Rainbird 1804 vs. 1806 debate

[Squirter]

As I read through the various threads and learn from you Pro's, it seems there's been a bit of debate about the use of Rainbird 1804 vs 1806's. One guy says......use 1806's while others say 1804's. I live in Central Indiana and my lawn is Kentucky Bluegrass/Perennial Rya. To better protect from weeds and the summer drought, I tend to keep the grass quite tall...especially in the summer.

Well, I'm finally going to break down and have an irrigation system installed. The questions are.....should I use 1806's or 1804's with MP Rotator's. I intend to go entirely MP R's using SAM-PRS bodies. My concern is the taller grass interference with the MP "streams" if I use 04's. I've read/seen that the 1806's are a side entry which is said to be problematic for reasons I'm not sure (perhaps winter blowouts....SAM issues??? Does Rainbird make an 1806-SAM-PRS that is a "bottom feeder" like the 1804???

Help settle the debate. What are the differences....and thanks for your input.

[Wet_Boots]

Side entry heads will not unscrew like a light bulb, if you need to replace a head. Until Rainbird makes a bottom-entry-only 1806, a lot of pros will leave the 1806 out of their installations.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

1806s are fine. Side entry or no side entry they are better than all the rest. If you use sam/prs you MUST use the bottom entry. I would use 1806s in your case. Unless your pressure at the head is going to exceed 70psi I wouldn't worry about the prs on the MP rotators. They like pressure around 55 and a prs could take it as low as 30psi.

[PurpHaze]

We use mostly 4" spray pop-ups as bodies for our MP-Rotator installs but that's because we're presented with warm season, low mow grasses (Bermuda mixed with weeds) on our sites. [Our latest MPR renovation was put on 6" Hunter I-Sprays simply because I wanted to try them out.] However, in your area with cool season grasses that are higher mow I'd use the 6" bodies.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

We use mostly 4" spray pop-ups as bodies for our MP-Rotator installs but that's because we're presented with warm season, low mow grasses (Bermuda mixed with weeds) on our sites. [Our latest MPR renovation was put on 6" Hunter I-Sprays simply because I wanted to try them out.] However, in your area with cool season grasses that are higher mow I'd use the 6" bodies.

The I sprays come with pressure reduction. How did you feel about the MPs performance? I put the MPs on 12" Hunter Is at the arboretum.

[Mike Leary]

The I sprays come with pressure reduction. How did you feel about the MPs performance? I put the MPs on 12" Hunter Is at the arboretum.

I've used 12" in turf w/steep hilly conditions, work great.:)
1806SAM/PRS IS a bottom load, the new ones come without side mount. Great head, my choice.

[Squirter]

So, Fimco....are you saying Rainbird makes a bottom entry 1806...and that the only way to get a bottom entry 1806 is in a SAM/PRS????? If that's the case, looks like I'll be getting the PRS you indicate MAY not be necessary (unless pressures > 70psi.).

As for the "issues" with the 1806 sam/prs, I guessing it has to do with the side entry making winter blow-outs difficult by leaving water to freeze thus cracking the head. I understand Wet Boots and his preference of the 1804 because of the ease of replacement (light bulb). However, I'm not sure what you base your statement on..."they are better than all the rest". Can you elaborate?

[PurpHaze]

The I sprays come with pressure reduction. How did you feel about the MPs performance? I put the MPs on 12" Hunter Is at the arboretum.

Here's our latest renovation to MPRs on 6" Hunter I-Sprays. This area is on domestic supply that is "iffy" at times regarding pressure. They've worked great. I've also used them on high pressure areas and they performed great also.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

ALL 1806s have bottom entry. The check valve only works if you use bottom entry unless you use an external check valve in which case you don't need the additional cost of the sam.

[Wet_Boots]

Now, Toro makes bottom-entry-only popup bodies of 6 and 12 inch popup height.

[Mike Leary]

ALL 1806s have bottom entry. The check valve only works if you use bottom entry unless you use an external check valve in which case you don't need the additional cost of the sam.

As everyone was too groggy to read my early post: The new 1806SAMs have
the side mount permanantly plugged, preventing someone (I've never
:laugh: ) using the side mount. The Hunter "lipstick" PRVs are not cheap, &
eat pressure for breakfast!:)

[PROFESSORRAIN]

SAM/PRS Seal-o-matic (check Valve is all It is)Pressure Regulating Spray this to have balanced pressure in the zone and it will only work correctly thru the bottom.I have yet to use MP's but I do like the RB rotor nozzles!I have a job to do tomorrow I will try some MP'S on.

[DanaMac]

Hey Professor - not to sound like the grammar police, but in your sig you have an apostrophe in SPRINKLER'S. Not needed. You have it worded as being plural. Could change it to Prorain's Sprinkler Systems, then it would be possessive. :) Have a nice day.

Just gotta bust your balls.

[Squirter]

Being extremely limited on irrigation system knowledge, I struggle to understand the need for SAM Rainbirds.....except that I know I want it. If nothing more, I am lead to believe they will not give the appearance of leaking and will also limit the blowing of air when first activated. That alone sells me on SAM's.

As for the PRS......I'm completely clueless WHY I want them...except that the irrigation supply house (so-called expert on MP Rotators) says I should get them. It seems they would be beneficial from the standpoint of having balanced pressure throughout all heads on a zone. Seems logical...and even necessary. Oh yeah....I'm on city water and all the questions for which I should have answers (psi, static pressure, gpm, etc. etc.).....well, I don't have them. Sorry! However, I'm guessing the so-called expert AND contractor will need to have those answers before recommending or discouraging the use of 1806 SAM/PRS.

BTW.....I'm still struggling to understand the best use of MP R's in my parking strip area (grass between sidewalk and curb). I'm on a corner lot and there is quite a bit of parking strip to cover which is 7' wide. This seems to be an oddball size for MP R's.....or is it? I'm guessing it will have to be double-stripped and on a seperate zone to allow for additional water requirement). The question becomes....will the MP R 1000's work? What about the MP R side strips? Any suggestions???

[PROFESSORRAIN]

Dana busting took LOL.and I will correct accordingly THANKS

[DanaMac]

I don't always type and post with proper grammar and punctuation. But I got real good at proofreading and noticing those things when my girlfriend would have me read her college papers and proofread.

[PROFESSORRAIN]

I hear ya see if this is a little better

[gusbuster]

From a maintenance side regarding the use of 4" vs 6", I just question the value of keeping blue grass cut soooooo high. Unless the extra steps of aerating and de-thatching program is included, in the end, if the grass is being cut SO high, it's going to cost you money in the first place regarding disease and fungus issues and how it looks after being cut.

Regarding the issue of the height of sprinkler, it's just a matter of if the stem area will be kept clear or if grass will be allowed to grow over the head.

[Squirter]

Gusbuster,

I completely understand your points regarding the height of cut, however, it seems to come down to quantifying "how high is sooo high"....which I am not prepared or capable of doing to any degree of certainty. Suffice it to say I prefer keeping the grass a bit taller than most other lawns in my neighborhood. Yes, I do aerate, dethatch, etc, and treat to address fungus so I have never had any problems but your concerns are certainly valid.

If I were using gear drives....I wouldn't hesitate to use 1804's. However, I'm using MP Rotators throughout. Having seen a few sites using 1804's & MP R's, it just appears that allowing the grass to get just a "wee bit long" poses a disturbance to those wittlo-bitty streams. So....why take the chance on '04's?

Would anyone care to take a stab at answering/commenting on my questions/statements/concerns posted above regarding the PRS & the correct application of MP Rotators used in my 7' parking strip??? Seems the replies were a bit derailed by those grading our punctuation, grammar, spelling. I'll certainly take heat for that statement.......and NO DOUBT fail the test. <tee-hee>

[Keen]

From the RB catalog:

*1806 and 1812 SAM and SAM-PRS versions do not have a side inlet.

So any RB 1800 that you order with the SAM feature will come in an "NSI" (no-side-inlet) body configuration. They do not have the "side mount permanantly plugged"...they are molded without one to begin with.

As for the PRS vs no PRS that is up to you, my feeling is you can't go wrong with a SAM-PRS system, the assurance of steady PSI across the zones is worth it.

[Keen]

Go with the 6" for sure, with that turf and lawn height it just makes sense...

[Mike Leary]

Would anyone care to take a stab at answering/commenting on my questions/statements/concerns posted above regarding the PRS & the correct application of MP Rotators used in my 7' parking strip??? Seems the replies were a bit derailed by those grading our punctuation, grammar, spelling. I'll certainly take heat for that statement.......and NO DOUBT fail the test. <tee-hee>

Get used to this site; we're (mostly) overeducated, opinionated, multi and single syllabic, ALL must have been english teachers! But as contractors, we are used to thinking & conversing on many levels, that's why a thread
turns to chaos immediately. No offense:we brash nutcases get sidetracked.
What was the question?, Oh, Rain-Bird..best pop-up made, superior wiper
seal, strong spring, flat bonnet (less damage potential unless you're using
MPs) The height deal has been going on as long as sprinklers have been
made; labor was cheaper years ago (& better IMHO), so you could mow low, as the "Green" movement evolved, mowing heights & the general
outlook concerning turf has changed..higher turf. PLUS, a lot of clients
don't want (or can't afford) lawns mowed twice weekly or even weekly.
Ride 'um mowers are hard on turf heads; all ours have to raised every three years or so...that's why we like the 1806 for all of the above reasons.
If you are sloping downhill away from the valve, without SAM, you'll drain,
wasting water & putting undue strain on fittings when the next cycle occurs.
Draw-back on SAMs: if you're in a freeze-prone area, get the compressor
out. We don't use PRS, our piddly pressures out here preclude that. My choice for your 7' bed?.....1806 w/SAM if needed, Weather-Matic 5510
brass nozzles. Use a valve w/flow control & you will be having big fun.:)

[gusbuster]

Gusbuster,


Would anyone care to take a stab at answering/commenting on my questions/statements/concerns posted above regarding the PRS & the correct application of MP Rotators used in my 7' parking strip??? Seems the replies were a bit derailed by those grading our punctuation, grammar, spelling. I'll certainly take heat for that statement.......and NO DOUBT fail the test. <tee-hee>

Take a look at this thread. http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=195945&page=2 This is a post(post 12) of the operating ranges of the rotator. Keep in mind that this guide is from 01/06 so there may have been some changes.

Based on the guide, I think you could get it down to the seven feet throw with a combination of adjusting the distance throw and the flow coming out of that valve. Of course, it would have to have it own dedicated line just to c.y.a. but at least my distributor says you'll still have mpr even if you adjust the distance throw. The guide says the best 8 - 30' solution.

[PurpHaze]

... correct application of MP Rotators used in my 7' parking strip???

I have successfully used the MPR 1000s on a strip about 7' wide. There's a thread (I think the real SprinklerGuy started it) and pictures somewhere and you can do a search. :)

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

Squirter,
You have annoyed me by demanding that all the attention be focused on you nonetheless I will offer advice. Dedicated parkway zone. Avoid MPs there now jury is still out. I've always been a centerstrip person in the parkway but I would use 8' spray and triangular space in your case.

[SprinklerGuy]

I used them in a very limited application......4 heads total....time will tell. Jury is still out as fimco says...

[Squirter]

Fimco, I come seeking advice from the kind, patient, and friendly professionals such as yourself. I certainly am not seeking, nor am I deserving of any special attention given my babblings about a subject I know nothing/little about. With that said.....

Weathermatic 5510's huh??? Well now, I'm curious. Seems I'm receiving little discouragement from "the jury" about having an entire system installed using MP Rotators. Seems the product has quite a bit of support in this forum. However, my 7' wide parking strip area may be a cat of a different color and not a good place to experiment with MP R's. Perhaps the Weathermatic 5510's would be better as Mike Leary suggests? Y'all can weigh in on this....if you want. Otherwise, I'll go to my corner and wait to be called upon.

Enjoy the day!

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

The 5510s are awesome and will set you apart from the crowd as well as do a great job. This is brassland baby. Top of the food chain. Everything else is downhill from there.

[Kiril]

Get rid of the mow strip lawn, irrigate with buried drip.

[Mike Leary]

Get rid of the mow strip lawn, irrigate with buried drip.

Has that actually worked for you Kiril? I'd always worried about the emitters
plugging up.:dizzy:

[Kiril]

I just want to rid mow strips of lawn. Buried drip in those areas seems to be the lowest maint. of all the irrigation solutions, nothing to kick, drive over, steal, break. Plant the area with a drought tolerant, low growing ground cover and maybe some sub-shrubs and a suitable street tree(s).

The plugging of emitters with roots has always been a concern for me as well, and I don't really buy into the Netafim subsurface drip watering strategy for various reasons.

If there are concerns about root intrusion into the lines via the emitters, you can sleeve the line with weed block fabric which should keep most of the roots out however that is not a solution I would use on a regular basis or large area due to labor intensiveness. I also wouldn't recommend fertigation in those situations.

[Kiril]

Forgot to mention you can also lay it on the surface and mulch over it, but then you lose some of the benefits of using drip in those areas and you will probably incur some evaporative loses.

[Squirter]

Kiril, you're on a mission to rid the world of grassy parking strips and I can't say that I'm opposed...given the headache it's giving me trying to decide how to irrigate it. Problem is, if I turn it into a "parking lot" or whatever you suggested, I wouldn't need irrigation....I'd need a divorce attorney. That said...on to my pesky 7' wide parking strip.

First, let me apologize for making this so difficult...but lack of knowledge is getting in my way. Perhaps it's a case of too much information being dangerous for a dumb homeowner looking to hire an irrigation contractor. I'd like to put it all in his hands, but I don't wanna go there. So...

Here's what I think I know! I'm going to use Rainbird 1806-SAM'S w/ MP Rotators everywhere...with the possible exception of the parking strips where I'll give careful thought to dedicating that area to a spray zone(s) w/ brass weathermatic nozzle...in which case, I'll go for the SAM-PRS... to ensure about 30 psi??? thus avoiding fogging????? {Here I go...trying to act smart}

But, if I do the entire turf in MP Rotators, am I going to make a mistake using SAM-PRS's??? I get it that pressures of > 70 is a good reason to use PRS's. (I know, find out my pressure) However, if the presure is < 70, won't the PRS's create problems for the MP Rotators (I understand their sweet spot is about 45 psi. and again, PRS's will keep a constant 30p ??? which is good for the weathermatics).

One of the earlier posts says PRS's will perform well as they will ensure balance...which is a good thing. Hmmmmm!!!!! Maybe...maybe not!

[Kiril]

Kiril, you're on a mission to rid the world of grassy parking strips and I can't say that I'm opposed...given the headache it's giving me trying to decide how to irrigate it. Problem is, if I turn it into a "parking lot" or whatever you suggested, I wouldn't need irrigation....I'd need a divorce attorney. That said...on to my pesky 7' wide parking strip.


Perhaps if you planted roses and brought some in to your wife on occasion it wouldn't be so bad. Roses aren't my idea of a low water use plant, but it is certainly better than turf. The absolute last solution I would consider in any mow strip is spray if you just can't get over the turf hump. BTW, you can still use sub-surface drip for turf providing you have the right soil type.

SAM-PRS... to ensure about 30 psi

Only if you have pressures above 50-60 psi at the nozzle, in which case I would be considering a PRV. The high pressure issues and fogging is only one issue. There is also balanced precipitation rates and the fact that many sprinklers are not rated to work at high psi. I also don't think you need brass nozzles unless you just want to burn some money.

[Mike Leary]

I also don't think you need brass nozzles unless you just want to burn some money.

Except his wife will look at those beautifull brass nozzles in action and say,
"lets go back into the house honey, I have a reward for you.":D

[Kiril]

Except his wife will look at those beautifull brass nozzles in action and say,
"lets go back into the house honey, I have a reward for you.":D

I need an award system like that.

[Squirter]

Maybe I should just save the money and not install the irrigation system. Surely wifey-poo will allow it to earn interest rather than a trip to the shopping mall.

Now, what about using PRS heads with MP Rotators. Probably not a good idea given the MP R's work best at 45psi. What the heck, this is way too cornfusing. Anybody know where I can buy a RAINTRAIN and a good hose?

[Kiril]

http://www.uiexpress.com/products.aspx?ctlg=UIEonline&catg=Traveling+Sprinklers(IE)

[PurpHaze]

Except his wife will look at those beautifull brass nozzles in action and say,
"lets go back into the house honey, I have a reward for you.":D

Until she gets the bill for them. :)

[Mike Leary]

Until she gets the bill for them. :)

"Long after the bill is forgotten, the quality is remembered.":)

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

Maybe I should just save the money and not install the irrigation system. Surely wifey-poo will allow it to earn interest rather than a trip to the shopping mall.

Now, what about using PRS heads with MP Rotators. Probably not a good idea given the MP R's work best at 45psi. What the heck, this is way too cornfusing. Anybody know where I can buy a RAINTRAIN and a good hose?

Paralysis by analysis. Just go take a pressure check and give us your meter size and we can go from there.