url]

I've never heard that. With all the gray market stuff that gets brought over and auctioned off I would think we'd have seen them by now. However, I've been wrong before. That would probably shake things up a bit. Interesting.

ksss
08-04-2007, 06:58 PM
I thought that I read somewhere that Thomas is supplying skid steers for Kubota. However, I may have imagined it so don't hold me to it.

Fieldman12
08-04-2007, 11:46 PM
Well, Im pretty sure a Thomas machine uses a Kubota motor and I think there has been talks about Thomas building skid steers for Kubota. Honestly it may be best thing that has ever happened to Thomas.Thomas makes a well built skid steer but the company is having allot of problems. Maybe kubota will pull them out of the hole or buy them. It would not take a whole lot of money to acquire the company. Last I looked was .07 cents a share.

Digdeep
08-05-2007, 12:23 AM
Kubota was rebranding the Thomas skid steers in Europe.

Tigerotor77W
08-05-2007, 01:28 AM
Kubota was rebranding the Thomas skid steers in Europe.

Yes to all the Kubota has/had a skid-steer comments... but I think Thomas was in a little bit of financial difficulty not too long ago, and I'm not sure that the agreement ever yielded anything. Thomas was also supposed to be the supplier of skids to Hyundai, which still hasn't materialized, either, I don't believe. :(

tallrick
08-05-2007, 02:01 AM
Well, Im pretty sure a Thomas machine uses a Kubota motor and I think there has been talks about Thomas building skid steers for Kubota. Honestly it may be best thing that has ever happened to Thomas.Thomas makes a well built skid steer but the company is having allot of problems. Maybe kubota will pull them out of the hole or buy them. It would not take a whole lot of money to acquire the company. Last I looked was .07 cents a share.

That's a shame. I always thought that Thomas loaders were good products. Did mismanagement cause their troubles, or just poor sales?

Fieldman12
08-05-2007, 07:02 AM
I think it was both actually a problem. Everone that I have talked to that has run one of there machines has really liked them. Granted they are a no thrills machine but they get the job done and really to be honest would be a great starter machine because they dont cost much and most of the parts are common parts.

Fieldman12
08-05-2007, 07:04 AM
Someone just needs to buy Thomas out and get it over with. I dont know why but in allot of ways the machine is simular to Bobcat or at least in my opinion as far as design goes.

Tigerotor77W
08-06-2007, 12:56 AM
That's a shame. I always thought that Thomas loaders were good products. Did mismanagement cause their troubles, or just poor sales?

There never was much information on why they went into bankruptcy... so as far as rumors go, I don't even have that.

accurate machinery
08-06-2007, 03:53 PM
For a year or so, Thomas sold 6 to 10 new (Thomas and Pro Tough) machines in every Ritchie auction. The dealer network probably didn't think too highly about that. Thomas even had a Representative standing with the machines touting the warranty. Then they went into bankruptcy...

RockSet N' Grade
08-06-2007, 07:29 PM
Although the "actual" value may have been there, Thomas has never had any "perceived" value. Who wants to buy a never heard of brand like Thomas, when I can buy a Bobcat? Marketing, marketing, marketing..........

ksss
08-06-2007, 07:57 PM
Although the "actual" value may have been there, Thomas has never had any "perceived" value. Who wants to buy a never heard of brand like Thomas, when I can buy a Bobcat? Marketing, marketing, marketing..........

That is very true. A good example is the RB sales that Thomas ran machines through would bring 9-11K brand new. I watched older used 1845C's bring more money selling side by side.

Fieldman12
08-07-2007, 10:52 PM
I agree fully with what both of you have said about value. They may have had a good machine maybe, even the best but, without dealer support and so on they are nothing.

Scag48
08-08-2007, 12:38 AM
Bobcat machines will not change for some time. As mentioned, the purchase may allow Daewoo to market some new/different machines under the Bobcat name. But, Bobcat's lineup will not change extensively. Why would anyone shell out that much money to change a winning product? They wouldn't.