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View Full Version : A couple Bobcat S185 questions


dons
08-09-2007, 09:02 PM
My hand & foot controlled 05' S185 w/300 hrs has a problem disconnecting out of the float mode. Seems to be with the linkage. I took the side cover off and sprayed everything I could get at with Break-Free a few days ago and finally got it to release.

After some grade work today it locked up again and had a heck of a time getting it to release. Is this a common problem for this machine?

Next question; Is there anyway to increase the machines lifting ability? It's perfectly suited size wise for the work we're doing and with the McLaren wheels & tracks it's very stable. Just wish it could lift a little more for moving pallets of pavers around after they've been delivered. Seems to breakout 500 pounds under it's rating if my math is right.

Thanks for any input

dons
08-09-2007, 09:43 PM
Thinking more about this, the guy I bought it from is in paving business and only ran a cold planer with it, he sold it to buy an S300 for better performance. That's what he told me anyway.

I did have to replace the high pressure coupler (has the high flow option) because of a leak. Could overworking with a planer somehow effect the lift system?

ksss
08-09-2007, 09:54 PM
Is it going over relief when you try to lift heavy? If so then you could have BC check the relief setting and you would know. I don't see it likely that running a cold planer would cause your problems lifting. If there is a problem it is likely in the lift cylinder valving. If your within what you believe to be 500 pounds of your max lift ability I would bet the machine is running fine. It just is not as much as you may like.

dons
08-13-2007, 10:42 PM
Thanks Ksss, I think you're right that all is good and I'm trying to push it a little too far. Just wish it could lift a few more pounds like my 317 could.

SiteSolutions
08-14-2007, 08:09 AM
My 2nd machine, a T-190, which is essentially a S-185 with tracks, had a sticky pedal. I had to stomp it hard to make it float, and then it would pop out at inopportune times if I didn't hold a lot of weight on the pedal. It wouldn't ease up or down, either... always had to use a lot of force and it was tricky to operate smoothly. (And my knee hurt all the time!)

According to my dealer / mechanic: The spool valves sometimes get a little sideways in their holes. When this happens, you will *probably* have to have the valve(s) rebuilt. This takes a few hours to get at them and a few bucks for parts. I think I got out of it for around five hundred bucks for the lift valve. When they were done, it was like a new machine.

If you put this off, the spool can wear out it's little home in the valve body and then you have to replace the whole enchilada. I would assume that is more expensive. Also, if it is badly tilted in there, that may be contributing to your lack of lifting power, as some fluid may be sneaking by the spool in the valve.

In your case, maybe the dealer can warranty it as the machine only has 300 hours? Good luck with it.

SiteSolutions
08-14-2007, 11:59 PM
Let us know what happens!

SiteSolutions
08-17-2007, 07:57 PM
bump bump bump

TXTom
08-20-2007, 09:09 PM
My S185 with counterweight kit and foam filled tires can lift right at 2000lbs. This allows me to move around wet pallets of sod. I can basically lift them 6-12"s off the ground, then I have to carefully drive them around. If I stop to quickly the machine will tip forward. I don't know what a load of pavers weighs???

Later-

dons
08-20-2007, 11:07 PM
Thank you for the help, Site. Really appreciate it. I haven't done anything to solve the problem yet. I'm hoping it's just the linkage rusting up from lack of use. I'm a very low hour user and considering the guy I bought it from was in paving I wouldn't think he even used the float.

dons
08-20-2007, 11:12 PM
TX, put me in the novice category when it comes to these machines, but count me in as an enthusiast. If my math is correct the pavers weight about 3100 pounds per pallet and the 185 should be able to lift 3600. I'm not talking about unloading, just moving around at grade level. I can say my former JD 317 could do it and the BC 185 can't.

TXTom
08-20-2007, 11:41 PM
The S185 is rated for 1850lbs of carrying. Its rating is increased with the counterweight pkg to 1950lbs. The heavy foam filled tires on my machine are good for a few more lbs. Not sure where you got the 3600lb lift capacity, but it is incorrect for the S185. Maybe that is the breakout force....

Later-

SiteSolutions
08-20-2007, 11:58 PM
My 185 surprised me by toting big trees... but as far as breakout it seemed a little lacking. JD are known to be good heavy lifters. Wouldn't shock me if that's all you get, but I'd still check out the valve.

Does anybody else on here have a 185? My old 190 would pick up and tote rolls of sod on a sod roller but it was about all it wanted weight-wise, especially with the weight centered way out in front of the machine. Hydraulics should be the same as a 185. Dunno how much that weighs; I think they are 30 yards each. How much is on a pallet?

TXTom
08-21-2007, 12:03 AM
Pallet of grass = 50 square yards....

SiteSolutions
08-21-2007, 12:13 AM
Pallet of grass = 50 square yards....

thought so but never buy it that way so wasn't sure. It weighs right at 2000 pounds, right? So the rolls only weigh 1200 pounds? Geeez. My old 190 really had trouble picking those up, granted it was centered much further forward than a bucket of dirt would have been, but I must admit I am seriously disappointed. Granted, that machine had about 2000 tough hours on it; the new machine feels stronger.

SiteSolutions
08-21-2007, 12:22 AM
The S185 is rated for 1850lbs of carrying. Its rating is increased with the counterweight pkg to 1950lbs. The heavy foam filled tires on my machine are good for a few more lbs. Not sure where you got the 3600lb lift capacity, but it is incorrect for the S185. Maybe that is the breakout force....

Later-

I think the ROC for the Bobcats are based on (roughly) 50% tipping load. The breakout specs aren't published on the (crappy new) Bobcat website but I saw them on the case website... Case seems to have the best website for comparing specs; I used their site to shop around between bobcat, takeuchi, deere, and Cat!

Here's a link:
http://comparison.casece.com/choose_product_cust.php?product0=Case%3A430&step=2&brand=Case&product=Skid+Steer+Loaders&product_family=1&product_group=&compare=skid_steers

Anyway, bucket breakout is 3600 pounds, which I think is how hard you can get the edge of the bucket to dig by curling it up... not a practical measure of lifting and carrying.

dons
08-25-2007, 10:31 PM
Site, it was the linkage thank goodness. Finally had the time to mess with it today, it locked up solid again after I put it into float and couldn't get it out. I took the 90 degree linkage apart where it makes it's turn from the petal, cleaned and lubed it the best I could and it's working just fine now. Thanks again for the help.

My first heavy equipment repair, lol :weightlifter:

Mike33
08-26-2007, 12:56 AM
i have a 02 185 tipping like someone mentioned is figured by 50%.
mike

Tigerotor77W
08-26-2007, 02:19 AM
TX, put me in the novice category when it comes to these machines, but count me in as an enthusiast. If my math is correct the pavers weight about 3100 pounds per pallet and the 185 should be able to lift 3600. I'm not talking about unloading, just moving around at grade level. I can say my former JD 317 could do it and the BC 185 can't.

Two questions -- out of curiosity, why did you switch from Deere to Bobcat? And as far as lifting ability goes, it could be that the hydraulics are unable to provide more than, say, 3,500 pounds of lift. Just because the machine tips at 3,700 pounds (twice the ROC of the machine, as SAE spec J732 states), the hydraulics can't physically exert more than, say, 3,550 pounds (which is incidentally the tilt breakout force of the machine -- with a bucket).

dons
08-26-2007, 03:35 PM
Tiger, the reason for buying the 185 was because of the enclosed cab & a/c and found what I thought was a good deal it. Earlier this year before our rains started back it was miserable to operate the 317 with all the dust, especially with my allergy and sinus problems.

I think the 317 and 185 are both fine machines from my limited experience. The 317 seemed to have more power all around, but the 185 is smoother machine, granted the 185 only has 300 hours compared to the 317's 900 when I bought it.

I seem to be misunderstanding some things when it comes to a machines ratings. I thought breakout force meant the point where the hydraulics would stop tilting or lifting? In the 185 manual it says the SAE B/F for tilt is 3550 lbf and the lift is 3600 lbf. That's where I came up with it should be able to lift 3600 lbs?

As I understand ROC, its 50% of the tipping weight and the SAE tipping weight is measured at full boom on level ground. I've run McLaren wheels and rubber tracks on both machines which add around 1500 lbs. Not sure how much that translates into increased tip load but I'm sure it helps like the counterweights do. I can say it made both machines much more stable compared to stock wheels.

I guess another question would be; Taking ROC out of the equation, what should a machine with a lift rated at 3600 lbf realistically be able to lift?

Thanks!

ksss
08-26-2007, 05:22 PM
Tiger does a better job at this than I do but the ROC is rated at half of tipping wieght on rubber tired machine. Tipping is the amount of weight that can be lifted just before the wheels come off of the ground. Breakout force is a measure of the buckets ability to curl. Tiger knows the specifics of how that is measured as far as length of bucket etc. A machine can a lot times lift much more than tipping. A 95XT with a ROC of 3600 pounds with the counter weight will lift 11K with rear end tied down. I think that is pretty representative of all of the machines. They run out of weight well before they run out of hyd. capacity.

Tigerotor77W
08-26-2007, 05:42 PM
Breakout force is more an indication of how much force the machine can exert with a specified bucket before one of two things happens: either
1) The rear tires come off the ground
2) The machine simply can't curl anymore. Generally, this is specified for skid-steers as both a lift and a tilt breakout, but it can be deceiving because the machine may be able to exert more force than it can handle before tipping.

For instance: the Cat 246B and 277B have the same hydrualic pump. However, if you try to pick up pallets weighing, say, 3,500 pounds with a 246B, it will lift them -- but they will tip the machine. If you take the same pallets and try to lift them with the 277B, the machine will pick up the pallets without a problem. That being said, the two machines have the same breakout force.

The final nuance of this is that machines are rated with a bucket. Breakout force is measured 4 inches back from the cutting edge of the bucket, so if you use forks, the effective "cutting edge" is even farther forward. Imagine it this way -- if you try to do curls normally (upper arm vertical), you may be able to curl, say, 40 pounds. Now, if you extend your arm (arm parallel to floor), you won't be able to curl 40 pounds. Part of it is that the stabiliizing muscles in your back might not be able to handle 40 pounds, but the principle of only being able to exert so much force at a given distance is the same.

I haven't done a very good job of explaining this at all -- I was climbing all day -- so if you have other questions, post 'em and either someone else will get to them or I'll try them again.

Oh -- forgot -- a machine that's rated at, say, 3,600 pounds of breakout force for the lift should be able to handle 3,600 pounds in the bucket used to establish that rating. Put on forks, though, and who knows. Now (if we ignore machine stability) it becomes a matter of how the loader geometry changes as the load center is moved farther out. If you could load the forks right along the carriage, for instance, you'd probably be able to lift more than 3,600 pounds. If you put all your weight on the very tip of the fork, it'll be a tiny amount -- maybe only 1,500 pounds? For a 24" (standard) load center, I'd guess that the S185 probably runs out of hydraulic force at around 2,600 or so pounds, but that's really a random guess. (I have no idea.)

dons
08-27-2007, 06:49 PM
Thanks Ksss, wow... 11k on a 95XT, that's impressive!

Thanks a lot Tiger, you did a crystal clear job explaining things and they make much better sense for me now.