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Squirter
08-13-2007, 08:46 AM
I'm about 2 weeks away from having an irrigation system installed in my yard. Presently, I have no outdoor/landscape lighting other than flood lights mounted to the house/soffit. So, I'm thinking since the irrigation contractor is going to be laying pipe in the yard....he may be able to use his equipment to make preparation for some outdoor lighting (trenching for electrical conduit) which could save me a bit of money should I install some landscape lighting. Any thoughts???

Also, if anyone knows of some good websites I could visit that gives some examples of various types of landscape lighting available.....please let me know. I don't want anything real costly/elaborate. Just the basic stuff that will enhance the appearance of yard. Hate to have such nice green/lush turf and all new bushes......and no lighting to accent. That would be a shame.

Pro-Scapes
08-13-2007, 06:55 PM
does your irrigation contractor offer lighting ? If not then asking him to "prewire" will be of little use unless he prewires under driveways and such or leaves a conduit under the driveway. This could save you some time and headaches later as far as a bore would be concerned but without a design or plan then I would consult with a designer/installer before attempting to prewire anything since you will not know how many runs and which gauge to use and the locations of the prewires.

mdlwn1
08-13-2007, 07:48 PM
greg yale lighting.........yah have to see these

Chris J
08-13-2007, 09:21 PM
I'm starting to realize that the difference between these "big" players and myself is the photography and marketing. Although this web site looks impressive, I have seen nothing on this web site that stands out to me as anything above and beyond what we do on a regular basis. Janet Lenox Moyer sent me an invitation to her Landscape Lighting class in late September, but I absolutely refuse to pay the Genesis 3 group $4500 bucks to attend a seminar that will teach me to do the same thing that I currently know how to do!

Landscape Illuminating
08-13-2007, 09:37 PM
Is it really that much? Wow...I had no idea. Id does look interesting though.

-LI

David Gretzmier
08-13-2007, 11:31 PM
If he is running pipe under driveway and sidewalk, definetly do a couple of spares each place with 1" pvc or larger for sleeves. you wont regret that. running low voltage cable now won't save you much if you hire a lighting contractor, he will want to use his own wire and bury it himself.

If you are going to do your own lighting, you may end up discovering what a lighting contractor already knows- except for driveways and sidewalks, pre-buried wire does not save you time or money. fro quality pictures of what landscape lighting should look like- take a look at mike gambino's site, google gambino lighting and you'll find it.

different folks use different fixtures, so to me reccomending one thing will just get another person reccomending something else. take the nicest, heaviest, most expensive landscape light fixture you can find at home depot or Lowes and shop around til you find one aprox. twice the weight and price, and that is a good place to start.

good luck.

Pro-Scapes
08-14-2007, 02:54 PM
If he is running pipe under driveway and sidewalk, definetly do a couple of spares each place with 1" pvc or larger for sleeves. you wont regret that. running low voltage cable now won't save you much if you hire a lighting contractor, he will want to use his own wire and bury it himself.

If you are going to do your own lighting, you may end up discovering what a lighting contractor already knows- except for driveways and sidewalks, pre-buried wire does not save you time or money. fro quality pictures of what landscape lighting should look like- take a look at mike gambino's site, google gambino lighting and you'll find it.

different folks use different fixtures, so to me reccomending one thing will just get another person reccomending something else. take the nicest, heaviest, most expensive landscape light fixture you can find at home depot or Lowes and shop around til you find one aprox. twice the weight and price, and that is a good place to start.

good luck.

David come on ? twice the price of lowes or home depot ? My cost is closer to 3-5 times the amount I could buy thier cheap lights for but they are 10 times the quality.

Squirt. If you want a proffesionally designed system thats going to be built to last let us know where you live and someone on here can either help you or reffer you to someone who can. None of us deal in the cheapie systems on here. You can expect to pay low to mid 3 figures per fixture for a quality designed high performance system that will not only perform and last but also add value and security to your residence.

TXNSLighting
08-14-2007, 03:39 PM
David come on ? twice the price of lowes or home depot ? My cost is closer to 3-5 times the amount I could buy thier cheap lights for but they are 10 times the quality.

Squirt. If you want a proffesionally designed system thats going to be built to last let us know where you live and someone on here can either help you or reffer you to someone who can. None of us deal in the cheapie systems on here. You can expect to pay low to mid 3 figures per fixture for a quality designed high performance system that will not only perform and last but also add value and security to your residence.

What he said! ive never even concidered buying lights at home cheapo or lowes. never even priced them!

Squirter
08-14-2007, 04:09 PM
low to mid 3 figures/fixture? holy cow, I'm way out of touch. i'm mainly concerned about the security benefit of lighting and would only need maybe 4 fixtures aimed at the house (front & back entry...and both sides). basically, an enhancement to the good ole flood lights mounted to the soffit. seems my mom had some installed years ago called low-sodium...if i'm saying it right???

if any lighting is needed to create interest or for "beautifying purposes", it would be something small to line the walk leading to the front door. nothing fancy, just a little somethin' somethin'. i'm not living in a mansion or multi-million dollar home. it's pretty modest...and dark!

obviously, i really wasn't thinking $$$ when i got this idea of outdoor lighting. after paying for an irrigation system....i'm financially embarassed. i do, however, appreciate the feedback. thanks!

bahamamills
08-14-2007, 05:04 PM
....i'm financially embarassed.:clapping: :laugh:

Squirter,

Been there myself on a many of occassions.

If you have access to a trencher and you have not done your lawn do look to where you may want a remote hydrant for the yard or outdoor recepticles. While I put a few in place I did not put as many as I could use now. Some one also mentioned it here, while I had not put in irrigation or outdoor lighting I did go ahead and put a few runs of conduit under my sidewalks.

Pro-Scapes
08-14-2007, 05:08 PM
ahhh ok sodium lights... now your talking about line voltage not what we discuss here reffered to as landscape lighting which is low voltage.

Benifits of low voltage vs sodium or other line voltage lights is.

Reduced glare. You wont be having helicopters landing in your yard or people thinking there is a grand opening. You also shouldnt be blinding your guests as they come or leave your residence which is typically associated with the lighting your mentioning.

Reduced cost to operate. You can typically design an inviting lighting system that will use less power than your sodium lights

Cost to install. Many times quality low voltage lighting will cost less to install. If you think a couple hundered per light is high then check out what a few sodiums will cost you installed.

Let me ask you this... If you think someone is outside and you look out the window and all you get is a huge light blaring in your eye how secure is this ?

Also... do you live at wal mart or another large store that requires your home to be lit up like a ball park ? I have either shut down or replaced many sodium systems or metal halide systems (mercury vapor too) due to the reasons I listed above. The most important reason tho is its just not astetically pleasing to make your home brighter at night than it is in the day time.

With proper planning and selection you can obtain a much higher value from a quality low voltage system. I really think you should seek a demo or consultation from someone in your area.

David Gretzmier
08-14-2007, 09:20 PM
huh, I was not saying you should use the fixtures at home depot or lowes, just get one twice the weight. I actually carry one with me to show prospects the difference between the lights I use and what they can buy down the street. but yeah, on mr16 spots, thier nicest one at Lowes costs around 20 bucks for a copper/brass light, and nightscapes, fx, kichler and others mr-16 is not 2-300 for that fixture at cost. or 3-5 times that price.

I know we don't talk cost of fixtures here, but both my local distributors sell at retail to consumers fx,nightscapeing and kichler pro, so it aint a secret what they sell them for at retail. and THAT retail price is less than 3 times the lowes spot.

YES, you can pay alot for specialized fixtures and paths. but the bread and butter mr-16 spot is not in the stratosphere.

sorry for the confusion.

Eden Lights
08-15-2007, 01:24 AM
I'm starting to realize that the difference between these "big" players and myself is the photography and marketing. Although this web site looks impressive, I have seen nothing on this web site that stands out to me as anything above and beyond what we do on a regular basis. Janet Lenox Moyer sent me an invitation to her Landscape Lighting class in late September, but I absolutely refuse to pay the Genesis 3 group $4500 bucks to attend a seminar that will teach me to do the same thing that I currently know how to do!

Chris, If you have never met and heard Mrs. Moyer speak you should consider taking the class at The Source in Peach Tree City, GA. The training center is a excellent resource and yes you will know a lot of the information already, but you will get your batteries recharged and get more focused on design principals that maybe you have let slip a little from being a business man. The Source class is a excellent bargain at $500.00.

The difference in what we do and what she does is huge because of the forces of being a designer, equipment supplier, installer, and maintenance man all rolled into one clouds our creativeness, focus, and ability to maintain known standards. Examples of these clouds are * Bonds to certain equipment companies instead of a acceptable standard. (You say Brand HPL vs. she says glare free, watertight, and fully adjustable.) * You may say mount the fixture
here because my ladder sits on that limb good and I have to service it vs. She says it must be mounted here and you need to climb, rent, or whatever to get it at that location because that is where it will look the best. * You may finish a job with everything looking good so you can get to the next client that is screaming like a stuck hog vs. She is not going to allow the installer to leave until everything is looking excellent. * You are getting paid mostly for the sale of the equipment and installation and she is getting paid for the design only which allows her to stand very firm by her standards. You may compromise on your design to sell a job: one fixture on a tree that should have six, a bunch of pathlights when you designed moonlighting, and etc. I could go on and on, but what I am trying to say is you will pick up a lot from her and get very focused on design principals. Remember I am talking about myself here also, but just think about it on your next job. Pretend that your main focus is on design and project management and that your poor twin has to make it all happen as a supplier and installer with your final blessing. Why do you think that as a supplier and or installer you can not win IALD awards???

Chris J
08-15-2007, 09:03 AM
We have met, and I have had the opportunity to hear her speak briefly about design and project documentation. I left that presentation with nothing useful, and I didn't pay anything for it. In the future, I may consider going to the Ga. training center, but I am really disgusted at the amount they are asking to attend this short class in N.Y.
Maybe it's just bad timing for me at this moment in my life. I have a bit of a personal crisis going on, and it seems that I'm attacking just about everything that comes my way these days. I think I just need to shut up and relax for a while. If they offer the class again at a later date, I'll probably be in better spirits and have a more positive attitude toward going.
Thanks for the info Eden.

NightScenes
08-15-2007, 07:17 PM
I agree with you Eddie. One other thing that Ms. Moyer has going for her is the budgets that she has to work with. She has a reputation which allows for very large budgets. I would guess that her small projects are in the low to mid 6 figures. Most of us don't have that luxury.

High Performance Lighting
08-15-2007, 08:16 PM
I'm starting to realize that the difference between these "big" players and myself is the photography and marketing. Although this web site looks impressive, I have seen nothing on this web site that stands out to me as anything above and beyond what we do on a regular basis. Janet Lenox Moyer sent me an invitation to her Landscape Lighting class in late September, but I absolutely refuse to pay the Genesis 3 group $4500 bucks to attend a seminar that will teach me to do the same thing that I currently know how to do!

Chris if that $4,500 helped you earn an extra $50,000 next year would you still feel the same?

I don't know why my post about the greatest and worst quotes of the 21st century was deleted . Anybody know?

Somebody finally says something nice about me and it's deleted. What's wrong with this forum?:nono:

Chris J
08-15-2007, 09:04 PM
Chris if that $4,500 helped you earn an extra $50,000 next year would you still feel the same?

I don't know why my post about the greatest and worst quotes of the 21st century was deleted . Anybody know?

Somebody finally says something nice about me and it's deleted. What's wrong with this forum?:nono:

No Mike, I would not feel the same if I KNEW for sure that the class would generate that kind of return on my investment. But this is pure speculation now isn't it? It is not just $4500 by the way; that is just the cost of the class. You then have to factor in the air fare, miscelaneous expenses, and the week of lost income. I would say that the trip would cost me more to the tune of $12-$15k. Have you invested this kind of money for her classes? Are you going to this class? If not, why not? Certainly you don't think you outclass the likes of Janet Lenox Moyer! I'm sure you could take your business to even greater heights if you took this course, so why don't you?

As far as why your post was deleted, I don't know because I didn't get the chance to see it. From what I was told on the phone, however, it wasn't a post that did anyone any good and just wasn't necessary.

High Performance Lighting
08-15-2007, 09:52 PM
No Mike, I would not feel the same if I KNEW for sure that the class would generate that kind of return on my investment. But this is pure speculation now isn't it? It is not just $4500 by the way; that is just the cost of the class. You then have to factor in the air fare, miscelaneous expenses, and the week of lost income. I would say that the trip would cost me more to the tune of $12-$15k. Have you invested this kind of money for her classes? Are you going to this class? If not, why not? Certainly you don't think you outclass the likes of Janet Lenox Moyer! I'm sure you could take your business to even greater heights if you took this course, so why don't you?

As far as why your post was deleted, I don't know because I didn't get the chance to see it. From what I was told on the phone, however, it wasn't a post that did anyone any good and just wasn't necessary.

OK Chris you are bitter and angry you'll get over it once the phone starts ringing again. You missed my point. What I was saying was that even at $15,000 who cares if it's going to return multiple times that to your business. Do I know that for a fact it will, No I don't since I have never attended and do not have intentions of doing so. Plus you get out of it what you put into it and with your miserable attitude right now you probably wouldn't get much out of it. After all you're not doing anything different than anyone else who is succesful except for the fancy pictures right?
I am all for quality education and learning. If others are benefitting from her classes, and they must because she still offers them, then that's great. As for comparing her to me that's like comparing apples to oranges. Two different breeds all together. She has her place and me mine. Don't listen to all the bs about 6 figure projects from those that have no idea what they are talking about. Perception is always different than reality. Sometimes much different. Whether you or anyone else likes it or not, the only true way to measure how well you are doing is by looking at your bottom line. I could close every singe prospect that I met with if I wanted to lower my price. I'm not short sighted and only accept work that is profitable. I don't believe in just moving metal. I could have 10 employees if i wanted to do production work. Bang em out like others do. I don't cause that's not the type of outfit I want to operate. Furthermore Comparison is impossible as she doesn't install herself and probably could not load balance a system so everything is operating between 11-12 volts and every fixture within .5 volts of one another to save her life. I saw her one time at a LVLIA conference and she was hitting all the manufacturers up for free fixtures to use on her seminars. She was also showing cut sheets from the Unique transformer in her presentation with 22 volt taps which is not UL1838. I don't go that way. I follow the UL recommendation. I mean her no disrespect. What she does and I do are clearly 2 different animals. She's more on the academic end while I'm out there physically immersed in it everyday.

Lite4
08-15-2007, 10:00 PM
Amen to that Mike.

High Performance Lighting
08-15-2007, 10:20 PM
Amen to that Mike.

Thank you Tim. You are a gentleman and a scholar. This forum is something else. You have a message deleted because you state your opinion and or poke a little fun in jest. A few months ago I was getting trashed big time and every singe solitary post remains in the archives. I never went crying to the administrator to have any removed. Grow up!

Squirter
08-16-2007, 07:45 AM
heck, i'm sorry for causing such a stir by simply asking for a few ideas. please accept my most sincere apology. now.....

if i just wan't a few of the basics...you know, the "bread and butter" stuff that every homeowner should have/need (mr-16's ??????? are these floods???, a few lights around my deck, and maybe some path lights to line the 15-20' walk leading to my front door).....am I still looking at spending a fortune????? i'm not living in a mansion, just a pretty simple 2 story home with maybe 2300 sq.ft. you know, it has 4 sides and a roof.

anyone able to specifically tell me what are the "bread and butter" applications for the above mentioned areas?

NightScenes
08-16-2007, 09:43 AM
heck, i'm sorry for causing such a stir by simply asking for a few ideas. please accept my most sincere apology. now.....

if i just wan't a few of the basics...you know, the "bread and butter" stuff that every homeowner should have/need (mr-16's ??????? are these floods???, a few lights around my deck, and maybe some path lights to line the 15-20' walk leading to my front door).....am I still looking at spending a fortune????? i'm not living in a mansion, just a pretty simple 2 story home with maybe 2300 sq.ft. you know, it has 4 sides and a roof.

anyone able to specifically tell me what are the "bread and butter" applications for the above mentioned areas?,

Squirter, please allow me to apologize for what is happening here. Some people who participate in this forum like to stir things up and they get a kick out of making others feel bad. I guess it's the west coast salt air that does it. Here in the south we try to be polite and use the manners that our mommas taught us.

As for your question, I think that the lighting that you are wanting is nothing more than flood lights shining on your home. When you look out the window, all you are going to see are those lights in your eyes. You are not describing landscape lighting but instead, flood lighting. I don't think your going to find that information here, but maybe someone will chime in with some info. My advice would be to can that idea and save for some quality landscape lighting that will bring out the best in your home and landscape.

Hope this helps without being offensive,

Pro-Scapes
08-16-2007, 02:53 PM
,

Squirter, please allow me to apologize for what is happening here. Some people who participate in this forum like to stir things up and they get a kick out of making others feel bad. I guess it's the west coast salt air that does it. Here in the south we try to be polite and use the manners that our mommas taught us.

As for your question, I think that the lighting that you are wanting is nothing more than flood lights shining on your home. When you look out the window, all you are going to see are those lights in your eyes. You are not describing landscape lighting but instead, flood lighting. I don't think your going to find that information here, but maybe someone will chime in with some info. My advice would be to can that idea and save for some quality landscape lighting that will bring out the best in your home and landscape.

Hope this helps without being offensive,

Good reply.

To further elaborate and without seeing your home. Generally we like to place mr 16 fixtures near the foundation shining up at the home. Perhaps a few more in beds to highlight plant material. for your 20-25 foot path you dont need to "line it" without seeing it you can probably go with 2-3 pathlights on only 1 side of it or perhaps stagger them but try to stay away from the runway effect of lining the walkways.

Try to avoid glare in any way you can. This includes glare seen thru the windows and also from you and guests entering/exiting your property or using your outdoor living spaces.

Squirter
08-16-2007, 04:45 PM
Pro & night-scapes,

I really appreciate your replies. Thanks. I think Pro-scapes has nearly pinpointed what I had in mind. Nothing elaborate.....and I completely understand the runway effect which I want to avoid. In fact, the length of my walk leading to the front entry door is only about 15-20' so I wouldn't think I would need more than a couple of path lights. Any ideas of such path lighting fixtures (such as the "bread and butter" variety) would be greatly appreciated if you could give specifics so I could do a little google research.

These "MR-16's" also seem to be what I'm looking to get....according to the description given by Pro-scapes. Once again, if someone could be a bit more specific about MR-16's (give me a manufacturer...name/model#) so I could research, it would be helpful. Thanks all!!!!!

Chris J
08-16-2007, 05:02 PM
MR16 fixture= Try Kichler 15384AZT (aluminum) or 15384BBR (Brass)
Path Lights= Kichler has a wide variety, as do most major manufacturers. Go to Kichler.com, then click on the landscape lighting section and browse the selections. You can also search for a dealer in your area here as well.

klkanders
08-16-2007, 05:21 PM
Right On Chris!
I happen to like Kichler's 15310AZT Path light. I have used lots and lots of these this year already! Simple design, sturdy 1/2" stem, perfect height and nice light output without seeing bulb. Best part is price compared to others. 20' walk? maybe 2 on one side 1 on other spaced alternately.These go great with the 15384AZT MR16 spots Chris suggested. Good Luck!