REALLY DULL blades do no damage. Are sharp blades a myth?

[casey]

Last week one of my helpers put the Exmark mulching blades on our WB on upside down. He then cut 3 residential accounts. The wavy Exmark mulchers managed to scalp some spots even at 3.5. The lawns looked like crap but I decided not to recut because we would have had to cut at 2.5 to even out the turf. I tried not to let it bother me & went on with the days work.
I expected the turf to be browning or unhealthy looking when I arrived at those accounts this week. The turf looked good, green & growing like after a normal cut. We have had little rain, & none of these cusomers waters so WHAT GIVES?
I've allways kept blades sharp but this has me wondering if I'm working too hard at keeping that razor edge.

[cantoo]

From what I have seen dull blades leave tufts of grass, that's reason enough for me to sharpen blades regularly. Do you have any pics of these lawns?

[lawnboy82]

Dull blades are a problem, because they do not give a good clean cut of the blade. They tend to shred the tip of the blades. Look closely at the blades and you will see the injury. Not just scalping, but torn leaves.

[andyslawns]

dull blades damage the tip of the grass blades. you can tell if your blades are dull if the tips of the grass is extreamly light in color. dull blades do not leave as clean of a cut. it also lets water out of the blades. think of it as this, if you get cut with a dull knife it bleeds a lot. if you get cut with a razor it dosent bleed as much. Just my 2 cents worth

[KirbysLawn]

Casey, you bring up some of the most unproductive topics I have ever seen. Mow with dull blades if you wish, I'll pass.

[Fantasy Lawns]

won't go into the "health" aspects related to the turf ...... how about dull blades make the mower work harder ..... which cost you more in the long run maintanence & fuel usage ;->

[Keith]

I'll keep wasting time sharpening mine, thanks. Ever cut a steak with a butter knife? May work, but why?

[casey]

Kirby,
I don't mow with dull blades. The blades were freshly sharpened & put on upside down by a helper. The grass was cut with the flat side of the blade & I found it odd there was no browning or other damage to the turf the following week. Why did the grass show no ill affects?
Of course the cutting job looked like crap but it was more turf damage I was worried about.

[grassyfras]

I dont think turf dmage will come from one time cutting with dull blades.

[JMS]

For the first time the blades ran backwards they probably have square edges. They are not at an angle but they would still cut cleanly.

[vipermanz]

if i can quote eric, anything will cut the grass by literaly beating it to death, but a sharp blade will cleanly lop the top of it of

[Evan528]

Besides the fact that using dull blades is unheathly for the turf and unsightly. ISnt it much easier to mow with sharp blades? I can tell instantly when my blades need sharpening without even looking at the blades. I sometimes sharpen them twice a day!

[dhicks]

Perhaps this is psycho babble, but I feel better knowing that my clients are getting sharp blades. I change blades about every two to three days depending on the amount of use. I do know this, and a fact, sharp blades cost less to run than dull blades.

If you have a blade shapener then sharp blades should not be an issue. However, if you don't have a blade sharpener, then I can understand the reuctance to sharpening blades so often

[Ricky]

The purpose of the lifts (or the foil) on a blade is to pull the grass up to the same height and discharge the clippings. If the blades were installed up side down, wouldn't that blow the grass down? Are you sure that the grass was even cut? Maybe the grass was just blown down in most places instead of cut. Also an up side down blade would put the blade closer to the ground because the foil would be down below the cutting edge, that isn't even cutting, because it is turning backwards.

[mowingmachine]

Ricky,
Actually the lift angle and surface area would stay the same so the vacuum would still be the same even though the blade is upsidedown. The only difference is the you don't have a sharp cutting edge and the cutting height would be lowered by the foil height.

mowingmachine

[crazygator]

I just dont understand this! Wouldnt your guy tell the difference after just 1 pass, not even that much. And to continue 3 different lawns? Oh well quess good help is really hard to find.

[KirbysLawn]

Time to find new helpers, bad help......http://www.unionturf.com/spanka.gif

[vipermanz]

that's a cool smiley ray, where did you find it??

[casey]

This guy has been cutting grass for me for 4 yrs. Cutting is all he does. I still can't believe he didn't notice especially when it scalped at 3.5". I could tell something was wrong the minute I arrived at the props..

[Tropical Trim]

The first thing my instructor at a local community college teaching small engine class asked: How many of you cuts grass with dull blades? Nobody raised their hands. Then he went on saying: I hope noone does this. Just imagine if you were to be the mower. If I gave you a dull sickel and told you to cut grass that was at the hieght of five feet tall down to the ground how would you feel? Everyone chuckled! Then he said, wouldn't a sharp sickel be better for the user and for the grass. Just imagine how you would be feeling after eight hours of using a dull sickel. Come tommorrow, you wouldnt want to cut any more grass, the mower feels the same way, it wouldnt start the next day too! It was so funny to see how many students brought blades in for sharpening the next day!
Although this doesnt really apply to what Casey is saying in his thread, it brought it to my mind and I thought I'd share this experience with all of you.

[awm]

sounds like he gets his coffee in the morning and puts it on auto pilot ,the rest of the day.in my efforts to hire help ive run into some really unbelievable people. my blood pressure just wouldnt srand it. once had a guy cut the recoil cord so he could go home.
like ive said im just not good at working people.hence the effort to stay solo

[Guido]

have mentioned towards the end of the thread, I think you have a bigger problem at hand than worrying about if you should sharpen your blades tommorow or not.

Are you going to do anything about this brain dead employee of yours that obviously doesn't check out his jobs before he leaves or while he's doing them for that matter. He doesn't stop when there is a problem with the mower. Good thing it wasn't clanking because it was low on oil.

Maybe you should start there, and then, when you find a new employee or "fix" that one, you can have a lesson on tying shoes, which side of the blade goes up, and what to do if your mower happens to start tilling yards. Might help some!

:)

[Kent Lawns]

MYTH?

In one of the markets we're in, I have a collegue who sharpens his blades 2x per year or every 250 hours or so!

Crazy!?

Here's the business side:
Sharpen daily = .5 man/hours
x5 days = 2.5 man/hours each week
x30 weeks = 75 man/hours seasonally

75 hours x $15.25 total labor cost = $1143.75/annually per machine! He runs 18 machines and says daily blade sharpening WOULD cost him over $20,000 annually in labor expenses.

He said they cross-cut every property every week anyway and the quality of cut really doesn't decline. He says you need the right machine (He runs Exmarks) with a high blade-tip speed.

Crazy!?

[Guido]

I'm laughing as I'm typing so excuse any errors please! :)

He needs to work on some of his #'s.

#1 It takes a half an hour to sharpen and change 3 blades? I dought it.

BUT besides the point......

#2 Does he think he would waste more time sharpening his blades daily and cuting the grass ONCE at every property?? He's crazy than, yes. I'm sure if you add up the time it takes to make the second "cross cut" on all his properties and put it next to the time it takes to sharpen the blades, he will see that he's not saving time or money. Sorry!

Sounds like its a big operation. He should have a mechanic that has the spare set of blades for every machine sharpened by the end of the day so they can be quickly switched out. He can't find anyone to hire for less that $16 to do odds and end work like changing blades??

I bet he's wasting time in other areas of his operation also that he can fix to allow time for the blade changes.

Can't see his reasoning on this one, sorry!

[HOWARD JONES]

I'm sorry, but I don't buy his story - sharpen 2 times/year, after every 250 hours - this means he's getting 750 hours on a set of blades? The story would make more sense if he changed the blades every 8 days - no sharpening, the .5 hr/day saved at $15.25/hr labor would be about equal to cost of new set of blades - if you could live with the cut quality.

[Dean Williams]

We sharpen blades every night regardless of condition.
(you don't shave with a dull razor do u)

[powerreel]

I get reels shapened twice a year.

[Ssouth]

Tropical Trim, I like your anology. When bidding new residentials, I let them know the things that set me apart from everyone else. One of my points is that I use sharp blades and your little story will come in handy one day. Thank you for your input.

Three yards with upside down blades is out of the question. You should either fire this guy or pay him based on production and quality instead of hourly or salary. Just a suggestion, not a put down.

[grassman50]

No personal attacks!

[kutnkru]

Originally posted by grassman50
All I have to say is that Casey, you are the biggest idiot I know to date. But keep on bringing up these topics, ...Now thats a funny yet hypocritical statement considering you resurfaced a two month old thread -LMAO!!! :laugh:

Sir Casey is not as dumb as popular opinion may believe. Coming at us from left field at times ,,, YES. In the same category as morons ,, I think not.

Kris

[TGCummings]

LOL!

GrassMan50,

You're 0-2 in my book now. Start thinking before posting, young man...

How many more old threads do you plan to bring up just to put the bite on someone? Have you anything useful to add to the discussion? :confused:

[casey]

Originally posted by kutnkru

Sir Casey


That's more like it Kris.

[grassman50]

No persoanl attacks again

[grassman50]

No personal attacks...I guess if you are never coming back then you will not read this. - Ray

[kutnkru]

I think that people that post here need to understand that many of us here are affiliated with the same turf organizations in our demographics and try to be civil/friendly.

We throw punches and jabs, but its all in fun. If we have a glass chin I would recommend that we not ridcule others to begin with. BTW Tom is not the lifer I am -LOL!!!

I once read a statement from someone who said that what we put out into cyberspace has absolutely no relevance. If you truely believe that your/my opinion is that important your sadly mistaken. If you think that you are going to change the lives of people - your not.

Enjoy the site for what its worth, filter out whats not worthy of digesting, and most importantly - dont let a bunch of threads get to you. ;)

Kris

[TGCummings]

Amen to that, Kris, from one lifer to another. ;)

[Ric]

A study at Mich State by Dr. Kneebone concluded that turf cut with dull blades used less water. Had to do with water loss by the clean cut blade vs. raged leaf blade. No I don't use dull blades. But I have put walker ghs blades on backwards. The cut look ok when I finished but the next day it turned white on top.
Have you ever gone back and looked at you yard a day or two later? Try it you may not like what you see. LOL

[landscapeman]

Landscapeman, if you or your "friend around the corner" dislike this site so much why do you keep coming back? I thought you said you were gone for good?

Please stop making post that violate both our guidelines and I'm sure MSU's also.

[casey]

Originally posted by Ric
A study at Mich State by Dr. Kneebone concluded that turf cut with dull blades used less water. Had to do with water loss by the clean cut blade vs. raged leaf blade.

I couldn't resist.
Does this mean dull blades are better in drought?

[Ric]

Landscapeman

I would like you personally welcome you to lawnsite. I hope you will find lawnsite informative and helpful. We respect the views of all those who post here. Please feel free to express your views and ask any question you like. There are many members here who are highly educated in the Green Industry. We are always looking for new and different point of view. Welcome

[KirbysLawn]

I really don't have time to keep editing these childish post by students at MSU. I will forward the IP address to Chuck and let him handle it. This thread will be closed until he deals with it.

[1MajorTom]

Ok, this thread is now open. There were a couple of problems with a few former members that were antagonizing the members so this thread was closed until they could be dealt with.

Not even sure if there is anything to add to this thread, but it's open just as long as there aren't any more insults.

[Runner]

I wish I knew who these guys from Michigan are, and where they are from.

[Ric]

There is only two ways to deal with these fellows. 1.) pretent they are not there and don't post back to them. 2.) thank them for their words of wisdom and tell them they are right.

If you post back to their game playing then you are playing in there ball park and they love it. Kind of hard to punch them in the nose over the internet.

[TGCummings]

Ric,

I take approach #3. Challenge their assertions, draw them out and force them to reveal their true colors early. ;)

[Fareway Lawncare]

MYTH?

In one of the markets we're in, I have a collegue who sharpens his blades 2x per year or every 250 hours or so!

Crazy!?

Here's the business side:
Sharpen daily = .5 man/hours
x5 days = 2.5 man/hours each week
x30 weeks = 75 man/hours seasonally

75 hours x $15.25 total labor cost = $1143.75/annually per machine! He runs 18 machines and says daily blade sharpening WOULD cost him over $20,000 annually in labor expenses.

He said they cross-cut every property every week anyway and the quality of cut really doesn't decline. He says you need the right machine (He runs Exmarks) with a high blade-tip speed.

Crazy!?

Tip Speed isn't Going to Help a Blade w/200 hrs. on it...But I Agree Some Guys are Overly Fanatical about Sharpening. I Doubt any of the Guys Running Crews Sharpen Every 6-8 hrs.

[newbomb]

What your telling us is: You let a helper. who is obviously unknowlegable, put blades on the mower upside down. Then you let said helper do a half assed job and let it go.

First put the blades on the mower the right way.
Second dull blades do lousy work and tax the machine too.
Third dull blades cause unnecessary stress on the lawn you should be trying to keep healthy.
Fourth common sense should dictate if you are cutting something use a sharp tool. DUH.

I think I would have kept this to myself. I am not trying to be nasty but I really knew better than this when I was 10 years old.

-Paul

[freddyc]

does anyone know of a mobile sharpening service??

Don't laugh, when you get your hair cut did you ever wonder who sharpens the scissors?? They actually have a service running around. It might be lucrative if you get a local route--- how much would you pay per blade if it were available to you??

[DLCS]

Ah, resurecting one of your old post casey, aka Fareway.

[Ric]

Tip Speed isn't Going to Help a Blade w/200 hrs. on it...But I Agree Some Guys are Overly Fanatical about Sharpening. I Doubt any of the Guys Running Crews Sharpen Every 6-8 hrs.


Kelvin

Must be very boring up there in your igloo in the Frozen North land to go posting to 4 year old threads.

Now I have often told you, most of your fellow countrymen come to Florida this time of year with a clean shirt and a $ 5.00 bill. and don't change either. You can't even afford to do that????

[Mowman29]

How can Guest Post threads????? When I 1st got on here I was not allowed to post anything just read someone needs to fix this!!!!

[Mowman29]

Last week one of my helpers put the Exmark mulching blades on our WB on upside down. He then cut 3 residential accounts. The wavy Exmark mulchers managed to scalp some spots even at 3.5. The lawns looked like crap but I decided not to recut because we would have had to cut at 2.5 to even out the turf. I tried not to let it bother me & went on with the days work.
I expected the turf to be browning or unhealthy looking when I arrived at those accounts this week. The turf looked good, green & growing like after a normal cut. We have had little rain, & none of these cusomers waters so WHAT GIVES?
I've allways kept blades sharp but this has me wondering if I'm working too hard at keeping that razor edge.


How can Guest post threads???? Don't they have to be a member?? This needs fixed!!!!!!

[DLCS]

How can Guest Post threads????? When I 1st got on here I was not allowed to post anything just read someone needs to fix this!!!!

When this site was started you could post as guest. The thread was started a few years ago by Casey aka Fareway.

[newbomb]

My post was pulled from this thread. Apparently I was too rough on the originator of this thread. It just seems to me that sharp blades installed properly is very basic. I assume that most members take this business seriously or they wouldn't be here. I think Im right about that. The thread just seemed a little insulting to me. My appologies to all.

-Paul