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qps
08-08-2007, 12:41 PM
Drove a 332 for alittle bit today..KSSS you would have been proud of how I handle the case style control....not a bad riding machine, decent power to boot.....pic's later this evening....

cat2
08-08-2007, 01:41 PM
Drove a 332 for alittle bit today..KSSS you would have been proud of how I handle the case style control....not a bad riding machine, decent power to boot.....pic's later this evening....



The CTL or wheeled machine? The JD's do have a smooth ride, and power, and are really stable.


Now get some pics

qps
08-08-2007, 01:51 PM
The CTL or wheeled machine? The JD's do have a smooth ride, and power, and are really stable.


Now get some pics

ctl track machine....

ksss
08-08-2007, 05:39 PM
My my Tim that is a step in the right direction:)

How did it compare to the C series machine? How does it compare to your 257 (granted not same ROC class).

What did you think of the controls?

Tigerotor77W
08-08-2007, 08:29 PM
And what type of tests did you do with it? Pics pics pics!

qps
08-08-2007, 09:01 PM
My my Tim that is a step in the right direction:)

How did it compare to the C series machine? How does it compare to your 257 (granted not same ROC class).

What did you think of the controls?

Only got to drive it for about 30 minutes today, I'll run it tomm. or Friday,
but first impression was good, controls weren't that hard to get used to, vision was good, power was good...hell it was all good.....ride was better that the gehl IMHO...it didn't stall like the gehl even though it doesn't have anti stall either...cab door is slick how it rolls up...we'll see how there pricing comes in:weightlifter:

cat2
08-08-2007, 09:11 PM
Where are the Pics??

qps
08-08-2007, 10:22 PM
Where are the Pics??

sorry guys...got in from the state fair to late...I'll take and post tomm...

qps
08-08-2007, 10:24 PM
My my Tim that is a step in the right direction:)

How did it compare to the C series machine? How does it compare to your 257 (granted not same ROC class).

What did you think of the controls?


kicks my 257B right in the gonad's:cry:

Tigerotor77W
08-09-2007, 01:46 AM
How'd it fare compaired to the C-series?

qps
08-09-2007, 07:28 AM
How'd it fare compaired to the C-series?


I've only got a hour or so in it....I'll run it more in the next day or two ant report in....

kreft
08-11-2007, 06:36 PM
so were are the pics?

qps
08-12-2007, 05:43 PM
Here's a couple of pic's

qps
08-12-2007, 08:02 PM
Had a chance to run the 322 this weekend and I will say that deere has a good machine, power to the ground was excellent, it just kept pushing and pushing, even withiout anti-stall I never killed the machine, the ride was also very good, head over heels better all around than the gehl machine. motor was alittle loud but I'm sure the cab model would be much better, very simple and easy machine to service also...the yank em sticks where very responsive and easy to operate, bad part...no pilot controls yet, this won't apply to many operators but last Jan. I had rotator cuff surgery, operating the case contols was not bad until I had to rotate the right conrol for the bucket, I could feel it in my should after 30 minutes of operating it. Doc says up to 1 year for total recovery but my feeling is it will never be the same, so pilot controls are a must, if not for that I would seriously consider owning a deere skidsteer...bobcat is dropping off a T300 at the first of the week....

cat2
08-12-2007, 09:04 PM
Hey nice deere.:) Where is the chrome stack? I would never buy one if it didn't have that:nono: So going to try out the bobcat, I know what you are going to say about it. It doesn't have the power, or lifting ability and the ride isn't as smooth as the deere. But I might be wrong you never know, just make sure you keep us updated

GreenMonster
08-12-2007, 09:25 PM
I also tried the 322 this spring and was quite impressed. We didn't end up getting it... the biggest dissapointment was the low dump height. I never thought joysticks would factor into my purchase decision, but in the end it did. At first, it was mostly because resale, but they really are a joy to operate.

The deere power was awesome, and we also were really unable to stall the machine no matter how hard we tried. Can't say the same for the SR-70. As far as yank em sticks go, the Deere weren't bad.

I'll definately look at Deere again next time around. I'd love to try one of their machines with pilots. The pilots are so popular now, they need to do it. Next year maybe?

ksss
08-12-2007, 09:34 PM
qps, call CASE and have them bring out a 450CT with pilots. I would like to hear your thoughts on the machine but specifically the pilot controls.

qps
08-12-2007, 09:47 PM
Had a chance to run the 322 this weekend and I will say that deere has a good machine, power to the ground was excellent, it just kept pushing and pushing, even withiout anti-stall I never killed the machine, the ride was also very good, head over heels better all around than the gehl machine. motor was alittle loud but I'm sure the cab model would be much better, very simple and easy machine to service also...the yank em sticks where very responsive and easy to operate, bad part...no pilot controls yet, this won't apply to many operators but last Jan. I had rotator cuff surgery, operating the case contols was not bad until I had to rotate the right conrol for the bucket, I could feel it in my should after 30 minutes of operating it. Doc says up to 1 year for total recovery but my feeling is it will never be the same, so pilot controls are a must, if not for that I would seriously consider owning a deere skidsteer...bobcat is dropping off a T300 at the first of the week....

I had the 332 not 322...sorry ....and ksss my relationship with the local case dealer...well...you remember the deal last year...:dizzy:

ksss
08-12-2007, 10:29 PM
Yea I did not think you would buy one from them but I would like to hear your thoughts on how it runs compared to the others and being a CAT operator what you think of the controls.

Scag48
08-12-2007, 11:48 PM
If someone wants to cover the rental of a 450CT for a day I'll give an unbiased opinion. :waving:

dozerman21
08-13-2007, 04:57 AM
Had a chance to run the 322 this weekend and I will say that deere has a good machine, power to the ground was excellent, it just kept pushing and pushing, even withiout anti-stall I never killed the machine, the ride was also very good, head over heels better all around than the gehl machine. motor was alittle loud but I'm sure the cab model would be much better, very simple and easy machine to service also...the yank em sticks where very responsive and easy to operate, bad part...no pilot controls yet, this won't apply to many operators but last Jan. I had rotator cuff surgery, operating the case contols was not bad until I had to rotate the right conrol for the bucket, I could feel it in my should after 30 minutes of operating it. Doc says up to 1 year for total recovery but my feeling is it will never be the same, so pilot controls are a must, if not for that I would seriously consider owning a deere skidsteer...bobcat is dropping off a T300 at the first of the week....

I thought that you would like the Deere. Sorry to hear about your shoulder. I partially tore my rotator cuff a few years ago. Mine healed up over time, and now seems O.K. for the most part. I am still recovering from a ruptured tricep that happened almost 3 years ago. When I bought my Deere a year and a half ago, it was still pretty weak. Luckily, the controls were easy enough where I could run it. They might have even helped build strength back in my arm. Good luck with your shoulder. Just make sure you do all the exercises that they tell you, along with any therapy.

Did you ever get a price on the Cat 297C? The Bobcat will probably be pretty similar to the Deere in price.

Fieldman12
08-13-2007, 08:49 AM
I'm glad to hear you like it. Anyone know why they changed the pillar behind the cab from black to yellow and also the metal there? Deere moves rather well around here. This is all Cat, Bobcat, and Deere country. Deere is getting very close to the top around here. Lots of 200, Series II and 300 series around here. We have some case around here also but when the local dealer sold both Case and New Holland they sold more of the New Holland than the Case. Reason being because for years Case only had the Radial as now they have both. My guess in another six to seven years Deere will control allot of the skid steer market if they can keep the quality up, get the resale up, and make better improvement all the time such as pilot controls. If I was buying right now I would like to test out a new C series Cat, new Bobcat, Case, Deere, and even A Takeuchi even though around hear getting parts would be like pulling teeth.

Fieldman12
08-13-2007, 08:52 AM
I like the chrome stack look just as well. It shows a since of class in my opinion. Don't forget the rain cap also. For some reason they left it off this one. They was putting them on for a while. Only thing with rain caps some of them make noise so a turn out may be better.

Fieldman12
08-13-2007, 08:59 AM
Something I do think Deere could improve on is where you strap the machine down on the back of the machine. On each side Deere has a piece dsigned to strap the machine down with a chain. Not sure if it is from over tightning to the trailer or if someone was pulling the machine out but I have seen a few bent there and one the metal was broke out. I als noticed this only on the new Case CTL's. They have a bracket on each side of the machine welded in the back. I noticed a few of these bent.

Fieldman12
08-13-2007, 09:17 AM
Would you be better off with a foot control machine for the bucket? You would not feel it in your shoulder that way. Only time you would ever have to rotate the control for the bucket is for auxiliary hydraulics.

Tigerotor77W
08-13-2007, 09:19 AM
Had a chance to run the 322 this weekend and I will say that deere has a good machine, power to the ground was excellent

Did you do any digging with the machine?

And here's my question to all the engineers (if any) who read these forums... if Deere can do it, why can't you?

cat2
08-13-2007, 09:22 AM
I'm glad to hear you like it. Anyone know why they changed the pillar behind the cab from black to yellow and also the metal there? Deere moves rather well around here. This is all Cat, Bobcat, and Deere country. Deere is getting very close to the top around here. Lots of 200, Series II and 300 series around here. We have some case around here also but when the local dealer sold both Case and New Holland they sold more of the New Holland than the Case. Reason being because for years Case only had the Radial as now they have both. My guess in another six to seven years Deere will control allot of the skid steer market if they can keep the quality up, get the resale up, and make better improvement all the time such as pilot controls. If I was buying right now I would like to test out a new C series Cat, new Bobcat, Case, Deere, and even A Takeuchi even though around hear getting parts would be like pulling teeth.



They changed the pillar color in 2007 I think

Fieldman12
08-13-2007, 09:37 AM
It looks like different material also than before. Not sure why they changed it.

qps
08-13-2007, 11:00 AM
I'm glad to hear you like it. Anyone know why they changed the pillar behind the cab from black to yellow and also the metal there? Deere moves rather well around here. This is all Cat, Bobcat, and Deere country. Deere is getting very close to the top around here. Lots of 200, Series II and 300 series around here. We have some case around here also but when the local dealer sold both Case and New Holland they sold more of the New Holland than the Case. Reason being because for years Case only had the Radial as now they have both. My guess in another six to seven years Deere will control allot of the skid steer market if they can keep the quality up, get the resale up, and make better improvement all the time such as pilot controls. If I was buying right now I would like to test out a new C series Cat, new Bobcat, Case, Deere, and even A Takeuchi even though around hear getting parts would be like pulling teeth.

I've tried the C series CAT, Gehl (no thanks) and Deere, Bobcat is dropping off a T300 this week..the foot controls is a no go, never could operate them and never wanted to learn:laugh: If I had a good CASE dealer I would try theres but me and them don't see eye to eye....I would have liked to try the deere and cat side by side...if the deere had pilots:cool2:

qps
08-13-2007, 11:04 AM
Did you do any digging with the machine?

And here's my question to all the engineers (if any) who read these forums... if Deere can do it, why can't you?

I pushed dirt across a one acre site on my property, it would roll dirt over the top and sides almost two feet and kept on going, the gehl would have stalled within the first 20ft. and I hate to say it but I don't know if the 297C would have pushed it before it started to spin, I'm going to try a 287 and 277 when they hit the dealers lot, deere is picking up there demo today along with pricing, it should be interesting how it compare's against the others...gehl pricing was almost as much as the cat's.:hammerhead:

qps
08-13-2007, 11:06 AM
Something I do think Deere could improve on is where you strap the machine down on the back of the machine. On each side Deere has a piece dsigned to strap the machine down with a chain. Not sure if it is from over tightning to the trailer or if someone was pulling the machine out but I have seen a few bent there and one the metal was broke out. I als noticed this only on the new Case CTL's. They have a bracket on each side of the machine welded in the back. I noticed a few of these bent.

I seen those...and I agree..they also look to be to close to attach a chain with a binder.....or it would have to be a very short chain and a ratchet type binder...

qps
08-13-2007, 11:10 AM
I thought that you would like the Deere. Sorry to hear about your shoulder. I partially tore my rotator cuff a few years ago. Mine healed up over time, and now seems O.K. for the most part. I am still recovering from a ruptured tricep that happened almost 3 years ago. When I bought my Deere a year and a half ago, it was still pretty weak. Luckily, the controls were easy enough where I could run it. They might have even helped build strength back in my arm. Good luck with your shoulder. Just make sure you do all the exercises that they tell you, along with any therapy.

Did you ever get a price on the Cat 297C? The Bobcat will probably be pretty similar to the Deere in price.

Thanks again for the hook up with Lee...super nice guy. I had a big rip in my tendon, so they repaired it, put a anchor in it and shaved off some bone spurs...I never knew a shoulder surgery was such a long recovery process, doctor says 1 year for full recovery, but it still pop's and cracks..but as least it doesn't hurt all the time...Lee speaks very highly of you.:weightlifter:

Fieldman12
08-13-2007, 05:36 PM
Around here and surronding areas for some reason Case never pushes there skids/CTL's very hard. I think this is a shame because everyone i have talked to never has any complaints. Our local Case IH/New Holland dealer dropped the New Holland line last year including the skid steer. The owner a die hard Case IH man ( Owns the largest Case Ih pulling tractor fleet in the world) im hoping as time goes on we will see more around here. I think part of the problem is we dont really have any Construction dealerships close by. Most is an hour away. It is a good hour now to the closest New holland dealership. I think also skid steers and mini excavators are kinda in the child that no one wants class. The big construction guys dont want them because they dont bring in the dollars as the big equipment and the ag guys really dont want them either but latley since they have become so popular they kinda been adopted into the ag side since the construction side does not really want them. A construction dealership actully told me that. That is one good point with lets say Bobcat because until recently when they got bought out again all they had to focus on was skid steers and mini excavators.

NHMan
08-13-2007, 09:42 PM
Does anyone know what pilot system CAT is running in the new C series? Is it Rexroth or have they reverted to an electric over hydraulic system?

ksss
08-13-2007, 09:49 PM
Cats system is E/H. The B series uses Rexroth components on its pilots.

NHMan
08-13-2007, 10:00 PM
Am I alone in thinking it was a mistake to venture away from full hyd.?

ksss
08-13-2007, 11:48 PM
I don't know. If it is done properly and will work reliably probably not. They will be able to switch patterns on the flip of a switch. Be able to control functions electronically like flow and feel I don't know if these features on the new Cats but with E/H you can do that. The key to its acceptance will be how the controls react and feel as well as reliablilty of course. Bobcat was not all that successful in their current E/H controls at least according to the feed back I have gotten. I actually wish CNH had pursued E/H rather than pilots. I asked some of the people in charge of the program and they said that E/H is what everything will be going to they just did not feel like the technology was there yet to make it reliable yet. Alot of people like the CAT pilot controls, I am not sure why but they do. It was a gamble on bringing out a new control system. Time will tell if it was a good idea.

Tigerotor77W
08-14-2007, 01:27 AM
I hate to say it but I don't know if the 297C would have pushed it before it started to spin

My guess -- especially for those who still think I can say no bad about Cat -- is that it wouldn't have. It'll spin the tracks, which a B-series might not (depending on how it's set up), but Deere has a ton of push power.

I want to see someone do a digging comparison -- Kaiser, AWJ, Dozerman... you interested? :D

dozerman21
08-14-2007, 05:19 AM
My guess -- especially for those who still think I can say no bad about Cat -- is that it wouldn't have. It'll spin the tracks, which a B-series might not (depending on how it's set up), but Deere has a ton of push power.

I want to see someone do a digging comparison -- Kaiser, AWJ, Dozerman... you interested? :D


I'd like to run a new 297C, and see how they perform. I'll run it right next to mine. I already told my local Cat salesman that I would like to demo one after the buzz wears off some, and they have one available that noone is interested in buying. I won't be in the market for a CTL for at least a couple of years, so I don't want to demo something that someone else may want to buy. If I get the green light, I'll line 'em up!

Fieldman12- I actually find those tie down hooks that are molded into the back to be very handy. They work perfect for how I chain mine down. I use about a 6' foot chain with hooks on both ends, and loop one end around the hoop on the loader, and the other end around a D-ring on my trailer. I use a spring loaded binder with a cheater bar to fasten it tight. Those hoops are very strong. If you ever see any bent, it's because some Yum-Yum backed it into something pretty hard. It's a much better/easier way to tie down than what my Bobcat had underneath the machine, with the slots that would always pack with mud and were hard to reach.

QPS- Good luck with the search. I'm glad you were impressed with Lee. Their service has been great so far too. Keep us posted with your thoughts and the price comparisons of all these machines.

AWJ Services
08-14-2007, 07:06 AM
I want to see someone do a digging comparison -- Kaiser, AWJ, Dozerman... you interested?

I would love too.

In the pictures the machine has a smooth bucket.
Is that what you are demoing the machine with?

I really enjoy reading about other peoples experiences demoing machines.
We all can see the same machine so different.
The pricing also is amazing how different it is in different regions of the country.

Maybe I should demo a Deere again.:)

qps
08-14-2007, 07:08 AM
QPS- Good luck with the search. I'm glad you were impressed with Lee. Their service has been great so far too. Keep us posted with your thoughts and the price comparisons of all these machines.


Deere picked up the CT332 yesterday and left a quote, I'm not sure if there comparsion is to the 297C but if it is...they crushed CAT's price on the 297C, I know what my CAT guy will say is that there two different machines, but not in performance. CAT is re-quoting there 277,287, and 297 machines today....along with the 42 month at 0% 36 month powertrain warranty the deere offers it seems like the best bang for the buck deal!!!

Scag48
08-14-2007, 01:15 PM
Deere is becoming more competitive in their pricing across the US. However, our Deere dealer was only about $3K cheaper on a similarly spec'd 120 than our 312. Seems like Deere is trying to get back into skids/CTL's after their shortcomings in the past years. Good for them, only makes the rest of the MFG's work harder to produce something better and offer it at a lower price which is good for us.

qps
08-14-2007, 02:25 PM
funny how quick the cat priced dropped......in line with the others now...however theres a big jump between the 287 and 297...which I don't understand...I could see alittle but not as much as there quoting...

Construct'O
08-14-2007, 11:12 PM
I was at my dealer Zeigler Cat picking up new track rollers,idlers ,and sprockets for my dozer.

They had a 297C to look at ,but was scheduled to go out on rent ,so didn't get a chance to run it.

Cab is awsome, and controls that float with the air ride seat was impressible needless to say.They also have new hoses that are called tuffguard.They said that they tested them by rubbing them togather for like 12,000 times and showed no wear.

I asked them if they was going to be using that on ther dozers?They didn't know.I have a few place it would be great for.They also gave me the sales pitch on the undercarriage system.I didn't say a word,just smiled!

They have made several changes to the track system compared to the older model setting next to the new one.

As for price of the 297C,i asked ?of course they knew i was just tire kicking ,so that might of had a little to do with it,but started at 70k !!!!!! I told them that was almost as much as i gave for my first dozer 30 plus years ago.

Amazing what new iron cost today, also (my)parts !!!!!!!

QPS i'm sure the cab and controls over the 287 and 297C is the major increase in the price difference.

Good luck on you adventure for new iron !

Tigerotor77W
08-14-2007, 11:32 PM
QPS i'm sure the cab and controls over the 287 and 297C is the major increase in the price difference.

I'm not sure on this one, either, but it shouldn't be in the cab or controls. The 287C and 297C have the same control options available to them. My assumption is the work that goes into the 272C and 297C (btw -- did you compare prices of the 262C/272C, too, to see whether this theory holds?) cooling system. I'm not sure whether I'm allowed to specify what type of system it is, but it's different from that of the 262C and 287C.

Apart from that, there shouldn't be a huge price difference... hopefully, we're only talking a couple of thousand, right? Not something like 10k -- because that'd imply that Cat's getting greedy on that 297C (imo, unless I'm missing some other feature).

Construct'O
08-14-2007, 11:50 PM
The 297C i looked at had the Mitsubishi engine( had to look that one up? old Webster dictionary didn't have it!!!!!)

Fan cooling system was on demand hydraulic driven fan,not belt driven.Sure that would add to the cost.Have a GOOD DAY !!!!!!

SiteSolutions
08-15-2007, 12:00 AM
I don't know. If it is done properly and will work reliably probably not. They will be able to switch patterns on the flip of a switch. Be able to control functions electronically like flow and feel I don't know if these features on the new Cats but with E/H you can do that. The key to its acceptance will be how the controls react and feel as well as reliablilty of course. Bobcat was not all that successful in their current E/H controls at least according to the feed back I have gotten. I actually wish CNH had pursued E/H rather than pilots. I asked some of the people in charge of the program and they said that E/H is what everything will be going to they just did not feel like the technology was there yet to make it reliable yet. Alot of people like the CAT pilot controls, I am not sure why but they do. It was a gamble on bringing out a new control system. Time will tell if it was a good idea.

Pardon my ignorance but as this thread is fairly hijacked already... can someone explain the difference between "pilot" controls and "Electric (or Electronic) over Hydraulic"? I've been referring to my new T-190 as having pilot controls but don't really know enough to know for sure. Also, are the Takeuchi pilot controls or E/H?

Thanks...

Scag48
08-15-2007, 01:36 AM
Pilot controls, which are in Cat's A and B series skid steers along with just about every modern excavator out there, are miniature hydraulic systems within themselves. When you move the sticks, small valve blocks are opening and closing allowing fluid to flow in small lines to the hydraulic pump. The benefit to this system is the responsiveness, you're feeling all hydraulic feedback through the sticks. If the machine can't handle the load, you feel it through the sticks.

Electric over hydraulic, however, is just that. There is electricity, essentially, that controls the actions of the hydraulic pump. Instead of basically a mechanical system there are electric relays that push the message to the pumps instead. Downside, to date, has been reliability and in Bobcat's effort with E/H the responsiveness isn't nearly what it should be IMO.

qps
08-15-2007, 07:14 AM
I'm not sure on this one, either, but it shouldn't be in the cab or controls. The 287C and 297C have the same control options available to them. My assumption is the work that goes into the 272C and 297C (btw -- did you compare prices of the 262C/272C, too, to see whether this theory holds?) cooling system. I'm not sure whether I'm allowed to specify what type of system it is, but it's different from that of the 262C and 287C.

Apart from that, there shouldn't be a huge price difference... hopefully, we're only talking a couple of thousand, right? Not something like 10k -- because that'd imply that Cat's getting greedy on that 297C (imo, unless I'm missing some other feature).






Apart from that, there shouldn't be a huge price difference... hopefully, we're only talking a couple of thousand, right? Not something like 10k -- because that'd imply that Cat's getting greedy on that 297C (imo, unless I'm missing some other feature)...my thought was 2-3K also...but 6K quoted difference...yikes...

Digdeep
08-15-2007, 09:17 AM
I would bet that most of the price difference(price increase) is due to the C-series having a pressurized/sealed cab. CATadvertises it as the first in the skid steer industry. I'd also say that the swith to metal face seals has something to do with the increased pricing. The engine is the same engine that is in the 287 (3.3L CAT branded Mitsubishi), but the turbo is aftercooled.

qps
08-15-2007, 09:46 AM
I would bet that most of the price difference(price increase) is due to the C-series having a pressurized/sealed cab. CATadvertises it as the first in the skid steer industry. I'd also say that the swith to metal face seals has something to do with the increased pricing. The engine is the same engine that is in the 287 (3.3L CAT branded Mitsubishi), but the turbo is aftercooled.


they all have the same cab...and options...

Tigerotor77W
08-15-2007, 01:21 PM
my thought was 2-3K also...but 6K quoted difference...yikes...

Hmm... not sure how much the cooling system "should" add, as I'm not familiar with how much more capability it adds. However, my guess is two-fold: Cat will claim that the 297C is a so-and-so improvement over the 287C, and two, that the machine needs to be "beefed-up" (different cooling system and loader structure) to accommodate. That's my theory, anyhow -- Construct'O, you're right in that nearly everything is the same otherwise, but there are differences in cooling packages (and loader arm) between the super-beta machines (272C, 297C) from the rest of the line.

Digdeep
08-15-2007, 02:24 PM
Increased ROC and 8hp more with an aftercooled turbo?

qps
08-15-2007, 02:44 PM
Dropped off a Bobcat T300 this afternoon....report to follow in few days...

Fieldman12
08-15-2007, 02:47 PM
Dozerman21, I agree with you about where you tie down the Deere skid steers. I really like where they put them. I think they are probably one of the easiest machines to strap down in the industry. I just wish they where a little better guarded and a little stronger. Most I have looked at are fine though.

Tigerotor77W
08-15-2007, 03:01 PM
Increased ROC and 8hp more with an aftercooled turbo?

Pretty much.