PDA

View Full Version : Another Demo Bobcat T300


qps
08-15-2007, 10:29 PM
I know this will ruffle some feather's but I was not impressed with the bobcat's power and or digging ability's. pilot controls acted as though they were on a time delay...the deere 332 out performed it in every way...the only negative on the deere was its hard to see the bucket due the there loader arm design....the bobcat whined like it had a cat stuck in the engine...can't say to much about that since my 257B does the same thing.....I'll put a few more hours on it and maybe it will grow on me....like a fungus or something:cool2:

cat2
08-15-2007, 10:30 PM
Told you:laugh: I knew thats what you would say

cat2
08-15-2007, 10:34 PM
Bobcat is a good machine don't get me wrong, but I think Jd will outwork it. I have a Jd and bobcat and I would take the Jd over the bobcat:dizzy: I'm real impressed. Keep us updated

dozerman21
08-15-2007, 10:56 PM
Cat2, I'm still trying to figure out why you have a Bobcat in your avi...

QPS- I too didn't think you would like the Bobcat. I think they're descent machines, it's just that others brands have caught and passed them. At least as the CTLs go.

On the visibility of the Deere, I actually think the visibility to the bucket is very good, along with the back. On the sides is where it took a little time to get used to. I just had to learn to raise the arms up a little more when backdragging, due to where the lift arms sit. But the visibility to the bucket, with a bolt on cutting edge, is better than the Bobcat IMO.

Unless they've lowered their prices some, the Bobcat CTLs have always been fairly salty. I imagine pilot controls might even be a little more. That Deere financing plan with the extra warranty is a sweet deal. I wish they were offering that when I bought mine. Case had the same thing going for a long time. I'm not sure if they've ended it or not.

Anything else on the menu? ASV... New Holland..., or what about a JCB Robot!:cool2:

turboawd
08-15-2007, 10:56 PM
yup, the time delay in the controls, and the whine are annoying.
they need to work on those 2 things, and maybe give a little more drive power.

cat2
08-15-2007, 11:06 PM
Cat2, I'm still trying to figure out why you have a Bobcat in your avi...

QPS- I too didn't think you would like the Bobcat. I think they're descent machines, it's just that others brands have caught and passed them. At least as the CTLs go.

On the visibility of the Deere, I actually think the visibility to the bucket is very good, along with the back. On the sides is where it took a little time to get used to. I just had to learn to raise the arms up a little more when backdragging, due to where the lift arms sit. But the visibility to the bucket, with a bolt on cutting edge, is better than the Bobcat IMO.

Unless they've lowered their prices some, the Bobcat CTLs have always been fairly salty. I imagine pilot controls might even be a little more. That Deere financing plan with the extra warranty is a sweet deal. I wish they were offering that when I bought mine. Case had the same thing going for a long time. I'm not sure if they've ended it or not.

Anything else on the menu? ASV... New Holland..., or what about a JCB Robot!:cool2:
Yea I know I have to change my avi... before I thought bobcat was the best now since I got my Jd I don't think that anymore

Tigerotor77W
08-16-2007, 12:29 AM
Too bad it was a lousy demo. I'm curious what people will think of the T320.

I'm still waiting for some engineer to reply to why other companies can't design in the push power of a Deere... I suppose I'll have to ask them directly. :(

JB1
08-16-2007, 01:08 AM
feeling better about my new deere a lot more after them comments.

qps
08-16-2007, 08:10 AM
The rear and side vision on the deere were good, I still didn't think the front was that good, it seemed like the bucket was a mile out front, but if that was the only complaint...well sign me up for a deere...(with pilot controls):cool2:

qps
08-16-2007, 10:37 AM
Too bad it was a lousy demo. I'm curious what people will think of the T320.

I'm still waiting for some engineer to reply to why other companies can't design in the push power of a Deere... I suppose I'll have to ask them directly. :(


Salesman offered to bring a 320 if I liked the 300 enough to put bobcat in the running, my thought was he should have brought it from the get go if he wanted to be in the running, so that tells me the 320 must not offer much more than the 300. I don't see a bobcat in my future.....

qps
08-16-2007, 02:49 PM
Put a few more hours on it today, stalled it four or five times. something about the position of the seat makes my legs hurt....strains to turn and whines really bad....not the machine for me.....

NHMan
08-16-2007, 07:35 PM
I heard today they temperarly halted production of the 320. I am sure its over something minor, but does anyone have the skinny?

Tigerotor77W
08-16-2007, 08:37 PM
No -- wonder if it's something Doosan didn't want to commit to at this point?

Other than that, my speculation is that they're still working on the UC.

Frankly, I have no idea. Bobcat does a great job at keeping news silent.

crab
08-16-2007, 09:03 PM
qps ,i love my 332 but before you buy make sure the rear loader arm hoses have chafe guard,and be warned the fuel tank has insufficient baffling i don't let mine get below a quarter on any kind of incline[its true tiger everthing has its flaws!]

qps
08-16-2007, 09:07 PM
qps ,i love my 332 but before you buy make sure the rear loader arm hoses have chafe guard,and be warned the fuel tank has insufficient baffling i don't let mine get below a quarter on any kind of incline[its true tiger everthing has its flaws!]


I won't be buying the deere, I'm just not comfortable with the hand controls, my 257B has simialr fuel system issues, with the price that cat has given me on a 297C its become cheaper to buy the cat...if you can believe that:dizzy: they really don't want to lose a cat customer to deere...it may help that over the past 4-5 years I've probably spent 150-200K in lawn and excavating equipment at this dealer....

cat2
08-16-2007, 09:10 PM
So what are you saying, your going with cat????

crab
08-16-2007, 09:15 PM
thats great,i don't like pilots so that wasn't a issue for me,i could be wrong but i didn't see you're take on the cat?and i would like to here as i haven't had the opportunity to run one yet[bobcats king around here]good luck and if you don't mind ballpark price.:cry:

qps
08-16-2007, 09:46 PM
thats great,i don't like pilots so that wasn't a issue for me,i could be wrong but i dun't see you're take on the cat?and i would like to here as i haven't had the opportunity to run one yet[bobcats king around here]good luck and if you don't mind ballpark price.:cry:


Pilots are ISO so I think there here to stay, I have another thread on just the C series...if I could get pilot controls in a deere I would have strongly considered changing, but with the service I get from CAT along with the pricing we negotiated down to...it's a no brainier.....I would have liked to try the CASE machine but out local dealer and I don't see eye to eye (read, trying to tear your head off in a deal)...to answer your question we have come to terms on a 297C but I want to demo it again as the others performance is still fresh in my mind....then I'll sign if all is well.....

ksss
08-16-2007, 09:50 PM
qps,
Are you getting it fully loaded? That will be a trailer full between the 304 and a 297. At least all the colors will match. Once you start looking at new iron it can be hard to go back and sit your own. These OEMs are making such rapid improvements that just trading up a couple of years can buy you a considerable amount productivity, not to mention comfort.

qps
08-16-2007, 10:01 PM
qps,
Are you getting it fully loaded? That will be a trailer full between the 304 and a 297. At least all the colors will match. Once you start looking at new iron it can be hard to go back and sit your own. These OEMs are making such rapid improvements that just trading up a couple of years can buy you a considerable amount productivity, not to mention comfort.


Yes...every option even the patten changer from ISO to CASE...(so if I have deere flashbacks) they quoted me a price and gave me a trade that's hard to pass up....wish I had the gonads to call CASE and get one of there machines out to demo...I forgot another thing they did that pi$$ me off, when I was demoing the mini's they where the only one that insisted on a credit app. first....after checking my credit score...they were tripping over themselves to sell me something....anything you want Mr. Tim..:laugh: don't have any money...just good credit:cool2:

ksss
08-16-2007, 10:11 PM
Well your CASE dealer made that bed now they get to sleep in it. When does your 297 come back out? I am anxious to hear how it compares to the 332. What kind of work do you have in mind for the 297? You certainly will be able to step up into some larger jobs with that machine and your mini ex. Having a large skid steer can open alot of doors, The increase in ability is huge in my opinion. You will drink more fuel but the increase in productivy makes it worth it.

qps
08-16-2007, 10:19 PM
Well your CASE dealer made that bed now they get to sleep in it. When does your 297 come back out? I am anxious to hear how it compares to the 332. What kind of work do you have in mind for the 297? You certainly will be able to step up into some larger jobs with that machine and your mini ex. Having a large skid steer can open alot of doors, The increase in ability is huge in my opinion. You will drink more fuel but the increase in productivy makes it worth it.

the unit they have to demo is getting passed around alot, they've already sold two 297's and one 287, they said sometime next week, I replied..no signing until after second work out.....I would like to get into more demo and site prep, I find this type of work satisfying, we also install some culvert pipe from time to time, last week I layed 70 ft of 15" culvert pipe, if I could line two or three of those up a week I'd retire from the lawn business...you mentioned a full trailer....that's a problem, I need a different setup to haul it all...I don't want a fifth wheel, do you think a F550 would pull it all on a tag trailer??? guess I would need a 12 ton minimum.

ksss
08-16-2007, 10:42 PM
Well I am not sure what the weight of those two are but I am guessing average about 10 or 11K a piece. Thats a lot of weight on a pintle hitch. You could you easily end with about 27,000 pounds plus of equipment and trailer behind you. That is too much to put behind a 550. I cant put my TK on a 31' gooseneck along with my 465, I can pull the TK and the 440 on the same trailer. With the 465 that is 22K in equipment plus the weight of the trailer. You would not be much different although a gooseneck would allow more capacity. You would have to step up to 650 or 750 IMHO. The best set would be a paver type trailer pulled behind a dump truck, or lowboy set up. PINA compared to what your used to but then you would have room for attachments. The only choice then is to pull them individually. Some times when working in town that is better as it is easier to find two parking spots that are 30' than it is to find one that 75 feet long.

qps
08-16-2007, 10:50 PM
Well I am not sure what the weight of those two are but I am guessing average about 10 or 11K a piece. Thats a lot of weight on a pintle hitch. You could you easily end with about 27,000 pounds plus of equipment and trailer behind you. That is too much to put behind a 550. I cant put my TK on a 31' gooseneck along with my 465, I can pull the TK and the 440 on the same trailer. With the 465 that is 22K in equipment plus the weight of the trailer. You would not be much different although a gooseneck would allow more capacity. You would have to step up to 650 or 750 IMHO. The best set would be a paver type trailer pulled behind a dump truck, or lowboy set up. PINA compared to what your used to but then you would have room for attachments. The only choice then is to pull them individually. Some times when working in town that is better as it is easier to find two parking spots that are 30' than it is to find one that 75 feet long.


That's kind of what I was thinking.....guess I'll two trip it for awhile:laugh: your dead on the weight..around 10.5 on the mini and 10K on the 297...

gammon landscaping
08-17-2007, 01:27 AM
lot of weight on a pintle? we have a 20 ton tilt trailer that is a pintle. if i were you i would try to find a single axel road tractor that was used to pull doubles. they tend to have larger motors and the short length makes it easy to get around, and put a 12 foot dump on it, with 13 or longer you have to pay fet

ksss
08-17-2007, 07:51 AM
I did not mean that you could not have a pintle carry that kind of weight. Only that putting a pintle hitch to a 550 and carry that kind of weight would not work. I carry my 160 around on a pintle hitch behind my dump truck.

qps
08-17-2007, 09:53 PM
Here's some pic's of the bobcat...like no ones ever seen one:laugh:

Scag48
08-18-2007, 04:23 AM
The T300 looks awfully topheavy.

ksss
08-18-2007, 01:20 PM
I think Doosan/Bobcat is going to have to really spend some money and time on their machines. IMHO they are at a critical point. It would be interesting how many head to head comparisions that they are losing everyday. The dedicated BC guy will likely continue to buy BC because they are certainly competent. However, when put head to head against other machines with noncolor biased owners/operators I wonder how many of those result in a BC purchase.

The BC control system is a problem for a lot of guys. As far as the whine, that has been BC for as long as I have been around. I find it most annoying. The pitch of the whine drives me crazy.

BC is still the industry leader (for now) they need to put out a machine that is worthy of the title.

My predictions are this. Given that the construction industry does not take a complete nose dive, I predict BC will no longer be the number one selling machine in NA by 2011ish. The days of one OEM dominating the market will be over. Actually I believe it already is over its just that BC had such a large marketshare it will take time for that to erode. Unless they get their poop in a pile, they will continue their slow slip downward.

Sorry for the digression of the thread.

Construct'O
08-18-2007, 08:41 PM
It's like any business you can't be "King of the Hill " !!!!!!! for ever.If nothing else the health or age factor will get you!

qps
08-18-2007, 10:26 PM
After running it a few more hours I honestly say unless the 320 is head over heels improved from the 300 I could never own one, lack of power and noisy, tipsy and there something about the seat...the way it's postioned...makes my legs hurt...the cab seems big enough. At 6'2" I fit in it fine...don't know what it is....the deere was much smoother and responsive, nothing yet has put the power to the dirt like the deere. :cool2:

cat2
08-19-2007, 12:43 PM
You need to get the Deere. Go to your dealer and see if they will drop the price a little. Trust me you will be happy with the Deere

qps
08-19-2007, 01:09 PM
You need to get the Deere. Go to your dealer and see if they will drop the price a little. Trust me you will be happy with the Deere

I have no doubt I woudl like it...if it had pilots....I would probably own it.....

Fieldman12
08-19-2007, 02:48 PM
Bobcat's days of being number one in skid sales is numbered. I think Deere and Cat are going to take it from them. I think Case has been eating at them also but for some reason (at least here) Case does not push there machines. I think Case needs a swift kick in the butt for this because I feel there could be allot more machines of theres out there if they tried a little harder. For one they hardly ever have any machines on the lots.

qps
08-19-2007, 02:54 PM
Bobcat's days of being number one in skid sales is numbered. I think Deere and Cat are going to take it from them. I think Case has been eating at them also but for some reason (at least here) Case does not push there machines. I think Case needs a swift kick in the butt for this because I feel there could be allot more machines of theres out there if they tried a little harder. For one they hardly ever have any machines on the lots.


I agree....there machines shows me nothing. I would like to have tried a case and they have earned a place at the top, however that is a luxury I cannot indulge myself as dealer support (trust) is questionable to say the least...

ksss
08-19-2007, 06:43 PM
There is some truth to that. A lot of Ag dealers have an Ag type mentality. If you want one there you go. However if I can sell you a Magnum or Steiger I would much rather do that. The dealers that have the full line CASE construction do a lot better. Mostly because they know how to sell construction. CASE skid steers are big here because the dealer does a decent job pushing them. Some of these salesman are not that familiar with construction equipment of any kind and that hurts them.

ksss
08-19-2007, 06:47 PM
On paper the 332 and 450CT should be very close. The higher torque rating for the CASE should favor it but who knows I have never run either one. The 440 CT is selling well here (for a tracked machine). The dealer has yet to order in a 450CT. I would like to run one.

Fieldman12
08-19-2007, 09:05 PM
I went to a Deere dealership in Findlay Ohio yesterday morning. There was allot of farmers there before the pulls. They had allot of the new Deere skid/CTL machines on the lot along with several mini excavators, mini TLB's and mini wheel loaders.I went in the dealership and found a sales areas specifically for just the Deere CTL/skid steers,small TLB's,mini excavators, and mini wheel loaders. As I stated the area was all geared toward the Construction side of things. I like that we are seeing more and more Construction stuff at the AG dealerships. Could eventually down the road we see AG dealerships and Construction dealerships combined? If so, I thing this could greatly increase there market share. I see Caterpillar doing the same thing at the Ohio Cat store. I went to a New Holland dealership that butted up to the side of the Deere dealership and there was hardly anyone there. They sold both the New Holland and Bobcat brand skid steer machines/excavators. I was a little surprised no one was there. I think deere could be onto a good marketing thing. Sorry about the other post.Accidentally hit the enter key.

MOREDIRT
08-19-2007, 09:37 PM
Have the CAT dealer price you a replacement undercarriage and then price the DEERE the CAT is much more fragile and you can get after market tracks for the DEERE. I have demoed all of the same machines and If you want to get the work done get the DEERE if you want to look pretty and have that big cat sticker buy the CAT but last time I checked pilots and a pressurized cab didn't move the dirt. But maybe you can explain to you customers that the reason you need to charge 20 more an hour than the next guy is that you needed that CAT sticker and you needed that pressurized cab and pilots to get the job done.

Digdeep
08-19-2007, 10:08 PM
wlcome to the forum MOREDIRT. Excellent first post. I think that qps already stated that since the Deere didn't have pilot controls, and I think he's had shoulder surgery, and due to that fact the pilots were better suited for him. I think $20 more an hour could be pushing it just a "wee bit". I can't speak for any CAT 297C owners here in my neck of the woods, but there are quite a few ASV SR80 owners that have the same undercarriage that the 297C has, and they seem to be pretty happy with the life of the undercarriage so far. At least the ones I've spoken to. I'm pretty sure that the metal face seals and the more open undercarriage have improved the operataing cost. I have over 1,500 hours on my RC50 (original tracks and only 4 wheels replaced) and I'm pretty sure that I'm under $20 more an hour than the Deere machines so far, but time will tell.

qps
08-19-2007, 10:35 PM
Welcome to the forum. so you've already tried a 297C, what did you think???
also I'm surprised that CAT already has the pricing available for undercarriage replacement parts...as far as ASV sytems no one will argue there poor design, however if the truth be told I would venture to say that most failures are due to using a tracked machine in tire machine applications day in and day out, you can't be an asphalt contractor with a track machine IMHO...If deere had the pilot controls I would have taken a very hard look at changing brands, I'm not brand loyal to the point of making a bad purchase. Service is another and probably the biggest decesion on staying with CAT...Oh yeah, CAT's price with the higher trade in value was LOWER than the deere...not
20K higher......

MOREDIRT
08-19-2007, 11:37 PM
so you are going to have a 50 grand machine that you have to tip toe around with cuz you are scared to abuse the undercarriage that is crazy the undercarriage is made to be used and wore out to get the work done so it is not about which one is better it is about how much it cost to replace it cuz they all are going to wear out. A track machine is more productive than a wheeled machine in almost every job you put it in they lift more push more dig faster grade better have less psi the list goes on and on but they cost more to operate it's the cat is like having a wheeled skid steer that takes a special brand of tire that cost thousands more than the next machine would u buy it because it is more comfortable to drive?

ksss
08-19-2007, 11:40 PM
wlcome to the forum MOREDIRT. Excellent first post.

You might want lurk here for a while or read what has already been posted before getting diarrhea of the finger tips. Or not, it is the internet I guess. The CAT undercarriage issues has been rode hard and put away very wet. Everyone here that has been posting here for at least a year has atleast read if not taken part in volumes of threads concerning the undercarriages of the suspended machines. The case of qps, he already has a 257 so he is a current owner of a CAT tracked machine and well aware of its postive and negative aspects. If anyone is going to piss him off it will be me. Now I have to try and top your BS comments.

Digdeep
08-20-2007, 12:29 AM
MOREDIRT, sorry for the sarcastic "Excellent first post", I'm pretty sure that nobody wants to start a flame war with you, but ksss is right that the topic of the ASV/CAT undercariage has been covered extensively for some time, at least since I've been visiting this site since 2005, and probably before that as well. We all have the equippment that we own based on our experiences with performance, cost, dealer support etc. As you can see, I own a Bobcat S220 (fuel thirsty SOB that she is), and an ASV RC50, but I'm just as quick to wish someone the best of luck if they own a CASE, JD, NH, etc. To each his own. If someone asks for opinions or experiences, most people here will quickly offer theirs up, and wish them the best without coming across as critical or negative. We'd all enjoy hearing about your experiences with equipment, and I'm sure that you have lots to share. So, once again, welcome to the forum.

MOREDIRT
08-20-2007, 12:45 AM
lol i have read tons of post on the subject and I have read many of your post ksss and I think you are one of the most knowledgeable members on this forum when it comes to skid steers and light excavation but it is just sad how everyone jumps on the cat band wagon if you took a bobcat and painted up with the cat colors and called it a cat it would be a world beater just like everything else cat produces :laugh: I am not bashing cat they make great equipment just not great ctls.

Construct'O
08-20-2007, 12:46 AM
*trucewhiteflag* Isn't this where the "Group hug comes in?"

RockSet N' Grade
08-20-2007, 07:55 AM
SheShovel........where are you? Group hug time...........

qps
08-20-2007, 07:59 AM
lol i have read tons of post on the subject and I have read many of your post ksss and I think you are one of the most knowledgeable members on this forum when it comes to skid steers and light excavation but it is just sad how everyone jumps on the cat band wagon if you took a bobcat and painted up with the cat colors and called it a cat it would be a world beater just like everything else cat produces :laugh: I am not bashing cat they make great equipment just not great ctls.

You could paint a bobcat any color you wanted and it wouldn't beat anything, if you would go back and read my post on all the demo's I hope I was fair with all brands, I didn't try all, but the deere was the most impressive on pushing and lifting, the new cat undercarraige looks to be improved from the old, to claim its a POS is alittle premature.

qps
08-20-2007, 08:07 AM
lol i have read tons of post on the subject and I have read many of your post ksss and I think you are one of the most knowledgeable members on this forum when it comes to skid steers and light excavation but it is just sad how everyone jumps on the cat band wagon if you took a bobcat and painted up with the cat colors and called it a cat it would be a world beater just like everything else cat produces :laugh: I am not bashing cat they make great equipment just not great ctls.

You didn't answer....have you tried the 297C??? I agree with your statement about KSSS...he stands by his CASE machines, has a good dealer support, and yields from the great state that invented the T.V.:laugh:

RockSet N' Grade
08-20-2007, 08:10 AM
Here's a brain twister for ya MoreDirt.......I just bought a wheeled machine and wrote a check for $8,300 the other day and put VTS track system on it. The reason was primarily that I am older than most here, and just wanted a more comfortable ride so I could walk and use my arms at the end of the day when I was done. My machine (Gehl 5640) is loaded with cab,pilots,stereo, and every option available.......it didn't have so much to do with price and pushing dirt as it had to do with me being comfortable and taking care of a dwindling asset......me.

qps
08-20-2007, 08:14 AM
Here's a brain twister for ya MoreDirt.......I just bought a wheeled machine and wrote a check for $8,300 the other day and put VTS track system on it. The reason was primarily that I am older than most here, and just wanted a more comfortable ride so I could walk and use my arms at the end of the day when I was done. My machine (Gehl 5640) is loaded with cab,pilots,stereo, and every option available.......it didn't have so much to do with price and pushing dirt as it had to do with me being comfortable and taking care of a dwindling asset......me.


dwindling asset.....:laugh: I feel you pain brother....I'm getting a/c this go around.....

MOREDIRT
08-20-2007, 11:08 AM
I agree i have the cab and ac on my machines every company is different if i was working mostly on turf i would have a cat or asv and yes i have tried one not much more power than the 287b imo but the cab is first class

qps
08-20-2007, 11:19 AM
I agree i have the cab and ac on my machines every company is different if i was working mostly on turf i would have a cat or asv and yes i have tried one not much more power than the 287b imo but the cab is first class

287B....that's not encouraging..but going from a 257B that was a POS, anything is a step up...

Tigerotor77W
08-20-2007, 12:18 PM
You might want lurk here for a while or read what has already been posted before getting diarrhea of the finger tips. Or not, it is the internet I guess. The CAT undercarriage issues has been rode hard and put away very wet. Everyone here that has been posting here for at least a year has atleast read if not taken part in volumes of threads concerning the undercarriages of the suspended machines. The case of qps, he already has a 257 so he is a current owner of a CAT tracked machine and well aware of its postive and negative aspects. If anyone is going to piss him off it will be me. Now I have to try and top your BS comments.

Didja quote the wrong guy, Kaiser, in your original post to MOREDIRT?

But I'm glad this issue was resolved -- and am grinning even more because I wasn't involved... for once... *phew*

MOREDIRT
08-20-2007, 01:11 PM
The 257B CAT left me for 2 weeks gave me a very bad opinion of CAT ctls I agree it is a POS. When I told CAT I needed the machine that compaired to the DEERE CT322 they brought me a 287B and the quote they left me was almost twice the deere. Then I called them and told them the machine was way too big and told them to bring the 257B and they were reluctant and now I know why. This was last year and we bought the CT322 this year we purchased a large frame machine and demoed all of them including the 297C and we bought the CT332. If you could put the CAT cab and pilots on the DEERE it would be an amazing machine. And that is what DEERE is promising for next year.

Scag48
08-20-2007, 01:59 PM
When I told CAT I needed the machine that compaired to the DEERE CT322 they brought me a 287B and the quote they left me was almost twice the deere.

Well duh, I hope the price was more, a 287B is a big boy! I don't know what you guys are pyaing for Cat stuff but our 277B with MA11 package (basically everything except high-flow) and a 78" combo bucket was $51K before tax.

For the record, the 257A/B was a pile, but that's the only junk machine they produced. Not enough power, fuel pump issues, I've heard of injector problems, just a mess. 257 was just a pile machine no two ways about it. Everything else in Cat's MTL line, however, didn't have such issues.

qps
08-20-2007, 03:24 PM
Well duh, I hope the price was more, a 287B is a big boy! I don't know what you guys are pyaing for Cat stuff but our 277B with MA11 package (basically everything except high-flow) and a 78" combo bucket was $51K before tax.

For the record, the 257A/B was a pile, but that's the only junk machine they produced. Not enough power, fuel pump issues, I've heard of injector problems, just a mess. 257 was just a pile machine no two ways about it. Everything else in Cat's MTL line, however, didn't have such issues.

I believe I got a decent deal on a 297C, more machine than I need now but...what the heck....maybe open some doors....

Scag48
08-20-2007, 03:58 PM
You know what, when you're writin' the checks, might as well buy what you want, right? We need pics when that thing comes in! Hopefully it won't get lost at sea for months like the 304...

qps
08-20-2007, 04:15 PM
You know what, when you're writin' the checks, might as well buy what you want, right? We need pics when that thing comes in! Hopefully it won't get lost at sea for months like the 304...

You had to remind me of that:laugh: at least the skidsteers are made in the U.S... I think cat dug alittle deeper because of the problem with the mini and the lame 257B....

Scag48
08-20-2007, 08:15 PM
It would be stupid for you to buy anything other than Cat, especially if the price is on par with everyone else. You're building a relationship with a dealer, things will only get cheaper for you. By the time we got around to our 277B, we had already bought $200K of equipment from our local Cat dealer. The dealin' is easy when you get enough under your belt.

ksss
08-20-2007, 08:27 PM
It would be stupid for you to buy anything other than Cat, especially if the price is on par with everyone else. You're building a relationship with a dealer, things will only get cheaper for you. By the time we got around to our 277B, we had already bought $200K of equipment from our local Cat dealer. The dealin' is easy when you get enough under your belt.

There is a lot of truth to that statement especially the last sentence. I have been buying machines from the same dealer since the mid 90's and it pays to have a good working relationship with a dealer. The downside is putting all your eggs in one basket. I have not had it bite me but there are some CAT guys here that have since diversified their fleet. I think it was deserved based on the customers side of the story.

dozerman21
08-20-2007, 08:54 PM
There is a lot of truth to that statement especially the last sentence. I have been buying machines from the same dealer since the mid 90's and it pays to have a good working relationship with a dealer. The downside is putting all your eggs in one basket. I have not had it bite me but there are some CAT guys here that have since diversified their fleet. I think it was deserved based on the customers side of the story.

You're right, it can save you time and hassle if you can trust your dealer to be fair. However, it can also go the other way just as easy. If a dealer knows that you want to stay with the brand that they sell, you can get screwed over on the price of a new machine or trade in value for yours. It doesn't matter what color the iron is, it comes down to that specific dealership.

It sounds like KSSS has been treated well/fair by his Case dealer. I've had trouble in the past with my Case dealer, and am strongly considering a Deere for my next dozer if I buy new. Our Case salesman moved to Michigan and we stayed with him until he retired, if that tells you anything. Too bad my Deere Ag dealer that I bought my CTL off of doesn't sell heavy equipment. I think my Case dealer is working having better relationships with its customers by bringing in new faces, but they have some bridges to fix.

Even in QPS's case, the first price they gave him on the 297C was much higher than the rest. I'm guessing he let them know he was trying some demos, and that the Deere was impressive.:) His Cat dealer has a good reputation around here for taking good care of its customers in the small equipment line. The heavy line is another story...:rolleyes:

ksss
08-20-2007, 09:02 PM
I almost always price shop my new skid steers before buying. I have yet to get a quote lower than the one from my dealer. I did have the issue with the TK, but that was Corporate not the dealer. Like Dozerman says trust is good, blind trust is foolish.

Fieldman12
08-20-2007, 09:38 PM
I always shop around a little. I know the local Deere dealer as he started farming some of our land. The Case IH owner/dealer I know some from the tractor pulls and living in the area. He also farms a good bit of ground and has moved our way. A close friend of mine works for him on the farm and keeps trying to get us to rent to him all of ours. Most of the time it is best to deal with your local dealer but as others stated dont forget to price around a little just to make sure they are in line. They can do you favors if you have a good relationship.

Scag48
08-21-2007, 01:36 AM
Agreed. If you don't at least test the market a little and get a couple quotes from someone else first, how do you know where you stand with your dealer? Your first couple pieces may be a good deal, but after a while they make take your patronage for granted and assume you're not paying attention. How long would that go on before you realize you're throwing a little money away? Years? I hope not. I have recieved quotes on all of our equipment from another dealer with the exception of our 277B, I knew what they're worth elsewhere and I didn't think it was too far off at all.

qps
08-21-2007, 08:07 AM
Dozerman, are we talking about our local CASE dealer, if so I had some issue with them also last year....not good.....

dozerman21
08-21-2007, 09:04 AM
Dozerman, are we talking about our local CASE dealer, if so I had some issue with them also last year....not good.....

Yep. I read about your deal with the TK. When I traded in for my current dozer 6 years ago, we went round and round about what my last machine's trade in value should be. It was a very clean, lower hour, and well maintanened machine that only I had ran. They knew all that too. I definetly wanted a Case again and they knew that, but we were 5K-7K off for what my machine was worth. I ended up biting the bullet and accepting their offer because I didn't want to buy tracks for my machine. Less than a month later I talked to the guy who bought my trade in, and he paid 10K more than what I received for trade in!:hammerhead: I know they have to make money too, but that's BS, and it left a bad taste in my mouth. It's a big reason why I haven't traded in for a new one, and might even buy a low hour used dozer.

Their service has been great, and they've had a lot of change over the last few years that I think has them pointed in the right direction. The new sales guy for our area seems pretty descent. He's been with the company in Fort Wayne for a long time. Bad thing, he's my 3rd salesman in for years. It's kinda hard to build trust with that kind of turnover, but they definetly needed it. We'll see...

Fieldman12
08-21-2007, 05:22 PM
That stinks that you have had that many different salesman. The thing is even though you have bough equipment there in the past he probably could care less because he did not see any of the money. You could always go to another Case dealer but I have no idea how far they are from ya. Don't forget to use well I will go with a Cat, Deere, or even a Komatsu machine if you have too on them.

qps
08-21-2007, 06:46 PM
The bobcat salesman picked up the T300 today and we discussed any improvements on the 320, he was honest in its description of alittle more power but that was about it....very nice and honest salesman...I like em..would buy from him in the future with no worries....